[FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : This is where he likes to parse. Got to preserve that rebel without a cause persona, or maybe its with a cause. I don't know. Just don't press him too hard on it, if you don't want to hear a lot of parsing and caveats. Please revise: 'without a cause' persona, or maybe its with a cause. TO Without a cause or effect. and, while you're at it revise: rebel TO 'deviant' and revise: persona TO personas Reads more accurately now. Thanks ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/8/2014 6:49 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: The thing is Barry, is that you believe in life after death, reincarnation, so what does that say about a self So, you're saying that Barry believes in the woo woo of reincarnation? And, that in order to reincarnate a person has to have an individual soul to be able to reincarnate? That sounds like woo woo. If there is no self what is it exactly, that reincarnates? Without a soul-monad there would be nothing to reincarnate. Maybe Barry got mixed up again - in previous messages he stated that he even remembers a few his previous selfs. Go figure. So what if the square is an illusion. That is supposed to negate a belief in self. You don't believe that, so why bring it up in that context. Maybe one day you can tell us more, what it's like not to have an ego. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Pity you felt the need to go all ego about this, rather than having some fun with it and possibly learning something. Here's Sam Harris riffing on a similar illusion: S.H.: Because what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real. Perhaps you can see the same effect in this perceptual illusion: It certainly looks like there is a white square in the center of this figure, but when we study the image, it becomes clear that there are only four partial circles. The square has been imposed by our visual system, whose edge detectors have been fooled. Can we know that the black shapes are more real than the white one? Yes, because the square doesn’t survive our efforts to locate it — its edges literally disappear. A little investigation and we see that its form has been merely implied. What could we say to a skeptic who insisted that the white square is just as real as the three-quarter circles and that its disappearance is nothing more than, as you say, “a relatively rare — and deliberately cultivated — experience”? All we could do is urge him to look more closely. The same is true about the conventional sense of self — the feeling of being a subject inside your head, a locus of consciousness behind your eyes, a thinker in addition to the flow of thoughts. This form of subjectivity does not survive scrutiny. If you really look for what you are calling “I,” this feeling will disappear. In fact, it is easier to experience consciousness without the feeling of self than it is to banish the white square in the above image. From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2014 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Why you can't trust your own perception On 09/07/2014 01:47 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: How many triangles do you see in this image? The correct answer is None. http://www.united-academics.org/magazine/design-technology/kanisza-triangle-you-cant-believe-your-eyes/ http://www.united-academics.org/magazine/design-technology/kanisza-triangle-you-cant-believe-your-eyes/ None? Really? Pac-Men? What was the age of these academists? 23? Actually the question is phrased wrong. Ask any computer graphics artist how they would create this image. They would start with one purple triangle. Why purple? We'll get to that in a minute. Next at one point in the triangle they would intersect a black circle. They would then copy the black circle and paste two more each each point of the purple triangle. Then select all three circles and put them on the bottom layer. This way the purple triangle overlaps the black triangles to create the Pac-Man. Next select the purple triangle and copy it then flip the triangle. Now we have two triangles forming a star. Select that new triangle and change the fill color to white or background and the stroke (outline) to black. Push that triangle to the bottom layer. Now we have the purple triangle on top. Select it and change the fill color to white (or background) and the stroke also to white. Now you have the graphic. How many images did that take? 5. How many images would it
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception
On 9/8/2014 9:55 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Richard, what's your take on what was going on? Was it some kind of hypnosis, although it doesn't seem to incorporate the traditional elements of hypnosis, in that there did not seem to be the power of suggestion taking place. Some people are highly prone to suggestion, and peer pressure. I just finished reading a few accounts. There aren't many that I could find. Desert visits by Rama and his students were not uncommon back then. And, Mark Laxer describes one of them in his book . The desert visits were more on the magnitude of five or six students in one or two cars, and Lenz driving out to a secret meeting place in his Porshe 911. What they did there is anyone's guess - meditate? 'Take Me for a Ride: Coming of Age in a Destructive Cult' by Mark E. Laxer Outer Rim Press, 1993 Let's just say there might be some exaggeration in Barry's story. Can you imagine 200 vehicles all headed to the park at the same time on narrow, two-lane winding roads up a mountain, in the middle of the night - WHEN THE PARK IS CLOSED? You could probably sneak a few students into the park, but not a crazed stoned-out gang of 200 hippies. Where would the park 200 vehicles? According to Sam Harris, we've got to use some common sense here! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness accounts. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is just a fool and knave. You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that there'd be stories floating around. Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and trashed on /alt.m.t.transcendental/ and on /alt.sci.skeptic/, so why kick a dead horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go figure. And maybe those stories are out there. I've just never looked for them. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many others. We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were pretty much debunked totally by /The Amazing Randi/ on the /alt.sci.skeptic/ discussion group a long time ago. /'Take Me For a Ride'/ Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult by Mark E. Laxer Outer Rim Press, 1993 --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : Have you heard about the /Indian Rope Trick?/ In the rope trick, the magician is usually accompanied by a couple of boy assistants. In Rama's case, he seems to have required over 200 assistants, both male and female. Go figure. The Indian rope trick is stage magic said to have been performed in and around India during the 19th century. Sometimes described as the world’s greatest illusion, it reputedly involved a magician, a length of rope, and one or more boy assistants Indian rope trick: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my artist friends. Would they be less likely to see red in a color only close to it on the spectrum, or more likely? I have a natural fascination for
[FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception
