[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 9:27 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.comwrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: People with access to the tape library are not selected for courage and insight. HaHa Quote of the week ! This fellow obviously has no idea as to who has the key to the original tapes ! Indeed. Yesterday I came across this wonderful place to shop for DVDs and the like call Pirate Bay (as opposed to Botany Bay, where I think I spent a couple centuries). Man, it's a good thing I have a lot of computers and fast Internet access. Do you know how long it's going to take for me to upload the original tape library to Pirate Bay? INteresting that you call downloading bittorrents shopping. Lawson
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 9:27 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.comwrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: People with access to the tape library are not selected for courage and insight. HaHa Quote of the week ! This fellow obviously has no idea as to who has the key to the original tapes ! Indeed. Yesterday I came across this wonderful place to shop for DVDs and the like call Pirate Bay (as opposed to Botany Bay, where I think I spent a couple centuries). Man, it's a good thing I have a lot of computers and fast Internet access. Do you know how long it's going to take for me to upload the original tape library to Pirate Bay?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: People with access to the tape library are not selected for courage and insight. HaHa Quote of the week ! This fellow obviously has no idea as to who has the key to the original tapes !
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 waybac...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willytex@ wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: In the Western Regional Office, I was in charge of the tapes to be sent out to centers for resi- dence courses and advanced lectures... Turq probably meant 'film' instead of 'tape', since recording to video tape for SCI didn't happen until the invention of the composite U-Matic by SONY in 1971. The first consumer videocassette recorders were launched in 1971. Apparently most of SCI was recorded on film in the early days and on videotape later, after 1972. But this is reaching way back into the mist of time, so I'm not sure. There were some Marshy TV stations back then around the L.A. area - Turq might know more about this. But I had a little 16MM Bolex back then, and I think I was one of the first people to record the Marshy on film. When Jerry Jarvis saw my film he wanted to create a whole series and call them 'SCI. BillyG may know something more about those early times. You must mean something other than SCI here. The Science of Creative Intelligence wasn't offered until 1972. Or are you just compressing time here? Read more: Subject: Re: Question-willytex From: Ken Hassman Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: 2000/01/30 http://tinyurl.com/a4bbjh I think the SCI course was filmed or recorded on video in Fiuggi in May of 1972. THe TV station in LA was called KSCI. When the TMO finally sold it, I think they made a great deal of money since the value of the small stations had increased substantially over those years. Yep. I remember going over there (West LA) the night they went on the air. I was working and living at the Sunset Blvd. center at the time. We really thought we were on the cup of taking over the world!
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it---KSCI TV station
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willytex@ wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: In the Western Regional Office, I was in charge of the tapes to be sent out to centers for resi- dence courses and advanced lectures... Turq probably meant 'film' instead of 'tape', since recording to video tape for SCI didn't happen until the invention of the composite U-Matic by SONY in 1971. The first consumer videocassette recorders were launched in 1971. Apparently most of SCI was recorded on film in the early days and on videotape later, after 1972. But this is reaching way back into the mist of time, so I'm not sure. There were some Marshy TV stations back then around the L.A. area - Turq might know more about this. But I had a little 16MM Bolex back then, and I think I was one of the first people to record the Marshy on film. When Jerry Jarvis saw my film he wanted to create a whole series and call them 'SCI. BillyG may know something more about those early times. You must mean something other than SCI here. The Science of Creative Intelligence wasn't offered until 1972. Or are you just compressing time here? Read more: Subject: Re: Question-willytex From: Ken Hassman Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Dear Friends, Somthing I can share about KSCI, since I ran the crew that built the transmitter on top of the mountain, the San Burnadino mountains. It was a lot of fun, but being metal we were shut down some days as fire danger was to hight to burn or weild. Anyway, when the inauguration of the station took place we, the crew was invited. we also got to go to the Merv Griffin shows. Anyway Maharishi came and the studio was invatation only but still full. Kinny Loggins came and sang a song run river run to MMY and it was a big hit of his at the time, but it took on a whole new meaning when he sang it, like wow man, this cosmic river flowing through everything. The TMO never really used KSCI to anywhere near it's potential, selling time to spanish language shows mostly. But, as licenses became much harder to get, the place became quite valuable just for that. So typical of MMY he sold it and of course many many millions on the deal. So many of the TMO's greatest places were sold, and they were going successfully for the movement, just MMY would rather have the money, which is of course my personal opinion. I do miss the good old days, but everything changes but me. Sincerely, Chris Date: 2000/01/30 http://tinyurl.com/a4bbjh I think the SCI course was filmed or recorded on video in Fiuggi in May of 1972. THe TV station in LA was called KSCI. When the TMO finally sold it, I think they made a great deal of money since the value of the small stations had increased substantially over those years. Yep. I remember going over there (West LA) the night they went on the air. I was working and living at the Sunset Blvd. center at the time. We really thought we were on the cup of taking over the world!
