Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Are Buddhists Committing Genocide Again?
Neither does TM nor any meditation. The samskaras still play out and the person witnesses it. On 01/26/2015 10:48 AM, lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife] wrote: Typical mindfulness/concentrative practices are not claimed to make you moral or ethical. I always contrast such things with: Meditation is path to peace, Mozambique leader says http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill image http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Meditation is path to peace, Mozambique leader says http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Former Marxist guerrilla turned president spreads the word of the Beatles' guru to his ministers and the military. View on www.theguar... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Preview by Yahoo Can Meditation Change the World? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world image https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world Can Meditation Change the World? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world What would happen if every member of a country's government and army started to meditate? The amazing story of Mozambique's 'meditating president.' View on www.psychol... https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : http://salem-news.com/articles/july202012/burma-genocide-tk.php
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why Are Buddhists Committing Genocide Again?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Typical mindfulness/concentrative practices are not claimed to make you moral or ethical. And TM is? I always contrast such things with: You're drawing targets round arrows Lawson. The wonder of being able to affect the unified field is supposed to improve all aspects of life: The economy suffered serious setbacks when in 2000 and 2001 Mozambique was hit by floods which affected about a quarter of the population and destroyed much of its infrastructure. Furthermore, in 2002 a severe drought hit many central and southern parts of the country, including previously flood-stricken areas. Poverty remains widespread, with more than 50% of Mozambicans living on less than $1 a day. So, did he get his wish? Doesn't sound very good, but it's better than civil war but when do they ever last forever? Mozambique country profile http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13890416 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13890416 Mozambique country profile http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13890416 Provides an overview of Mozambique, including key events and facts about this former Portuguese colony and its recovery from a long civil war in the 19... View on www.bbc.co.uk http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13890416 Preview by Yahoo http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Meditation is path to peace, Mozambique leader says http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Former Marxist guerrilla turned president spreads the word of the Beatles' guru to his ministers and the military. View on www.theguar... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Preview by Yahoo Can Meditation Change the World? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world Can Meditation Change the World? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world What would happen if every member of a country's government and army started to meditate? The amazing story of Mozambique's 'meditating president.' View on www.psychol... https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : http://salem-news.com/articles/july202012/burma-genocide-tk.php http://salem-news.com/articles/july202012/burma-genocide-tk.php
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why Are Buddhists Committing Genocide Again?
Meditation and Moral Behaviour TM claims this, but it definitely does not appear to be true: look what it did to the people on FFL and even those that left to go to The Peak. My thoughts on this are the universe has no moral characteristics at all, and meditation TM or otherwise cannot provide such. Moral considerations are a mental overlay, a verbal program inserted into the mind, probably based on certain evolutionary considerations, such as cooperation, that allowed our species to flourish, and that survival of the family, the tribe, the city, the province or state, the nation, and the planet are prioritised in that order as mostly hard wiring in the brain. Genocide is a way of life for humans back even hundreds of thousands of years, if archaeology is any evidence. It is still going on today among people who meditate and those who do not. Most TM meditators are not in a situation where genocide would be a potential issue, except perhaps India, where Muslims and Hindus engage in fighting. Buddhists are not exceptions to the rule, and even TMer's have committed murder. I have never considered the TMO as a moral entity, rather the opposite. Contrasting violent behaviour with people who talk about meditation and peace is not the way to study the problem. In the absence of any verbal and cultural input concerning moral behaviour, would meditation make a group of humans less likely to commit genocide or otherwise disengage from violent crime? When we learn TM we also get a barrel full of verbiage concerning peaceful behaviour c., and there are a lot of peacemaking peer related mood-making cues in the movement to adjust in that direction. But what would happen if you got Boko Harum to meditate, would they cease their relentless killing, if in teaching them, they got no verbiage or cues about moral behaviour? Or would they just overjoyed that in 'becoming more effective' they could kill more each day, and perhaps get a few extra sex slaves in the bargain, and not be so tired at the end of the day after all that invigourating activity? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Typical mindfulness/concentrative practices are not claimed to make you moral or ethical. I always contrast such things with: Meditation is path to peace, Mozambique leader says http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Meditation is path to peace, Mozambique leader says http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Former Marxist guerrilla turned president spreads the word of the Beatles' guru to his ministers and the military. View on www.theguar... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Preview by Yahoo Can Meditation Change the World? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world Can Meditation Change the World? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world What would happen if every member of a country's government and army started to meditate? The amazing story of Mozambique's 'meditating president.' View on www.psychol... https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : http://salem-news.com/articles/july202012/burma-genocide-tk.php http://salem-news.com/articles/july202012/burma-genocide-tk.php
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why Are Buddhists Committing Genocide Again?
