[FairfieldLife] Re: phase transition maps and Gurus
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > On Jan 20, 2006, at 9:10 PM, qntmpkt wrote: > > > > > being part of > > > the Saivite Tradition of Shankara > > > > It would appear Shankara was a Vaishnav. > > Being said to be an incarnation of Shiva -- that would be "interesting". > > He was a bit special (deva like). Did all his commentaries and all by > 16, when his incarnation was supposed to have been up. But was > granted an additional 16 years to travel India to set up the maths and > all. Drop the mortal coil at 32. > **SNIP TO END** Most of the reading and research I've done does seem to point to Adi Sankaracharya as being a devotee of Narasimha, Vishnu's incarnation as the ManLion who rescued his devotee, Prahlad, from his demon father, Hiranyakashipu. All worship is only Consiousness worshipping Consciousness. The puranas articulate this by the stories of any particular manifestation of God worshipping another manifestation of God as Lord. Shiva is considered the highest devotee of Krishna (indeed, Hanuman, who is the epitome of devotion is the "secret" form of Shiva); Rama fashions a lingam on the sands of south India to worship Shiva before conquering Sri Lanka (the present of the Rameshavaram temple that Maharishi visited after he left Uttar Kashi); all the Gods invoke and worship their Shakti as Ma Durga to "save" them from the demon Mahishasura; etc. It's all a round robin of worship of Self. Similarly, in the offering of ararti, or camphor flame, to the divinity the symbolism is that the individual flame of consciousness is offering itself to the universal light of consiousness of which it is just an expression. Using camphor as the fuel is symbolic of the ego which, offering itself to God, is completely extinguished with no ash left behind because it wasn't real to begin with. I guess you could extend the metaphor as regards the carbon soot to leshyavidya, or the remains of ignorance. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: phase transition maps and Gurus
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Jan 20, 2006, at 9:10 PM, qntmpkt wrote:
> >
> > > being part of
> > > the Saivite Tradition of Shankara
> >
> > It would appear Shankara was a Vaishnav.
>
> Being said to be an incarnation of Shiva -- that would
be "interesting".
>
Yup. Shankara is "N. of Shiva or Rudra":
2 zaMkara mf(%{I})n. causing prosperity , auspicious , beneficent
Nir. MBh. BhP. ; m. ***N. of Rudra or S3iva*** VS. A1s3vGr2. MBh.
&c. ; of a son of Kas3yapa and Danu VP. ; of Skanda AV.Paris3. ; of a
serpentdemon L. ; of a Cakra-vartin L. ; ***N. of various authors and
commentators , (esp.) of S3am2kara7ca1rya***
> He was a bit special (deva like). Did all his commentaries and all
by
> 16, when his incarnation was supposed to have been up. But was
> granted an additional 16 years to travel India to set up the maths
and
> all. Drop the mortal coil at 32.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > At the same time, it's not unusual for Vedic and Advaitin paths
to
> > borrow methods from the tantric lines (e.g. Shankara and the Sri
> > Vidya/tantric trip). In the Kali Yuga this is a common pattern:
> > profound non-dual philosophy (many cannot just "get it"), so an
> > equally profound method is required to get you there. So
we "borrow"
> > from the tantrics. No, I don't mean sex.