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: I predict that the TMO as we know it will reinvent itself. That Doctor Bevan Morris and Dr. John Hagelin will retire and quickly thereafter no longer be mentioned in the TMO. That thereafter, once the sycophant fools Maharishi had to suffer are gone, the rajas will increasingly take a cue from Ram Nader and speak with less exuberance, less florid speech and for shorter times. We all wish. It will take time. In the natural way of things there must be factions within the Vlodrop court and tension between the idealists and the pragmatists. Currently Bevan Hagelin in the idealist corner have the upper hand, with the pragmatists going along with their decrees in spite of private reservations. We know that Nader wants to cut the course fees by a large margin, but it hasn't happened, presumably because the Bevan-Haglinist faction is still holding out for a phase transition. In 5 to 10 years time the inevitable consequences of pissing off most of the people in the movement will become more apparent. There will be almost no new staff at MUM to take over when the current staff retire. No staff, no students and therefore MUM as an academic institution will have to fold. If CERN doesn't find the particles it's looking for then unified field theories will be very shaky and the intellectual justification for extracting large sums of money from people and sending it away to feed a ravenous international will be open to question. Nader might have a good tone, but his authority rests on ideas which are obviously trash. The movement can never have academic credibility while it promotes those ideas. Therefore the whole academic aspect of the movement will simply vanish. The Vlodrop court, like any regal court, requires a large population of obedient peasants to keep it going. The next generation of TMers isn't going to be large enough to maintain a regal court. The collapse of Vlodrop will simply follow the standard form set out in histories. There will be coups and counter coups as people fight over a diminishing pot of money. The Indians will break away as soon as they realize that the western empire can't support their lavish lifestyles and has no power to stop them. What happens after that will depend on who has the keys to the tape library. It could be that someone might have sufficient intelligence to realize that the good bits of Maharishi's message can only be saved from being dragged down with the collapse of Vlodrop's authority by copying the tape library as widely as possible. It could be that the extremist faction will do everything in their power to stop that happening, even unto burning the master tapes. People do go mad you know.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawke...@... wrote: It could be that someone might have sufficient intelligence to realize that the good bits of Maharishi's message can only be saved from being dragged down with the collapse of Vlodrop's authority by copying the tape library as widely as possible. It could be that the extremist faction will do everything in their power to stop that happening, even unto burning the master tapes. People do go mad you know. Just for the record, this has already happened many times, but with Maharishi's approval, and at his direction. In the Western Regional Office, I was in charge of the tapes to be sent out to centers for resi- dence courses and advanced lectures. Periodically, we would get a message from International Staff that one of them was being recalled. When that happened, we had to call all the centers and try to get them to send us any copies they had of these tapes, even if they had purchased them and not borrowed them from us. We were told to promise them that the tapes would be replaced with a new one in time. (Suffice it to say that never happened.) When all the copies of the tapes were sent back to Switzerland, I have it on good authority (the Regional Coordinator I worked for watching it happen) that the master tapes were destroyed. The thing they were trying to perform revisionist history on at the time fell into two categories. The first was tapes on which Maharishi said some- thing that could be construed to suggest that TM was a religion. (The court cases were still going on at this time and they didn't want any of these tapes subpoenaed.) The second, interestingly enough given recent threads on FFL, was any tapes on which Maharishi promised enlightenment as a result of doing TM, and within a fixed, promised period of time. After the 5-8 year period had clearly expired with no one being enlightened, Maharishi's and the TMO's first impulse was to make it appear as if the 5-8 year claim was never made. I heard that a similar recall was made of tapes distributed during the early days of the TM-siddhi program (during and prior to the first few courses) that promised explicitly that people would learn to levitate. I was on my TM-siddhi course at the time, however, and didn't see this one first-hand. The others I did. This is just presented as history, to show that your scenario is not unlikely in the least. The precedent for it was set by Maharishi himself during his lifetime.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
