"Stephen F. Bosch" wrote:
How do I filter out Mallard's hot wind using qmail?
Go to your options menu and set it to move messages with "Mallard" in
them to another mail directory. That should do it.
If everyone ignores the GEEKYNESS of Linux, maybe LINUX WILL GO AWAY!
Mallard wrote:
"Stephen F. Bosch" wrote:
How do I filter out Mallard's hot wind using qmail?
Go to your options menu and set it to move messages with "Mallard" in
them to another mail directory. That should do it.
yup - under netscape edit-message filters-new- ... you get the idea.
Man, Mallard! Why do you even stop by?
--Greg
"Stephen F. Bosch" wrote:
How do I filter out Mallard's hot wind using qmail?
Go to your options menu and set it to move messages with "Mallard" in
them to another mail directory. That should do it.
If everyone ignores the GEEKYNESS
I will be out of the office from August 22 through August. 27. I will have limited
opportunity to respond to email until then.
Thank you.
Pj wrote:
About 4 years ago I was contemplating a MAC. I
was at the local sales/repair shop and asked to see
it's DOS. All I saw was icons! "How do I get into it?"
"You don't", was the reply. "But how do I write script or change
stacks?"
"You don't. That's what we're here for."
Neither the
Maybe this list should be moderated. I signed on to pick up some tips and
contribute when I could. I get about 80% troll/trash and about 20% useful
interaction. For an "expert" list, this is pretty sad. Time to tune up
my procmail filter.
Stew Benedict
GREAT! forces the geeks to not be geeks! Damn they hate that.
DOS? Like I said before, it's not 1983 ANY MORE! this command line crap
is for the birds. You should be using some sort of GUI minimum to access
remote machines (like servers).
This actually is not as much a matter of what "we"
Mallard wrote:
You need to READ SOME MANUALS to be able to program a Mac. You may have
to LEARN SOMETHING, and would probably have to spend as many hours as it
takes to learn "vi".
I'm always somewhat amused by Neal Stephenson's "In the Beginning was
the Command Line", when he writes of the
Tom Massey wrote:
Mallard wrote:
snip
I think its all a way for geeks to keep their day jobs. make the exec's
think you are worth something because you know some cryptic commands you
can type in. The more crap you remember, the more you move up the geek
ladder. Why do people hang
I never saw a CL until I met the penguin. It's the best thing that ever
happened. Because of a video card conflict I couldn't get into KDE to
configure KPPP to connect to the net-but if learned I don't have to. It
doesn't matter. I did it with CL. It's just one more tool winflop doesn't
offer.
How do I filter out Mallard's hot wind using qmail?
-Stephen-
On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Stew Benedict wrote:
Maybe this list should be moderated. I signed on to pick up some tips and
contribute when I could. I get about 80% troll/trash and about 20% useful
interaction. For an "expert" list, this is pretty sad. Time to tune up
my procmail filter.
I
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I never saw a CL until I met the penguin. It's the best thing that ever
happened. Because of a video card conflict I couldn't get into KDE to
configure KPPP to connect to the net-but if learned I don't have to. It
doesn't matter. I did it with CL. It's just one more
Hello Mark,
CL was probably the wrong initials to use. I think correctly it is Command
Line Interface and it's a godsend. I seem to have a big permissions
problem. I can't use KDE for anything except to play cards because I can't
do anything on my machine except as root. Getting on line and
I tell ya, text-mode DOOM is a very strange thing. :)
My word... *this* I'm not familiar with... tell me more!
AALib is an ASCII-art graphics library. You can get it from
http://horac.ta.jcu.cz/aa/aalib/ -- they've got source and binaries for a
number of different platforms. The people
)
Subject: Re: [expert] Vi/Vim - The editor from HELL! How do
I set the default editor soI can TRASH IT?
Then when one is finished, press the escape key
You know what? That argument is akin to say that since there is crap on
the TV when you turn it on that you're being forced by the television
programmers to watch the crap. There IS a menu under the 'linux' button
that will let you choose 'any' editor you wish to use. And if you don't
like any of
Fredrik Nilsson wrote (in part):
I have made a short list of some useful commands.
WOW, that convinces me, let's see...
