[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Yes, in contrast to dropping hallucinogens hoping for a bio-chemical opening, 'Being' forced through an immature energy system ( a system not ready or properly prepared, even of long term TM'ers) can cause its own problems. It certainly can cause physical movement like you're talking or physical problems manifesting otherwise. Jammed or forcing kundalini shakti through blocked or poorly functioning chakras like a log-jam it may blow through alright but could manifest physical problems and even disease otherwise simply because the system is not clear or functioning properly. Evidently is rooted in lack of proper yoga (Eight limbs, not just transcending). Hmm... in TM aasanam is sthira-sukham. tasmin (there) sati (being) shvaasa-prashvaasayor gati-vicchedaH, aka praaNaayaamaH. As a result of repeating the mantra as instructed by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, pratyaahaara (*sva-vishaya-asaMprayoge* citta-svaruupa-anukaara iva indriyaaNaam) follows, and so on. Only yama and niyama are lacking? :o
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Yes, in contrast to dropping hallucinogens hoping for a bio-chemical opening, 'Being' forced through an immature energy system ( a system not ready or properly prepared, even of long term TM'ers) can cause its own problems. It certainly can cause physical movement like you're talking or physical problems manifesting otherwise. Jammed or forcing kundalini shakti through blocked or poorly functioning chakras like a log-jam it may blow through alright but could manifest physical problems and even disease otherwise simply because the system is not clear or functioning properly. Evidently is rooted in lack of proper yoga (Eight limbs, not just transcending). Hmm... in TM aasanam is sthira-sukham. tasmin (there) sati (being) shvaasa-prashvaasayor gati-vicchedaH, aka praaNaayaamaH. As a result of repeating the mantra as instructed by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, pratyaahaara (*sva-vishaya-asaMprayoge* citta-svaruupa-anukaara iva indriyaaNaam) follows, and so on. Only yama and niyama are lacking? :o That is fine, you've got the TM-yoga catechism down. However, things in the body subtle evidently are not necessarily dealt with in just TM as it is taught. Had real yoga been done it would be much less likely that problems folks are experiencing in the meditating community would not be there. Yes there are the eight limbs of yoga and practicing TM is not entirely that system in itself, as in there may well be more work to do than just TM.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@... wrote: On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 10:58 AM, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: Are you referring to serotonin overdose? I've had that. It's a fascinating experience, but I've never heard of TM or TM-SIdhis practice causing the symptoms I observed: unable to drink even a 1/2 class of water from a tall tumbler because my had shook so much that all the water spilled out before it reached my lips. Unable to type without dozens of mistakes because my fingers were shaking uncontrollably. Drawing a straight line with a pencil was truly interesting --the basic shape was straight, but there was a waviness to the line that was about 1mm high and 1mm long. Fine motor control is non-existent because the serotonin is interfering with muscle feedback. Your mind-body gets into a feedback loop where you over/under compensate motion non-stop. You're considering serotonin syndrome a fascinating experience?I assure you the EMTs pumping half a dozen drugs into your veins to bring down your hypertemp, lesson your nausea, anxiety, vertigo, twitching, blood pressure so high the ER's got the drugs out ready to reverse your stroke should your sky high b.p. make you blow a gasket, your tachycardia, massive flushing and sweating and on and on a fascinating experience? It's not fascinating to the doctors, who call in every specialist in the hospital, use every piece of equipment the regional medical center owns and don't come up with a diagnosis.It can be a frightening and frustrating experience for all around. Fascinating? No. Well, obviously I had a relatively mild case., Of course, given my nearly 40 years TM practice, perhaps I wasn't as susceptible to the BP issues, and anxiety issues. But, as I was at that point taking 8x the normal dosage of prozac, and the symptoms went away when the doctor lowered the prescription, we were reasonably confident that it was SSRI-overdose related L.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 5:07 AM, sparaig lengli...