Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling
On Mon, 2022-10-24 at 07:46 -0700, Brewster Gillett wrote: > Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > I briefly used Google Groups a long time ago, though I think it has > > changed since then. They do offer a fairly broad range of > > facilities, > > including email access, admin and moderator roles, and the focus on > > a > > specific topic (Evo), but: > > > > * No Reply To List (and I presume no proper List headers, though I > > haven't checked). Possibly a minor point for some. > > bg: > > It's a low-level irritant. If the sender cares enough (most don't) > or knows how to edit their headers (many can't) it can be worked > around > easily enough. Those using Evo don't have the problem, obviously. > > > POC: > > > * Members need a Google account to sign up. I anticipate that this > > would not please some people. > > bg: > > I'm subscribed to a pretty active Google Group, and AFAIK I was > never required to sign up with a Google account (and would not). Thanks. poc ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling
On Mon, 2022-10-24 at 09:30 -0400, Matt Connell wrote: > On Mon, 2022-10-24 at 14:11 +0200, Jaroslaw Rafa via evolution-list > wrote: > > Dnia 24.10.2022 o godz. 12:49:00 Patrick O'Callaghan pisze: > > > > > > I briefly used Google Groups a long time ago, though I think it > > > has > > > changed since then. They do offer a fairly broad range of > > > facilities, > > > including email access, admin and moderator roles, and the focus > > > on a > > > specific topic (Evo), but: > > > > > > * No Reply To List (and I presume no proper List headers, though > > > I > > > haven't checked). Possibly a minor point for some. > > > > I participate in a few lists hosted on Google Groups. Usually the > > Reply-To: > > header is set to the list address, so there is no problem with > > replying to > > the list. I also have checked now last email that I received from a > > Google > > Groups hosted list and I see that there are List-ID, List-Post, > > List-Help, > > List-Archive and List-Unsubscribe headers. > > > > > * Members need a Google account to sign up. I anticipate that > > > this > > > would not please some people. > > > > On the lists I'm subscribed to there are quite a lot of people who > > don't > > have a Google account. Maybe this changed recently. > > > > While it seems to be actually required to log in to Google to > > subscribe to a > > group via Google Groups web interface, I am pretty sure a group > > admin can > > still subscribe anyone, even without a Google account, because I do > > this all > > the time on one of the lists where subscription is by admin only. > > > > I'm not sure if the option to subscribe yourself by email (without > > going to > > web interface) still works. If yes, then it may be the way to > > subscribe > > without a Google account. > > The vim mailing list is on google groups. No Google account > required, > you can subscribe via email, and reply-to-list works with the "group > reply" button in Evolution as expected. > > Not advocating this solution in any way whatsoever, just commenting. OK, good to have up-to-date information. poc ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > I briefly used Google Groups a long time ago, though I think it has > changed since then. They do offer a fairly broad range of facilities, > including email access, admin and moderator roles, and the focus on a > specific topic (Evo), but: > > * No Reply To List (and I presume no proper List headers, though I > haven't checked). Possibly a minor point for some. bg: It's a low-level irritant. If the sender cares enough (most don't) or knows how to edit their headers (many can't) it can be worked around easily enough. Those using Evo don't have the problem, obviously. > POC: > * Members need a Google account to sign up. I anticipate that this > would not please some people. bg: I'm subscribed to a pretty active Google Group, and AFAIK I was never required to sign up with a Google account (and would not). Brewster ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling
On Mon, 2022-10-24 at 14:11 +0200, Jaroslaw Rafa via evolution-list wrote: > Dnia 24.10.2022 o godz. 12:49:00 Patrick O'Callaghan pisze: > > > > I briefly used Google Groups a long time ago, though I think it has > > changed since then. They do offer a fairly broad range of facilities, > > including email access, admin and moderator roles, and the focus on a > > specific topic (Evo), but: > > > > * No Reply To List (and I presume no proper List headers, though I > > haven't checked). Possibly a minor point for some. > > I participate in a few lists hosted on Google Groups. Usually the Reply-To: > header is set to the list address, so there is no problem with replying to > the list. I also have checked now last email that I received from a Google > Groups hosted list and I see that there are List-ID, List-Post, List-Help, > List-Archive and List-Unsubscribe headers. > > > * Members need a Google account to sign up. I anticipate that this > > would not please some people. > > On the lists I'm subscribed to there are quite a lot of people who don't > have a Google account. Maybe this changed recently. > > While it seems to be actually required to log in to Google to subscribe to a > group via Google Groups web interface, I am pretty sure a group admin can > still subscribe anyone, even without a Google account, because I do this all > the time on one of the lists where subscription is by admin only. > > I'm not sure if the option to subscribe yourself by email (without going to > web interface) still works. If yes, then it may be the way to subscribe > without a Google account. The vim mailing list is on google groups. No Google account required, you can subscribe via email, and reply-to-list works with the "group reply" button in Evolution as expected. Not advocating this solution in any way whatsoever, just commenting. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling
On Mon, 2022-10-24 at 14:11 +0200, Jaroslaw Rafa via evolution-list wrote: > Dnia 24.10.2022 o godz. 12:49:00 Patrick O'Callaghan pisze: > > > > I briefly used Google Groups a long time ago, though I think it has > > changed since then. They do offer a fairly broad range of > > facilities, > > including email access, admin and moderator roles, and the focus on > > a > > specific topic (Evo), but: > > > > * No Reply To List (and I presume no proper List headers, though I > > haven't checked). Possibly a minor point for some. > > I participate in a few lists hosted on Google Groups. Usually the > Reply-To: > header is set to the list address, so there is no problem with > replying to > the list. I also have checked now last email that I received from a > Google > Groups hosted list and I see that there are List-ID, List-Post, List- > Help, > List-Archive and List-Unsubscribe headers. That's good to know. > > * Members need a Google account to sign up. I anticipate that this > > would not please some people. > > On the lists I'm subscribed to there are quite a lot of people who > don't > have a Google account. Maybe this changed recently. I'm going by what the online Help says, but it may not be up to date. > While it seems to be actually required to log in to Google to > subscribe to a > group via Google Groups web interface, I am pretty sure a group admin > can > still subscribe anyone, even without a Google account, because I do > this all > the time on one of the lists where subscription is by admin only. It would be quite burdensome to require admin approval for signing up, so I'd hope this could be done directly by the users as at present. I'd also hope that membership lists could be imported from Mailman. > I'm not sure if the option to subscribe yourself by email (without > going to > web interface) still works. If yes, then it may be the way to > subscribe > without a Google account. > > > * The group address is directly associated with googlemail.com, > > You mean googlegroups.com, not googlemail.com ? Yes, I think so. PEBKAC. poc ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling
Dnia 24.10.2022 o godz. 12:49:00 Patrick O'Callaghan pisze: > > I briefly used Google Groups a long time ago, though I think it has > changed since then. They do offer a fairly broad range of facilities, > including email access, admin and moderator roles, and the focus on a > specific topic (Evo), but: > > * No Reply To List (and I presume no proper List headers, though I > haven't checked). Possibly a minor point for some. I participate in a few lists hosted on Google Groups. Usually the Reply-To: header is set to the list address, so there is no problem with replying to the list. I also have checked now last email that I received from a Google Groups hosted list and I see that there are List-ID, List-Post, List-Help, List-Archive and List-Unsubscribe headers. > * Members need a Google account to sign up. I anticipate that this > would not please some people. On the lists I'm subscribed to there are quite a lot of people who don't have a Google account. Maybe this changed recently. While it seems to be actually required to log in to Google to subscribe to a group via Google Groups web interface, I am pretty sure a group admin can still subscribe anyone, even without a Google account, because I do this all the time on one of the lists where subscription is by admin only. I'm not sure if the option to subscribe yourself by email (without going to web interface) still works. If yes, then it may be the way to subscribe without a Google account. > * The group address is directly associated with googlemail.com, You mean googlegroups.com, not googlemail.com ? -- Regards, Jaroslaw Rafa r...@rafa.eu.org -- "In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub." ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling
On Sun, 2022-10-23 at 17:57 +0200, Yury V. Zaytsev wrote: > * Google Groups - free, no positive / negative experience I briefly used Google Groups a long time ago, though I think it has changed since then. They do offer a fairly broad range of facilities, including email access, admin and moderator roles, and the focus on a specific topic (Evo), but: * No Reply To List (and I presume no proper List headers, though I haven't checked). Possibly a minor point for some. * Members need a Google account to sign up. I anticipate that this would not please some people. * The group address is directly associated with googlemail.com, assuming the free option. For corporate/education domains (i.e. Google Workspace) this can be changed. poc ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling
Hi, FWIW, since a few years, Mutt's mailing lists[1] are hosted at Oregon State University Open Source Lab[2]. From my limited experience, this solution works quite reliably. In general, they provide hosting of mailing lists and other services for free for open source projects[3]. Some alternatives off the top of my head to consider: - Debian mailing lists[4], - freedesktop.org, as already mentioned by Yuri, - SourceHut[5] (most likely paid). [1]: http://mutt.org/mail-lists.html [2]: https://osuosl.org/ [3]: https://osuosl.org/services/hosting/policy/ [4]: https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/HOWTO_start_list.en.html [5]: https://sourcehut.org/ Best of luck -- Grzegorz signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling
Hi Ralf,
I've briefly looked into the alternatives:
* groups.io - way too expensive for us
* riseup.net - political organization
* Google Groups - free, no positive / negative experience
* Freedesktop - maybe they could accept a couple of low-traffic lists?
