Hi Alberto G. Corona  

I have no problem with natural selection, it is a reasonable hypothesis. 
But natural selection implies some form of intelligence, which materialism 
cannot explain. 



[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 
1/7/2013  
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen 
----- Receiving the following content -----  
From: Alberto G. Corona  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2013-01-07, 07:05:29 
Subject: Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so. 


it is perfectly possible to accept natural selection with all the implication 
in genetics without being a materialist. 


The materialism is a superfluous ideological substrate. ?heldrake is right 
about this critic of materialism. I? not materialist, and I accept Natural 
selection. ?aterialism is the logical consequence of the distrust of the human 
intellect that was Nominalism. This distrust ?ondemned to?n-existence any inner 
knowledge and ?eified only what produced effect that other can observe in the 
short term (complex and long term effects were disqualified because they where 
not so easily observable). So material is anything experimental, that is 
anything that is enough simple and enough?mmediate?o be observable by many. 
This excludes long term, complex knowledge imprinted in the mind innately?r 
culturally by natural or social selection. Then the common sense, the human 
aspirations, motivations and beliefs, are condemned to subjectivity, and 
rejected as object of study, only as matter of belief for the believers or a 
matter of engineering for the nonbelievers. 
?? not being materialist besides I accept natural Selection. NS is not an ?gent 
of causation on the deep. neither matter is. Matter is ??ubstrate. It is? the 
sensible part that we perceive. this perception is composed by the mind, from 
the input of the anthropically selected mathematical reality. 


Natural selection only happens ?or beings living in time like us. From a 
timeless view, from above, the universe has spacetime locations where there is 
no dynamic of selection. There are only existence and inexistence. there are 
good spacetime trajectories that diverge and flourish and bad ones that are 
death paths. ?hese paths have precise physiological and social laws in the same 
whay that they have phisical laws, that are derived from ?he mathematical 
structure of reality that indeed IMHO are a consequence of the antrophic 
principle of existence of the mind.? 


It seems that the mind is computation, but the physical substrate, which is 
ultimately?athematical, only?eflect this computation as well as the mind, but 
matter, being a product of the mind, can?not ?e?the causation of the mind. 


As a product of the mind, ?atter is a proxy for the study of the mind. trough 
natural selection.. Because NS is how we, as temporal beings perceive the very 
long term coherence between the mind and the anthropicallly selected 
mathematical reality 





2013/1/6 Platonist Guitar Cowboy  




On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Roger Clough  wrote: 

Hi Platonist Guitar Cowboy 
? 
You've obviously never watched one of Sheldrake's 
lectures.  

Watched, listened, and even read some things a few years back. I sincerely 
tried to open my mind, but when I realized I was forcing that, instead of doing 
my homework, I dropped him. Doesn't mean he hasn't changed, but what you posted 
sounds like the old song. Maybe my prejudice.  
? 
All of his speculations are supported with  
empirical data. You'll find some of it on his website, 
others in his books and lectures.  


Aware of that. 
? 
I?atched the first hour of McKenna's lecture as given below,  
It was essentially a promo for taking drugs, and it showed no data, 
so finding him distasteful after watching for an hour, I gave up. 
? 

May I ask what approximate criteria you associate with taste in this case?  

? 
So where's all of McKenna's data? 

He never pretended to have any. He's self-avowed fool: "the object of this talk 
is that you never have to hear this sort of thing again in your life; you can 
put that behind you" paraphrased from video. 
? 
I think he died about a decade ago 
of some brain problem (could it have been from taking drugs?). 

Begging. 
? 
His brother became a drug addict also, don't know what happened to him. 
? 


Same again, which seems to indicate you don't really care. Otherwise one google 
search and click would've wikied you this on a silver plate: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_McKenna 
PGC  



[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]  
1/5/2013  

"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen  
----- Receiving the following content -----  

From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2013-01-05, 07:15:28  

Subject: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so.  



Hi Everythingsters,  

When things get a little fringe, I want the best bang for my buck (time 
reading/listening in this case). Here Sheldrake only delivers when held in 
check by McKenna and Abraham, even if not stunning.  



On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Roger Clough wrote:  



Terence McKenna, Rupert Sheldrake, Ralph Abraham - Metamorphosis  

by loadedshaman?1 year ago?15,768 views  

Terence McKenna, Rupert Sheldrake, Ralph Abraham - "Metamorphosis" (1995)  

1:05:49  


Otherwise, I find Sheldrake rather a sleeping pill. If we're gonna step into 
areas of wild speculation, then I want the writer/speaker to go as far as they 
can, instead of charting out curiosities as cracks in the sciences.  

Thus I simply prefer McKenna as wild speculator, as he at least leaves a trail 
for 1p to convince themselves of the trajectory of his speculation. So 1p can 
do some things to verify to a certain extent the wild propositions, and perhaps 
one day to lay things out more formally.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgQfC4WRg-g  

With Sheldrake, you're sort of just left with the speculation, and there's no 
harness whatsoever, which is why I fall asleep so quickly.  
PGC  


?  



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