[FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras, part 2
It takes a thorn to remove a thorn Shiva is Bhairava as well as Shambhu. It takes a liminal being to drive a stake into the heart of Kaliyuga. Every sin is redeemable on earth but not ingratitude Thirukural --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ultrarishi no_reply@... wrote: Read it over the last week on my kindle while vacationing in Hawaii. It reminded me of being in my early 20's, learning TM at that age period, and how heady everything became. Enjoyed the author's story and related to his skepticism while learning and trying to have a life. Hope to see more from him and also others of that period. The stuff about SRM vs. SIMS is priceless. One thing you could say about MMY was that when it came time, you are thrown under the bus.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras, part 2
So, let's review: in basic TM you get the single seed sound (bija) and the then you get the nice fertilizer, at about eighteen months, and you get the simple instructions for the correct angle to take the dive. You do NOT get two or three bijas. You only get one single bija mantra in basic TM initiation. Are we agreed so far? It has already been established that at least two of the most sacred bija-mantras, out of the first sixteen, contained in TM instruction and in the Sound Arya La Hari by the Adi Shankaracharya, are in fact, TM bija-mantras. So, where and how did the Adi Shankaracharya get the bijas? Asking the important questions. LoL! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adi_Shankara The stuff about SRM vs. SIMS is priceless. One thing you could say about MMY was that when it came time, you are thrown under the bus... You just threw your guru under the bus. Go figure. Many people confuse the term 'mantra', that is, words used in the Sanskrit Vedas, with 'bija' mantra: non-semantic seed sounds used in the Tantras. TM uses bija mantras that come from the Sri Vidya tradition in South India, which was the tradition of SBS. In original MMY TM there were two bija mantras: 'Ram' and 'Shyam', according to what I've read. MMY later added the bija for Saraswati, 'Aing' and fourteen others. In more advanced techniques, words such as 'namah' were added, but in TM you get only one single bija mantra. Bija 'mantras', by definition, have no semantic meaning - that's why they're called 'bija mantras' instead of being called 'words'. If the bijas were Sanskrit words, there would be no need for secrecy or a definition of them, since their meaning would be obvious to anyone who could read a Sanskrit lexicon. So, let's review: in basic TM you get the single seed sound (bija) and the fertilizer, and you get the simple instructions for the correct angle to dive. You do NOT get two or three bijas. You only get one single bija mantra in TM initation. It has already been established that at least two of the most sacred bija-mantras, out of the sixteen, contained in TM instruction and in the Sound Arya La Hari by the Adi Shankaracharya, are in fact, TM bija-mantras. Now, if the Adi Shankara wrote the Sounda, then he must have included the sixteen bijas contained within, would he not? LoL!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras, part 2
It was, as Rick pointed out, very wrong of me to compare you to Curly Howard. On your best day you are about 3/4 as astute as Curly Joe DeRita, the absolute crummiest of the Three Stooges. From: Richard J. Williams rich...@rwilliams.us To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 4, 2013 9:54 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras, part 2 So, let's review: in basic TM you get the single seed sound (bija) and the then you get the nice fertilizer, at about eighteen months, and you get the simple instructions for the correct angle to take the dive. You do NOT get two or three bijas. You only get one single bija mantra in basic TM initiation. Are we agreed so far? It has already been established that at least two of the most sacred bija-mantras, out of the first sixteen, contained in TM instruction and in the Sound Arya La Hari by the Adi Shankaracharya, are in fact, TM bija-mantras. So, where and how did the Adi Shankaracharya get the bijas? Asking the important questions. LoL! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adi_Shankara The stuff about SRM vs. SIMS is priceless. One thing you could say about MMY was that when it came time, you are thrown under the bus... You just threw your guru under the bus. Go figure. Many people confuse the term 'mantra', that is, words used in the Sanskrit Vedas, with 'bija' mantra: non-semantic seed sounds used in the Tantras. TM uses bija mantras that come from the Sri Vidya tradition in South India, which was the tradition of SBS. In original MMY TM there were two bija mantras: 'Ram' and 'Shyam', according to what I've read. MMY later added the bija for Saraswati, 'Aing' and fourteen others. In more advanced techniques, words such as 'namah' were added, but in TM you get only one single bija mantra. Bija 'mantras', by definition, have no semantic meaning - that's why they're called 'bija mantras' instead of being called 'words'. If the bijas were Sanskrit words, there would be no need for secrecy or a definition of them, since their meaning would be obvious to anyone who could read a Sanskrit lexicon. So, let's review: in basic TM you get the single seed sound (bija) and the fertilizer, and you get the simple instructions for the correct angle to dive. You do NOT get two or three bijas. You only get one single bija mantra in TM initation. It has already been established that at least two of the most sacred bija-mantras, out of the sixteen, contained in TM instruction and in the Sound Arya La Hari by the Adi Shankaracharya, are in fact, TM bija-mantras. Now, if the Adi Shankara wrote the Sounda, then he must have included the sixteen bijas contained within, would he not? LoL!