I remember the first tape recall that you mention, in the mid-1970's, prior to the release of the boxed tape of Humboldt lectures. Is that right that the tapes were actually destroyed? If so that is gross. Interestingly, it would make the contents of the mp3 recordings which are now circulating via www.spirualregeneration.org news even to people at TMO HQ, no wonder they are popular. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: It could be that someone might have sufficient intelligence to realize that the good bits of Maharishi's message can only be saved from being dragged down with the collapse of Vlodrop's authority by copying the tape library as widely as possible. It could be that the extremist faction will do everything in their power to stop that happening, even unto burning the master tapes. People do go mad you know. Just for the record, this has already happened many times, but with Maharishi's approval, and at his direction. In the Western Regional Office, I was in charge of the tapes to be sent out to centers for resi- dence courses and advanced lectures. Periodically, we would get a message from International Staff that one of them was being recalled. When that happened, we had to call all the centers and try to get them to send us any copies they had of these tapes, even if they had purchased them and not borrowed them from us. We were told to promise them that the tapes would be replaced with a new one in time. (Suffice it to say that never happened.) When all the copies of the tapes were sent back to Switzerland, I have it on good authority (the Regional Coordinator I worked for watching it happen) that the master tapes were destroyed. The thing they were trying to perform revisionist history on at the time fell into two categories. The first was tapes on which Maharishi said some- thing that could be construed to suggest that TM was a religion. (The court cases were still going on at this time and they didn't want any of these tapes subpoenaed.) The second, interestingly enough given recent threads on FFL, was any tapes on which Maharishi promised enlightenment as a result of doing TM, and within a fixed, promised period of time. After the 5-8 year period had clearly expired with no one being enlightened, Maharishi's and the TMO's first impulse was to make it appear as if the 5-8 year claim was never made. I heard that a similar recall was made of tapes distributed during the early days of the TM-siddhi program (during and prior to the first few courses) that promised explicitly that people would learn to levitate. I was on my TM-siddhi course at the time, however, and didn't see this one first-hand. The others I did. This is just presented as history, to show that your scenario is not unlikely in the least. The precedent for it was set by Maharishi himself during his lifetime.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
I remember the first tape recall that you mention, in the mid-1970's, prior to the release of the boxed tapes of Humboldt lectures. Is that right that the tapes were actually destroyed? If so that is gross. Interestingly, it would make the contents of the mp3 recordings which are now circulating via http://www.spiritualregeneration.org news even to people at TMO HQ, no wonder they are so popular. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: It could be that someone might have sufficient intelligence to realize that the good bits of Maharishi's message can only be saved from being dragged down with the collapse of Vlodrop's authority by copying the tape library as widely as possible. It could be that the extremist faction will do everything in their power to stop that happening, even unto burning the master tapes. People do go mad you know. Just for the record, this has already happened many times, but with Maharishi's approval, and at his direction. In the Western Regional Office, I was in charge of the tapes to be sent out to centers for resi- dence courses and advanced lectures. Periodically, we would get a message from International Staff that one of them was being recalled. When that happened, we had to call all the centers and try to get them to send us any copies they had of these tapes, even if they had purchased them and not borrowed them from us. We were told to promise them that the tapes would be replaced with a new one in time. (Suffice it to say that never happened.) When all the copies of the tapes were sent back to Switzerland, I have it on good authority (the Regional Coordinator I worked for watching it happen) that the master tapes were destroyed. The thing they were trying to perform revisionist history on at the time fell into two categories. The first was tapes on which Maharishi said some- thing that could be construed to suggest that TM was a religion. (The court cases were still going on at this time and they didn't want any of these tapes subpoenaed.) The second, interestingly enough given recent threads on FFL, was any tapes on which Maharishi promised enlightenment as a result of doing TM, and within a fixed, promised period of time. After the 5-8 year period had clearly expired with no one being enlightened, Maharishi's and the TMO's first impulse was to make it appear as if the 5-8 year claim was never made. I heard that a similar recall was made of tapes distributed during the early days of the TM-siddhi program (during and prior to the first few courses) that promised explicitly that people would learn to levitate. I was on my TM-siddhi course at the time, however, and didn't see this one first-hand. The others I did. This is just presented as history, to show that your scenario is not unlikely in the least. The precedent for it was set by Maharishi himself during his lifetime.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandp...@... wrote: I remember the first tape recall that you mention, in the mid-1970's, prior to the release of the boxed tapes of Humboldt lectures. Is that right that the tapes were actually destroyed? If so that is gross. Interestingly, it would make the contents of the mp3 recordings which are now circulating via http://www.spiritualregeneration.org news even to people at TMO HQ, no wonder they are so popular. The fact that these MP3s exist at all is IMO due to the way that these recalls were handled. In the Regional Office we were clearly told to promise all the TM teachers that when they sent us the recalled tapes that they had paid for with their own money, they would be replaced with new tapes as soon as they were released, or that they would be compensated for what they originally paid for them. That never happened. So, once bitten, twice shy. In the future when we sent out a recall notice, many of the TM