Re: Materialism can never explain consciousness or perception properly, because:
On 04 May 2013, at 19:45, John Clark wrote: On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 7:16 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Materialism can never explain consciousness or perception properly, because: Neither materialism nor non-materialism can explain consciousness if it's fundamental because being fundamental means explanations come to a end. But is consciousness fundamental? With the comp hypothesis consciousness is not so difficult to explain, as it is appears to come from an instinctive act of faith in at least one reality, and that reality emerges from the way a machine or a relative number can refer to itself and discover a true semantical fixed point in his computational histories. Then consciousness get an important role, as this semantical fixed point gives to the machine a way to infinitely (in principle) accelerate itself relatively to its most probable neighborhood(*). I suspect that all self-moving creature develop some form of consciousness, even the plants (but not necessarily on the same scale). Consciousness is almost like an unconscious religion or act of faith. In the early morning, it can take the shape of a vague belief in some coffee-cup reality, and that seems handy to generalize and bet that there might be some other possibilities beyond the bed :) Bruno (*) I will prove this on Russell's FOAR list, where I develop some more technical detail. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Materialism can never explain consciousness or perception properly, because:
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 7:16 AM, Roger Clough wrote: > Materialism can never explain consciousness or perception properly, because: Neither materialism nor non-materialism can explain consciousness if it's fundamental because being fundamental means explanations come to a end. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Materialism can never explain consciousness or perception properly, because:
On 04 May 2013, at 13:16, Roger Clough wrote: Materialism can never explain consciousness or perception properly, because: Nothing physical (nothing in spacetime, such as in many theories of consciousness or perception) can be conscious, because mind is not physical, it is is outside of spacetime. Consciousness is subjective (as any fool can see) and materialism is entirely objective. This is provably false if you assume mechanism. Matter is a first person plural (subjective) notion. You are still taking for granted Aristotle theology. Bruno Consciousness is experience, experience is subjective, and all things subjective require a subject, which is missing from materialism. Consciousness= subject + object = the subjective + the objective. 3) Consciousness is another word for perception. So far, only Leibniz's idealistic metaphysics can properly explains subjectivity, consciousness, and perception. Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 5/4/2013 http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