@cox.net wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@... wrote: On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 10:58 AM, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: Are you referring to serotonin overdose? I've had that. It's a fascinating experience, but I've never heard of TM or TM-SIdhis practice causing the symptoms I observed: unable to drink even a 1/2 class of water from a tall tumbler because my had shook so much that all the water spilled out before it reached my lips. Unable to type without dozens of mistakes because my fingers were shaking uncontrollably. Drawing a straight line with a pencil was truly interesting --the basic shape was straight, but there was a waviness to the line that was about 1mm high and 1mm long. Fine motor control is non-existent because the serotonin is interfering with muscle feedback. Your mind-body gets into a feedback loop where you over/under compensate motion non-stop. You're considering serotonin syndrome a fascinating experience?I assure you the EMTs pumping half a dozen drugs into your veins to bring down your hypertemp, lesson your nausea, anxiety, vertigo, twitching, blood pressure so high the ER's got the drugs out ready to reverse your stroke should your sky high b.p. make you blow a gasket, your tachycardia, massive flushing and sweating and on and on a fascinating experience? It's not fascinating to the doctors, who call in every specialist in the hospital, use every piece of equipment the regional medical center owns and don't come up with a diagnosis.It can be a frightening and frustrating experience for all around. Fascinating? No. Well, obviously I had a relatively mild case., Of course, given my nearly 40 years TM practice, perhaps I wasn't as susceptible to the BP issues, and anxiety issues. But, as I was at that point taking 8x the normal dosage of prozac, and the symptoms went away when the doctor lowered the prescription, we were reasonably confident that it was SSRI-overdose related L. Ah, but this particular serotonin syndrome was aka kundalini syndrome. It had nothing to do with MAOIs, SSRI and all those other things which jack serotonin around. It was many years of TM practice, decades of heavy rounding on the sidhis, hours and hours of flying which precipitated the b.p. and anxiety issues. Oh yeah. And lots and lots of yagyas. Daily yagyas for a year or two, weekly yaygas, yagyas with lots of pundits. You know on your third trip to the ER in a week when the triage nurse takes your b.p., usually rock solid normal, when all the blood rushes out of her upper body and she runs to go get a portable defib unit to place on your lap, that this is not all in your head.Nor fascinating. Vaj appears to talk b.s. about the TM Sidhi program but though it sounds like b.s., it's the truth.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
Yeah, though the heavy metal poisoning of ayurvedic medicine is different from this psychedelic central nervous system damage like of ayahuasca. Either way it points to the razor's edge of sound mental-health bio-chemistry. The folks that got metal poisoned neurologically are getting kelated allopathically at some clinics nearby here in the US. Don't know how it is turning out for them individually. There are some old cases around town of people who chowed down faithfully and proly in some excess with access to the old ayurvedic products from India that have manifest neurological diseases. They are notable also because of their old prominence within TM. But that was a self-inflicted metal poisoning for having taken those products. Yet, the ayahausca problem is of a different kind and evidently becoming new-age trendy now. It's sad in a different way from metals poisoning when you run across ayahausca toxicity. It's very un-spiritual. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Ayahuasca toxicity, yes, in some Fairfield meditators too. But generally the toxicity of this stuff is something I've run across in 'seeking'-people otherwise. It can't be unknown because clearly it happens. People wrecking their physiology with Ayahuasca as a neuro-halucinagetic concocted tripping stuff. With folks frying circuits in their nervous systems, discombobulating their mental well-being and dis-integrating or screwing-up their spiritual life big time otherwise. In reading the internet links on Ayahuasca, evidently it seems that 'excited' ayahuasca apologists have sway in most ayahuasca forums and web pages on the larger subject of people wrecking themselves tripping on ayahausca. Of course taking ayahausca is quite a trendy new-age tourist industry obviously conflicted by large PR interests of the people promoting it as something special. Both in Central and South America but also in the Southwest USA. Practically, it would be interesting to see some clinical notes of ambulance paramedics or emergency room psych-diagnosis of ayahuasca 'overdose'. And it would be good to hear about ayahuasca from the experience of ongoing mental health people as they look at it and experience the effects. Clinical experience with it. I would speculate that there must be a mental health wreckage that is dealt with in South America by communities and public health people there. Is it clinically showing up here in the West or Southwest US too? Clearly it is not good for some people as in, too much of a good thing that clearly is un-spiritual in a mental health sort of way. Any reports of how the people are doing who got poisoned with heavy metals from the Indian ayurveda clinic product?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
