[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > Barry's here in the first place because he could > > > no longer get away with his lies and bullshit on > > > alt.m.t; everyone there is wise to him. The folks > > > here have been proving to him that he can still fool > > > people with his fraudulent act. > > > > I am not clear on the proof. > > As I said above: > > > > You speak up occasionally; Lawson and Shemp, who > > > know Barry from alt.m.t, do occasionally; but > > > that's it. Everyone else is deferential to him > > > and far more likely to jump on me for calling him > > > on his falsehoods than on him for telling them. > > I think you have won. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Unc plays loose with the truth. No argument. He is a great BSer. > Learned from the feet of greats. (DF) As I posted earlier today, my > view is that his posts are a great put on - a satire -- an Andy > Kauffmanesque spoof on our foibles. (And you will have to decide if > I am spoofing you in this.) Yes, I've decided. > So even given his horrid traits ( :) ), there is a kernal of good in > everyone. He is a living lesson of seeing past surface flaws. No question. That's why his act is so sad. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > Barry's here in the first place because he could > > no longer get away with his lies and bullshit on > > alt.m.t; everyone there is wise to him. The folks > > here have been proving to him that he can still fool > > people with his fraudulent act. > > I am not clear on the proof. As I said above: > > You speak up occasionally; Lawson and Shemp, who > > know Barry from alt.m.t, do occasionally; but > > that's it. Everyone else is deferential to him > > and far more likely to jump on me for calling him > > on his falsehoods than on him for telling them. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff > [...] > > Unc plays loose with the truth. No argument. He is a great BSer. > > Learned from the feet of greats. (DF) As I posted earlier today, my > > view is that his posts are a great put on - a satire -- an Andy > > Kauffmanesque spoof on our foibles. (And you will have to decide if > I > > am spoofing you in this.) > > > > Regardless, Unc has some redeeming qualities. He appreciates Bob > Dylan > > deeply. As do I. He apprciates Bruce Cockburn as do I. He > appreciates > > great film deeply (not movies) as do I. And, oddly :) as does Shemp. > > He appreciates the French, as do I -- having lived there in the very > > early 70's. He appreciates great writing, as do I. He appreciates > > great SIMS women of yesteryear as do I. He appreciates humor and a > sly > > twinkle of wit as do I. > > > > So even given his horrid traits ( :) ), there is a kernal of good in > > everyone. He is a living lesson of seeing past surface flaws. > > > > :) > > > > Dig dem shiny teeth! Yes, He does have pearly white teeth. And his ex wife had way shinier white teeth and dazzling smile. So since she once gave him the time of day, I give him the time of day. And some respect. (no disrespect unc -- all glory to K. --- and past days.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [...] > Yes, he consistently gives examples, as you say, of Rush and > O'Reilly lies. But that's the point: if he can properly document > their "lies" he doesn't have to keep telling us that they are "lies" > and that they are "liars". But he does...and that detracts from the > points he may score by proper documentation. > As you say, he's in the same tradition as those he attacks. He gives his audience what they want to hear. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [...] > Unc plays loose with the truth. No argument. He is a great BSer. > Learned from the feet of greats. (DF) As I posted earlier today, my > view is that his posts are a great put on - a satire -- an Andy > Kauffmanesque spoof on our foibles. (And you will have to decide if I > am spoofing you in this.) > > Regardless, Unc has some redeeming qualities. He appreciates Bob Dylan > deeply. As do I. He apprciates Bruce Cockburn as do I. He appreciates > great film deeply (not movies) as do I. And, oddly :) as does Shemp. > He appreciates the French, as do I -- having lived there in the very > early 70's. He appreciates great writing, as do I. He appreciates > great SIMS women of yesteryear as do I. He appreciates humor and a sly > twinkle of wit as do I. > > So even given his horrid traits ( :) ), there is a kernal of good in > everyone. He is a living lesson of seeing past surface flaws. > > :) > Dig dem shiny teeth! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > Yes. loved her in a number of films. Last Days of Disco, comes to > mind, along with Kate B. -- nailed late 70's girls, IMO. Barry -- the > man-- opinion's pending. Amd Melinda and Melinda. Have you seen it? Woody Allen is SO great on concept (and cinemtography) ,we can excuse him a bit on execution. Even though the end result is usually miles above the formula schlock of hollywood MOVIES. