Re: Re: Re: What Hell is like

[Craig Weinberg]

On Friday, January 4, 2013 3:09:11 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
>
>  Hi Craig Weinberg 
>  
> You're right, I was thinking as a jew might, but if orgot that jesus 
> introduced the
> concept of thought crimes (intentions).  
>


" I was thinking as a jew might,"

lol

  
> [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] 
> 1/4/2013 
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
>
> - Receiving the following content - 
> *From:* Craig Weinberg  
> *Receiver:* everything-list  
> *Time:* 2013-01-03, 12:05:31
> *Subject:* Re: Re: What Hell is like
>
>  
>
> On Thursday, January 3, 2013 9:11:29 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: 
>>
>>  Hi Craig Weinberg 
>>  
>> All of your quotes are very good advice.
>> What's your point ?
>>
>
> My point is that any worthwhile religion is very much concerned with 
> intentions and the content of your 'heart', at least as much as whether you 
> violate the letter of any particular religious law. You were saying that 
> all that matters is whether you sinned or not, whether you break the law or 
> not, and that your good or evil intentions don't matter. I am saying that 
> intention is a defining aspect of any honest conception of good and evil.
>  
>
>>   
>>  
>> [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net]
>> 1/3/2013 
>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
>>
>> - Receiving the following content - 
>> *From:* Craig Weinberg 
>> *Receiver:* everything-list 
>> *Time:* 2013-01-03, 08:47:13
>> *Subject:* Re: What Hell is like
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Thursday, January 3, 2013 6:06:42 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: 
>>>
>>> Hi Craig Weinberg   
>>>
>>> It doesn't matter whether you have good or bad intentions. 
>>> The law and God judge us by what we do. You do the crime, 
>>> you do the time. 
>>
>>
>> I'll let the Bible speak for itself, if that is the God you are talking 
>> about:
>>
>> Timothy 
>> 1:5 
>>  
>>
>>
>> The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good 
>> conscience and a sincere faith. 
>>  Timothy 
>> 6:10
>>   
>>
>> "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through 
>> this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced 
>> themselves with many pangs. "
>> Hebrews 
>> 12:14
>>   
>>
>>
>> Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one 
>> will see the Lord. 
>> Timothy 
>> 3:13
>>   
>>
>>
>> While evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving 
>> and being deceived. 
>> Philippians 
>> 4:8
>>  
>>
>> Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is 
>> just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if 
>> there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about 
>> these things. 
>> Philippians 
>> 1:15-18
>>   
>>
>>
>> Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good 
>> will. The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the 
>> defense of the gospel. The former proclaim Christ out of rivalry, not 
>> sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. What then? Only 
>> that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, 
>> and in that I rejoice. Yes, and I will rejoice, 
>> Ephesians 
>> 2:8-9
>>   
>>
>>
>> For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own 
>> doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may 
>> boast. 
>> Romans 
>> 2:5  
>>
>>
>> But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath 
>> for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be 
>> revealed. 
>>
>>
>> You sin, you go to Hell. 
>>
>>
>> If you repent, you go to Heaven.
>>  
>>
>>> Personally, I believe 
>>> that the "eternal torture" of Hell is not to be able to feel God's 
>>> love and forgiveness. That would be Hell to a Jesus. He 
>>> refers to being tossed out and undergoing a "weeping and 
>>> gnashing of teeth".  
>>>
>>
>>> Hindus and Buddhists believe in reincarnation, which from 
>>> what we observe, is not always a pleasant life. 
>>>
>>
>> Personally I believe that Hell and Heaven are metaphors which extrapolate 
>> the ordinary high and low moods of human consciousness to a 
>> super-significance. God is a metaphor in the exact same way - an algebraic 
>> concept of X = Infinite proprietary superlatives. If you are in a world of 
>> competing p

Re: Re: Re: What Hell is like

[Roger Clough]

Hi Craig Weinberg 

You're right, I was thinking as a jew might, but if orgot that jesus introduced 
the
concept of thought crimes (intentions).  

[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
1/4/2013 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content - 
From: Craig Weinberg 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2013-01-03, 12:05:31
Subject: Re: Re: What Hell is like




On Thursday, January 3, 2013 9:11:29 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg 

All of your quotes are very good advice.
What's your point ?

My point is that any worthwhile religion is very much concerned with intentions 
and the content of your 'heart', at least as much as whether you violate the 
letter of any particular religious law. You were saying that all that matters 
is whether you sinned or not, whether you break the law or not, and that your 
good or evil intentions don't matter. I am saying that intention is a defining 
aspect of any honest conception of good and evil.
 



[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net]
1/3/2013 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content - 
From: Craig Weinberg 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2013-01-03, 08:47:13
Subject: Re: What Hell is like




On Thursday, January 3, 2013 6:06:42 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: 
Hi Craig Weinberg   

It doesn't matter whether you have good or bad intentions. 
The law and God judge us by what we do. You do the crime, 
you do the time. 

I'll let the Bible speak for itself, if that is the God you are talking about:


Timothy 1:5  
The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good 
conscience and a sincere faith. 
Timothy 6:10  
"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this 
craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with 
many pangs. "

Hebrews 12:14  
Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will 
see the Lord. 
Timothy 3:13  
While evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and 
being deceived. 

Philippians 4:8 
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, 
whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any 
excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. 

Philippians 1:15-18  
Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. The 
latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the 
gospel. The former proclaim Christ out of rivalry, not sincerely but thinking 
to afflict me in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether in 
pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice. Yes, and I 
will rejoice, 

Ephesians 2:8-9  
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; 
it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 

Romans 2:5  
But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for 
yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed. 


You sin, you go to Hell. 

If you repent, you go to Heaven.
 

Personally, I believe 
that the "eternal torture" of Hell is not to be able to feel God's 
love and forgiveness. That would be Hell to a Jesus. He 
refers to being tossed out and undergoing a "weeping and 
gnashing of teeth".  


Hindus and Buddhists believe in reincarnation, which from 
what we observe, is not always a pleasant life. 


Personally I believe that Hell and Heaven are metaphors which extrapolate the 
ordinary high and low moods of human consciousness to a super-significance. God 
is a metaphor in the exact same way - an algebraic concept of X = Infinite 
proprietary superlatives. If you are in a world of competing polytheistic 
deities, each the representation of a personal superlative or sphere of 
influence (God of war, Goddess of beauty, etc), then the invention of a supreme 
ultimate deity who trumps all others in all categories is an excellent 
political strategy. It's a convenient way to consolidate allegiance and direct 
everyone's personal insecurities to a mass psychology solution.

  



[Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] 
1/3/2013   
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen 
- Receiving the following content -   
From: Craig Weinberg   
Receiver: everything-list   
Time: 2013-01-02, 20:24:14 
Subject: Re: The evolution of good and evil 




On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 6:21:27 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: 
On 1/2/2013 2:24 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:   
That really has nothing to do with Evil though, except in sloppy reasoning. 
True Evil is about intentionally initiating social harm. Getting smallpox is 
not evil, it is just unfortunate. Giving someone blankets known to be infected 
with smallp 

On the contrary it is sloppy ethics to confine 'evil' to intentional social 
harm.  First, it implies that soc