Yes, in contrast to dropping hallucinogens hoping for a bio-chemical opening, 'Being' forced through an immature energy system ( a system not ready or properly prepared, even of long term TM'ers) can cause its own problems. It certainly can cause physical movement like you're talking or physical problems manifesting otherwise. Jammed or forcing kundalini shakti through blocked or poorly functioning chakras like a log-jam it may blow through alright but could manifest physical problems and even disease otherwise simply because the system is not clear or functioning properly. Evidently is rooted in lack of proper yoga (Eight limbs, not just transcending). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@... wrote: On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 5:07 AM, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@ wrote: On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 10:58 AM, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: Are you referring to serotonin overdose? I've had that. It's a fascinating experience, but I've never heard of TM or TM-SIdhis practice causing the symptoms I observed: unable to drink even a 1/2 class of water from a tall tumbler because my had shook so much that all the water spilled out before it reached my lips. Unable to type without dozens of mistakes because my fingers were shaking uncontrollably. Drawing a straight line with a pencil was truly interesting --the basic shape was straight, but there was a waviness to the line that was about 1mm high and 1mm long. Fine motor control is non-existent because the serotonin is interfering with muscle feedback. Your mind-body gets into a feedback loop where you over/under compensate motion non-stop. You're considering serotonin syndrome a fascinating experience?I assure you the EMTs pumping half a dozen drugs into your veins to bring down your hypertemp, lesson your nausea, anxiety, vertigo, twitching, blood pressure so high the ER's got the drugs out ready to reverse your stroke should your sky high b.p. make you blow a gasket, your tachycardia, massive flushing and sweating and on and on a fascinating experience? It's not fascinating to the doctors, who call in every specialist in the hospital, use every piece of equipment the regional medical center owns and don't come up with a diagnosis.It can be a frightening and frustrating experience for all around. Fascinating? No. Well, obviously I had a relatively mild case., Of course, given my nearly 40 years TM practice, perhaps I wasn't as susceptible to the BP issues, and anxiety issues. But, as I was at that point taking 8x the normal dosage of prozac, and the symptoms went away when the doctor lowered the prescription, we were reasonably confident that it was SSRI-overdose related L. Ah, but this particular serotonin syndrome was aka kundalini syndrome. It had nothing to do with MAOIs, SSRI and all those other things which jack serotonin around. It was many years of TM practice, decades of heavy rounding on the sidhis, hours and hours of flying which precipitated the b.p. and anxiety issues. Oh yeah. And lots and lots of yagyas. Daily yagyas for a year or two, weekly yaygas, yagyas with lots of pundits. You know on your third trip to the ER in a week when the triage nurse takes your b.p., usually rock solid normal, when all the blood rushes out of her upper body and she runs to go get a portable defib unit to place on your lap, that this is not all in your head.Nor fascinating. Vaj appears to talk b.s. about the TM Sidhi program but though it sounds like b.s., it's the truth.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
Ayahuasca toxicity, yes, in some Fairfield meditators too. But generally the toxicity of this stuff is something I've run across in 'seeking'-people otherwise. It can't be unknown because clearly it happens. People wrecking their physiology with Ayahuasca as a neuro-halucinagetic concocted tripping stuff. With folks frying circuits in their nervous systems, discombobulating their mental well-being and dis-integrating or screwing-up their spiritual life big time otherwise. In reading the internet links on Ayahuasca, evidently it seems that 'excited' ayahuasca apologists have sway in most ayahuasca forums and web pages on the larger subject of people wrecking themselves tripping on ayahausca. Of course taking ayahausca is quite a trendy new-age tourist industry obviously conflicted by large PR interests of the people promoting it as something special. Both in Central and South America but also in the Southwest USA. Practically, it would be interesting to see some clinical notes of ambulance paramedics or emergency room psych-diagnosis of ayahuasca 'overdose'. And it would be good to hear about ayahuasca from the experience of ongoing mental health people as they look at it and experience the effects. Clinical experience with it. I would speculate that there must be a mental health wreckage that is dealt with in South America by communities and public health people there. Is it clinically showing up here in the West or Southwest US too? Clearly it is not good for some people as in, too much of a good thing that clearly is un-spiritual in a mental health sort of way. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Buck Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 1:21 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Ayahuasca Toxicology Ayahuasca as a neuro-toxin, anybody have experience with this? We've been running into people with this. They've tried ayahuasca hoping for spiritual experience and have instead fried their nervous systems. Wondering, is neuro-damage also become a public health problem along with ayahuasca use in Central and South America? Sort of like people can wreck their nervous systems with meth and such. Some folks evidently are having some very un-spiritual disassociation troubles from using it and are trying to put themselves back together psycho-physiologically. Looking on the internet everything is rosie about Ayahuasca. Seems there is an under-belly of Ayahuasca. Just wondering. Anybody have experience with the toxicology? -Buck Are you talking about Fairfield people?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Ayahuasca toxicity, yes, in some Fairfield meditators too. But generally the toxicity of this stuff is something I've run across in 'seeking'-people otherwise. It can't be unknown because clearly it happens. People wrecking their physiology with Ayahuasca as a neuro-halucinagetic concocted tripping stuff. With folks frying circuits in their nervous systems, discombobulating their mental well-being and dis-integrating or screwing-up their spiritual life big time otherwise. In reading the internet links on Ayahuasca, evidently it seems that 'excited' ayahuasca apologists have sway in most ayahuasca forums and web pages on the larger subject of people wrecking themselves tripping on ayahausca. Of course taking ayahausca is quite a trendy new-age tourist industry obviously conflicted by large PR interests of the people promoting it as something special. Both in Central and South America but also in the Southwest USA. Practically, it would be interesting to see some clinical notes of ambulance paramedics or emergency room psych-diagnosis of ayahuasca 'overdose'. And it would be good to hear about ayahuasca from the experience of ongoing mental health people as they look at it and experience the effects. Clinical experience with it. I would speculate that there must be a mental health wreckage that is dealt with in South America by communities and public health people there. Is it clinically showing up here in the West or Southwest US too? Clearly it is not good for some people as in, too much of a good thing that clearly is un-spiritual in a mental health sort of way. Any reports of how the people are doing who got poisoned with heavy metals from the Indian ayurveda clinic product?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jun 29, 2011, at 7:36 PM, whynotnow7 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: TM and the TM-Sidhi program has created neurotoxic reactions in numerous TMers, do you have any info or research findings on That? For some peculiar reason, feel the need to describe - in my 200 or so active words of English, LoL! - the most striking case of unstressing I know of, possibly as a result of the siddhis. So, any day soon, might write about it in my blog: Pinsiön Paronin Jälkeen-jääneet Paperit (ppjp: Posthumous Papers of the Baron of Pinsiö - a village[?] of the small town of Nokia, Finland.) Well, uh, decided not to that! Some naathas here might exaggerate and distort what I'd've written! :o
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Jun 30, 2011, at 10:58 AM, sparaig wrote: Are you referring to serotonin overdose? No I wasn't. OK, so which neurotoxin overdose resulting from TM/TM-Sidhis practice were you talking about then? L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: TM and the TM-Sidhi program has created neurotoxic reactions in numerous TMers, do you have any info or research findings on That? You being a supposed former practitioner of both programs, do you also imagine spiders crawling on you, Vaj? Wash your hands two dozen times or more a day? Snug down that tinfoil cap dude. Remember just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. Very funny Jim. But seriously this guy's every post nowadays has the following keywords - research, TM and pick your favorite disease. And oddly they have taken the shape of pleas and requests and some times outright begging other people - anyone. Let's try an experiment - make a post on FFL with a fake id and with an anti-TM slant and I bet the first response would be from Vaj begging/pleading/requesting to share research on TM's effect in creating pick your favorite disease. The second response - yep, you guessed it from Barry with a rant about you or I or Judy. Very pathetic if you think about it. At least he's stopped his one-trick parrot choking routines on his scripture The Vakra Gita (the mighty twisted scripture).