Re: Re: Nonsense!
Hi Roger, My idea about this is that the Moon and that we landed on it exists in parallel with the Moon not existing or existing but we not landing on it, or we already having a base on the oon etc. etc. etc. Then which of these possibilities is "real" depends on the knowledge you happen to have, which undermines the concept of "real". I don't think this is an entirely academic matter, e.g. if you could forget everything about the Moon, all these alternative possibilities become open to you again, as I point out here: http://arxiv.org/abs/0902.3825 The reality of alternative possibilities may actually be the very thing that makes us conscious. If you accept machine consciousness, you have the problem that in a classical picture the machine evolves deterministically from one state to another, and you can map such a system to a trivial system (say a clock). To see that a computer is performing a non-trivial computation requires knowledge of counterfactuals, but then counterfactuals by definition haven't happened. At any one moment you are in some state which doesn't contain the information that a computation is carried out. A way out of this problem is to look more precisely at what the MWI really implies for a realistic computer capable of simulating the human brain. One has to accept here that given what a conscious person is aware of is only an astronomically small fraction of the information present in the brain. So, the MWI implies that the so-called branches that are supposed to be sectors of the multiverse where a peson has observed some dfinite result, actually consists of an astronomically large number of unresolved micro-branches, each containing diferent information. The rest of the universe is, of course, entangled with the observer in these micro-branches. In this article: http://arxiv.org/abs/1009.4472 I point out that this structure defines at least partially the algorithm that is running at any moment. So, the fact that things don't exist if we don't look may be the very reason why we can exist at all. Saibal Citeren Roger Clough : Hi smitra If the moon doesn't exist, how were we able to land men on it ? Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/25/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: smitra Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-24, 23:04:51 Subject: Re: Nonsense! Citeren "Stephen P. King" : On 9/24/2012 12:02 PM, John Clark wrote: Thus the moon does not exist when you are not looking at it. Hi John, I expected better from you! This quip is based on the premise that "you" are the only observer involved. Such nonsense! Considering that there are a HUGE number of observers of the moon, the effects of the observations of any one is negligible. If none of them measure the presence of the moon or its effects, then the existence of the moon becomes pure the object of speculation. Note that being affected by the moon in terms of tidal effects is a measurement! -- Onward! Stephen http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html Thing is, the Moon doesn't exist, even if you do look at it. Saibal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Nonsense!
Hi smitra If the moon doesn't exist, how were we able to land men on it ? Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/25/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: smitra Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-24, 23:04:51 Subject: Re: Nonsense! Citeren "Stephen P. King" : > On 9/24/2012 12:02 PM, John Clark wrote: >> Thus the moon does not exist when you are not looking at it. > Hi John, > > I expected better from you! This quip is based on the premise that > "you" are the only observer involved. Such nonsense! Considering that > there are a HUGE number of observers of the moon, the effects of the > observations of any one is negligible. If none of them measure the > presence of the moon or its effects, then the existence of the moon > becomes pure the object of speculation. Note that being affected by > the moon in terms of tidal effects is a measurement! > > -- > Onward! > > Stephen > > http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html > Thing is, the Moon doesn't exist, even if you do look at it. Saibal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Nonsense!
In a mathematical universe, platonia is the world of the platonic solids, the laws of newton, the equations of schrödinger, The general laws of gravity, the M theory, the peaks in the fitness landscape of every specie and the Nash equilibriums in social environments. It is not a harsh universe, but plenty of harmony, beauty and moral. 2012/9/25 Roger Clough > Hi John Clark > > Leibniz's supreme monad, or if you like, Plato's All > observes all, everywhere, all of the time. > > > Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net > 9/25/2012 > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen > > > - Receiving the following content - > From: John Clark > Receiver: everything-list > Time: 2012-09-24, 12:59:07 > Subject: Re: Nonsense! > > > > On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: > > ? > >> Thus the moon does not exist when you are not looking at it. > > ? > ? > I expected better from you! This quip is based on the premise that > "you" are the only observer involved. Such nonsense! Considering that there > are a HUGE number of observers of the moon > > What about the crater Daedalus on the far side of the moon, nobody is > observing it at this moment so does it exist right now? At any rate my > point was that if it's true that "there is no email message outside of > human interpretation" as Craig Weinberg asserted then it must also be true > that the moon does not exist when you are not looking at it. > > ? John K Clark > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Nonsense!
Hi John Clark Leibniz's supreme monad, or if you like, Plato's All observes all, everywhere, all of the time. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/25/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: John Clark Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-24, 12:59:07 Subject: Re: Nonsense! On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: ? >> Thus the moon does not exist when you are not looking at it. ? ? > I expected better from you! This quip is based on the premise that "you" are the only observer involved. Such nonsense! Considering that there are a HUGE number of observers of the moon What about the crater Daedalus on the far side of the moon, nobody is observing it at this moment so does it exist right now? At any rate my point was that if it's true that "there is no email message outside of human interpretation" as Craig Weinberg asserted then it must also be true that the moon does not exist when you are not looking at it. ? John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