Typical mindfulness/concentrative practices are not claimed to make you moral or ethical. I always contrast such things with: Meditation is path to peace, Mozambique leader says http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Meditation is path to peace, Mozambique leader says http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Former Marxist guerrilla turned president spreads the word of the Beatles' guru to his ministers and the military. View on www.theguar... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Preview by Yahoo Can Meditation Change the World? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world Can Meditation Change the World? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world What would happen if every member of a country's government and army started to meditate? The amazing story of Mozambique's 'meditating president.' View on www.psychol... https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : http://salem-news.com/articles/july202012/burma-genocide-tk.php http://salem-news.com/articles/july202012/burma-genocide-tk.php
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why Are Buddhists Committing Genocide Again?
Yes, but as per your other post [to Xeno], this is not a suitably designed study, so the results are scientifically meaningless. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : I was referring mostly to the effects of TM on the president and the people who were meditating and how their meditation rpactice appeared to affect their behavior, not the Maharishi Effect. And in fact, TM IS supposed to improve moral behavior in an absolutist sense of making one's behavior more in-tune with the laws of nature. That isn't a well-defined phrase, but greater common good might be a good first-order approximation. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Typical mindfulness/concentrative practices are not claimed to make you moral or ethical. And TM is? I always contrast such things with: You're drawing targets round arrows Lawson. The wonder of being able to affect the unified field is supposed to improve all aspects of life: The economy suffered serious setbacks when in 2000 and 2001 Mozambique was hit by floods which affected about a quarter of the population and destroyed much of its infrastructure. Furthermore, in 2002 a severe drought hit many central and southern parts of the country, including previously flood-stricken areas. Poverty remains widespread, with more than 50% of Mozambicans living on less than $1 a day. So, did he get his wish? Doesn't sound very good, but it's better than civil war but when do they ever last forever? Mozambique country profile http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13890416 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13890416 Mozambique country profile http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13890416 Provides an overview of Mozambique, including key events and facts about this former Portuguese colony and its recovery from a long civil war in the 19... View on www.bbc.co.uk http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13890416 Preview by Yahoo http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Meditation is path to peace, Mozambique leader says http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Former Marxist guerrilla turned president spreads the word of the Beatles' guru to his ministers and the military. View on www.theguar... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Preview by Yahoo Can Meditation Change the World? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world Can Meditation Change the World? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world What would happen if every member of a country's government and army started to meditate? The amazing story of Mozambique's 'meditating president.' View on www.psychol... https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : http://salem-news.com/articles/july202012/burma-genocide-tk.php http://salem-news.com/articles/july202012/burma-genocide-tk.php
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why Are Buddhists Committing Genocide Again?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Self-selected samples prove nothing. Of course, I was discussing ideas, things one could possibly test scientifically, and pitfalls in experimental design. As for the President of Mozambique, Chissano is no longer the President of that country. Back when they used to serve chicken at Annapurna at MIU, I used to give his daughter, or at least she was his son's girlfriend (I never knew the exact relationships here) extra pieces of chicken because I knew she really did not like a strict vegetarian diet. Yes, I worked in the kitchen sometimes. According to Wikipedia, his MIU trained son was linked to a couple of murders in their country. His son was found dead in his home in 2007. Only suitably designed studies can resolve that issue with any certainty, but even so, the only country we know about where the head of state did TM and was in a position to seek retribution, didn't, but instead showed higher wisdom than average, resulting in a relative golden age of growth and peace for this country L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : Meditation and Moral Behaviour TM claims this, but it definitely does not appear to be true: look what it did to the people on FFL and even those that left to go to The Peak. My thoughts on this are the universe has no moral characteristics at all, and meditation TM or otherwise cannot provide such. Moral considerations are a mental overlay, a verbal program inserted into the mind, probably based on certain evolutionary considerations, such as cooperation, that allowed our species to flourish, and that survival of the family, the tribe, the city, the province or state, the nation, and the planet are prioritised in that order as mostly hard wiring in the brain. Genocide is a way of life for humans back even hundreds of thousands of years, if archaeology is any evidence. It is still going on today among people who meditate and those who do not. Most TM meditators are not in a situation where genocide would be a potential issue, except perhaps India, where Muslims and Hindus engage in fighting. Buddhists are not exceptions to the rule, and even TMer's have committed murder. I have never considered the TMO as a moral entity, rather the opposite. Contrasting violent behaviour with people who talk about meditation and peace is not the way to study the problem. In the absence of any verbal and cultural input concerning moral behaviour, would meditation make a group of humans less likely to commit genocide or otherwise disengage from violent crime? When we learn TM we also get a barrel full of verbiage concerning peaceful behaviour c., and there are a lot of peacemaking peer related mood-making cues in the movement to adjust in that direction. But what would happen if you got Boko Harum to meditate, would they cease their relentless killing, if in teaching them, they got no verbiage or cues about moral behaviour? Or would they just overjoyed that in 'becoming more effective' they could kill more each day, and perhaps get a few extra sex slaves in the bargain, and not be so tired at the end of the day after all that invigourating activity? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Typical mindfulness/concentrative practices are not claimed to make you moral or ethical. I always contrast such things with: Meditation is path to peace, Mozambique leader says http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Meditation is path to peace, Mozambique leader says http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Former Marxist guerrilla turned president spreads the word of the Beatles' guru to his ministers and the military. View on www.theguar... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Preview by Yahoo Can Meditation Change the World? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world Can Meditation Change the World? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world What would happen if every member of a country's government and army started to meditate? The amazing story of Mozambique's 'meditating president.' View on www.psychol... https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : http://salem-news.com/articles/july202012/burma-genocide-tk.php http://salem-news.com/articles/july202012/burma-genocide-tk.php
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why Are Buddhists Committing Genocide Again?