I want to copy this word so yw, but wait, I have to tell it what word,
so Mj on over there near it and then yw and then
Mklljjjll on over to where I want it
Ron Marriage wrote:
if you want to use the power and the
potential that comes with linux, then you have to get out
to the console and learn how to use the professional
editors that everyone else will be working with.
Power? The power to waste my life away with silly commands I will forget
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Mallard pushed some tiny letters in this order:
Fredrik Nilsson wrote (in part):
I have made a short list of some useful commands.
WOW, that convinces me, let's see...
I want to copy this word so yw, but wait, I have to tell it what word,
so Mj on
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Mallard wrote:
Why did Mandrake pick the most geekyist editor for a setup that is
suposto be easy for users?
Anyone else seen this joke of a program?
With Vim all you have to do is spend a half hour trying to get it give
you help, then scroll all the way to the
on 8/15/00 8:50 PM, Tony McGee wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Gavin Clark pushed some tiny letters in this order:
I'm not saying get rid of it at all, just make something else the default.
it would be an easy thing to have vi come up as a choice for experts during
the install.
An
Oh dear Oh dear
I could guess a discussion of the merits of vi(m) would cause much argument.
I have been using UNIX variants for 12 years now.
And have run courses on UNIX and editors such as vi.
I also am a great fan of Windows based computing for ease of use purposes.
I also don't
On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, Ron Marriage wrote:
While my favorite editor is emacs, I have to say that
anyone that considers themselves an expert owes it to
themselves to learn vi(m).
An emacser saying a good thing about vi! What IS the world coming to!
There are times when only it will do the
As a new user I have enjoyed this thread a great deal because I got a
glimpse at Vi editor thru it. I'm a Winflop user and hate it..which is why
I am slowly moving into Linux, but I have an advantage. My guru is a
Linuxgod/power user/debugger who is holding my hand. I've gotten over my
love for
Apologies in advance for the long rant... :-)
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Gavin Clark pushed some tiny letters in this order:
An installation choice has been the best idea to come out of this thread. This
How do we get this into 7.2?
I'm sure there's at least *some* developers at
Gentlemen, PLEASE! No editor wars. Neither of you will convince the other,
and all you will do is waste your time and that of the rest of the folks
on this list.
On Wed, Aug 16, 2000 at 05:09:08PM +1000, Tony McGee wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Mallard pushed some tiny letters in this
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 2:41 AM
Subject: Re [expert] Vi/Vim - The editor from HELL! How do I
setthedefault editor so I can TRASH IT?
Ron Marriage wrote:
if you want to use the power and the
potential that comes with linux, then you have to get
out
to the console and
I must be missing something here.
The editor I get when I type "vi" in a console/terminal/whatever
is simple to use. Cursor keys work just as I expect them
to. If I want to start inserting stuff, I just type an i
and the word INSERT appears at the bottom. Then I move around
with the cursor keys,
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
No-one is forcing you to use vim. If you don't like it use something else! Can
we kill this thread please? The best thing to come out of it would be for
Mandrakesoft to take the suggestion of a default editor selection at
installation time because complaining
Gentlemen, PLEASE! No editor wars. Neither of you will convince the other,
and all you will do is waste your time and that of the rest of the folks
on this list.
On Wed, Aug 16, 2000 at 05:09:08PM +1000, Tony McGee wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Mallard pushed some tiny letters in this
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, John Aldrich pushed some tiny letters in this order:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
No-one is forcing you to use vim. If you don't like it use something else! Can
we kill this thread please? The best thing to come out of it would be for
Mandrakesoft to take the
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
What are the programs that use this environment variable? I just typed
`echo $EDITOR` at a prompt and received nothing. I haven't modified any of the
system wide profile files or my own .bashrc file since installation, neither
have I received any warnings
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
What's so hard about that? Even the old DOS "edit.exe" wasn't
any easier.
If that's too hard to learn how to do, the person isn't a newbie,
they're an idiot.
Yes, I know there are advanced features that require learning a little
more to use, but by the
If we want the developers to help us like they did a year ago when Denis,
Steve, Civileme, Axalon, Jean-Michael, Ramon, Dave, Brian, and others like
them, were watching the list and responding then we have to change our
collective attitudes. The power users and guru's are lurking in the
What are the programs that use this environment variable? I just typed
`echo $EDITOR` at a prompt and received nothing. I haven't modified any
of the system wide profile files or my own .bashrc file since
installation, neither have I received any warnings that the env
variable isn't set.