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras, part 2
Michael Jackson: It was, as Rick pointed out, very wrong of me to compare you to Curly Howard. You're not making any sense. Go figure. Formal fallacies of deductive reasoning fail to follow the rules of logic that guarantee a true conclusion follows given the truth of the premises. This is said to render the argument invalid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_fallacy On your best day you are about 3/4 as astute as Curly Joe DeRita, the absolute crummiest of the Three Stooges. So, let's sum up what we know: In original MMY TM there were two bija mantras: 'Ram' and 'Shyam', according to what I've read. MMY later added the bija for Saraswati, 'Aing' and fourteen others. In more advanced techniques, words such as 'namah' were added, but in TM you get only one single bija mantra. Bija 'mantras', by definition, have no semantic meaning - that's why they're called 'bija mantras' instead of being called 'words'. If the bijas were Sanskrit words, there would be no need for secrecy or a definition of them, since their meaning would be obvious to anyone who could read a Sanskrit lexicon. So, let's review: in basic TM you get the single seed sound (bija) and the then you get the nice fertilizer, at about eighteen months, and you get the simple instructions for the correct angle to take the dive. You do NOT get two or three bijas. You only get one single bija mantra in basic TM initiation. Are we agreed so far? It has already been established that at least two of the most sacred bija-mantras, out of the first sixteen, contained in TM instruction and in the Sound Arya La Hari by the Adi Shankaracharya, are in fact, TM bija-mantras. So, where and how did the Adi Shankaracharya get the bijas? Asking the important questions. LoL! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adi_Shankara The stuff about SRM vs. SIMS is priceless. One thing you could say about MMY was that when it came time, you are thrown under the bus... You just threw your guru under the bus. Go figure. Many people confuse the term 'mantra', that is, words used in the Sanskrit Vedas, with 'bija' mantra: non-semantic seed sounds used in the Tantras. TM uses bija mantras that come from the Sri Vidya tradition in South India, which was the tradition of SBS. In original MMY TM there were two bija mantras: 'Ram' and 'Shyam', according to what I've read. MMY later added the bija for Saraswati, 'Aing' and fourteen others. In more advanced techniques, words such as 'namah' were added, but in TM you get only one single bija mantra. Bija 'mantras', by definition, have no semantic meaning - that's why they're called 'bija mantras' instead of being called 'words'. If the bijas were Sanskrit words, there would be no need for secrecy or a definition of them, since their meaning would be obvious to anyone who could read a Sanskrit lexicon. So, let's review: in basic TM you get the single seed sound (bija) and the fertilizer, and you get the simple instructions for the correct angle to dive. You do NOT get two or three bijas. You only get one single bija mantra in TM initation. It has already been established that at least two of the most sacred bija-mantras, out of the sixteen, contained in TM instruction and in the Sound Arya La Hari by the Adi Shankaracharya, are in fact, TM bija-mantras. Now, if the Adi Shankara wrote the Sounda, then he must have included the sixteen bijas contained within, would he not? LoL!