Self-selected samples prove nothing. Only suitably designed studies can resolve that issue with any certainty, but even so, the only country we know about where the head of state did TM and was in a position to seek retribution, didn't, but instead showed higher wisdom than average, resulting in a relative golden age of growth and peace for this country L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : Meditation and Moral Behaviour TM claims this, but it definitely does not appear to be true: look what it did to the people on FFL and even those that left to go to The Peak. My thoughts on this are the universe has no moral characteristics at all, and meditation TM or otherwise cannot provide such. Moral considerations are a mental overlay, a verbal program inserted into the mind, probably based on certain evolutionary considerations, such as cooperation, that allowed our species to flourish, and that survival of the family, the tribe, the city, the province or state, the nation, and the planet are prioritised in that order as mostly hard wiring in the brain. Genocide is a way of life for humans back even hundreds of thousands of years, if archaeology is any evidence. It is still going on today among people who meditate and those who do not. Most TM meditators are not in a situation where genocide would be a potential issue, except perhaps India, where Muslims and Hindus engage in fighting. Buddhists are not exceptions to the rule, and even TMer's have committed murder. I have never considered the TMO as a moral entity, rather the opposite. Contrasting violent behaviour with people who talk about meditation and peace is not the way to study the problem. In the absence of any verbal and cultural input concerning moral behaviour, would meditation make a group of humans less likely to commit genocide or otherwise disengage from violent crime? When we learn TM we also get a barrel full of verbiage concerning peaceful behaviour c., and there are a lot of peacemaking peer related mood-making cues in the movement to adjust in that direction. But what would happen if you got Boko Harum to meditate, would they cease their relentless killing, if in teaching them, they got no verbiage or cues about moral behaviour? Or would they just overjoyed that in 'becoming more effective' they could kill more each day, and perhaps get a few extra sex slaves in the bargain, and not be so tired at the end of the day after all that invigourating activity? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Typical mindfulness/concentrative practices are not claimed to make you moral or ethical. I always contrast such things with: Meditation is path to peace, Mozambique leader says http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Meditation is path to peace, Mozambique leader says http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Former Marxist guerrilla turned president spreads the word of the Beatles' guru to his ministers and the military. View on www.theguar... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Preview by Yahoo Can Meditation Change the World? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world Can Meditation Change the World? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world What would happen if every member of a country's government and army started to meditate? The amazing story of Mozambique's 'meditating president.' View on www.psychol... https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : http://salem-news.com/articles/july202012/burma-genocide-tk.php http://salem-news.com/articles/july202012/burma-genocide-tk.php
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why Are Buddhists Committing Genocide Again?
I was referring mostly to the effects of TM on the president and the people who were meditating and how their meditation rpactice appeared to affect their behavior, not the Maharishi Effect. And in fact, TM IS supposed to improve moral behavior in an absolutist sense of making one's behavior more in-tune with the laws of nature. That isn't a well-defined phrase, but greater common good might be a good first-order approximation. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Typical mindfulness/concentrative practices are not claimed to make you moral or ethical. And TM is? I always contrast such things with: You're drawing targets round arrows Lawson. The wonder of being able to affect the unified field is supposed to improve all aspects of life: The economy suffered serious setbacks when in 2000 and 2001 Mozambique was hit by floods which affected about a quarter of the population and destroyed much of its infrastructure. Furthermore, in 2002 a severe drought hit many central and southern parts of the country, including previously flood-stricken areas. Poverty remains widespread, with more than 50% of Mozambicans living on less than $1 a day. So, did he get his wish? Doesn't sound very good, but it's better than civil war but when do they ever last forever? Mozambique country profile http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13890416 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13890416 Mozambique country profile http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13890416 Provides an overview of Mozambique, including key events and facts about this former Portuguese colony and its recovery from a long civil war in the 19... View on www.bbc.co.uk http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13890416 Preview by Yahoo http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Meditation is path to peace, Mozambique leader says http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Former Marxist guerrilla turned president spreads the word of the Beatles' guru to his ministers and the military. View on www.theguar... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/22/jamesastill Preview by Yahoo Can Meditation Change the World? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world Can Meditation Change the World? https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world What would happen if every member of a country's government and army started to meditate? The amazing story of Mozambique's 'meditating president.' View on www.psychol... https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201212/can-meditation-change-the-world Preview by Yahoo ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : http://salem-news.com/articles/july202012/burma-genocide-tk.php http://salem-news.com/articles/july202012/burma-genocide-tk.php