teachers lied and said that they didn't own any of the recalled tapes. They kept them instead. That is almost certainly where many of these tapes on the site you speak of came from. I've seen this same phenomenon in several different spiritual traditions since. It is *not* just TM- specific. But it seems to me to go hand in hand with the glorification of subjective experience that one finds in enlightenment traditions. If you believe that your current state of consciousness somehow defines reality more than reality does, you tend to believe that you can reinvent reality and change the past. I saw Rama - Frederick Lenz try to do this and get nailed for it on the TV show Dateline. He claimed to be a successful businessman whose money came from his software businesses. The reporter did a few minutes of research and proved that the claim was not true. He then asked Rama on camera to name a few of the Fortune 500 companies that he claimed were using his software products. He couldn't think of a single name. Some CEO, eh? :-) To some extent I associate this belief that you can reinvent history with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and I associate some aspects of that dis- order with popular spiritual teachers. They exist in a cocoon of Yes Men, in which literally every- thing they say is accepted at face value *for no other reason than that they said it*. Spend a few years in an environment like this, and you'd start to believe that you really *can* reinvent history. You do it every day, and your followers fall for it. Personally, I think that a more honest approach, if one were a spiritual teacher, would be to preserve and make available *everything* one said along the way. Even the mistakes. *Especially* the mistakes. Yeah, I know that this would invalidate the dogma that the enlightened are perfect and can't *make* mistakes, but I don't believe that anyway. And to get caught trying to practice revisionist history over the mistakes only compounds them. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: It could be that someone might have sufficient intelligence to realize that the good bits of Maharishi's message can only be saved from being dragged down with the collapse of Vlodrop's authority by copying the tape library as widely as possible. It could be that the extremist faction will do everything in their power to stop that happening, even unto burning the master tapes. People do go mad you know. Just for the record, this has already happened many times, but with Maharishi's approval, and at his direction. In the Western Regional Office, I was in charge of the tapes to be sent out to centers for resi- dence courses and advanced lectures. Periodically, we would get a message from International Staff that one of them was being recalled. When that happened, we had to call all the centers and try to get them to send us any copies they had of these tapes, even if they had purchased them and not borrowed them from us. We were told to promise them that the tapes would be replaced with a new one in time. (Suffice it to say that never happened.) When all the copies of the tapes were sent back to Switzerland, I have it on good authority (the Regional Coordinator I worked for watching it happen) that the master tapes were destroyed. The thing they were trying to perform revisionist history on at the time fell into two categories. The first was tapes on which Maharishi said some- thing that could be construed to suggest that TM was a religion. (The court cases were still going on at this time and they didn't want any of these tapes subpoenaed.) The second, interestingly enough given recent threads on FFL, was any tapes on which Maharishi promised enlightenment as a result of doing TM, and within a fixed, promised period of
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
As to the provenance of the tapes that have surfaced on mp3, the very oldest of those of Maharishi, and one of the most revealing was actually discovered on a long overlooked cassette tucked away in someone's belongings. Parts of the tape were discovered to have been recorded back-to-front (!) but thanks to the wonders of modern technology it was flipped and now all can hear Maharishi letting the kittens out to scamper about. Ironically, in spite of the fact that the contents contradict his later statements it makes for possibly the best and most compelling intro talk I ever heard him give. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: I remember the first tape recall that you mention, in the mid-1970's, prior to the release of the boxed tapes of Humboldt lectures. Is that right that the tapes were actually destroyed? If so that is gross. Interestingly, it would make the contents of the mp3 recordings which are now circulating via http://www.spiritualregeneration.org news even to people at TMO HQ, no wonder they are so popular. The fact that these MP3s exist at all is IMO due to the way that these recalls were handled. In the Regional Office we were clearly told to promise all the TM teachers that when they sent us the recalled tapes that they had paid for with their own money, they would be replaced with new tapes as soon as they were released, or that they would be compensated for what they originally paid for them. That never happened. So, once bitten, twice shy. In the future when we sent out a recall notice, many of the TM teachers lied and said that they didn't own any of the recalled tapes. They kept them instead. That is almost certainly where many of these tapes on the site you speak of came from. I've seen this same phenomenon in several different spiritual traditions since. It is *not* just TM- specific. But it seems to me to go hand in hand with the glorification of subjective experience that one finds in enlightenment traditions. If you believe that your current state of consciousness somehow defines reality more than reality does, you tend to believe that you can reinvent reality and change the