RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Shurangama Sutra and TMer's Proclaiming their enlightenment.
It would be like your small town car-mechanic, grease on his hands and all, stepped out of his garage and started to do these things and perform those miracles.. Oh boy, would this scare the establishment? Not as much as if it was a girl lol How sad is that :P To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Shurangama Sutra and TMer's Proclaiming their enlightenment.
It seems to me that enlightenment (which I think all of us agree is pretty much a useless term, but one we're stuck with) would be pretty wasted on a person who drew his or her primary sense of identity from the person of power, wealth or influence he or she had attached himself to. I think anytime you love something completely and openly that it will most definitely fly you to new heights, but Im not sure that drawing identity from or even attaching to is loving openly. I mean, for all practical purposes your guru could be a blade of grass, if it so inspires. But if youre primary sense of identity was drawn from a blade of grass, Im thinking you might get eaten. It seems to me that a wise person would not promote such dependence. Even a blade of grass would most likely laugh at you knowing that it could not last too long To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Shurangama Sutra and TMer's Proclaiming their enlightenment.
On Oct 18, 2005, at 2:04 AM, peterklutz wrote: Moreover, Christ was not a 'bourgeoiuse revolutionary' or PhD that changed side - but a salt-of-the-earth working man. You've got to be kidding. Let's see, he was supposedly a direct descendant of David, the most exalted lineage in ancient Israel. He received the best education of the time, learning Scripture at a very young age, younger than most, and continuing throughout the rest of his life. Then, while there is a large gap when it is not clear what he was doing, there is no evidence that his situation at that point was anything comparable to working-class. I would say bourgeois revolutionary pretty much sums it up. It would be like your small town car-mechanic, grease on his hands and all, stepped out of his garage and started to do these things and perform those miracles.. Hardly.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Shurangama Sutra and TMer's Proclaiming their enlightenment.
Very possible. I've also read some commentaries that speculate that the carpentry actually applied to Joseph, and was used by early writers in order to give Jesus more of a down-to-earth aura, so to speak. Then again, as all educated Jewish men of the time were required to also learn a trade in order to later support a family, it's possible that carpentry was what he learned, albeit at a higher level than most. Whatever, it is still not easy to imagine him actually pounding nails, at least on a regular basis, and no evidence that I can recall from my few readings of the Gospels that he ever did so. Sal On Oct 18, 2005, at 10:39 AM, authfriend wrote: I've read that the words used to describe the occupation of Joseph, Jesus' worldly father, are mistranslated as carpenter. They actually mean something more like cabinet maker, i.e., not just a common laborer but a highly skilled craftsman who makes quality furniture. That in itself might put Jesus in the middle class (especially if Joseph had employees doing the actual work).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Shurangama Sutra and TMer's Proclaiming their enlightenment.
On Oct 18, 2005, at 11:39 AM, authfriend wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 18, 2005, at 2:04 AM, peterklutz wrote: Moreover, Christ was not a 'bourgeoiuse revolutionary' or PhD that changed side - but a salt-of-the-earth working man. You've got to be kidding. Let's see, he was supposedly a direct descendant of David, the most exalted lineage in ancient Israel. He received the best education of the time, learning Scripture at a very young age, younger than most, and continuing throughout the rest of his life. Then, while there is a large gap when it is not clear what he was doing, there is no evidence that his situation at that point was anything comparable to working-class. I would say "bourgeois revolutionary" pretty much sums it up. I've read that the words used to describe the occupation of Joseph, Jesus' "worldly" father, are mistranslated as "carpenter." They actually mean something more like "cabinet maker," i.e., not just a common laborer but a highly skilled craftsman who makes quality furniture. That in itself might put Jesus in the middle class (especially if Joseph had employees doing the actual work). Actually the Aramaic word for carpenter, naggar, also means "scholar". "Carpenter" may be one of the most bizarre mistranslations of all time. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Shurangama Sutra and TMer's Proclaiming their enlightenment.
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip So Bhakti is impossible for someone who is not enlightened (at least to CC), according to MMY, and is impossible for someone who is, according to you. In the Bhakti Sutras of Narada different types of bhakti are deliniated. They are basically tamasic, rajasic, sattvic and parabhakti. Of course anything prior to parabhakti is moodmaking in a certain sense, but that does not make it useless by a long shot. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Shurangama Sutra and TMer's Proclaiming their enlightenment.
THe original post was a reference to one of the Richard Bach stories, wasn't it? The Reluctant Messiah or somesuch? Hmmdont remember. Im fairly certain though that anyone who comes out performing messiah-like feats openly is going to pretty much get slaughtered. No matter who or what the person is. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Shurangama Sutra and TMer's Proclaiming their enlightenment.
He was quite a bit more than a simple carpenter, by all accounts except yours. Sal On Oct 18, 2005, at 1:18 PM, peterklutz wrote: The guy was a carpenter. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Oct 18, 2005, at 2:04 AM, peterklutz wrote: > > > Moreover, Christ was not a 'bourgeoiuse revolutionary' or PhD that > > changed side - but a salt-of-the-earth working man. > > You've got to be kidding. Let's see, he was supposedly a direct > descendant of David, the most exalted lineage in ancient Israel. He > received the best education of the time, learning Scripture at a very > young age, younger than most, and continuing throughout the rest of his > life. Then, while there is a large gap when it is not clear what he > was doing, there is no evidence that his situation at that point was > anything comparable to working-class. I would say bourgeois > revolutionary pretty much sums it up. > > > > It would be like your small town car-mechanic, grease on his hands and > > all, stepped out of his garage and started to do these things and > > perform those miracles.. > > Hardly. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS ▪ Visit your group FairfieldLife on the web. ▪ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ▪ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Shurangama Sutra and TMer's Proclaiming their enlightenment.
--- peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 10/16/05 9:23 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 16, 2005, at 8:16 PM, sparaig wrote: Quick: how do you know that Bevan is NOT enlightened? Dunno, I give up. How? Just wondering why everyone assumes that he isn't... It's the old is behavior correlated with level of consciousness issue. He behaves in ways that clash with almost everyone's concept of how an enlightened person would behave. As did Christ. Well, I wouldn't imply Bevan is Chruist like in any fashion, but I do get your point. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Shurangama Sutra and TMer's Proclaiming their enlightenment.
on 10/17/05 5:59 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's the old is behavior correlated with level of consciousness issue. He behaves in ways that clash with almost everyone's concept of how an enlightened person would behave. As did Christ. Well, I wouldn't imply Bevan is Chruist like in any fashion, but I do get your point. I don't. People say someone is Christ-like if they display extraordinary degrees of compassion, tolerance, patience, etc. Sound like Bevan? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Shurangama Sutra and TMer's Proclaiming their enlightenment.
on 10/17/05 10:15 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 10/17/05 5:59 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's the old is behavior correlated with level of consciousness issue. He behaves in ways that clash with almost everyone's concept of how an enlightened person would behave. As did Christ. Well, I wouldn't imply Bevan is Chruist like in any fashion, but I do get your point. I don't. People say someone is Christ-like if they display extraordinary degrees of compassion, tolerance, patience, etc. Sound like Bevan? I didn't get that Lawson was comparing specific characteristics, just noting that many people of Jesus' time didn't approve of his behavior-- socializing with prostitutes and tax collectors and such, healing on the Sabbath, etc. Different expectations, but the same tendency to be disapproving if they weren't fulfilled. Yes, because he was doing what he knew to be right, not conforming to someone else's standards. Bevan? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Shurangama Sutra and TMer's Proclaiming their enlightenment.
on 10/17/05 11:11 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Caveat for the terminally literal-minded: I am NOT defending the notion that Bevan is enlightened, just suggesting that we can't tell from a person's behavior whether they're enlightened or not. And if that's the case, we have to evaluate their behavior as we would that of anybody else. Someone who is said to be enlightened doesn't get to evade such evaluation and have carte blanche for their behavior. We can, if we wish, criticize the behavior of someone who is said to be enlightened, but we shouldn't assume that because the behavior warrants criticism, therefore the person can't be enlightened. And vice-versa, not incidentally.] I agree. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Shurangama Sutra and TMer's Proclaiming their enlightenment.
--- peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 10/17/05 5:59 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's the old is behavior correlated with level of consciousness issue. He behaves in ways that clash with almost everyone's concept of how an enlightened person would behave. As did Christ. Well, I wouldn't imply Bevan is Chruist like in any fashion, but I do get your point. I don't. People say someone is Christ-like if they display extraordinary degrees of compassion, tolerance, patience, etc. Sound like Bevan? I think more than anything else, Christ was seen by his peers and the establishment in his days as anti-status quo. I am looking fwd to Bevan breaking into a Texas correction facility and stopping an impending execution; or flipping the finger to the IRS; or breaking and entering the NYSE and with his own hands trashing the place.. This instances of insolence would of course be interspersed with healings and street-sermons in downtown Los Angeles, as well as walking on water at Long Island.. To the best of my recollections, this would be a contemporary equivalent of what Christ did in his time. That would be pretty cool if Bevan did those things! The Christian Fundies forget-or perhaps never knew-what and incredible radical Jesus was. In fact, that's why he was killed by the Jewish religious authorities through the agency of Rome. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Shurangama Sutra and TMer's Proclaiming their enlightenment.
On Oct 16, 2005, at 8:16 PM, sparaig wrote: Quick: how do you know that Bevan is NOT enlightened? Dunno, I give up. How? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Shurangama Sutra and TMer's Proclaiming their enlightenment.
on 10/16/05 9:23 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 16, 2005, at 8:16 PM, sparaig wrote: Quick: how do you know that Bevan is NOT enlightened? Dunno, I give up. How? Just wondering why everyone assumes that he isn't... It's the old is behavior correlated with level of consciousness issue. He behaves in ways that clash with almost everyone's concept of how an enlightened person would behave. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Shurangama Sutra and TMer's Proclaiming their enlightenment.
on 10/16/05 9:47 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just wondering why everyone assumes that he isn't... It's the old is behavior correlated with level of consciousness issue. He behaves in ways that clash with almost everyone's concept of how an enlightened person would behave. The affairs thing? That, and he has a way of throwing his weight around the university that drives most reasonable people crazy. He micromanages, fires anyone who dares question him or is at all outspoken or independent in their thinking or who dares raise their voice in support of some issue of concern to students yet opposed by Bevan. Is that still ongoing? Don't know. When was the last time he was in Fairfield? Don't know. He comes and goes. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Shurangama Sutra and TMer's Proclaiming their enlightenment.
--- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 16, 2005, at 8:16 PM, sparaig wrote: Quick: how do you know that Bevan is NOT enlightened? Dunno, I give up. How? Bevan is enlightened. I know it's true because an initiator told me. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