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" shempmcgurk@ > > wrote: > > > Whenever I heard him on the radio (Air America no longer airs in > > > Phoenix) he consistently called those he was criticizing -- foremost > > > almongst them Rush Limbaugh whom he devoted a weekly hour to -- > > > "liars". > > > > > > Yes, he consistently gives examples, as you say, of Rush and > > > O'Reilly lies. > > Which is what I thought you wanted. But I am seeking to find commomn > > ground. Not to argue. > > > > > But that's the point: if he can properly document > > > their "lies" he doesn't have to keep telling us that they are "lies" > > > and that they are "liars". > > > > Which is what Judy does with Unc. And I have raised your same argument > > to her. "no need to infinitly repeat". But she sees a need to. And I > > respect that. I don't need to understand that, or agree with that, but > > I have enough respect for her, that if she sees the need for continual > > updating that Unc is loose with the truth, let her do her thing. > > > > But he does...and that detracts from the > > > points he may score by proper documentation. > > > > I don't disagree. But both Judy and Al appreciate the need for > > reptition. Thats not my thing (well sometimes. you snickering > > bastards. :)) So I respect the Wisdom of Crowds. A great read. I may > > not agree, but diverse, independent views, other than my own, are > > powerful. > > > > Again, not arguing with you. Just providing another POV. And we both > > appreciate Chloe. Why urgue? :). (Do you like Zooey Dechanel? I am > > currently watching an obscure film of hers.) > > > > > I love Chloë and will go out of my way to see anything she's > in...she's terrific in "Big Love", although I'm having a hard time > really liking the whole premise of the series. > > ...loved Zooey Dechanel in "The Good Girl", the Jennifer Aniston > independent film, but that's pretty much all I've seen her in. Yes. loved her in a number of films. Last Days of Disco, comes to mind, along with Kate B. -- nailed late 70's girls, IMO. Barry -- the man-- opinion's pending. But I am a HUGE Whit Stillman fan. (Metropolitan, Barcelona,and Last Days of Disco). > Which is the obscure film? All the Pretty Girls. Netflix along with IMDB is great way to view entire filomography of an actor or director, or even set designers (gotta love the sets of Gattaca, amongst many others) See. We have common ground. We can relate as people. And differ as people, on occaision. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" shempmcgurk@ > wrote: > > Whenever I heard him on the radio (Air America no longer airs in > > Phoenix) he consistently called those he was criticizing -- foremost > > almongst them Rush Limbaugh whom he devoted a weekly hour to -- > > "liars". > > > > Yes, he consistently gives examples, as you say, of Rush and > > O'Reilly lies. > Which is what I thought you wanted. But I am seeking to find commomn > ground. Not to argue. > > > But that's the point: if he can properly document > > their "lies" he doesn't have to keep telling us that they are "lies" > > and that they are "liars". > > Which is what Judy does with Unc. And I have raised your same argument > to her. "no need to infinitly repeat". But she sees a need to. And I > respect that. I don't need to understand that, or agree with that, but > I have enough respect for her, that if she sees the need for continual > updating that Unc is loose with the truth, let her do her thing. > > But he does...and that detracts from the > > points he may score by proper documentation. > > I don't disagree. But both Judy and Al appreciate the need for > reptition. Thats not my thing (well sometimes. you snickering > bastards. :)) So I respect the Wisdom of Crowds. A great read. I may > not agree, but diverse, independent views, other than my own, are > powerful. > > Again, not arguing with you. Just providing another POV. And we both > appreciate Chloe. Why urgue? :). (Do you like Zooey Dechanel? I am > currently watching an obscure film of hers.) > I love Chloë and will go out of my way to see anything she's in...she's terrific in "Big Love", although I'm having a hard time really liking the whole premise of the series. ...loved Zooey Dechanel in "The Good Girl", the Jennifer Aniston independent film, but that's pretty much all I've seen her in. Which is the obscure film? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Whenever I heard him on the radio (Air America no longer airs in > Phoenix) he consistently called those he was criticizing -- foremost > almongst them Rush Limbaugh whom he devoted a weekly hour to -- > "liars". > > Yes, he consistently gives examples, as you say, of Rush and > O'Reilly lies. Which is what I thought you wanted. But I am seeking to find commomn ground. Not to argue. > But that's the point: if he can properly document > their "lies" he doesn't have to keep telling us that they are "lies" > and that they are "liars". Which is what Judy does with Unc. And I have raised your same argument to her. "no need to infinitly repeat". But she sees a need to. And I respect that. I don't need to understand that, or agree with that, but I have enough respect for her, that if she sees the need for continual updating that Unc is loose with the truth, let her do her thing. But he does...and that detracts from the > points he may score by proper documentation. I don't disagree. But both Judy and Al appreciate the need for reptition. Thats not my thing (well sometimes. you snickering bastards. :)) So I respect the Wisdom of Crowds. A great read. I may not agree, but diverse, independent views, other than my own, are powerful. Again, not arguing with you. Just providing another POV. And we both appreciate Chloe. Why urgue? :). (Do you like Zooey Dechanel? I am currently watching an obscure film of hers.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > > I've always thought that if you wanted to point out that someone is > > a liar then it's more powerful to SHOW how that person is a liar > > rather than to TELL everyone that that person is a liar. > > How about doing both (which is what I do)? > In my opinion the telling takes away from the showing, leaving you with a less powerful argument. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff > > wrote: > > > > > > I have always been uncomfortable with Judy's characterization of > > Unc > > > as a liar. Certainly in the realm of Unc's posts, his relationship > > > with truth is loose, dismissive and distant -- perhaps like a > > quick > > > one-night stand with Lady Truth. And sometimes he appears to cast > > her > > > as a submissive that he likes to chain and have his way with -- > > after > > > donning his Dom leathers. > > > > > > > > > > I've always thought that if you wanted to point out that someone is > > a liar then it's more powerful to SHOW how that person is a liar > > rather than to TELL everyone that that person is a liar. > > Well then you have 1000 Judy posts, which after the first 15 get > tedious for me. > > I guess you are not addressing my post, though you reposted it, since > I of course said Unc was not a liar. Do you want examples of that - - > that he is not a liar? (proving a negative) > > You must not read many posts if you do not find Unc's relationship > with truth is loose, dismissive and distant. Or if you do read them > all, and don't find that, I am quite surprised at your reading > comprehension skills, but move on. I am not going to spoon feed you. > > What I find of interest are frameworks that provide insight. I found > the author's distinction between lying and bullshitting a useful > insight. The primary point of my post was that the author's framework > is insightul,IMO. > > And in my view, Unc provides ample and good examples of the author's > point. If in your reading of Unc, you don't see it, fine. Move on. > > But I posted the above as a humor piece. You may not enjoy the humor. > Fine. Move on. But you would have to be quite asleep at the wheel to > not recognize the following as falling into the humor category. > > "his relationship with truth is loose, dismissive and distant -- > perhaps like a quick one-night stand with Lady Truth. And sometimes > he appears to cast her as a submissive that he likes to chain and > have his way with -- after donning his Dom leathers." > > I imagine unc got a big laugh at that, and I expect some > (attempted)witty slam from him soon. Its a way some people converse -- > trading witty and hopefully insightful barbs. It busts egos, makes all > involved laugh, particularly at oneself, and sometimes gives one > insight into ones own (warped) behavior. What a great thing! > > > As soon as > > someone tells me that someone is a liar, they are disrespecting me > > That implies we had respect in the first place. Someone can't take > away something you have not yet established. > > > because they are not allowing me to come to that conclusion > > myself...and when I am SHOWN the facts and allowed to come to that > > conclusion by myself, then the result is all that more powerful. > > Thats what the Socratic method does. And I am a big fan of that. But > its not the only way to approach making a point and communicating. > > > Al Franken consistently calls Rush a liar; well, he may be but show > > me don't tell me. So, to me, Al and Rush are two sides to the same > > coin. > > Al Franken consistently gives examples of Rush and O'Reilly lies. Just > listen to him. Or read him. Its amazing that you could gloss over his > stuff so quickly as to miss it. > The man wrote a book called "Lies and the lying liars who tell them". Whenever I heard him on the radio (Air America no longer airs in Phoenix) he consistently called those he was criticizing -- foremost almongst them Rush Limbaugh whom he devoted a weekly hour to -- "liars". Yes, he consistently gives examples, as you say, of Rush and O'Reilly lies. But that's the point: if he can properly document their "lies" he doesn't have to keep telling us that they are "lies" and that they are "liars". But he does...and that detracts from the points he may score by proper documentation. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > And how about once. Or a few times. :) > > > > > > > > > > Or do you reckon we are so dense we didn't get it the first > > time. Or > > > > > the third and fourth time. > > > > > > > > He doesn't tell the same lie each time. > > > > > > So perhaps we sense a pattern. Perhaps no need to keep plugging in > > > specifics to maintain the generalization. > > > > Why should I make that assumption? > > ok. "We" is speculation. One data point. me. I see the patttern, Even > without you pointing it out. > > > > > You speak up occasionally; Lawson and Shemp, who > > know Barry from alt.m.t, do occasionally; but > > that's it. Everyone else is deferential to him > > and far more likely to jump on me for calling him > > on his falsehoods than on him for telling them. > > > > As I say, it just boggles my mind that it's > > tolerated. And FFL is supposed to be a satsang?? > > > > Barry's here in the first place because he could > > no longer get away with his lies and bullshit on > > alt.m.t; everyone there is wise to him. The folks > > here have been proving to him that he can still fool > > people with his fraudulent act. > > I am not clear on the proof. > > >They're enablers. > > > > In my opinion, that is exactly what he *doesn't* > > need. > > ok. As I said, I am not arguing. Just raising options. > > > > > He's been doing that act for at least a > > decade, using it as cover to take out his personal > > frustrations on other people. It's like a drug > > that allows him to avoid having to face himself and > > his life. And it's just so incredibly *ugly*, and > > so sad, especially given that he pretends to be so > > spiritual. > > > Ok. you will do what you need to do. Unc plays loose with the truth. No argument. He is a great BSer. Learned from the feet of greats. (DF) As I posted earlier today, my view is that his posts are a great put on - a satire -- an Andy Kauffmanesque spoof on our foibles. (And you will have to decide if I am spoofing you in this.) Regardless, Unc has some redeeming qualities. He appreciates Bob Dylan deeply. As do I. He apprciates Bruce Cockburn as do I. He appreciates great film deeply (not movies) as do I. And, oddly :) as does Shemp. He appreciates the French, as do I -- having lived there in the very early 70's. He appreciates great writing, as do I. He appreciates great SIMS women of yesteryear as do I. He appreciates humor and a sly twinkle of wit as do I. So even given his horrid traits ( :) ), there is a kernal of good in everyone. He is a living lesson of seeing past surface flaws. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff > wrote: > > > > > > > > And how about once. Or a few times. :) > > > > > > > > Or do you reckon we are so dense we didn't get it the first > time. Or > > > > the third and fourth time. > > > > > > He doesn't tell the same lie each time. > > > > So perhaps we sense a pattern. Perhaps no need to keep plugging in > > specifics to maintain the generalization. > > Why should I make that assumption? ok. "We" is speculation. One data point. me. I see the patttern, Even without you pointing it out. > > You speak up occasionally; Lawson and Shemp, who > know Barry from alt.m.t, do occasionally; but > that's it. Everyone else is deferential to him > and far more likely to jump on me for calling him > on his falsehoods than on him for telling them. > > As I say, it just boggles my mind that it's > tolerated. And FFL is supposed to be a satsang?? > > Barry's here in the first place because he could > no longer get away with his lies and bullshit on > alt.m.t; everyone there is wise to him. The folks > here have been proving to him that he can still fool > people with his fraudulent act. I am not clear on the proof. >They're enablers. > > In my opinion, that is exactly what he *doesn't* > need. ok. As I said, I am not arguing. Just raising options. > He's been doing that act for at least a > decade, using it as cover to take out his personal > frustrations on other people. It's like a drug > that allows him to avoid having to face himself and > his life. And it's just so incredibly *ugly*, and > so sad, especially given that he pretends to be so > spiritual. Ok. you will do what you need to do. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I've always thought that if you wanted to point out that > > someone is > > > > > a liar then it's more powerful to SHOW how that person is a > > liar > > > > > rather than to TELL everyone that that person is a liar. > > > > > > > > How about doing both (which is what I do)? > > > > > > And how about once. Or a few times. :) > > > > > > Or do you reckon we are so dense we didn't get it the first time. Or > > > the third and fourth time. > > > > He doesn't tell the same lie each time. > > So perhaps we sense a pattern. Perhaps no need to keep plugging in > specifics to maintain the generalization. Why should I make that assumption? You speak up occasionally; Lawson and Shemp, who know Barry from alt.m.t, do occasionally; but that's it. Everyone else is deferential to him and far more likely to jump on me for calling him on his falsehoods than on him for telling them. As I say, it just boggles my mind that it's tolerated. And FFL is supposed to be a satsang?? Barry's here in the first place because he could no longer get away with his lies and bullshit on alt.m.t; everyone there is wise to him. The folks here have been proving to him that he can still fool people with his fraudulent act. They're enablers. In my opinion, that is exactly what he *doesn't* need. He's been doing that act for at least a decade, using it as cover to take out his personal frustrations on other people. It's like a drug that allows him to avoid having to face himself and his life. And it's just so incredibly *ugly*, and so sad, especially given that he pretends to be so spiritual. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I've always thought that if you wanted to point out that > someone is > > > > a liar then it's more powerful to SHOW how that person is a > liar > > > > rather than to TELL everyone that that person is a liar. > > > > > > How about doing both (which is what I do)? > > > > And how about once. Or a few times. :) > > > > Or do you reckon we are so dense we didn't get it the first time. Or > > the third and fourth time. > > He doesn't tell the same lie each time. So perhaps we sense a pattern. Perhaps no need to keep plugging in specifics to maintain the generalization. But I am not arguing. Just suggesting options. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > wrote: > > > > > I've always thought that if you wanted to point out that someone is > > > a liar then it's more powerful to SHOW how that person is a liar > > > rather than to TELL everyone that that person is a liar. > > > > How about doing both (which is what I do)? > > And how about once. Or a few times. :) > > Or do you reckon we are so dense we didn't get it the first time. Or > the third and fourth time. He doesn't tell the same lie each time. What are you talking about? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > > I've always thought that if you wanted to point out that someone is > > a liar then it's more powerful to SHOW how that person is a liar > > rather than to TELL everyone that that person is a liar. > > How about doing both (which is what I do)? And how about once. Or a few times. :) Or do you reckon we are so dense we didn't get it the first time. Or the third and fourth time. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've always thought that if you wanted to point out that someone is > a liar then it's more powerful to SHOW how that person is a liar > rather than to TELL everyone that that person is a liar. How about doing both (which is what I do)? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff > wrote: > > > > I have always been uncomfortable with Judy's characterization of > Unc > > as a liar. Certainly in the realm of Unc's posts, his relationship > > with truth is loose, dismissive and distant -- perhaps like a > quick > > one-night stand with Lady Truth. And sometimes he appears to cast > her > > as a submissive that he likes to chain and have his way with -- > after > > donning his Dom leathers. > > > > > I've always thought that if you wanted to point out that someone is > a liar then it's more powerful to SHOW how that person is a liar > rather than to TELL everyone that that person is a liar. Well then you have 1000 Judy posts, which after the first 15 get tedious for me. I guess you are not addressing my post, though you reposted it, since I of course said Unc was not a liar. Do you want examples of that -- that he is not a liar? (proving a negative) You must not read many posts if you do not find Unc's relationship with truth is loose, dismissive and distant. Or if you do read them all, and don't find that, I am quite surprised at your reading comprehension skills, but move on. I am not going to spoon feed you. What I find of interest are frameworks that provide insight. I found the author's distinction between lying and bullshitting a useful insight. The primary point of my post was that the author's framework is insightul,IMO. And in my view, Unc provides ample and good examples of the author's point. If in your reading of Unc, you don't see it, fine. Move on. But I posted the above as a humor piece. You may not enjoy the humor. Fine. Move on. But you would have to be quite asleep at the wheel to not recognize the following as falling into the humor category. "his relationship with truth is loose, dismissive and distant -- perhaps like a quick one-night stand with Lady Truth. And sometimes he appears to cast her as a submissive that he likes to chain and have his way with -- after donning his Dom leathers." I imagine unc got a big laugh at that, and I expect some (attempted)witty slam from him soon. Its a way some people converse -- trading witty and hopefully insightful barbs. It busts egos, makes all involved laugh, particularly at