past. I saw Rama - Frederick Lenz try to do this and get nailed for it on the TV show Dateline. He claimed to be a successful businessman whose money came from his software businesses. The reporter did a few minutes of research and proved that the claim was not true. He then asked Rama on camera to name a few of the Fortune 500 companies that he claimed were using his software products. He couldn't think of a single name. Some CEO, eh? :-) To some extent I associate this belief that you can reinvent history with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and I associate some aspects of that dis- order with popular spiritual teachers. They exist in a cocoon of Yes Men, in which literally every- thing they say is accepted at face value *for no other reason than that they said it*. Spend a few years in an environment like this, and you'd start to believe that you really *can* reinvent history. You do it every day, and your followers fall for it. Personally, I think that a more honest approach, if one were a spiritual teacher, would be to preserve and make available *everything* one said along the way. Even the mistakes. *Especially* the mistakes. Yeah, I know that this would invalidate the dogma that the enlightened are perfect and can't *make* mistakes, but I don't believe that anyway. And to get caught trying to practice revisionist history over the mistakes only compounds them. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: It could be that someone might have sufficient intelligence to realize that the good bits of Maharishi's message can only be saved from being dragged down with the collapse of Vlodrop's authority by copying the tape library as widely as possible. It could be that the extremist faction will do everything in their power to stop that happening, even unto burning the master tapes. People do go mad you know. Just for the record, this has already happened many times, but with Maharishi's approval, and at his direction. In the Western Regional Office, I was in charge of the tapes to be sent out to centers for resi- dence courses and advanced lectures. Periodically, we would get a message from International Staff that one of them was being recalled. When that happened, we had to call all the centers and try to get them to send us any copies they had of these tapes, even if they had purchased them and not borrowed them from us. We were told to promise them that the tapes would be replaced with a new one
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: I predict that the TMO as we know it will reinvent itself. That Doctor Bevan Morris and Dr. John Hagelin will retire and quickly thereafter no longer be mentioned in the TMO. That thereafter, once the sycophant fools Maharishi had to suffer are gone, the rajas will increasingly take a cue from Ram Nader and speak with less exuberance, less florid speech and for shorter times. If Bevan and John are replaced, they will be replaced with more simply speaking people. People who take their cue in presenting themselves from Ram Nadir. Bevan and Hagelin will never retire. Their world, their highly inflated egos are completely based on this role they play as tmo world saviors (sexual conquests being a distant 2nd for their egos). MMY didn't have to suffer them, he made them, he promoted them, he put them where they are and loved how they mimic him. To not see this plain fact is to be in denial about MMY. Bulletins will contain less gold. The TMO will take less credit for world affairs and jump in less to save the world with just some more sidhas on Wall Street or in Fairfield. Dark colored suits will once again be in style in the TMO. Fresh, new blood will be recruited from the sidha community. Established and demonstrated talent in business. Heaven is Descending will no longer be the IA theme song and the Maharishi Channel will quietly quash the worship of gods and goddesses. Maybe but who cares? Maybe the US and India tmos slowly divide with the US becoming more secular, but they'll both still be based on MMY worship. Maybe what you're saying is the US will go back to remembering MMY as he was in his simple secular past of the 60s and emulating that, not the reality of the past 20 yrs. That's possible, but I don't see anyone to lead that. Maharishi gave instructions that these and many other things be done in the fullness of time. Again, why the fear of facing the truth about MMY. You believe MMY spent every hour of his life promoting one thing and one group of people only to have secretly given instructions to do the opposite after he died? What weird things people believe to keep up personality cults.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
Guy, is a good quick reading of the tea leafs. In watching, the Bevanistic-Haglinist faction are not joined at the hip. Yes, both are idealistic but Morris is the still powerful bull dogmatist inside and Hagelin calculated moving TM practically forward outside in a secular way. Each with a gravitational pull and attracting their people to them. And yes as Boo points out, there is the Indian family movement but also add in to the equation the Europeans. As with the recent Subpoenas for Beven to a Federal court, more likely his portfolio will get limited as he gets more subps against him for other things. He has been in the middle handling a lot of things with Maharishi for the last number of years he'll proly end up being unable to travel outside of certain countries, like Maharishi. Would probably be an excellent prime subpoena to the US Senate Finance Committee for collecting testimony over the inner workings of 'charitable non- profit educational institutions' moving money around. More likely he'll be seen less in America and get exiled to someplace like, Australia. Or a log cabin on some property in Holland. Or they'll build him a special place in the middle of India where TM-tru- believers can pilgimage to him there. He is a mighty big guy that will be around somehow. Hagelin by nature will give it a good go for a while. If there becomes too much Raja baggage to carry around, then he'll probably say 'F-it' and go be a famous talking-head personality in his own right. In the meantime, they have a name out in the marketplace that is theirs to use somehow. So many of them have presided over the decline of the TM-movement, and now it is theirs. The good, the bad and the ugly of TM too. Is a tough thing to get given their reputation on the internet and the immediacy transparency that the internet gives compared to before. Is a different world that way to work in. There are a lot of people interested in how they do with it. To succeed they will probably come to doing their business differently from the way it was done in the past, of necessity. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawke...@... wrote: We all wish. It will take time. In the natural way of things there must be factions within the Vlodrop court and tension between the idealists and the pragmatists. Currently Bevan Hagelin in the idealist corner have the upper hand, with the pragmatists going along with their decrees in spite of private reservations. We know that Nader wants to cut the course fees by a large margin, but it hasn't happened, presumably because the Bevan-Haglinist faction is still holding out for a phase transition. In 5 to 10 years time the inevitable consequences of pissing off most of the people in the movement will become more apparent. There will be almost no new staff at MUM to take over when the current staff retire. No staff, no students and therefore MUM as an academic institution will have to fold. If CERN doesn't find the particles it's looking for then unified field theories will be very shaky and the intellectual justification for extracting large sums of money from people and sending it away to feed a ravenous international will be open to question. Nader might have a good tone, but his authority rests on ideas which are obviously trash. The movement can never have academic credibility while it promotes those ideas. Therefore the whole academic aspect of the movement will simply vanish. The Vlodrop court, like any regal court, requires a large population of obedient peasants to keep it going. The next generation of TMers isn't going to be large enough to maintain a regal court. The collapse of Vlodrop will simply follow the standard form set out in histories. There will be coups and counter coups as people fight over a diminishing pot of money. The Indians will break away as soon as they realize that the western empire can't support their lavish lifestyles and has no power to stop them. What happens after that will depend on who has the keys to the tape library. It could be that someone might have sufficient intelligence to realize that the good bits of Maharishi's message can only be saved from being dragged down with the collapse of Vlodrop's authority by copying the tape library as widely as possible. It could be that the extremist faction will do everything in their power to stop that happening, even unto burning the master tapes. People do go mad you know. om
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: snip To some extent I associate this belief that you can reinvent history with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and I associate some aspects of that dis- order with popular spiritual teachers. They exist in a cocoon of Yes Men, in which literally every- thing they say is accepted at face value *for no other reason than that they said it*. Spend a few years in an environment like this, and you'd start to believe that you really *can* reinvent history. You do it every day, and your followers fall for it. Interesting that Barry associates narcissistic personality disorder with reinventing history, given that the latter is his specialty.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: Guy, is a good quick reading of the tea leafs. In watching, the Bevanistic-Haglinist faction are not joined at the hip. Yes, both are idealistic but Morris is the still powerful bull dogmatist inside and Hagelin calculated moving TM practically forward outside in a secular way. Each with a gravitational pull and attracting their people to them. And yes as Boo points out, there is the Indian family movement but also add in to the equation the Europeans. Yes, I was just lumping Bevan-Hagelin together for convenience of expression rather than correctness in analysis. Hagelin is the brighter of the two and certainly inclined to be more practical in his outlook. Though he'll be in deep doodoo if CERN don't find super-symmetric particles and all the UF charts have to be recalled. Bevan relishes the role of authoritarian dictator and for the time being is the alpha male at Vlodrop whom all the others take their cues from. Nutjobs like Schiffgens gravitate to Bevan, and the camp komandant types like Konhaus also feel more attracted to the role of hatchet men for Bevan. But the brick wall cometh. At some point the decades of work Bevan co have put into flushing the goodwill of the movement down the toilet will show their results and ideals will make contact with reality. How things fall apart makes for interesting speculation and it depends a lot on personalities and courtly intrigues. But fall apart it must because there isn't going to be a large enough population of obedient TMers to keep the regal court going. Whether Bevan ever gets to wear handcuffs is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that someone should have the sense to get the contents of the tape library out and into the public domain before the nutcase faction wreck it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawke...@... wrote: Bevan relishes the role of authoritarian dictator and for the time being is the alpha male at Vlodrop whom all the others take their cues from. Nutjobs like Schiffgens gravitate to Bevan, and the camp komandant types like Konhaus also feel more attracted to the role of hatchet men for Bevan. snip How things fall apart makes for interesting speculation and it depends a lot on personalities and courtly intrigues. And from where do you get this nonsense ? Ah, sorry, forgot: speculation
