Re: Turing Machines Have no Real Time Clock (Was The Game of Life)
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > Turing Machines have no real time clock ... > > > > If we assume the comp hypothesis > > > > (purely based on Turing machines) and the > > > > anthropic principle, then the flow of > > > > consciousness can only be > > > > constrained by the logical nature of the links > > > > pernitting transitions from one observer > > > > moment to the next. Time therefore is an > > > > illusion derived from such a logical flow. > Please!!! Of course Turing Machines have clocks > [...] But they don't have REAL TIME > CLOCKS, Jacques You know the kind that tells > computers the time of day and the date... OK, so you admit time is real but unknown. I guess your "illusion" claim was due to schitzophrenia on your part. = - - - - - - - Jacques Mallah ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Physicist / Many Worlder / Devil's Advocate "I know what no one else knows" - 'Runaway Train', Soul Asylum My URL: http://hammer.prohosting.com/~mathmind/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/
Re: Turing Machines Have no Real Time Clock (Was The Game of Life)
In a message dated 05/21/2000 3:21:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Turing Machines have no real time clock and no > > > interrupt. If we assume the comp hypothesis > > > (purely based on Turing machines) and the > anthropic > > > principle, then the flow of consciousness can only > > > be constrained by the logical nature of the links > > > pernitting transitions from one observer moment > > > to the next. Time therefore is an illusion derived > > > from such a logical flow. > > I just noticed this claim that TMs are not > clocked, and as far as I could tell it is self > evidently false, so I don't see how someone could make > it. The very definition of a TM involves actions of > the head at each clock step. Please!!! Of course Turing Machines have clocks They perform their operations sequentially and need a "clock signal" to move from one step to the next. The duration between the clock pulses can vary and can be entirely arbitrary, one picosecond or ten milleniums. But they don't have REAL TIME CLOCKS, Jacques You know the kind that tells computers the time of day and the date... And of course they also don't have interrupts! George
Re: Turing Machines Have no Real Time Clock (Was The Game of Life)
Hal Finney writes: > Russell Standish, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, writes: > > Why do you think the only possibilities are that the universe is > > either discrete or continuous? For example, the space Q^4 (4-D space > > built from rational numbers) is neither. > > Rational numbers are continuous, by the typical definition. Between > any two rational numbers there is another (and therefore, an infinite > number of others). Hunh? This is certainly true, but on the other hand between any two rational numbers there are also an infinite number of irrationals. But even if this were not the case, the fact that any two rationals have other rationals in between would not make Hal's claim of continuity true; rather it would prove the opposite, discontinuity. Seems to me we have here a demonstration that, as in physical reality, continuity cannot exist. What could it possibly mean? -dlj.
Re: Turing Machines Have no Real Time Clock (Was The Game of Life)
In a message dated 01/14/2000 1:48:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Your first sentence is complete codswallop, and your second sentence > is bizarre. Prove it! > > > > > In a message dated 01/13/2000 5:58:18 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > > Who say's the world is quantized? > > > > If the world was not quantized the comp hypothesis would not hold. In fact, > > > It would be impossible for physical constants to have any definite value, > > since there would not be any reference to anchor them with. > > > > George Levy > > > > > > I looked up codswallop in the dictionnary and I was very surprised to find that it is a recent British word coined around 1963. It means "nonsense." OK. This is your opinion. First sentence: The comp hypothesis depends on Turing Machines which are inherently discrete. A continuous universe would not by emulable by a Turing Machine. Read Bruno's latest post. He has a much better grasp of this issue then me. Second sentence: To prove that if physical constants are to take any definite value, the universe must be quantized. Let us say that there exist a TOE based on one single physical constant X (for example Planck's constant). Without loss of generality, we can say that the value of X is 1, since there is no other constant to compare it to. Assuming that a Turing machine is used to apply this TOE to solve poblem and calculate any quantity in the world then any quantitiy derived from this TOE would have to belong to the set of integers -- including space time and energy. We can extend this reasonning to TOE's that include n arbitrary physical constants. George Levy
Re: Turing Machines Have no Real Time Clock (Was The Game of Life)
Your first sentence is complete codswallop, and your second sentence is bizarre. Prove it! > > In a message dated 01/13/2000 5:58:18 PM Pacific Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > Who say's the world is quantized? > > If the world was not quantized the comp hypothesis would not hold. In fact, > It would be impossible for physical constants to have any definite value, > since there would not be any reference to anchor them with. > > George Levy > > Dr. Russell StandishDirector High Performance Computing Support Unit, University of NSW Phone 9385 6967 Sydney 2052 Fax 9385 6965 Australia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Room 2075, Red Centre http://parallel.hpc.unsw.edu.au/rks
Re: Turing Machines Have no Real Time Clock (Was The Game of Life)
In a message dated 01/13/2000 5:58:18 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Who say's the world is quantized? If the world was not quantized the comp hypothesis would not hold. In fact, It would be impossible for physical constants to have any definite value, since there would not be any reference to anchor them with. George Levy
Turing Machines Have no Real Time Clock (Was The Game of Life)
Turing Machines have no real time clock and no interrupt. If we assume the comp hypothesis (purely based on Turing machines) and the anthropic principle, then the flow of consciousness can only be constrained by the logical nature of the links pernitting transitions from one observer moment to the next. Time therefore is an illusion derived from such a logical flow. Having said that, I am puzzled by the fundamental quantization of the world and the constancy of Planck's constant everywhere and at all time. To achieve such a universal "clock" we could assume: 1) either that at the heart of the comp hypothesis there exist a large number of Turing machines all requiring a real time clock responsible for this quantization. This implies a weakening of comp and the assumption that time is real. I do not favor this explanation. 2) or that all events in our universe share the same (identical) mechanism for transition from observer moment to the next. In other words we all realized (or simulated) by the same Turing machine (or otherwise equivalent CPU). All physical time intervals are defined according to the cycle time/interval of this single machine which is generating not just our universe, but our Multiverse (all the universes accessible through QM. ) This cycle time corresponds to Planck constant which is absolute in the sense that it defines our own frame of reference. So, (relatively speaking,) from our point of view it appears to be absolute. From the point of view of an observer outside our Multiverse, its actual value could be very small or very large. BTW, the existence of the same types of particles (electrons, photons...) across the Multiverse indicate the existence of a common implementation that goes beyond just a common Turing machine cycle time. In other words, some of the basic software across the Multiverse is also identical. i.e., the basic driver software Version 1.0 for electrons is identical across the Multiverse. This lead to the possibility that the QM Multiverse < the Plenitude George Levy