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Jun 29, 2011, at 7:36 PM, whynotnow7 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: TM and the TM-Sidhi program has created neurotoxic reactions in numerous TMers, do you have any info or research findings on That? For some peculiar reason, feel the need to describe - in my 200 or so active words of English, LoL! - the most striking case of unstressing I know of, possibly as a result of the siddhis. So, any day soon, might write about it in my blog: Pinsiön Paronin Jälkeen-jääneet Paperit (ppjp: Posthumous Papers of the Baron of Pinsiö - a village[?] of the small town of Nokia, Finland.)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jun 29, 2011, at 7:36 PM, whynotnow7 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: TM and the TM-Sidhi program has created neurotoxic reactions in numerous TMers, do you have any info or research findings on That? For some peculiar reason, feel the need to describe - in my 200 or so active words of English, LoL! - the most striking case of unstressing I know of, possibly as a result of the siddhis. So, any day soon, might write about it in my blog: Pinsiön Paronin Jälkeen-jääneet Paperit (ppjp: Posthumous Papers of the Baron of Pinsiö - a village[?] of the small town of Nokia, Finland.) Does your vocabulary include the words Vedic and God? Could these two words combined be somehow the cause of this neurotoxin reaction problem?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
Obviously neurotoxic reactions presenting in both patients, Dr. Ravi. Do you concur? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raviyogi2009 raviyogi@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: TM and the TM-Sidhi program has created neurotoxic reactions in numerous TMers, do you have any info or research findings on That? You being a supposed former practitioner of both programs, do you also imagine spiders crawling on you, Vaj? Wash your hands two dozen times or more a day? Snug down that tinfoil cap dude. Remember just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. Very funny Jim. But seriously this guy's every post nowadays has the following keywords - research, TM and pick your favorite disease. And oddly they have taken the shape of pleas and requests and some times outright begging other people - anyone. Let's try an experiment - make a post on FFL with a fake id and with an anti-TM slant and I bet the first response would be from Vaj begging/pleading/requesting to share research on TM's effect in creating pick your favorite disease. The second response - yep, you guessed it from Barry with a rant about you or I or Judy. Very pathetic if you think about it. At least he's stopped his one-trick parrot choking routines on his scripture The Vakra Gita (the mighty twisted scripture).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
Yes I concur, classic PTMSD - Post TM Stress Disorder. I mean picture this - a dirty, old, obviously homeless guy accosts you on the streets of Fairfield, haggles you for research on TM causing neurotoxic reactions and you go - OMG, Vaj is that you??? and he beats a hasty retreat..LOL.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Obviously neurotoxic reactions presenting in both patients, Dr. Ravi. Do you concur? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raviyogi2009 raviyogi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: TM and the TM-Sidhi program has created neurotoxic reactions in numerous TMers, do you have any info or research findings on That? You being a supposed former practitioner of both programs, do you also imagine spiders crawling on you, Vaj? Wash your hands two dozen times or more a day? Snug down that tinfoil cap dude. Remember just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. Very funny Jim. But seriously this guy's every post nowadays has the following keywords - research, TM and pick your favorite disease. And oddly they have taken the shape of pleas and requests and some times outright begging other people - anyone. Let's try an experiment - make a post on FFL with a fake id and with an anti-TM slant and I bet the first response would be from Vaj begging/pleading/requesting to share research on TM's effect in creating pick your favorite disease. The second response - yep, you guessed it from Barry with a rant about you or I or Judy. Very pathetic if you think about it. At least he's stopped his one-trick parrot choking routines on his scripture The Vakra Gita (the mighty twisted scripture).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