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
And from where do you get this nonsense ? History. That's how these things typically pan out. The present TMO is an authoritarian regime grafted on top of a collection of well meaning and oftimes very good people. All authoritarian regimes require a large pool of submissive fearful people. They can be quite stable for a long time. But only as long as people fear them. While they last people who are good at the authoritarian thing will rise to the top. We know there are quite a few bad apples in the movement who genuinely enjoy the exercise of power over other people. When the regime crumbles those people fall quite a long way. That's how it always has been and always will be. There is very little real affection for the present crop of leaders in the TMO because they mostly look after their own interests rather than the interests of those below them. Once the number of people willing to take on the role of submissive fearful peasant drops below a critical value the regal court can't maintain itself. On present form there will not be enough new entrants into the TMO who will also accept the role of submissive peasant to keep the regal court going. Therefore at some point in the future it will have to crumble. That much is probably not open to speculation since it's a simple extrapolation of where the TMO is now, the direction it's heading and knowing from history what comes next. The speculative part is how people will behave when the crunch comes. Who will gang up with whom to fight over the remains. Most of us will be dead by that time so we'll never get to find out. But the transition from this set of rulers to the next generation of TMO leaders is likely to be turbulent to say the least. If the TMO crumbles without the contents of the tape library being duplicated into the public domain then Maharishi's knowledge will be lost. Since it is inevitable that the present structure will crumble the long term survival of a complete record of Maharishi's lectures will depend on the courage and insight of a small number of people with access to the tape library. People with access to the tape library are not selected for courage and insight.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
--Brahmasthan, the TMO's Spiritual Center of America, will crumble with the crumbs being picked up by the Mormons, who will establish their own New Jerusalem in Missouri.: Joseph Smith received revelation in July of 1831 that the New Jerusalem and a temple would be built in Independence, Missouri and that the gathering of Israel would begin (Doctrine and Covenants 57:1- 3). Since the term Zion also refers to the pure in heart, when Christ comes again there could be many places in the world that would be referred to as Zion, because the people have accepted the gospel and follow the commandments, but the New Jerusalem is to be a center place or capital city for the pure in heart. The building of the New Jerusalem and the rebuilding of Jerusalem must happen before the second coming of Christ. A proclamation from the Twelve Apostles in 1845 states: He will assemble the Natives, the remnants of Joseph in America; and make them a great, and strong, and powerful nation: and he will civilize and enlighten them, and will establish a holy city, and temple and seat of government among them, which shall be called Zion. And there shall be his tabernacle, his sanctuary, his throne, and seat of government for the whole continent of North and South America for ever. In short, it will be to the western hemisphere what Jerusalem will be to the easternÂ…. The city of Zion, with its sanctuary and priesthood, and the glorious fulness of the gospel, will constitute a standard which will put an end to jarring creeds and political wranglings, by uniting the republics, states, provinces, territories, nations, tribes, kindred, tongues, people and sects of North and South America in one great and common bond of brotherhood. Truth and knowledge shall make them free, and love cement their union. The Lord also shall be their king and their lawgiver; while wars shall cease and peace prevail for a thousand years. (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, ed. Daniel H. Ludlow, 1992, p.1010) Ultimately, however, the complete fulfillment of this prediction will not take place until Jesus Christ returns to reign, since He is the one whose right it is to rule from Zion. Retrieved from http://www.mormonwiki.com/New_Jerusalem; - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawke...@... wrote: And from where do you get this nonsense ? History. That's how these things typically pan out. The present TMO is an authoritarian regime grafted on top of a collection of well meaning and oftimes very good people. All authoritarian regimes require a large pool of submissive fearful people. They can be quite stable for a long time. But only as long as people fear them. While they last people who are good at the authoritarian thing will rise to the top. We know there are quite a few bad apples in the movement who genuinely enjoy the exercise of power over other people. When the regime crumbles those people fall quite a long way. That's how it always has been and always will be. There is very little real affection for the present crop of leaders in the TMO because they mostly look after their own interests rather than the interests of those below them. Once the number of people willing to take on the role of submissive fearful peasant drops below a critical value the regal court can't maintain itself. On present form there will not be enough new entrants into the TMO who will also accept the role of submissive peasant to keep the regal court going. Therefore at some point