On Friday, January 4, 2013 3:09:11 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: > > Hi Craig Weinberg > > You're right, I was thinking as a jew might, but if orgot that jesus > introduced the > concept of thought crimes (intentions). >
" I was thinking as a jew might," lol > [Roger Clough], [[email protected]] <javascript:> > 1/4/2013 > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > *From:* Craig Weinberg <javascript:> > *Receiver:* everything-list <javascript:> > *Time:* 2013-01-03, 12:05:31 > *Subject:* Re: Re: What Hell is like > > > > On Thursday, January 3, 2013 9:11:29 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: >> >> Hi Craig Weinberg >> >> All of your quotes are very good advice. >> What's your point ? >> > > My point is that any worthwhile religion is very much concerned with > intentions and the content of your 'heart', at least as much as whether you > violate the letter of any particular religious law. You were saying that > all that matters is whether you sinned or not, whether you break the law or > not, and that your good or evil intentions don't matter. I am saying that > intention is a defining aspect of any honest conception of good and evil. > > >> >> >> [Roger Clough], [[email protected]] >> 1/3/2013 >> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen >> >> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >> *From:* Craig Weinberg >> *Receiver:* everything-list >> *Time:* 2013-01-03, 08:47:13 >> *Subject:* Re: What Hell is like >> >> >> >> On Thursday, January 3, 2013 6:06:42 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: >>> >>> Hi Craig Weinberg >>> >>> It doesn't matter whether you have good or bad intentions. >>> The law and God judge us by what we do. You do the crime, >>> you do the time. >> >> >> I'll let the Bible speak for itself, if that is the God you are talking >> about: >> >> Timothy >> 1:5<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+1%3A5&version=ESV> >> >> >> >> The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good >> conscience and a sincere faith. >> Timothy >> 6:10<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+6%3A10&version=ESV> >> >> >> "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through >> this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced >> themselves with many pangs. " >> Hebrews >> 12:14<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+12%3A14&version=ESV> >> >> >> >> Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one >> will see the Lord. >> Timothy >> 3:13<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Timothy+3%3A13&version=ESV> >> >> >> >> While evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving >> and being deceived. >> Philippians >> 4:8<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+4%3A8&version=ESV> >> >> >> Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is >> just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if >> there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about >> these things. >> Philippians >> 1:15-18<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+1%3A15-18&version=ESV> >> >> >> >> Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good >> will. The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the >> defense of the gospel. The former proclaim Christ out of rivalry, not >> sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. What then? Only >> that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, >> and in that I rejoice. Yes, and I will rejoice, >> Ephesians >> 2:8-9<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+2%3A8-9&version=ESV> >> >> >> >> For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own >> doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may >> boast. >> Romans >> 2:5<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+2%3A5&version=ESV> >> >> >> But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath >> for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be >> revealed. >> >> >> You sin, you go to Hell. >> >> >> If you repent, you go to Heaven. >> >> >>> Personally, I believe >>> that the "eternal torture" of Hell is not to be able to feel God's >>> love and forgiveness. That would be Hell to a Jesus. He >>> refers to being tossed out and undergoing a "weeping and >>> gnashing of teeth". >>> >> >>> Hindus and Buddhists believe in reincarnation, which from >>> what we observe, is not always a pleasant life. >>> >> >> Personally I believe that Hell and Heaven are metaphors which extrapolate >> the ordinary high and low moods of human consciousness to a >> super-significance. God is a metaphor in the exact same way - an algebraic >> concept of X = Infinite proprietary superlatives. If you are in a world of >> competing polytheistic deities, each the representation of a personal >> superlative or sphere of influence (God of war, Goddess of beauty, etc), >> then the invention of a supreme ultimate deity who trumps all others in all >> categories is an excellent political strategy. It's a convenient way to >> consolidate allegiance and direct everyone's personal insecurities to a >> mass psychology solution. >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> [Roger Clough], [[email protected]] >>> 1/3/2013 >>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen >>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >>> From: Craig Weinberg >>> Receiver: everything-list >>> Time: 2013-01-02, 20:24:14 >>> Subject: Re: The evolution of good and evil >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 6:21:27 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >>> On 1/2/2013 2:24 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >>> That really has nothing to do with Evil though, except in sloppy >>> reasoning. True Evil is about intentionally initiating social harm. Getting >>> smallpox is not evil, it is just unfortunate. Giving someone blankets known >>> to be infected with smallp >>> >>> On the contrary it is sloppy ethics to confine 'evil' to intentional >>> social harm. First, it implies that socially bad is bad simpliciter, but >>> values are ultimately personal values. >>> >>> Speaking of sloppy. I'm not sure what that was intended to say. Without >>> some explanation of why you say that evil is other than intentional social >>> harm, it sounds like you are just saying that you disagree. >>> >>> >>> Second, it implies that as soon as we find a physical cause (he was >>> drunk, he had YY chromosmes, his father beat him) for a behavior it's not >>> longer evil. >>> >>> It implies that only to those who think that personal intention is not a >>> physical cause in its own right. Just because someone was drunk when they >>> commit an evil act doesn't mean that it wasn't an evil act. >>> >>> >>> But all behavior has a physical cause. >>> >>> All physics is an experiential effect. >>> >>> So I'm ok with just dropping the term 'evil' and just referring to >>> good/bad for individuals and good/bad for society as derivative. But I >>> think it's a hangover from theodicy to refer to human actions as evil but >>> not natural events - it's part of the idea that humans are apart from >>> nature. >>> >>> >>> I agree that dropping the term 'evil' as a formal term is the more >>> enlightened way to go. I don't have a problem with it as an informal >>> hyperbole that is reserved for intentionally cruel behavior though. I think >>> that we can separate intentional human cruelty as a class of attitudes and >>> effects unlike any other, though I would not apply any supernatural >>> significance. >>> >>> I would say that there is a hidden hypocrisy in allowing no expectation >>> of self control on the part of individuals while taking it for granted that >>> exactly that kind of moral control is to be expected from a law enforcing >>> society composed of those same individuals. If it's not evil for an axe >>> murderer to execute people at random, how can it be evil for a society to >>> call that person evil and seek to execute them? If we want to be humane >>> toward outlaws that's fine, but I don't think that we should do it out of >>> the assumption that human behaviors are under no more human control than >>> storms and earthquakes. >>> >>> Craig >>> >>> >>> >>> Brent >>> Ethics is, at bottom, the art of recommending to others the >>> self-sacrifice necessary to cooperate with ourselves. >>> --- Bertrand Russell >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/-RFrHbTbweoJ. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/iYwGF4FaHGQJ. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/3mlvEUEnkegJ. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<javascript:> > . > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] <javascript:>. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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