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, John Aldrich wrote:
Well, in point of fact, they are. When vi/vim is the "default" editor
of choice when you install linux, you ARE forcing people to use vi.
Not everyone knows that you can just edit your .bashrc (or
/etc/bashrc) to fix this.
John
I don't agree.
Submitted 15-Aug-00 by Gavin Clark:
I'm not saying get rid of it at all, just make something else the default.
it would be an easy thing to have vi come up as a choice for experts during
the install.
Problem is newbies are the ones most likely to trash their installations
and need a rescue
Anton Graham wrote:
Problem is newbies are the ones most likely to trash their
installations
and need a rescue disk without a clearly defined plan of action. For
these individuals, vi is the only editor guaranteed to be running on
the
system. the others are all in the /usr tree and/or
This whole thread shows how the geeks won't let go of this
stuff and thus Linux won't make it against winDOS or Mac.
I can see Bill G. laughing all the way to the bank.
No, all it shows is the difference in requirements between someone who works
with system administration and flat-file text
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, John Aldrich wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
No-one is forcing you to use vim. If you don't like it use something else! Can
we kill this thread please? The best thing to come out of it would be for
Mandrakesoft to take the suggestion of a default editor
Oh, and another thing:
This *is* an expert list. Experts usually know how to use a basic editor
and how to change the default editor when they need to.
-Stephen-
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
Oh, and another thing:
This *is* an expert list. Experts usually know how to use a basic editor
and how to change the default editor when they need to.
-Stephen-
Excellent point.
Can't this thread just die? I think the only thing that could have been more
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Mallard wrote:
So put a big RED sticker on the disk with "WARNING: You may need to go
buy a book to learn how to use the overboard, overdesignedBLA BLA
BLA HOT AIR SNIP
Okay, Mallard - I have a suggestion for you. YOU make new Linux
distribution for non-geeks.
But
People shouldn't need to know ANYTHING about computers to use one, or
read all sorts of documentation to get something done on one. The next
generation of OS that makes it will the one that is programmed to
interface with a human without a learning curve. Geeks will hate it.
In the words of
Gee that was helpful-NOT. But at least somewhat sympathetic
Ok I'm going to type something helpful
when calling vi/vim up, first one needs to press the i key for insert,
this will enable the user to start typing letters into the text file
(or C or C++ or whatever its used for)
and hit the
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
Gee that was helpful-NOT. But at least somewhat sympathetic
Ok I'm going to type something helpful
-- snip ---
As for why the hell it was written the way it
was I have no idea, but it would be helpful if
On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, Mallard wrote:
Can you please at least have some respect for the choices of others. The
comments on this thread are all turning into flames. Asking Mandrake to
change the default editor is one thing, but that doesn't have to involve
flaming vi.
WOW, that convinces me,
OK, I'm going to start twit filtering EVERYONE who participates in this
thread. It is off topic, and degenrating into infantile noise.
Let it die, people.
A twit filter, for you newbies, means I will set procmail to discard any
mail that comes from the designated twit. this means I will never
I like to use both (commandline and gui)
who says you can't serve 2 masters :)
When the gui skrooze up, I go in under the commandline
and kick it in the butt with a kill command.
On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, you wrote:
It seems everyone has put their 2 cents in so why not me?
2 cents
While my
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Mallard wrote:
I want to get some work done, not go backwards. Are you still living in
1978 or do you use a GUI?
If using a GUI is all there is, then perhaps I would like better to live
in 1978, where the user interface is at least somewhat stable...
I can still
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
Oh, and another thing:
This *is* an expert list. Experts usually know how to use a basic editor
and how to change the default editor when they need to.
-Stephen-
Sorry for the dumb question, but how does one who does not
know about it learn about it if
I can still function 90% without a GUI, except for viewing images and
video. Even that can be done in ascii art :)
One word: aalib.