in the future it will have to crumble. That much is probably not open to speculation since it's a simple extrapolation of where the TMO is now, the direction it's heading and knowing from history what comes next. The speculative part is how people will behave when the crunch comes. Who will gang up with whom to fight over the remains. Most of us will be dead by that time so we'll never get to find out. But the transition from this set of rulers to the next generation of TMO leaders is likely to be turbulent to say the least. If the TMO crumbles without the contents of the tape library being duplicated into the public domain then Maharishi's knowledge will be lost. Since it is inevitable that the present structure will crumble the long term survival of a complete record of Maharishi's lectures will depend on the courage and insight of a small number of people with access to the tape library. People with access to the tape library are not selected for courage and insight.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawke...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Guy, is a good quick reading of the tea leafs. In watching, the Bevanistic-Haglinist faction are not joined at the hip. Yes, both are idealistic but Morris is the still powerful bull dogmatist inside and Hagelin calculated moving TM practically forward outside in a secular way. Each with a gravitational pull and attracting their people to them. And yes as Boo points out, there is the Indian family movement but also add in to the equation the Europeans. Yes, I was just lumping Bevan-Hagelin together for convenience of expression rather than correctness in analysis. Hagelin is the brighter of the two and certainly inclined to be more practical in his outlook. Though he'll be in deep doodoo if CERN don't find super-symmetric particles and all the UF charts have to be recalled. Bevan relishes the role of authoritarian dictator and for the time being is the alpha male at Vlodrop whom all the others take their cues from. Nutjobs like Schiffgens gravitate to Bevan, and the camp komandant types like Konhaus also feel more attracted to the role of hatchet men for Bevan. But the brick wall cometh. At some point the decades of work Bevan co have put into flushing the goodwill of the movement down the toilet will show their results and ideals will make contact with reality. How things fall apart makes for interesting speculation and it depends a lot on personalities and courtly intrigues. But fall apart it must because there isn't going to be a large enough population of obedient TMers to keep the regal court going. Whether Bevan ever gets to wear handcuffs is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that someone should have the sense to get the contents of the tape library out and into the public domain before the nutcase faction wreck it. The Vlodrop vs. Shrivasta/Varma clan tussle over funds is the one that is ultimately going to blow the roof off the whole shebang.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawke...@... wrote: People with access to the tape library are not selected for courage and insight. HaHa Quote of the week !
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
TurquoiseB wrote: In the Western Regional Office, I was in charge of the tapes to be sent out to centers for resi- dence courses and advanced lectures... Turq probably meant 'film' instead of 'tape', since recording to video tape for SCI didn't happen until the invention of the composite U-Matic by SONY in 1971. The first consumer videocassette recorders were launched in 1971. Apparently most of SCI was recorded on film in the early days and on videotape later, after 1972. But this is reaching way back into the mist of time, so I'm not sure. There were some Marshy TV stations back then around the L.A. area - Turq might know more about this. But I had a little 16MM Bolex back then, and I think I was one of the first people to record the Marshy on film. When Jerry Jarvis saw my film he wanted to create a whole series and call them 'SCI. BillyG may know something more about those early times. You must mean something other than SCI here. The Science of Creative Intelligence wasn't offered until 1972. Or are you just compressing time here? Read more: Subject: Re: Question-willytex From: Ken Hassman Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: 2000/01/30 http://tinyurl.com/a4bbjh
[FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willy...@... wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: In the Western Regional Office, I was in charge of the tapes to be sent out to centers for resi- dence courses and advanced lectures... Turq probably meant 'film' instead of 'tape', since recording to video tape for SCI didn't happen until the invention of the composite U-Matic by SONY in 1971. The first consumer videocassette recorders were launched in 1971. Apparently most of SCI was recorded on film in the early days and on videotape later, after 1972. But this is reaching way back into the mist of time, so I'm not sure. There were some Marshy TV stations back then around the L.A. area - Turq might know more about this. But I had a little 16MM Bolex back then, and I think I was one of the first people to record the Marshy on film. When Jerry Jarvis saw my film he wanted to create a whole series and call them 'SCI. BillyG may know something more about those early times. You must mean something other than SCI here. The Science of Creative Intelligence wasn't offered until 1972. Or are you just compressing time here? Read more: Subject: Re: Question-willytex From: Ken Hassman Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: 2000/01/30 http://tinyurl.com/a4bbjh I think the SCI course was filmed or recorded on video in Fiuggi in May of 1972. THe TV station in LA was called KSCI. When the TMO finally sold it, I think they made a great deal of money since the value of the small stations had increased substantially over those years.