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras, part 2
ultrarishi: The stuff about SRM vs. SIMS is priceless. One thing you could say about MMY was that when it came time, you are thrown under the bus... You just threw your guru under the bus. Go figure. Many people confuse the term 'mantra', that is, words used in the Sanskrit Vedas, with 'bija' mantra: non-semantic seed sounds used in the Tantras. TM uses bija mantras that come from the Sri Vidya tradition in South India, which was the tradition of SBS. In original MMY TM there were two bija mantras: 'Ram' and 'Shyam', according to what I've read. MMY later added the bija for Saraswati, 'Aing' and fourteen others. In more advanced techniques, words such as 'namah' were added, but in TM you get only one single bija mantra. Bija 'mantras', by definition, have no semantic meaning - that's why they're called 'bija mantras' instead of being called 'words'. If the bijas were Sanskrit words, there would be no need for secrecy or a definition of them, since their meaning would be obvious to anyone who could read a Sanskrit lexicon. So, let's review: in basic TM you get the single seed sound (bija) and the fertilizer, and you get the simple instructions for the correct angle to dive. You do NOT get two or three bijas. You only get one single bija mantra in TM initation. It has already been established that at least two of the most sacred bija-mantras, out of the sixteen, contained in TM instruction and in the Sound Arya La Hari by the Adi Shankaracharya, are in fact, TM bija-mantras. Now, if the Adi Shankara wrote the Sounda, then he must have included the sixteen bijas contained within, would he not? LoL!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras
all I know about Susan Shumsky is she was in Fairfield, took Bob Fickes' channeling class, started channeling for money, had the Dome police breathing down her neck for unapproved activities along with a bunch of other people who were into it in 1987, Shumsky was one of the few who fought back, claiming that her channeling wasn't channeling at all, but rather her way of praying - seemed to work, I think the Dome cops backed off. seems to think quite highly of herself - here is her bio from Amazon Biography Dr. Susan Shumsky is a best-selling author, foremost spirituality expert, pioneer in the self-development field, highly-acclaimed and greatly respected professional speaker, New Thought minister, and Doctor of Divinity. She has authored Divine Revelation, in continuous print with Simon Schuster for 14 years, as well as the award-winning Miracle Prayer, published by Random House, and Exploring Chakras, plus How to Hear the Voice of God, Exploring Meditation, and Exploring Auras. Her upcoming book is called Ascension. All her books have been published in several languages worldwide. Dr. Shumsky has practiced self-development disciplines for over 40 years. For 22 years she lived in the Himalayas, the Swiss Alps, and other secluded areas, under the personal guidance and on the personal staff of enlightened master from India Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, founder of Transcendental Meditation and guru of the Beatles and Deepak Chopra. She then studied New Thought and metaphysics for another 20 years and became a Doctor of Divinity. Dr. Shumsky has taught yoga, meditation, prayer, and intuition to thousands of students all over the world since 1970 as a true New Thought pioneer. She has done over 500 speaking engagements and over 500 media appearances since her first book was published, including Woman's World, GQ, Cosmopolitan, nationally syndicated TV and radio on ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX, and Coast to Coast AM with George Noory. She is the founder of Divine Revelation®, a complete technology for contacting the divine presence and listening to the inner voice. She now travels extensively in a motor home, facilitating workshops, seminars, spiritual retreats, as well as tours to India, Peru, and other sacred destinations. From: Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 1:53 PM Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras From:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard J. Williams Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:18 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras Rick Archer: The Secret of the Mantras Show me ANY Devangiri bija mantra in ANY Sanskrit, old Brahmi, Hindi, or Urdu lexicon, or in ANY Veda, in any Vedic Literature, or in ANY Berlitz or Rosetta Stone Hindi phrase guide. Just one. Or, failing that, post a flash card showing your bija mantra in any common prakrit; or failing that, just post one URL to a Yantra graphic that shows the bija mantra for Saraswati. Thanks in advance, Rick. LoL! The answer is here: 'Exploring Chakras: Awaken Your Untapped Energy' by Susan G. Shumsky 'Secret of Seed (Bija) Mantras' by David Frawley I don’t know about all that. The book’s title was derived from that fact that when its author became an initiator on the Beatles’ TTC, MMY was giving out only one mantra. But that’s not the most interesting part of the book. There was some interesting stuff about Charlie Lutes vs. The Beatles, and other stuff I hadn’t known.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras
The Secret of the Mantras Or, failing that, post a flash card showing your bija mantra in any common prakrit; or failing that, just post one URL to a Yantra graphic that shows the bija mantra for Saraswati. Thanks in advance, Rick. LoL! Rick Archer I don't know about all that... It looks like if I were to hold up flash cards of MMY's bija mantras, not one single person on this list could identify their bija mantra. LoL! The answer is here: 'Exploring Chakras: Awaken Your Untapped Energy' by Susan G. Shumsky 'Secret of Seed (Bija) Mantras' by David Frawley