I tell ya, text-mode DOOM is a very strange thing. :)
--
Ben Reed a.k.a. Ranger Rick ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://defiance.dyndns.org/ /
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Mallard wrote:
Oh my, Mallard:
Your're really getting emotional with this vi thing. I'd like to say
your're suggestion would help some, but make others get stuck with pico
that they don't even use. I myself used to use pico some, but found it too
featureless for
On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Mallard pushed some tiny letters in this order:
People shouldn't need to know ANYTHING about computers to use one, or
read all sorts of documentation to get something done on one. The next
generation of OS that makes it will the one that is programmed to
interface with a
Vic wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
This *is* an expert list. Experts usually know how to use a basic editor
and how to change the default editor when they need to.
-Stephen-
Sorry for the dumb question, but how does one who does not
know about it learn about it if they do
Benjamin Reed wrote:
One word: aalib.
I tell ya, text-mode DOOM is a very strange thing. :)
My word... *this* I'm not familiar with... tell me more!
-Stephen-
- Original Message -
From: "Tony McGee" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 11:28 PM
Subject: Re: Re [expert] Vi/Vim - The editor from HELL! How do I
setthedefault editor soI can TRASH IT?
On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Mallard pushed some ti
- Original Message -
From: "Don" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [expert] Vi/Vim - The editor from HELL! How do I set the
default editor soI can TRASH IT?
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, you wrote:
Gee that w
.snip..
The beauty of the ongoing evolution of Linux is that it will
eventually fulfill both the need for the geek and the grandfather looking at
emailed pictures of his grandkids. This is the direct opposite of most
other OS's which use operating obfuscation in the
On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Adam Koch pushed some tiny letters in this order:
In the tradition of applying an automotive analogy...do you know how the
tumblers in the cylinder of the switch on your steering column work? Do you
know how that switch activates your starter motor? Do you know what
Couldn't the default editor be chosen depending on what kind of install
you chose (e.g., automatic -- CoolEdit or whatever, customized/expert
-- emacs/vim) in future releases of Linux-Mandrake?
And remember, vi/vim can't be the editor from Hell; that's where all the
M$ products come from :-)
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Sheldon wrote:
I do EVERYTHING in vi, including programming, etc.
It's fast, reliable, works over telnet, etc.
In respect for those who are stuck working on a slow as crap link to a box
which you can see your typing 30 seconds after you hit the key, vi is very
useful to
Ditto for everything that Ellick said.
I do EVERYTHING in vi, including programming, etc.
It's fast, reliable, works over telnet, etc.
You are most surely asking for flames if you are posting
that kind of stuff here. Alot of us, incl. me are
unix/linux sysadmins. When you are doing remote
Gavin Clark wrote:
If it bugs you, don't use it - there are plenty of other character-driven text
editors available.
this is backwards, if you know how to use vi or are willing to learn then it
will be a simple task for you to use it. but if you are new to linux/unix
(read: just about
I use an small and free, but efficient, html editor/word processor from
http://www.fookes.com called Super Note Tab. If it will work under Wine,
you should be quite happy
Pj
At 07:50 PM 8/14/00 -0500, you wrote:
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Mallard wrote:
Why did Mandrake pick the most geekyist
At 07:50 PM 8/14/00 -0500, you wrote:
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Mallard wrote:
Why did Mandrake pick the most geekyist editor for a setup that is
suposto be easy for users?
It's the unix tradition :)
Anyone else seen this joke of a program?
Yes, and I use it almost daily
With Vim all you
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Mallard wrote:
Why did Mandrake pick the most geekyist editor for a setup that is
suposto be easy for users?
It's the unix tradition :)
Anyone else seen this joke of a program?
Yes, and I use it almost daily
With Vim all you have to do is spend a half hour
Thanks, it worked!
I put that line in /etc/bashrc at the end, it seemed to make more sense
to me since it is the main bash set up file for the system. It's easier
for me to remember where it is.
I tried typing it in at a shell prompt and it worked OK till I exited
the console, so it needs to be
RYou could include a shell script with every distro called
R"run-this-for-a-total-geek-system.sh", make it remove X, KDE and all GUI
Rstuff and install the latest version of vim (so they have all the
Rfeatures available, wouldn't want even one left out, it has to do
You got that backwards.
One person wrote:
Some people missed the points I was making and now I know why Linux is
going to have problems as long as the people who write programs for it
don't drop this geeky attitude.
And another wrote:
But, if you don't get them to learn, then they will always need a
tech-support
Of Mallard
Sent: den 15 augusti 2000 16:42
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Rial Juan
Subject: Re [expert] Vi/Vim - The editor from HELL! How do I set
thedefault editor so I can TRASH IT?