Sure, I see what you are bringing up here. Thanks for clarifying. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness accounts. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is just a fool and knave. You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that there'd be stories floating around. Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and trashed on alt.m.t.transcendental and on alt.sci.skeptic, so why kick a dead horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go figure. And maybe those stories are out there. I've just never looked for them. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many others. We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were pretty much debunked totally by The Amazing Randi on the alt.sci.skeptic discussion group a long time ago. 'Take Me For a Ride' Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult by Mark E. Laxer Outer Rim Press, 1993 --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : Have you heard about the Indian Rope Trick? In the rope trick, the magician is usually accompanied by a couple of boy assistants. In Rama's case, he seems to have required over 200 assistants, both male and female. Go figure. The Indian rope trick is stage magic said to have been performed in and around India during the 19th century. Sometimes described as the world’s greatest illusion, it reputedly involved a magician, a length of rope, and one or more boy assistants Indian rope trick: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my artist friends. Would they be less likely to see red in a color only close to it on the spectrum, or more likely? I have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must understand, because I have had a number of perceptions that it would have been FAR more convenient for me NOT to have had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing triangular-shaped dimensional doorways open up in front of me in what a moment earlier had been the side of a mountain, and being able to see stars through the doorways. Like seeing a guy six feet in front of me go invisible, such that I could see the desert landscape through him. I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many years. So did hundreds, possibly thousands of other people who ran into the Rama guy and spent time with him. But was it real or was it future Memorex, created via suggestion? I don't know. I'll never know. Knowing what I know now about suggestion and the placebo effect and the neurochemistry of it all, OF COURSE these experiences of mine could have been the result of suggestion. But suggestion or not, they really *were* my experiences. I saw all this stuff. I saw it so often over the years I almost got bored with it. Seriously. I remember some gal asking me in an L.A. bar one Friday night, Whatchadoin' this weekend. I got a wild hair up my ass and decided to tell her the truth: Tomorrow I'm going to go out into the Anza-Borrego Desert and hike around all night with a couple of hundred guys and gals I know. We like to do this because the guy leading the hike has this tendency to walk around about a foot over the sand and turn invisible and make the stars move around and that's fun to watch. What are you doin'? I quite remember her response. I sat there watching her react for a
[FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness accounts. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is just a fool and knave. You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that there'd be stories floating around. Let bawee have his time to lord it over those who were not 'fortunate' enough to have been around the ego bloated man named Rama. He can never prove what he saw ever happened which is a miracle in and of itself. The fact that there is not one video or photo or news story with graphics or any outside testimony that can prove any of what bawee says Rama did ever happened is the true woo woo of all of this. Can you imagine that now when every move someone makes is captured in some sort of selfie or iPhone image? But even the 80's was hardly ancient history so surely there could have been a few films or videos or pictures taken of these monumental super-human antics. By the way, did I tell you I saw a guy eat a sink and poop out butterflies while hovering ten feet above the Sonoma desert? Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and trashed on alt.m.t.transcendental and on alt.sci.skeptic, so why kick a dead horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go figure. And maybe those stories are out there. I've just never looked for them. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many others. We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were pretty much debunked totally by The Amazing Randi on the alt.sci.skeptic discussion group a long time ago. 'Take Me For a Ride' Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult by Mark E. Laxer Outer Rim Press, 1993 --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : Have you heard about the Indian Rope Trick? In the rope trick, the magician is usually accompanied by a couple of boy assistants. In Rama's case, he seems to have required over 200 assistants, both male and female. Go figure. The Indian rope trick is stage magic said to have been performed in and around India during the 19th century. Sometimes described as the world’s greatest illusion, it reputedly involved a magician, a length of rope, and one or more boy assistants Indian rope trick: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my artist friends. Would they be less likely to see red in a color only close to it on the spectrum, or more likely? I have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must understand, because I have had a number of perceptions that it would have been FAR more convenient for me NOT to have had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing triangular-shaped dimensional doorways open up in front of me in what a moment earlier had been the side of a mountain, and being able to see stars through the doorways. Like seeing a guy six feet in front of me go invisible, such that I could see the desert landscape through him. I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many years. So did hundreds, possibly thousands of other people who ran into the Rama guy and spent time with him. But was it real or was it future Memorex, created via suggestion? I don't know. I'll never know. Knowing what I know now about suggestion and the placebo effect and the neurochemistry of it all, OF COURSE these experiences of mine could have been the result of
[FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/8/2014 2:25 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many years. So did hundreds, possibly thousands of other people who ran into the Rama guy and spent time with him. But was it real or was it future Memorex, created via suggestion? So, this is a dick-waving contest. I'm suggesting your experience was woo woo. Barry's crude hallucinations can't compare to any that I've experience first-hand. One time down in Mexico, I ate a magic mushroom taco and expanded my consciousness up the tenth level - I experienced the entire cosmos as a divine bi-unity, all inter-connected, just like the net of Lord Indra. Suddenly, I realized that we are all all related - I became enlightened on the spot! Then, hovering right in front of me, appeared the Creator God of Volcanoes and His wife, the beautiful Wisdom Sophia, their son Baal, and their lovely daughter, Ashley. At that moment I realized that existence is, in reality, a great big family affair, all united in a great big Singular Field. After abut three minutes, they all flew off and stood on a very high mountain, shooting out golden light and created a beautiful rainbow and God himself made a mighty thunder. It was just awesome! SPOILER ALERT! This is exactly like the last scene in Boyhood, a film I reviewed here yesterday.A film 12 years-in-the-making. Main character named MJ is very appealing, and he's having just this experience as the film closes. I hope that you enjoyed the character as much as I did, and join me in hoping the other people, who have not yet seen the movie, and are therefore not reading this, get as much pleasure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness accounts. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is just a fool and knave. You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that there'd be stories floating around. Let bawee have his time to lord it over those who were not 'fortunate' enough to have been around the ego bloated man named Rama. He can never prove what he saw ever happened which is a miracle in and of itself. The fact that there is not one video or photo or news story with graphics or any outside testimony that can prove any of what bawee says Rama did ever happened is the true woo woo of all of this. Can you imagine that now when every move someone makes is captured in some sort of selfie or iPhone image? But even the 80's was hardly ancient history so surely there could have been a few films or videos or pictures taken of these monumental super-human antics. By the way, did I tell you I saw a guy eat a sink and poop out butterflies while hovering ten feet above the Sonoma desert? I love Sonoma! The Other wrote a book? Tell me. Please. I'll do a Review. Literate in NYC, doc D Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and trashed on alt.m.t.transcendental and on alt.sci.skeptic, so why kick a dead horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go figure. And maybe those stories are out there. I've just never looked for them. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many others. We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were pretty much debunked totally by The Amazing Randi on the alt.sci.skeptic discussion group a long time ago. 'Take Me For a Ride' Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult by Mark E. Laxer Outer Rim Press, 1993 --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : Have you heard about the Indian Rope Trick? In the rope trick, the magician is usually accompanied by a couple of boy assistants. In Rama's case, he seems to have required over 200 assistants, both male and female. Go figure. The Indian rope trick is stage magic said to have been performed in and around India during the 19th century. Sometimes described as the world’s greatest illusion, it reputedly involved a magician, a length of rope, and one or more boy assistants Indian rope trick: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my artist friends. Would they be less likely to see red in a color only close to it on the spectrum, or more likely? I have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must understand, because I have had a number of perceptions that it would have been FAR more convenient for me NOT to have had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing triangular-shaped dimensional doorways open up in front of me in what a moment earlier had been the side of a mountain, and being able to see stars through the doorways. Like seeing a guy six feet in front of me go invisible, such that I could see the desert landscape through him. I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many years. So did hundreds, possibly thousands of other people who ran into the Rama guy and spent time with him. But was it real or was it future Memorex, created via suggestion? I don't know. I'll never know.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception
On 9/8/2014 8:19 AM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Sure, I see what you are bringing up here. Thanks for clarifying. Just to clarify: ...what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real. - Sam Harris What I'm talking about is slowly lifting up off the sofa and sitting in midair for two to three minutes. Or stepping up off the ground in the desert and then flying around several feet above the ground for a while. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness accounts. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is just a fool and knave. You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that there'd be stories floating around. Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and trashed on /alt.m.t.transcendental/ and on /alt.sci.skeptic/, so why kick a dead horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go figure. And maybe those stories are out there. I've just never looked for them. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many others. We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were pretty much debunked totally by /The Amazing Randi/ on the /alt.sci.skeptic/ discussion group a long time ago. /'Take Me For a Ride'/ Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult by Mark E. Laxer Outer Rim Press, 1993 --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : Have you heard about the /Indian Rope Trick?/ In the rope trick, the magician is usually accompanied by a couple of boy assistants. In Rama's case, he seems to have required over 200 assistants, both male and female. Go figure. The Indian rope trick is stage magic said to have been performed in and around India during the 19th century. Sometimes described as the world’s greatest illusion, it reputedly involved a magician, a length of rope, and one or more boy assistants Indian rope trick: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my artist friends. Would they be less likely to see red in a color only close to it on the spectrum, or more likely? I have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must understand, because I have had a number of perceptions that it would have been FAR more convenient for me NOT to have had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing triangular-shaped dimensional doorways open up in front of me in what a moment earlier had been the side of a mountain, and being able to see stars through the doorways. Like seeing a guy six feet in front of me go invisible, such that I could see the desert landscape through him. I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many years. So did hundreds, possibly thousands of other people who ran into the Rama guy and spent time with him. But was it real or was it future
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception
Richard, what I'd say to Sam Harris is: that which is closest to the Truth lasts longest. What do you think lasts longest, scrutiny or Truth? Truth is gonna last no matter how little or how much scrutiny we do. (-: On Monday, September 8, 2014 9:46 AM, 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On 9/8/2014 8:19 AM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Sure, I see what you are bringing up here. Thanks for clarifying. Just to clarify: ...what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real. - Sam Harris What I'm talking about is slowly lifting up off the sofa and sitting in midair for two to three minutes. Or stepping up off the ground in the desert and then flying around several feet above the ground for a while. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness accounts. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is just a fool and knave. You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that there'd be stories floating around. Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and trashed on alt.m.t.transcendental and on alt.sci.skeptic, so why kick a dead horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go figure. And maybe those stories are out there. I've just never looked for them. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many others. We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were pretty much debunked totally by The Amazing Randi on the alt.sci.skeptic discussion group a long time ago. 'Take Me For a Ride' Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult by Mark E. Laxer Outer Rim Press, 1993 --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : Have you heard about the Indian Rope Trick? In the rope trick, the magician is usually accompanied by a couple of boy assistants. In Rama's case, he seems to have required over 200 assistants, both male and female. Go figure. The Indian rope trick is stage
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Richard, what I'd say to Sam Harris is: that which is closest to the Truth lasts longest. What do you think lasts longest, scrutiny or Truth? Truth is gonna last no matter how little or how much scrutiny we do. (-: Which is best, oranges or fork lift trucks? On Monday, September 8, 2014 9:46 AM, 'Richard J. Williams' punditster@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On 9/8/2014 8:19 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Sure, I see what you are bringing up here. Thanks for clarifying. Just to clarify: ...what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real. - Sam Harris What I'm talking about is slowly lifting up off the sofa and sitting in midair for two to three minutes. Or stepping up off the ground in the desert and then flying around several feet above the ground for a while. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness accounts. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is just a fool and knave. You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that there'd be stories floating around. Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and trashed on alt.m.t.transcendental and on alt.sci.skeptic, so why kick a dead horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go figure. And maybe those stories are out there. I've just never looked for them. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many others. We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were pretty much debunked totally by The Amazing Randi on the alt.sci.skeptic discussion group a long time ago. 'Take Me For a Ride' Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult by Mark E. Laxer Outer Rim Press, 1993 --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : Have you heard about the Indian Rope Trick? In the rope trick, the magician is usually accompanied by a couple of boy assistants. In Rama's case, he seems to have required over 200 assistants, both male and female. Go figure. The Indian rope trick is stage magic said to have been performed in and around India during the 19th century. Sometimes described as the world’s greatest illusion, it reputedly involved a magician, a length of rope, and one or more boy assistants Indian rope trick: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my artist friends. Would they be less likely to see red in a color only close to it on the spectrum, or more likely? I have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must understand, because I have had a number of perceptions that it would have been FAR more convenient for me NOT to have had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing triangular-shaped dimensional doorways open up in front of me in what a moment earlier had been the side of a mountain, and being able to see stars through the doorways. Like seeing a guy six feet in front of me go invisible, such that I could see the desert landscape through him. I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many years. So did hundreds, possibly thousands of other people who ran into
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Richard, what I'd say to Sam Harris is: that which is closest to the Truth lasts longest. What do you think lasts longest, scrutiny or Truth? Truth is gonna last no matter how little or how much scrutiny we do. (-: Which is best, oranges or fork lift trucks? Oranges are better for eating. Fork lift trucks are better for lifting. Are you thinking that I'm just a know-it-All? On Monday, September 8, 2014 9:46 AM, 'Richard J. Williams' punditster@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On 9/8/2014 8:19 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Sure, I see what you are bringing up here. Thanks for clarifying. Just to clarify: ...what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real. - Sam Harris What I'm talking about is slowly lifting up off the sofa and sitting in midair for two to three minutes. Or stepping up off the ground in the desert and then flying around several feet above the ground for a while. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness accounts. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is just a fool and knave. You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that there'd be stories floating around. Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and trashed on alt.m.t.transcendental and on alt.sci.skeptic, so why kick a dead horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go figure. And maybe those stories are out there. I've just never looked for them. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many others. We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were pretty much debunked totally by The Amazing Randi on the alt.sci.skeptic discussion group a long time ago. 'Take Me For a Ride' Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult by Mark E. Laxer Outer Rim Press, 1993 --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : Have you heard about the Indian Rope Trick? In the rope trick, the magician is usually accompanied by a couple of boy assistants. In Rama's case, he seems to have required over 200 assistants, both male and female. Go figure. The Indian rope trick is stage magic said to have been performed in and around India during the 19th century. Sometimes described as the world’s greatest illusion, it reputedly involved a magician, a length of rope, and one or more boy assistants Indian rope trick: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my artist friends. Would they be less likely to see red in a color only close to it on the spectrum, or more likely? I have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must understand, because I have had a number of perceptions that it would have been FAR more convenient for me NOT to have had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing triangular-shaped dimensional doorways open up in front of me in what a moment earlier had been the side of a mountain, and being able to see stars through the doorways. Like seeing a guy six feet in front of me go invisible, such
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception
Dan, I think you AM all (-: I am That Thou art That All This is That That alone is On Monday, September 8, 2014 10:21 AM, danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Richard, what I'd say to Sam Harris is: that which is closest to the Truth lasts longest. What do you think lasts longest, scrutiny or Truth? Truth is gonna last no matter how little or how much scrutiny we do. (-: Which is best, oranges or fork lift trucks? Oranges are better for eating. Fork lift trucks are better for lifting. Are you thinking that I'm just a know-it-All? On Monday, September 8, 2014 9:46 AM, 'Richard J. Williams' punditster@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On 9/8/2014 8:19 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Sure, I see what you are bringing up here. Thanks for clarifying. Just to clarify: ...what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real. - Sam Harris What I'm talking about is slowly lifting up off the sofa and sitting in midair for two to three minutes. Or stepping up off the ground in the desert and then flying around several feet above the ground for a while. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness accounts. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is just a fool and knave. You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that there'd be stories floating around. Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and trashed on alt.m.t.transcendental and on alt.sci.skeptic, so why kick a dead horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go figure. And maybe those stories are out there. I've just never looked for them. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many others. We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were pretty much debunked totally by The Amazing Randi on the alt.sci.skeptic discussion group a long time ago. 'Take Me For a Ride' Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult by Mark E. Laxer Outer Rim Press, 1993 --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : Have you heard about the Indian Rope Trick? In the rope trick, the magician is usually accompanied by a couple of boy assistants. In Rama's case, he seems to have required over 200 assistants, both male and female. Go figure. The Indian rope trick is stage magic said to have been performed in and around India during the 19th century. Sometimes described as the world’s greatest illusion, it reputedly involved a magician, a length of rope, and one or more boy assistants Indian rope trick: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my artist friends. Would they be less likely to see red in a color only close to it on the spectrum, or more likely? I have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must understand, because I have had a number of perceptions that it would have been FAR more convenient for me NOT to have had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing triangular-shaped dimensional doorways open up in front of me in what a moment earlier had been the side of a mountain, and being able to see stars through the doorways. Like seeing a guy six feet in front of me go invisible, such that I could see the desert landscape through him. I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many years. So did hundreds, possibly thousands of other people who ran into the Rama guy and spent time with him. But was it real or was it future Memorex, created via suggestion? I don't know. I'll never know. Knowing what I know now
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception
On 9/8/2014 9:00 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Can you imagine that now when every move someone makes is captured in some sort of selfie or iPhone image? Remember the future. Quite often, it's not what a guru does or says, it's what his followers say and claim after the guru is gone. After reading all the books that Rama wrote and published and watching him on YouTube, it is obvious to me that he was a pretty common-sense kind of guy, for his day and age -1980s and 90s. What I'm objecting to is /not what Rama said or did/, but what some of the Rama informants say he did or said. Based on what Barry has posted to FFL, the Rama guy employed /woo woo/ and was a charlatan - /a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill/ - a guy attempting to sell tickets to a levitation event for money. /This is false /- Fred Lenz was NOT a fraud. In fact, Lenz held a Ph.D. from a UNY at Stony Brook, a very prestigious school and he was a published author of some repute. When you read and hear what Lenz wrote or said, it was nothing like what Barry has claimed - Fred Lenz was a very good teacher and mood-maker. /Rama - The Mind Body Connection/ http://youtu.be/C-RXuAf2dfw
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/8/2014 9:00 AM, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Can you imagine that now when every move someone makes is captured in some sort of selfie or iPhone image? Remember the future. Quite often, it's not what a guru does or says, it's what his followers say and claim after the guru is gone. After reading all the books that Rama wrote and published and watching him on YouTube, it is obvious to me that he was a pretty common-sense kind of guy, for his day and age -1980s and 90s. What I'm objecting to is not what Rama said or did, but what some of the Rama informants say he did or said. Based on what Barry has posted to FFL, the Rama guy employed woo woo and was a charlatan - a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill - a guy attempting to sell tickets to a levitation event for money. This is false - Fred Lenz was NOT a fraud. In fact, Lenz held a Ph.D. from a UNY at Stony Brook, a very prestigious school and he was a published author of some repute. When you read and hear what Lenz wrote or said, it was nothing like what Barry has claimed - Fred Lenz was a very good teacher and mood-maker. Rama - The Mind Body Connection http://youtu.be/C-RXuAf2dfw http://youtu.be/C-RXuAf2dfw Listened to this yesterday: Order #D01-6320438-7399532 http://www.amazon.com/gp/r.html?R=336YSIZEJN9FVC=3UE7YV4YZ5PH3H=Q9CAZCJ3WATTAX7MIWREMVJE9PIAT=CU=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Fdigital%2Fyour-account%2Forder-summary.html%2Fref%3Dpe_385040_117923520_TE_M1T1YA%3ForderID%3DD01-6320438-7399532 Placed on Sunday, September 7, 2014 http://www.amazon.com/gp/r.html?R=336YSIZEJN9FVC=3UE7YV4YZ5PH3H=7ARXJKQ3RN9OFHLQ5R4TQRLYDSEAT=CU=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Fdmusic%2Fredirect%2Flaunch%3Fref_%3Dpe_385040_117923520_TE_M1T1mp3_oce_play The Bhagavad-Gita http://www.amazon.com/gp/r.html?R=336YSIZEJN9FVC=3UE7YV4YZ5PH3H=ZELSRKGQQBDQO75O4YAJEJW8HNGAT=CU=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fdp%2FB00AMSF5RS%2Fref%3Dpe_385040_117923520_TE_M1T1DP MP3 Download Sold by Amazon Digital Services, Inc. Remember the future. Quite often, it's not what a guru does or says, it's what his followers say and claim after the guru is gone. After reading all the books that Rama wrote and published and watching him on YouTube, it is obvious to me that he was a pretty common-sense kind of guy, for his day and age -1980s and 90s. What I'm objecting to is not what Rama said or did, but what some of the Rama informants say he did or said. Based on what Barry has posted to FFL, the Rama guy employed woo woo and was a charlatan - a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill - a guy attempting to sell tickets to a levitation event for money. This is false - Fred Lenz was NOT a fraud. In fact, Lenz held a Ph.D. from a UNY at Stony Brook, a very prestigious school and he was a published author of some repute. When you read and hear what Lenz wrote or said, it was nothing like what Barry has claimed - Fred Lenz was a very good teacher and mood-maker. Rama - The Mind Body Connection http://youtu.be/C-RXuAf2dfw http://youtu.be/C-RXuAf2dfw Listened to this yesterday:
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception
Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness accounts. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is just a fool and knave. You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that there'd be stories floating around. Let bawee have his time to lord it over those who were not 'fortunate' enough to have been around the ego bloated man named Rama. He can never prove what he saw ever happened which is a miracle in and of itself. The fact that there is not one video or photo or news story with graphics or any outside testimony that can prove any of what bawee says Rama did ever happened is the true woo woo of all of this. Can you imagine that now when every move someone makes is captured in some sort of selfie or iPhone image? But even the 80's was hardly ancient history so surely there could have been a few films or videos or pictures taken of these monumental super-human antics. By the way, did I tell you I saw a guy eat a sink and poop out butterflies while hovering ten feet above the Sonoma desert? On 9/8/2014 9:35 AM, danfriedman2002 wrote: I love Sonoma! My daughter and her kids live in Santa Rosa, CA and we travel there every year - it's a great place to visit and Mendecino too. We have some great memories of time spent at a hippie commune up there with Wavy Gravy and Tim Leary. Doug Sahm - Mendocino - Live from Austin City Limits http://youtu.be/l2kMm60cB-s The Other wrote a book? Tell me. Please. I'll do a Review. And, it's a pretty good book too, much better than what he's writing these days: http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind Literate in NYC, doc D So, I'm not sure the /so-called Rama levitation golden-light event/ can be explained without resource to the woo woo factor. Maybe you could say it was a case of /lucid dreaming/ or /mass hysteria/ brought on by the ingestion of hallucinogenics or sleep deprivation. Or, that Rama's /lifting up and hovering/ was just a series of mentally projected /point-instants/, making it /appear/ that Rama was levitating, when in reality Rama moved not a single inch. That's one of the problems with perceptions - /sometimes they can't be trusted./ /'Surfing the Himalayas: A Spiritual Adventure'/ by Frederick Lenz St. Martin's 1995 /'Snowboarding to Nirvana: A Novel'/ by Frederick Lenz St. Martin's, 1998 Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and trashed on /alt.m.t.transcendental/ and on /alt.sci.skeptic/, so why kick a dead horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go figure. And maybe those stories are out there. I've just never looked for them. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many others. We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were pretty much debunked totally by /The Amazing Randi/ on the /alt.sci.skeptic/ discussion group a long time ago. /'Take Me For a Ride'/ Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult by Mark E. Laxer Outer Rim Press, 1993 --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : Have you heard about the /Indian Rope Trick?/ In the rope trick, the magician is usually
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness accounts. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is just a fool and knave. You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that there'd be stories floating around. Let bawee have his time to lord it over those who were not 'fortunate' enough to have been around the ego bloated man named Rama. He can never prove what he saw ever happened which is a miracle in and of itself. The fact that there is not one video or photo or news story with graphics or any outside testimony that can prove any of what bawee says Rama did ever happened is the true woo woo of all of this. Can you imagine that now when every move someone makes is captured in some sort of selfie or iPhone image? But even the 80's was hardly ancient history so surely there could have been a few films or videos or pictures taken of these monumental super-human antics. By the way, did I tell you I saw a guy eat a sink and poop out butterflies while hovering ten feet above the Sonoma desert? On 9/8/2014 9:35 AM, danfriedman2002 wrote: I love Sonoma! My daughter and her kids live in Santa Rosa, CA and we travel there every year - it's a great place to visit and Mendecino too. We have some great memories of time spent at a hippie commune up there with Wavy Gravy and Tim Leary. I love Wavy Gravy! Coincidentally my #1 daughter attended Berkley Law, so we got into a yearly habit of visiting California Wine Country. I didn't want to talk about myself and bore everyone, but I was very concerned about the Wine Storage Facility when the quake was reported here first. After a fire at the Facility, prices of Cali wines shot up in NYC. That opened the door for every other country in the world to ship here. NYer's tried them and liked them. So now I only drink cheap Californias. Doug Sahm - Mendocino - Live from Austin City Limits http://youtu.be/l2kMm60cB-s http://youtu.be/l2kMm60cB-s The Other wrote a book? Tell me. Please. I'll do a Review. And, it's a pretty good book too, much better than what he's writing these days: I understood him to be practicing his typing skills here. I had only assumed that he did better on some local site, where they understood English with some difficulty. http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind Literate in NYC, doc D So, I'm not sure the so-called Rama levitation golden-light event can be explained without resource to the woo woo factor. Maybe you could say it was a case of lucid dreaming or mass hysteria brought on by the ingestion of hallucinogenics or sleep deprivation. Or, that Rama's lifting up and hovering was just a series of mentally projected point-instants, making it appear that Rama was levitating, when in reality Rama moved not a single inch. That's one of the problems with perceptions - sometimes they can't be trusted. 'Surfing the Himalayas: A Spiritual Adventure' by Frederick Lenz St. Martin's 1995 'Snowboarding to Nirvana: A Novel' by Frederick Lenz St. Martin's, 1998 Richard, The technical term is Barry Delusion. The layman's phrase is Bullshit Always trying to help barry see himself as others see him. Helpfully. Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and trashed on alt.m.t.transcendental and on alt.sci.skeptic, so why kick a dead horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go figure. And maybe those stories are out there. I've just never looked for them. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many others. We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were pretty much debunked totally by The Amazing Randi on the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception
Richard, what's your take on what was going on? Was it some kind of hypnosis, although it doesn't seem to incorporate the traditional elements of hypnosis, in that there did not seem to be the power of suggestion taking place. I just finished reading a few accounts. There aren't many that I could find. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness accounts. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is just a fool and knave. You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that there'd be stories floating around. Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and trashed on alt.m.t.transcendental and on alt.sci.skeptic, so why kick a dead horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go figure. And maybe those stories are out there. I've just never looked for them. What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the Woo woo factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many others. We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were pretty much debunked totally by The Amazing Randi on the alt.sci.skeptic discussion group a long time ago. 'Take Me For a Ride' Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult by Mark E. Laxer Outer Rim Press, 1993 --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : Have you heard about the Indian Rope Trick? In the rope trick, the magician is usually accompanied by a couple of boy assistants. In Rama's case, he seems to have required over 200 assistants, both male and female. Go figure. The Indian rope trick is stage magic said to have been performed in and around India during the 19th century. Sometimes described as the world’s greatest illusion, it reputedly involved a magician, a length of rope, and one or more boy assistants Indian rope trick: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my artist friends. Would they be less likely to see red in a color only close to it on the spectrum, or more likely? I have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must understand, because I have had a number of perceptions that it would have been FAR more convenient for me NOT to have had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing triangular-shaped dimensional doorways open up in front of me in what a moment earlier had been the side of a mountain, and being able to see stars through the doorways. Like seeing a guy six feet in front of me go invisible, such that I could see the desert landscape through him. I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many years. So did hundreds, possibly thousands of other people who ran into the Rama guy and spent time with him. But was it real or was it future Memorex, created via suggestion? I don't know. I'll never know. Knowing what I know now about suggestion and the placebo effect and the neurochemistry of it all, OF COURSE these experiences of mine could have been the result of suggestion. But suggestion or not, they really *were* my experiences. I saw all this stuff. I saw it so often over the years I almost got bored with it. Seriously. I remember some gal asking me in an L.A. bar one Friday night, Whatchadoin' this weekend. I got a wild hair up my ass and decided to tell her the truth: Tomorrow I'm going to go out into the Anza-Borrego Desert and hike around all night with a couple of hundred guys and gals I know. We like to do this because the guy
[FairfieldLife] Re: Woo woo, was Why you can't trust your own perception
This is where he likes to parse. Got to preserve that rebel without a cause persona, or maybe its with a cause. I don't know. Just don't press him too hard on it, if you don't want to hear a lot of parsing and caveats. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/8/2014 6:49 AM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: The thing is Barry, is that you believe in life after death, reincarnation, so what does that say about a self So, you're saying that Barry believes in the woo woo of reincarnation? And, that in order to reincarnate a person has to have an individual soul to be able to reincarnate? That sounds like woo woo. If there is no self what is it exactly, that reincarnates? Without a soul-monad there would be nothing to reincarnate. Maybe Barry got mixed up again - in previous messages he stated that he even remembers a few his previous selfs. Go figure. So what if the square is an illusion. That is supposed to negate a belief in self. You don't believe that, so why bring it up in that context. Maybe one day you can tell us more, what it's like not to have an ego. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Pity you felt the need to go all ego about this, rather than having some fun with it and possibly learning something. Here's Sam Harris riffing on a similar illusion: S.H.: Because what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real. Perhaps you can see the same effect in this perceptual illusion: It certainly looks like there is a white square in the center of this figure, but when we study the image, it becomes clear that there are only four partial circles. The square has been imposed by our visual system, whose edge detectors have been fooled. Can we know that the black shapes are more real than the white one? Yes, because the square doesn’t survive our efforts to locate it — its edges literally disappear. A little investigation and we see that its form has been merely implied. What could we say to a skeptic who insisted that the white square is just as real as the three-quarter circles and that its disappearance is nothing more than, as you say, “a relatively rare — and deliberately cultivated — experience”? All we could do is urge him to look more closely. The same is true about the conventional sense of self — the feeling of being a subject inside your head, a locus of consciousness behind your eyes, a thinker in addition to the flow of thoughts. This form of subjectivity does not survive scrutiny. If you really look for what you are calling “I,” this feeling will disappear. In fact, it is easier to experience consciousness without the feeling of self than it is to banish the white square in the above image. From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2014 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Why you can't trust your own perception On 09/07/2014 01:47 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: How many triangles do you see in this image? The correct answer is None. http://www.united-academics.org/magazine/design-technology/kanisza-triangle-you-cant-believe-your-eyes/ http://www.united-academics.org/magazine/design-technology/kanisza-triangle-you-cant-believe-your-eyes/ None? Really? Pac-Men? What was the age of these academists? 23? Actually the question is phrased wrong. Ask any computer graphics artist how they would create this image. They would start with one purple triangle. Why purple? We'll get to that in a minute. Next at one point in the triangle they would intersect a black circle. They would then copy the black circle and paste two more each each point of the purple triangle. Then select all three circles and put them on the bottom layer. This way the purple triangle overlaps the black triangles to create the Pac-Man. Next select the purple triangle and copy it then flip the triangle. Now we have two triangles forming a star. Select that new triangle and change the fill color to white or background and the stroke (outline) to black. Push that triangle to the bottom layer. Now we have the purple triangle on top. Select it and change the fill color to white (or background) and the stroke also to white. Now you have the graphic. How many images did that take? 5. How many images would it take if you di it the fragmented way? 6. And a much more difficult image to construct that way too. So, I as a computer person who does both graphics programming and art see two triangles. Perhaps the correct question would have been how many complete triangles do you see? The answer
[FairfieldLife] RE: Woo Woo TV
Rated NOT FOR SALYAVIN No way! I love David Icke and all that radical stuff. The trick is to make sure the ol' bullshit detector is fully charged up before you commence. There's a debate about Israel on at the moment, no alien reptile revelations yet but here's hoping! And you never know, maybe one day one of these guys will actually discover something that stands up to a bit of scrutiny. I'd love it if it turned out the Earth was ruled by giant shape-shifting lizards, they can't be any worse than David Cameron can they?