I can think of very little that would be less satisfying to me than to sit on a forum and dispense rumors and stories about a spiritual technique and teacher that I don't have any personal involvement with. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: Yes I concur, classic PTMSD - Post TM Stress Disorder. I mean picture this - a dirty, old, obviously homeless guy accosts you on the streets of Fairfield, haggles you for research on TM causing neurotoxic reactions and you go - OMG, Vaj is that you??? and he beats a hasty retreat..LOL.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Obviously neurotoxic reactions presenting in both patients, Dr. Ravi. Do you concur? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raviyogi2009 raviyogi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: TM and the TM-Sidhi program has created neurotoxic reactions in numerous TMers, do you have any info or research findings on That? You being a supposed former practitioner of both programs, do you also imagine spiders crawling on you, Vaj? Wash your hands two dozen times or more a day? Snug down that tinfoil cap dude. Remember just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. Very funny Jim. But seriously this guy's every post nowadays has the following keywords - research, TM and pick your favorite disease. And oddly they have taken the shape of pleas and requests and some times outright begging other people - anyone. Let's try an experiment - make a post on FFL with a fake id and with an anti-TM slant and I bet the first response would be from Vaj begging/pleading/requesting to share research on TM's effect in creating pick your favorite disease. The second response - yep, you guessed it from Barry with a rant about you or I or Judy. Very pathetic if you think about it. At least he's stopped his one-trick parrot choking routines on his scripture The Vakra Gita (the mighty twisted scripture).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Jun 29, 2011, at 2:20 PM, Buck wrote: Ayahuasca as a neuro-toxin, anybody have experience with this? We've been running into people with this. They've tried ayahuasca hoping for spiritual experience and have instead fried their nervous systems. Wondering, is neuro-damage also become a public health problem along with ayahuasca use in Central and South America? Sort of like people can wreck their nervous systems with meth and such. Some folks evidently are having some very un-spiritual disassociation troubles from using it and are trying to put themselves back together psycho-physiologically. Looking on the internet everything is rosie about Ayahuasca. Seems there is an under-belly of Ayahuasca. Just wondering. Anybody have experience with the toxicology? TM and the TM-Sidhi program has created neurotoxic reactions in numerous TMers, do you have any info or research findings on That? Are you referring to serotonin overdose? I've had that. It's a fascinating experience, but I've never heard of TM or TM-SIdhis practice causing the symptoms I observed: unable to drink even a 1/2 class of water from a tall tumbler because my had shook so much that all the water spilled out before it reached my lips. Unable to type without dozens of mistakes because my fingers were shaking uncontrollably. Drawing a straight line with a pencil was truly interesting --the basic shape was straight, but there was a waviness to the line that was about 1mm high and 1mm long. Fine motor control is non-existent because the serotonin is interfering with muscle feedback. Your mind-body gets into a feedback loop where you over/under compensate motion non-stop. L.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
On Jun 30, 2011, at 10:58 AM, sparaig wrote: Are you referring to serotonin overdose? No I wasn't.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
Are you referring to serotonin overdose? Vaj: No I wasn't. Any kind of decoction could be termed 'ayahusca', which is probably similar to the Vedic Soma. The secret ingredients were probably lost long before the Vedic Age. In South America there are all kinds of decoctions that have been invented since the arrival of humans. But, apparently, the secret of the Soma decoction has been lost since well before 1500 B.C. when the Aryans migrated from Persia into India. Ever since then, various substitutes have been developed in India, up to and including, Yoga, which apparently stimulates the production of Seratonin in the brain, which in turn produces a marked sense of well-being. Read more: Subject: Toadstools and the Eternal Return Author: Willytex Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental, alt.meditation, alt.yoga Date: February 20, 2004 http://tinyurl.com/6bp25tj
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardjwilliamstexas willytex@... wrote: Are you referring to serotonin overdose? Vaj: No I wasn't. Any kind of decoction could be termed 'ayahusca', which is probably similar to the Vedic Soma. The secret ingredients were probably lost long before the Vedic Age. In South America there are all kinds of decoctions that have been invented since the arrival of humans. But, apparently, the secret of the Soma decoction has been lost since well before 1500 B.C. when the Aryans migrated from Persia into India. According to Bal Gangadhar Tilak, they moved originally from the North Pole: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arctic_Home_in_the_Vedas