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras
On 03/25/2013 06:43 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: The Secret of the Mantras Or, failing that, post a flash card showing your bija mantra in any common prakrit; or failing that, just post one URL to a Yantra graphic that shows the bija mantra for Saraswati. Thanks in advance, Rick. LoL! Rick Archer I don't know about all that... It looks like if I were to hold up flash cards of MMY's bija mantras, not one single person on this list could identify their bija mantra. LoL! In Devanagari? Some folks hear can read it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras
Rick Archer: The Secret of the Mantras Show me ANY Devangiri bija mantra in ANY Sanskrit, old Brahmi, Hindi, or Urdu lexicon, or in ANY Veda, in any Vedic Literature, or in ANY Berlitz or Rosetta Stone Hindi phrase guide. Just one. Or, failing that, post a flash card showing your bija mantra in any common prakrit; or failing that, just post one URL to a Yantra graphic that shows the bija mantra for Saraswati. Thanks in advance, Rick. LoL! The answer is here: 'Exploring Chakras: Awaken Your Untapped Energy' by Susan G. Shumsky 'Secret of Seed (Bija) Mantras' by David Frawley
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard J. Williams Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:18 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras Rick Archer: The Secret of the Mantras Show me ANY Devangiri bija mantra in ANY Sanskrit, old Brahmi, Hindi, or Urdu lexicon, or in ANY Veda, in any Vedic Literature, or in ANY Berlitz or Rosetta Stone Hindi phrase guide. Just one. Or, failing that, post a flash card showing your bija mantra in any common prakrit; or failing that, just post one URL to a Yantra graphic that shows the bija mantra for Saraswati. Thanks in advance, Rick. LoL! The answer is here: 'Exploring Chakras: Awaken Your Untapped Energy' by Susan G. Shumsky 'Secret of Seed (Bija) Mantras' by David Frawley I don't know about all that. The book's title was derived from that fact that when its author became an initiator on the Beatles' TTC, MMY was giving out only one mantra. But that's not the most interesting part of the book. There was some interesting stuff about Charlie Lutes vs. The Beatles, and other stuff I hadn't known.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: [...] I don't know about all that. The book's title was derived from that fact that when its author became an initiator on the Beatles' TTC, MMY was giving out only one mantra. But that's not the most interesting part of the book. There was some interesting stuff about Charlie Lutes vs. The Beatles, and other stuff I hadn't known. That sounds a bit odd as 10+ years before that, MMY was saying that we use the mantras [plural] to fetch the grace of the gods [plural]. Odd that he would only use one mantra 10 years later. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras
On 03/24/2013 11:40 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: [...] I don't know about all that. The book's title was derived from that fact that when its author became an initiator on the Beatles' TTC, MMY was giving out only one mantra. But that's not the most interesting part of the book. There was some interesting stuff about Charlie Lutes vs. The Beatles, and other stuff I hadn't known. That sounds a bit odd as 10+ years before that, MMY was saying that we use the mantras [plural] to fetch the grace of the gods [plural]. Odd that he would only use one mantra 10 years later. L He was speaking about mantras in general. There are a many, many mantras and they are used for different things. Giving one mantra for meditation would not be unusual. For the masses you generally give a shanti or shiva mantra for meditation. Even with those two groups there are many to choose from.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 03/24/2013 11:40 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: [...] I don't know about all that. The book's title was derived from that fact that when its author became an initiator on the Beatles' TTC, MMY was giving out only one mantra. But that's not the most interesting part of the book. There was some interesting stuff about Charlie Lutes vs. The Beatles, and other stuff I hadn't known. That sounds a bit odd as 10+ years before that, MMY was saying that we use the mantras [plural] to fetch the grace of the gods [plural]. Odd that he would only use one mantra 10 years later. L He was speaking about mantras in general. There are a many, many mantras and they are used for different things. Giving one mantra for meditation would not be unusual. For the masses you generally give a shanti or shiva mantra for meditation. Even with those two groups there are many to choose from. Well, yes, but presumably he was talking about TM way back then (Beeaon Light of the HImalayas) and the text seemed to imply he was giving out more than one mantra in the late 50's in India. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras
On 03/24/2013 12:41 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 03/24/2013 11:40 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: [...] I don't know about all that. The book's title was derived from that fact that when its author became an initiator on the Beatles' TTC, MMY was giving out only one mantra. But that's not the most interesting part of the book. There was some interesting stuff about Charlie Lutes vs. The Beatles, and other stuff I hadn't known. That sounds a bit odd as 10+ years before that, MMY was saying that we use the mantras [plural] to fetch the grace of the gods [plural]. Odd that he would only use one mantra 10 years later. L He was speaking about mantras in general. There are a many, many mantras and they are used for different things. Giving one mantra for meditation would not be unusual. For the masses you generally give a shanti or shiva mantra for meditation. Even with those two groups there are many to choose from. Well, yes, but presumably he was talking about TM way back then (Beeaon Light of the HImalayas) and the text seemed to imply he was giving out more than one mantra in the late 50's in India. L That indeed would be presumptuous. :-D
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 03/24/2013 11:40 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: [...] I don't know about all that. The book's title was derived from that fact that when its author became an initiator on the Beatles' TTC, MMY was giving out only one mantra. But that's not the most interesting part of the book. There was some interesting stuff about Charlie Lutes vs. The Beatles, and other stuff I hadn't known. That sounds a bit odd as 10+ years before that, MMY was saying that we use the mantras [plural] to fetch the grace of the gods [plural]. Odd that he would only use one mantra 10 years later. L He was speaking about mantras in general. There are a many, many mantras and they are used for different things. Giving one mantra for meditation would not be unusual. For the masses you generally give a shanti or shiva mantra for meditation. Even with those two groups there are many to choose from. Well, yes, but presumably he was talking about TM way back then (Beeaon Light of the HImalayas) and the text seemed to imply he was giving out more than one mantra in the late 50's in India. Lawson, in India, to this very day, TM is taught differently than in the west. In India people would receive their mantra according to their family deity, Ishta Deva. Since there are many family deities, different mantras where given, even back in 1955. But when Maharishi decided to travel to the west, he had to come up with something different. As he said himself, there was a lot of simplification. People asked him later, and he said: What should we have told them? To meditate on Vishnu? Obviously, trying to keep TM away from religion was a fundamental decision he made. So he gave everybody a mantra that he thought was fairly universal. The word RAAM has a certain universal touch in India. In the middle ages it was even used by some Muslims, Kabir, himself a muslim used it. It is also used as a greeting formula, similar to namaste, as in Ramram. Obviously Guru Dev himself had said that women should substitute OM with Shri. But at a certain time, towards the end of the 60s, when he found that newspapers were writing about the mantras in Norway, when there was a public discussion going on, that in fact people all shared the same mantra, he obviously changed his tactics, and he came up with the set of tantric mantras as we know them today. The distribution formula stayed very simple though. The new system was only uncovered, when TM teachers disclosed it, somewhere in the middle to end 70s, but then mainly through books, which weren't so widely spread.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Secret of the Mantras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, navashok no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 03/24/2013 11:40 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: [...] I don't know about all that. The book's title was derived from that fact that when its author became an initiator on the Beatles' TTC, MMY was giving out only one mantra. But that's not the most interesting part of the book. There was some interesting stuff about Charlie Lutes vs. The Beatles, and other stuff I hadn't known. That sounds a bit odd as 10+ years before that, MMY was saying that we use the mantras [plural] to fetch the grace of the gods [plural]. Odd that he would only use one mantra 10 years later. L He was speaking about mantras in general. There are a many, many mantras and they are used for different things. Giving one mantra for meditation would not be unusual. For the masses you generally give a shanti or shiva mantra for meditation. Even with those two groups there are many to choose from. Well, yes, but presumably he was talking about TM way back then (Beeaon Light of the HImalayas) and the text seemed to imply he was giving out more than one mantra in the late 50's in India. Lawson, in India, to this very day, TM is taught differently than in the west. In India people would receive their mantra according to their family deity, Ishta Deva. Since there are many family deities, different mantras where given, even back in 1955. But when Maharishi decided to travel to the west, he had to come up with something different. As he said himself, there was a lot of simplification. People asked him later, and he said: What should we have told them? To meditate on Vishnu? Obviously, trying to keep TM away from religion was a fundamental decision he made. So he gave everybody a mantra that he thought was fairly universal. The word RAAM has a certain universal touch in India. In the middle ages it was even used by some Muslims, Kabir, himself a muslim used it. It is also used as a greeting formula, similar to namaste, as in Ramram. Obviously Guru Dev himself had said that women should substitute OM with Shri. And lo and behold, in Finnish, the Bible is called RAAMATTU, from the Greek 'grammata'.