> >
>
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[FairfieldLife] Re: phase transition maps and Gurus
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jan 20, 2006, at 9:10 PM, qntmpkt wrote: > > > being part of > > the Saivite Tradition of Shankara > > It would appear Shankara was a Vaishnav. Being said to be an incarnation of Shiva -- that would be "interesting". He was a bit special (deva like). Did all his commentaries and all by 16, when his incarnation was supposed to have been up. But was granted an additional 16 years to travel India to set up the maths and all. Drop the mortal coil at 32. > > At the same time, it's not unusual for Vedic and Advaitin paths to > borrow methods from the tantric lines (e.g. Shankara and the Sri > Vidya/tantric trip). In the Kali Yuga this is a common pattern: > profound non-dual philosophy (many cannot just "get it"), so an > equally profound method is required to get you there. So we "borrow" > from the tantrics. No, I don't mean sex. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: phase transition maps and Gurus
---Thanks, I'll give it a try: x locates MMY/TM: PERSONAL IMPERSONAL X DIRECT TRANSMISSIONPROGRESSIVE (NON-PROGRESSIVE) X somewhere in there. Such a map, in this case, tends to display for us (with further questioning and analysis), the reasons for the failure of the TMO in fulfilling the goal of spreading TM around the world. Perhaps another phase map including managerial efficiency would be warranted. (this would place MMY somewhere between zero and one percent). Looking at the map, we find that although TM is highly progressive and many would say, effective, ; as a whole the TM Movement started splintering apart early in it's career due to the lack of one-pointedness in the devotional area. TM was offered solely as a technique and (originally), without any demands by MMY regarding the FOCAL POINT OF DEVOTION. Thus, over the years, the TMO lost power as people (like myself - a Buddhist), still continued to practice TM, but have no connection with the TMO). Fundamentalist religions OTOH, generate huge amounts of power and influence in the world since many followers are in lock-step regarding the certainty of their devotional icons. (I'm reminded of the goose-stepping soldiers in N. Korea, all forced into devotion to Kim Jung Il.). Whether forced or not, the neo-conservative religious right in the US and most of the Islamic nations have a predominant and destructive influence on world peace, by virtue of the placement of the "x" on the phase-transition map, way toward the PERSONAL end of the spectrum. Each of the parameters could generate a secondary field of maps, as a bifurcation process.; since the parameter "PERSONAL" is just a first approximation. Strong personalities may also exist in Buddhism, for example Sakyamuni Buddha; but due to a combination of factors, we don't see Buddhists fighting it out with their neighbors (exception: Sri Lanka). > Might help if you included a diagram with the post. > > On Jan 20, 2006, at 9:10 PM, qntmpkt wrote: > > > Phase transition maps are used in engineering to help planners decide > > the best course of action, given various parameters. For example (I'm > > making this one up but you get the idea.): Say a sandy stratum > > underground is saturated with oil. Would it be cost effective to > > extract the oil? We construct a phase transition map symbolically > > represented by a square with 4 corners (temperature, pressure, amount > > of oil per square meter, and permeability of the sand). Plug in the > > data which locates an "x" somewhere on the square. Also on the square > > is a line representing the cost effectiveness of drilling, "yes" or > > "no". If the x is located on the yes side, the decision is made to > > drill. If on the other side, don't drill...(you get the idea). > > Now to construct a phase transition map for Gurus, we have a square > > with 4 corners, and our parameters are 1. upper left: Personal. 2. > > Upper right, Impersonal. 3. Lower left, Progressive, 4. lower right, > > Direct or Non-Progressive. > > We then select a Guru or religion, placing an x somewhere on the > > square, after selecting a certain percentage from 0 to 1. > > For example, take the Hare Krishnas. This is way toward the > > Personal end, since this is a Personalist religion. It's all quite > > progressive. > > How about TM: This is philosophically impersonalist, being part of > > the Saivite Tradition of Shankara, ; and although MMY as a Personality > > is involved, I suspect that a minority of TM'ers are "devoted" to MMY > > in a Bhakti kind of way. The path offered through the TMO is highly > > progressive, so we can locate our x on the map somewhere. > > Non-progressive (for the most part) paths would be Dzogchen, and the > > Neo-Advaitins (especially HWL Poonja and his successors); most of whom > > trace their lineage to Ramana Maharshi. > > Now the line we draw on the map relates to the particular goal of a > > Guru, path, or religion. ; and the x oriented to the line denotes the > > effectiveness of the path in relationship to the goal. > > But remember always these words of Buckaroo Banzai: "whereever you > > go, there you are!". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ~--> > > Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope > > and healing > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM > > > > ~-> > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LA