If other lists find a good solution, please let us know. Thanks!
--
Sincerely yours,
Yury V. Zaytsev
On Sun, 23 Oct 2022, Ralf Mardorf via mc wrote:
Hi,
I'm a long time Evolution mailing list subscriber, who just recently
subscribed to the gimp and mc mailing list, since we all suffer from the
decision that the GNOME mailing lists get shut down this month.
Reading the MC archive I noticed the question regarding groups.io. If
it's free as in beer or not depends on the count of subscribers and the
needed storage space. In short, it likely is not for free as in beer.
I opened a ticket with a request at
https://support.riseup.net/en/ticket/3227QJ76OfCW7Ci7 .
On the Evolution mailing list a user asked
"What other Gnome lists (analogous to evolution-list) are currently
scrambling with the abrupt decision to switch to discourse?
[snip]" -
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-list/2022-October/msg00294.html
Let's unite our power{,lessness}!
Regards,
Ralf
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Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling
Dnia 23.10.2022 o godz. 18:15:49 Ralf Mardorf via evolution-list pisze: > On Sun, 2022-10-23 at 17:57 +0200, Yury V. Zaytsev wrote: > > * groups.io - way too expensive for us > > * riseup.net - political organization > > * Google Groups - free, no positive / negative experience > > * Freedesktop - maybe they could accept a couple of low-traffic lists? > > > > If other lists find a good solution, please let us know. Thanks! There's no problem with setting up a server with Mailman+Postfix and running a mailing list on it. For example I have Mailman ready and running on my personal server as I run a couple of very low-volume lists (but probably the capacity of my server is too low to run a busy list with a lot of subscribers). The problem is deliverability. The server's IP and domain needs to have good enough "reputation" for the messages to reach inboxes of all recipients (especially accounts at "big" mail providers like Google or Microsoft). For example, I have a constant problem with Google - emails sent from my server land in recipients' Spam folder on Gmail by default, despite the fact that no spam was ever sent from that server :(. Therefor we don't need just a server with mailing list software, we need a "known" server. ;) Someone offered here to host the list on Debian site. I think it would be the best option. As for Google Groups: Pros: 1) list is easy to set up 2) free regardless of number of subscribers 3) works quite reliably 4) good deliverability (almost nobody blocks mail from Google) 5) actually working web interface, one can participate in list via web, web interface can also serve as archive 6) theoretically there is an option to import subscribers list (but I don't know how Google will behave with 900 subscribers, it may interpret it as a spam attempt) Cons: 1) management web interface is limited in features compared to Mailman (for example you have no control over bounce processing, this is handled somehow automagically by Google's AI). 2) no option to import the archive from previous list (but GNOME folks said that the old archive will be kept, so it can be linked from list description) It's definitely not a bad choice, if you have no objections against hosting the list on Google. -- Regards, Jaroslaw Rafa r...@rafa.eu.org -- "In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub." ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling
On Sun, 2022-10-23 at 17:57 +0200, Yury V. Zaytsev wrote: > * groups.io - way too expensive for us > * riseup.net - political organization > * Google Groups - free, no positive / negative experience > * Freedesktop - maybe they could accept a couple of low-traffic lists? > > If other lists find a good solution, please let us know. Thanks! Hi Yury, thank you for the summary. If something good should happen, I'll let you know. Regards, Ralf ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
[Evolution] Let's unite the power of all mailing list subscribers who are affected by GNOME's ruling
Hi,
I'm a long time Evolution mailing list subscriber, who just recently
subscribed to the gimp and mc mailing list, since we all suffer from the
decision that the GNOME mailing lists get shut down this month.
Reading the MC archive I noticed the question regarding groups.io. If
it's free as in beer or not depends on the count of subscribers and the
needed storage space. In short, it likely is not for free as in beer.
I opened a ticket with a request at
https://support.riseup.net/en/ticket/3227QJ76OfCW7Ci7 .
On the Evolution mailing list a user asked
"What other Gnome lists (analogous to evolution-list) are currently
scrambling with the abrupt decision to switch to discourse?
[snip]" -
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-list/2022-October/msg00294.html
Let's unite our power{,lessness}!
Regards,
Ralf
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