Thanks, it worked!
I put that line in /etc/bashrc at the end, it seemed to make more sense
to me since it is the main bash set
It seems everyone has put their 2 cents in so why not me?
2 cents
While my favorite editor is emacs, I have to say that
anyone that considers themselves an expert owes it to
themselves to learn vi(m).
There are times when only it will do the job, partly
because it might be the only editor
on 8/14/00 7:43 PM, Stephen F. Bosch wrote:
Gavin Clark wrote:
If it bugs you, don't use it - there are plenty of other character-driven
text
editors available.
this is backwards, if you know how to use vi or are willing to learn then it
will be a simple task for you to use it. but if
On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Gavin Clark pushed some tiny letters in this order:
-- but don't trash it without having a damn good reason. "It's
too hard for me" is not a good reason.
neither is "that's the way we've always done it".
I'm not saying get rid of it at all, just make something
Why did Mandrake pick the most geekyist editor for a setup that is
suposto be easy for users?
Anyone else seen this joke of a program?
With Vim all you have to do is spend a half hour trying to get it give
you help, then scroll all the way to the bottom of a super long
whoopy-do list of usless
Mallard:
I agree with you 200%!
I have wasted all kinds of time trying to work with "UNIX"
tools that are outdated and clumsy, except for the geeks who
thought they were cute. They aren't.
I have been writing useful 'C' programs for 20+ years (obviously not in
UNIX/LINUX) and have never seen
---
-Original Message-
From: Bill Hudspeth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 11:40 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [expert] Vi/Vim - The editor from HELL! How do I set the
default editor so I can TRASH IT?
Mallard:
I agree with you 200
IMO usability is not a static concept. To me it's a great usability and speed
feature that my hands never have to leave the alphanumeric part of the
keyboard.
The outstanding contribution of vi is that it needs virtually no per-machine
configuration. It's plug and play on any keyboard and
Bill Hudspeth wrote:
I agree with you 200%!
I have wasted all kinds of time trying to work with "UNIX"
tools that are outdated and clumsy, except for the geeks who
thought they were cute. They aren't.
Vi will always be around, and Linux/Unix admins will always have to know how
to use it.
- Original Message -
From: "Mallard" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 1:33 PM
Subject: [expert] Vi/Vim - The editor from HELL! How do I set the default
editor so I can TRASH IT?
Yea, I am pissed. All I wanted to do is set up my cron file
Calm down; vi is part of the linux heritage, and will therefor always be around.
Well, enough peoble have been ranting about that.
If you want another editor (let's assume pico in our example), put this line
somewhere in /etc/profile:
export EDITOR="pico"
Hope this helps you calm your nerves.
Bill Hudspeth wrote:
I agree with you 200%!
I have wasted all kinds of time trying to work with "UNIX"
tools that are outdated and clumsy, except for the geeks who
thought they were cute. They aren't.
Vi will always be around, and Linux/Unix admins will always have to know how
to use it.
On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Mallard wrote:
Why did Mandrake pick the most geekyist editor for a setup that is
suposto be easy for users?
It's the unix tradition :)
Anyone else seen this joke of a program?
Yes, and I use it almost daily
With Vim all you have to do is spend a half hour trying
Submitted 14-Aug-00 by Zaleski, Matthew (M.E.):
I disagree. I don't like vi but I learned enough to do some basic editing.
Vi is about the only full screen editor that's guaranteed to be on any
Unix/Linux box. At least knowing the basics of using it is valuable when
your system takes a
lp improve the product.
-Original Message-
From: Bill Hudspeth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 2:40 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [expert] Vi/Vim - The editor from HELL! How do I set the
default editor so I can TRASH IT?
Mal
I think the whole discussion is important in that it points out
at least one of the problems in documentation of a very complex
system. I, for one, have been using vi since the 80's, and it's
practically always my editor of choice. Why? Because I know it.
Frankly, I've never recommended it for
Submitted 14-Aug-00 by Zaleski, Matthew (M.E.):
I disagree. I don't like vi but I learned enough to do some basic editing.
Vi is about the only full screen editor that's guaranteed to be on any
Unix/Linux box. At least knowing the basics of using it is valuable when
your system takes a
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