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 10:58 AM, sparaig lengli...@cox.net wrote: Are you referring to serotonin overdose? I've had that. It's a fascinating experience, but I've never heard of TM or TM-SIdhis practice causing the symptoms I observed: unable to drink even a 1/2 class of water from a tall tumbler because my had shook so much that all the water spilled out before it reached my lips. Unable to type without dozens of mistakes because my fingers were shaking uncontrollably. Drawing a straight line with a pencil was truly interesting --the basic shape was straight, but there was a waviness to the line that was about 1mm high and 1mm long. Fine motor control is non-existent because the serotonin is interfering with muscle feedback. Your mind-body gets into a feedback loop where you over/under compensate motion non-stop. You're considering serotonin syndrome a fascinating experience?I assure you the EMTs pumping half a dozen drugs into your veins to bring down your hypertemp, lesson your nausea, anxiety, vertigo, twitching, blood pressure so high the ER's got the drugs out ready to reverse your stroke should your sky high b.p. make you blow a gasket, your tachycardia, massive flushing and sweating and on and on a fascinating experience? It's not fascinating to the doctors, who call in every specialist in the hospital, use every piece of equipment the regional medical center owns and don't come up with a diagnosis.It can be a frightening and frustrating experience for all around. Fascinating? No.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
But, apparently, the secret of the Soma decoction has been lost since well before 1500 B.C. when the Aryans migrated from Persia into India. cardemaister: According to Bal Gangadhar Tilak, they moved originally from the North Pole: According to the David Frawley, the Aryans speakers came out of South Asia and migrated to the North Pole by way of Siberia. Then, after several centuries, they migrated back to South Asia, taking their language and their Soma decoction with them on their return. But, due to the long lapse of time, the Aryan speakers forgot the recipe for Soma. The original Soma ingredients do not grow in South Asia. So, the question is, did the Aryan speaking people come from outside India? More questions: The Aryans who composed the Vedas were akin to the same Aryans who occupied the Caucasus. Previously, these people lived in Siberia, but when the last ice age forced them to seek warmer climes after living for many years in Siberia? Isn't there a strange affinity between Finnish and Sanskrit? The Indo-European languages: Broadly speaking, the Indo-European, left-written, language group includes Celtic, (Gaulish, Irish, Welsh, Breton, etc.) since the La Tene Iron Age, 500-1 B.C.; Italic (Latin and the Romance languages, etc.); the Germanic languages (Scandanavian, English, Dutch, German, etc.); the Baltic languages (Old Prussian, Lithuanian, Latvian, etc.); the Slavic languages (Polish, Chezh, Slovak, Serbo-Croatian, Bulgarian, Russian, Ukranian, Albanian, etc.); Greek (from the Bronze Age circa 1300 B.C.); Armenian (1900 B.C.); Indo-Iranian (Sanskrit, Old Persian, Avestan) and Tocharian of Chinese Turkestan. Reference: The Oxford Companion to Archaelogy Edited by Brian M. Fagan Oxford University Press, 1996 Read more: Subject: Out of Siberia and into India Author: Willytex Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: January 12, 2005 http://tinyurl.com/yftgbs3
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
I've never experienced it personally, but knew a few in Santa Fe who had. One was a one-time girlfriend of Tim Leary, who had done it with him. Neither struck me as models of what I would call in touch with reality. That said, based on my own experiments with Better Living Through Chemistry in the 60s, I suspect that what one brings to hallucinogens is more important that what they bring to us. Some had bad trips with LSD. I never did. True, I was fortunate in that all of my trips came from a bottle with Sandoz on the label, but I tripped with other people who freaked out during and were never quite the same afterwards, and that never happened to me, even though we had ingested the same hallucinogen. ( Some on this forum might dispute this. :-) I was, in fact, among the hippies with whom I ran a light show and promoted rock 'n roll, always considered The Maintainer. If the cops arrived at one of our gigs, I was the one they sicced on them, and I always managed to do so with some modicum of real-world maintenance. I remember one night when the drug squad from the Riverside police department arrived at one of our concerts on the UCR campus and sought help from us (the promoters) in trying to track down students who might be users. As usual, I was the person assigned to helping them in their appointed task. I walked them through the room, carefully pointing out guys and gals who could not have possibly been more Beach Boys straight if their lives had depended on it, saying to the cops, How about them? They certainly look like stoners to me. I did this for about an hour, and the cops were buying every word of it. I was tripping on 500 real micrograms of Sandoz acid at the time. Go figure. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Ayahuasca as a neuro-toxin, anybody have experience with this? We've been running into people with this. They've tried ayahuasca hoping for spiritual experience and have instead fried their nervous systems. Wondering, is neuro-damage also become a public health problem along with ayahuasca use in Central and South America? Sort of like people can wreck their nervous systems with meth and such. Some folks evidently are having some very un-spiritual disassociation troubles from using it and are trying to put themselves back together psycho-physiologically. Looking on the internet everything is rosie about Ayahuasca. Seems there is an under-belly of Ayahuasca. Just wondering. Anybody have experience with the toxicology? -Buck
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Ayahuasca as a neuro-toxin, anybody have experience with this? We've been running into people with this. They've tried ayahuasca hoping for spiritual experience and have instead fried their nervous systems. Where did they get the ayahuasca? There apparently are a lot of fake versions available, and these may contain contaminants. Wondering, is neuro-damage also become a public health problem along with ayahuasca use in Central and South America? Doesn't seem to have. Since ayahuasca is part of their tradition, they probably don't mess around with anything but the real deal, which is easily available. Sort of like people can wreck their nervous systems with meth and such. Some folks evidently are having some very un-spiritual disassociation troubles from using it and are trying to put themselves back together psycho-physiologically. Is that the only symptom, dissociation? I assume you mean they're experiencing dissociation long after the drug has worn off, right? Looking on the internet everything is rosie about Ayahuasca. Seems there is an under-belly of Ayahuasca. Probably not for real ayahuasca. Its use is really ancient. There's some evidence of it from as far back as 2000 BC. Natives were doing it when the Spanish arrived in the 16th century. That makes it unlikely that it has seriously negative effects. Might want to take a look at some of the material on the ayahuasca.com Web site. Obviously it's pro-ayahusaca, but it also seems pretty down-to-earth. Here's one very detailed article by an ethnopharmacology expert: http://www.ayahuasca.com/science/the-scientific-investigation-of-ayahuasca-a-review-of-past-and-current-research/ http://tinyurl.com/3dcrphw There's a bunch of other scientific studies as well. Just wondering. Anybody have experience with the toxicology? -Buck
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: TM and the TM-Sidhi program has created neurotoxic reactions in numerous TMers, do you have any info or research findings on That? You being a supposed former practitioner of both programs, do you also imagine spiders crawling on you, Vaj? Wash your hands two dozen times or more a day? Snug down that tinfoil cap dude. Remember just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
Buck: Ayahuasca as a neuro-toxin, anybody have experience with this? Oh yeah, but down here people usually just smoke their DMT. LoL!!!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
On Jun 29, 2011, at 7:36 PM, whynotnow7 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: TM and the TM-Sidhi program has created neurotoxic reactions in numerous TMers, do you have any info or research findings on That? You being a supposed former practitioner of both programs, do you also imagine spiders crawling on you, Vaj? No, why - do you? [strange] Wash your hands two dozen times or more a day? No, again I have no such OCD tendencies - if that's what you're presuming? Snug down that tinfoil cap dude. Remember just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. Thanks. Sadly on your count, that didn't happen to be one of my personal worries. Sorry if I disappointed!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
On Jun 29, 2011, at 8:59 PM, richardjwilliamstexas wrote: Buck: Ayahuasca as a neuro-toxin, anybody have experience with this? Oh yeah, but down here people usually just smoke their DMT. LoL!!! Oh well, at least they have a respect for time, no? A 20 minute trip is a businessman's trip. It's also apropos for many others not needing or appreciating 8 hour long trips I mean if you can be all said and done in a lunch hour, doesn't that demand a new lunch of sorts?