oneself, and sometimes gives one insight into ones own (warped) behavior. What a great thing! > As soon as > someone tells me that someone is a liar, they are disrespecting me That implies we had respect in the first place. Someone can't take away something you have not yet established. > because they are not allowing me to come to that conclusion > myself...and when I am SHOWN the facts and allowed to come to that > conclusion by myself, then the result is all that more powerful. Thats what the Socratic method does. And I am a big fan of that. But its not the only way to approach making a point and communicating. > Al Franken consistently calls Rush a liar; well, he may be but show > me don't tell me. So, to me, Al and Rush are two sides to the same > coin. Al Franken consistently gives examples of Rush and O'Reilly lies. Just listen to him. Or read him. Its amazing that you could gloss over his stuff so quickly as to miss it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Sounds like pretty much everyone on this list! Sounds like pretty much everyone who has an agenda...which is, of course, pretty much everyone on the planet... > > Sal > > On Apr 10, 2006, at 5:55 PM, anon_couscous_ff wrote: > > > "he describes the person who does,the bullsh**tter: 'He does not care > > whether the things he says describe reality correctly. He just picks > > them out, or makes them up, to suit his purpose.'" > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have always been uncomfortable with Judy's characterization of Unc > as a liar. Certainly in the realm of Unc's posts, his relationship > with truth is loose, dismissive and distant -- perhaps like a quick > one-night stand with Lady Truth. And sometimes he appears to cast her > as a submissive that he likes to chain and have his way with -- after > donning his Dom leathers. I've always thought that if you wanted to point out that someone is a liar then it's more powerful to SHOW how that person is a liar rather than to TELL everyone that that person is a liar. As soon as someone tells me that someone is a liar, they are disrespecting me because they are not allowing me to come to that conclusion myself...and when I am SHOWN the facts and allowed to come to that conclusion by myself, then the result is all that more powerful. That's why I always felt that Al Franken was just the other side of the Rush Limbaugh coin. Rush deals in absolutes: he claims to have "the truth". Well, when one claims to have the truth, nothing gets my back up more and nothing makes me think that person doesn't have the truth...again, let me come to that conclusion myself by presenting me with facts and documentation. Al Franken consistently calls Rush a liar; well, he may be but show me don't tell me. So, to me, Al and Rush are two sides to the same coin. > > The review and content of "On Bullshit", appears to clarify the nuance > that has been troubling me. Unc is not a liar, he is a Bullshitter. > > "Bullshitting, as he notes, is not exactly lying, and > bullshit remains bullshit whether it's true or false. The difference > lies in the bullshitter's complete disregard for whether what he's > saying corresponds to facts in the physical world: he 'does not reject > the authority of the truth, as the liar does, and oppose himself to > it. He pays no attention to it at all. By virtue of this, bullshit is > a greater enemy of the truth than lies are.'" > > "It [Bullshit] is what we are surrounded with and recognize, it is > neither lie nor half-truth. It is whatever someone at the needed > moment invents to make him- or herself interesting or important. > > "he describes the person who does,the bullsh**tter: 'He does not care > whether the things he says describe reality correctly. He just picks > them out, or makes them up, to suit his purpose.'" > > > > The insights from the book in this snippet better applies to others: > "the reasons why there is so much BS out there is that in democratic > societies most people feel it's their DUTY to have an opinion about > virtually everything, including a great many things they know > little-to-nothing about. This is unfortunate, for when the claims in > one's orations exceed their supported and valid knowledge on the > subject, BS is the natural result. " > > :) > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have always been uncomfortable with Judy's characterization of Unc > as a liar. Certainly in the realm of Unc's posts, his relationship > with truth is loose, dismissive and distant -- perhaps like a quick > one-night stand with Lady Truth. And sometimes he appears to cast her > as a submissive that he likes to chain and have his way with -- after > donning his Dom leathers. > > The review and content of "On Bullshit", appears to clarify the > nuance that has been troubling me. Unc is not a liar, he is a > Bullshitter. I'm not sure how useful a distinction this is. At the very least, Barry does both: he says things without any concern for whether they're true (this guy's description of "bullshitting" beautifully describes what Barry does in this regard), *and* he also deliberately says things he knows are not true with intent to deceive, usually with malice, sometimes to cover up his own mistakes or misdeeds, sometimes just to exalt himself. A big part of his problem with the truth is his attachment to writing as a means of expressing himself. If an argument or opinion or judgment looks good in writing, that makes it "true" in his mind. This definitely belongs in the "bullshit" category. But I suspect that when you've used bullshitting all your life to create your reality because you experience real life as unsatisfactory, it becomes much easier to lie as well; the distinction between what's true and what isn't grows increasingly blurred. I think the Bush administration suffers from precisely the same syndrome. It goes along with extreme narcissism: anything I do is legitimate because it is I who does it. > "Bullshitting, as he notes, is not exactly lying, and > bullshit remains bullshit whether it's true or false. The difference > lies in the bullshitter's complete disregard for whether what he's > saying corresponds to facts in the physical world: he 'does not reject > the authority of the truth, as the liar does, and oppose himself to > it. He pays no attention to it at all. By virtue of this, bullshit is > a greater enemy of the truth than lies are.'" > > "It [Bullshit] is what we are surrounded with and recognize, it is > neither lie nor half-truth. It is whatever someone at the needed > moment invents to make him- or herself interesting or important. > > "he describes the person who does,the bullsh**tter: 'He does not care > whether the things he says describe reality correctly. He just picks > them out, or makes them up, to suit his purpose.'" > > > > The insights from the book in this snippet better applies to others: > "the reasons why there is so much BS out there is that in democratic > societies most people feel it's their DUTY to have an opinion about > virtually everything, including a great many things they know > little-to-nothing about. This is unfortunate, for when the claims in > one's orations exceed their supported and valid knowledge on the > subject, BS is the natural result. " > > :) > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
Oh Sal, You care little if that describes reality correctly -- you are just making that up to suit your purpose - to be entertaining. :) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Sounds like pretty much everyone on this list! > > Sal > > On Apr 10, 2006, at 5:55 PM, anon_couscous_ff wrote: > > > "he describes the person who does,the bullsh**tter: 'He does not care > > whether the things he says describe reality correctly. He just picks > > them out, or makes them up, to suit his purpose.'" > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
Sounds like pretty much everyone on this list! Sal On Apr 10, 2006, at 5:55 PM, anon_couscous_ff wrote: "he describes the person who does,the bullsh**tter: 'He does not care whether the things he says describe reality correctly. He just picks them out, or makes them up, to suit his purpose.'"
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Aganist Logic
I have always been uncomfortable with Judy's characterization of Unc as a liar. Certainly in the realm of Unc's posts, his relationship with truth is loose, dismissive and distant -- perhaps like a quick one-night stand with Lady Truth. And sometimes he appears to cast her as a submissive that he likes to chain and have his way with -- after donning his Dom leathers. The review and content of "On Bullshit", appears to clarify the nuance that has been troubling me. Unc is not a liar, he is a Bullshitter. "Bullshitting, as he notes, is not exactly lying, and bullshit remains bullshit whether it's true or false. The difference lies in the bullshitter's complete disregard for whether what he's saying corresponds to facts in the physical world: he 'does not reject the authority of the truth, as the liar does, and oppose himself to it. He pays no attention to it at all. By virtue of this, bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are.'" "It [Bullshit] is what we are surrounded with and recognize, it is neither lie nor half-truth. It is whatever someone at the needed moment invents to make him- or herself interesting or important. "he describes the person who does,the bullsh**tter: 'He does not care whether the things he says describe reality correctly. He just picks them out, or makes them up, to suit his purpose.'" The insights from the book in this snippet better applies to others: "the reasons why there is so much BS out there is that in democratic societies most people feel it's their DUTY to have an opinion about virtually everything, including a great many things they know little-to-nothing about. This is unfortunate, for when the claims in one's orations exceed their supported and valid knowledge on the subject, BS is the natural result. " :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
