Re: [FairfieldLife] Ramana Maharshi's 4 Technologies of Evolution (was: The New Advaitins)
on 1/3/06 12:16 PM, Michael Dean Goodman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sometimes people criticize Maharishi for putting attention on these very relative, very material practices. But my take is that his compassion for, and attention to, the whole population is incredible. He could have merely sat on the peak, waiting for the cream to rise and come to him, and given them the Self-inquiry and final strokes of mahavakyas (which is what some neo-advaitins do today). That would make him a rishi. But what makes him a maha-rishi, a great rishi, is that he makes the know- ledge available to everyone, not just the spiritually elite; that he takes into account the welfare of all the people of the world, not just the spiritual few; that he dives down into the mud, rather than sitting in the Himalayas in serene, pure obscurity. Thanks for the discussion and commentary, Michael. Very helpful. My only comment is on the above. He may not have made things available just to the spiritually elite, but he certainly has restricted most of what he has offered in recent years to the financially elite. For that he loses compassion brownie points. A while back you sent me a list of your posts, with post numbers, so that I could include them in the FFL index I was working on. I gave up on that project because it was too time-consuming and instead started an index that everyone could work on. I started adding your posts to it. If you would like to continue, it's at http://tinyurl.com/9olk9 Thanks. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Ramana Maharshi's 4 Technologies of Evolution (was: The New Advaitins)
coshlnx [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: re: previous post asking about the new Advaitins and if there's anything negative that can be said about them. I call them Neo- Advaitins. Most are non-progressivists in the traditions of Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta Maharaj. HWL Poonja, a disciple of RM, has spawned a sizeable brood of these creatures. There are numerous links to other Neo-Advaitins such as Gangaji, Ramesh Balsekar, etc. HWL Poonja's message is that you should give up all techniques and just BE! As you might expect, he doesn't approve of TM, since TM is accompanied by a progressivist orientation (which I agree with); which arises in the context of talking about the physiological counterpart to Enlightenment. That is, culturing the nervous system is the physical unstressing counterpart to linear evolution. Year 1,2,3...of practicing TM brings on a greater accumulation of benefits of a progressive nature: more global awareness, less stress, etc; and, although it's quite possible for somebody to become Enlightened immediately in the presence of somebody like Ramana Maharshi (as HWL Poonja was apparently, according to his own testimony), it's statistically unlikely. An alternative explanation for the anti-technique viewpoints of the Neo-Advaitins is simply that they are total dunces when it comes to the technology of evolution. Dear Coshlnx, Here's an outline of Ramana Maharshi's take on technologies of evolution. What I get from reading it is that: a. Although labeled as an advaitist by some, he DOES seem to be what you call a progressivist (recognizing the value of meditation, etc.); b. He does NOT seem to be a dunce about these technologies. See what you think. Here is Ramana Maharshi's famous statement about how he interacts on four levels with someone who approaches him for spiritual guidance. He says [I will paraphrase]: I (Ramana) start with the highest first. * LEVEL 1 * I give them a mahavakya, a direct statement of Truth (such as You are That). Occasionally, that is all someone needs - just that verifica- tion that they've arrived. That removes their doubt, their restless- ness, and establishes them in peace. They stop being a seeker, be- cause they realize that they have found. But MOST seekers are not ready for that, so for them I back off one step, to level 2. * LEVEL 2 * So I (Ramana) do Self-inquiry (Atma-vichara = inquiry into the Self, At- man) with them. This is based on the vedantic question Who am I? I lead them to peel back the layers, to look back behind everything, to shine their awareness deeper and deeper, until they arrive at a level- less level where there is nothing deeper, nothing prior. Then their awareness rests in itself (has curved back on its Self), and they have that flash where understanding catches up to experience. This approach is useful for some ripe seekers. And once they've understood that they are the Self, through Self-in- quiry, then level 1 above (the mahavakya) is useful and effective as the final stroke. If any doubt arises as to the fullness or finality of that flash of understanding, the mahavakya sets that straight. Even though everybody IS the Self - always has been, always will be - not everybody has the clarity of awareness, the expansion of the con- scious capacity of the mind, to realize the Self. For the Self to curve back on its Self, it has to travel through a vehicle, a mind and ner- vous system, and that vehicle may be either cloudy or clear. It's path from here to here is by going though there, through the field of boundaries. Once one has cleared that path, Self-inquiry is useful, is necessary, for the goal to be appreciated. But many are not ready for Self-inquiry, so for them I back off one more step, to level 3 * LEVEL 3 * So I (Ramana) recommend them to meditate, to purify the intellect, to expand the conscious capacity of the mind, to unclog the nervous system. This approach is useful for many seekers, especially in this age of im- purity, of gripping delusion. By doing this (meditation), one day they will naturally be ready for that moment of Self-inquiry (level 2 above), that moment when they realize that they are the Self, then the shift happens, and that will lead to ripeness for the mahavakya (level 1) and final peace. [Michael's commentary: This is where many long-term TM meditators are at, in my experience. They have had so much meditative experience that they are There. But they hold onto the belief that they are still on the path, due to so many years or decades of commitment to seeking. So many meditators that I've met have made it, are Self-realized, but they are mistakenly waiting for some special experience, or some relative sign or symptom, that they've gotten into their head will be the special sign of en- lightenment. They believe that experience, which is in the relative, which comes and goes, will
Re: [FairfieldLife] Ramana Maharshi's 4 Technologies of Evolution (was: The New Advaitins)
On Jan 3, 2006, at 1:16 PM, Michael Dean Goodman wrote:So I (Ramana) do Self-inquiry (Atma-vichara = inquiry into the Self, At- man) with them. Ah, he does it WITH them. There it is. There's the transmission of the state. That's his "pointing out instruction".Thanks for sharing that.Did he really call these "technologies"? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Ramana Maharshi's 4 Technologies of Evolution (was: The New Advaitins)
--- Michael Dean Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Michael's commentary: This is where many long-term TM meditators are at, in my experience. They have had so much meditative experience that they are There. But they hold onto the belief that they are still on the path, due to so many years or decades of commitment to seeking. So many meditators that I've met have made it, are Self-realized, but they are mistakenly waiting for some special experience, or some relative sign or symptom, that they've gotten into their head will be the special sign of en- lightenment. They believe that experience, which is in the relative, which comes and goes, will somehow herald the non-experience, non-rel- ative, continuum of the Self. Self-inquiry, for just a few minutes, reveals to them that they are There. They laugh, they cry, they re- joice to see how simple it is and how complicated they were making it. It is a remarkable moment to witness, when understanding catches up to experience and becomes whole. Great post, Michael. Just wanted to add my two rupees. All the decades of meditation lead to incredible sattva, but not yet enlightenment because of the thinnest thread of attachment to a concept of enlightenment (i.e., enlightenment is some thing/experience). I believe this is why so many longtime TMer's just explode open when they have conntact with other gurus. If I was to critique MMY, it would only be his lack of direct contact with us, the rank-and-file meditators. Maharishi! We needed you around, man! We needed that darshan of Brahman. __ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