[FairfieldLife] RE: Woo Woo TV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MIKHUZAsUc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MIKHUZAsUc
[FairfieldLife] RE: Woo Woo TV
Charming. Might be a little more convincing if the voice wasn't synthesized. Or maybe the idea was It takes one to know one?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Woo Woo News Just In -- Jesus was a shapeshifter
turquoiseb: Jesus was a shapeshifter... Which one? Maybe so, but, the very first religion of man concerned the 'Luck of the Hunt', expressions of which remain in the Neolithic cave paintings of Southern France. Here, in small groups, early man retired inside dark solitary places in order to perform ceremonies dedicated to obtaining food with the use of a fire fetish and with rhythmic movement of hands and feet in certain prescribed patterns, accompanied by vocalization of non-sense gibberish. The Hunt, based on the religious belief in man's free-will to move about in search for food, was the first universal religion of man, and its High God was the energetic Arch Hunter, thus Animism whose bounty was called Manna. With the invention of the plow, agriculture, and animal husbandry, the second religion of man became 'Nature and Society', governed by laws, both secular and divine. Fixed laws are opposed to man's free-will. Laws are ascertained by observing the heavenly planets and the seasons. A faith in the bountiful harvest, which was a boon from the sky gods, who could be seen of man by the clearing of the fields. In this religion of rule revelation, truth was thought of as a fixed expression of cosmic order, with a firmament above, the stars being the shinning gods, or chinks in which light entered the world of man below. Here, in towns and villages, men gathered in large groups, to perform ceremonies and rites, by use of a pole and a sacrifice fetish, offered in return for a good harvest, and with rhythmic movement of hands and feet in certain prescribed patterns, accompanied by vocalization of non-sense gibberish. The Harvest, based on the belief in cosmic law was the second universal religion, and its High God was the industrious Arch Harvester, thus Naturalism whose bounty was called Maat. A duality thus arose in the minds of men and women, that is, those humans were separate from a Creator, being the created of the 'One on High'. This duality produced a conflict among the people, between those who believed in free-will and those who believed in fixed laws. A fight began between the Rangers and the Sedants, which became The Great War, the third Religion of man. In which the Gods themselves, armed to the teeth, fight with themselves and with man for Lordship over the land and the people of the new society, in a cosmic battle of Light versus Darkness, or the forces of Good and Evil, as expressed in the Vedas of India, the Avesta of Persia, the Bible of the Levant, and the Book of Thoth in Memphis, that is, Osiris and Seth. With the invention of metal and the spoked wheel, in plains and fields, men gathered in larger groups, to perform ceremonies and rites, by use of various weapon fetishes, in order to obtain success in rapine, plunder and pillage, and with rhythmic movement of hands and feet in certain prescribed patterns, accompanied by vocalization of non-sense gibberish. The Great War, based on the belief in revealed might, and the glory of militarism, was the third religion of man, and its High God was the ingenious Warrior, thus Arch Archer whose bounty was called Booty. So, it's all about free-will hunting: moving about, a fixed law harvest, fetish placement, and the cargo cult. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Woo Woo News Just In -- Jesus was a shapeshifter
more shape shifting - very cool, and inspiring: http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/distorted-furniture-looks-glitch-182657723.html http://tinyurl.com/b59wxfv --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2293301/Shape-shifting-Jesus-spent-supper-Pontius-Pilate-claims-just-deciphered-1-200-year-old-Egyptian-manuscript.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Woo Woo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Here's a photo I just took on my evening walk through the picturesque cemetery near my house. It's (I assume) Mother Mary, looking a bit worse from wear, the wood she is carved from having undergone some weathering over the years (or centuries). I'm betting, however, that she's still lookin' hotter than the guy whose grave she graces. The Woo Woo comes from the odd flash of light on the right side of the photo. I have been assured by a local psychic (whom I know to be trustworthy because I had to pay her) that the image on the right is the ghost of the guy whose grave I leaned across to take this photo. He's got a rep in this 'hood for being territorial. Surely the departed couldn't possibly have taken exception to the minister/rabbi gently leaning across his place of rest. It must just be a quirk of the sun playing havoc on the lens. But I liked the photo, I really like wandering through old European graveyards. [http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8312/8015710696_80418b5efd.jpg] http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8312/8015710696_80418b5efd.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8312/8015710696_80418b5efd.jpg
[FairfieldLife] Re: Woo Woo
DD: very cool picture - I have not seen a graveyard statue before carved from wood. PS stop paying the psychic. The ghost's name is, Barry's hand covering the lens. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Here's a photo I just took on my evening walk through the picturesque cemetery near my house. It's (I assume) Mother Mary, looking a bit worse from wear, the wood she is carved from having undergone some weathering over the years (or centuries). I'm betting, however, that she's still lookin' hotter than the guy whose grave she graces. The Woo Woo comes from the odd flash of light on the right side of the photo. I have been assured by a local psychic (whom I know to be trustworthy because I had to pay her) that the image on the right is the ghost of the guy whose grave I leaned across to take this photo. He's got a rep in this 'hood for being territorial. [http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8312/8015710696_80418b5efd.jpg] http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8312/8015710696_80418b5efd.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8312/8015710696_80418b5efd.jpg
