Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Rick Archerr...@searchsummit.com wrote: You visit the wrong satsang groups. I fear that's true. Could you kindly direct me to the right satsang group in FF, Rick?
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of It's just a ride Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 10:15 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Rick Archerr...@searchsummit.com mailto:rick%40searchsummit.com wrote: You visit the wrong satsang groups. I fear that's true. Could you kindly direct me to the right satsang group in FF, Rick? Keep in mind that I was speaking somewhat tongue in cheek. Wrong and right out of context sounds too preachy. Anyway, I happen to like the one I've been going to for years every Wednesday night. It's at 304 W Kirkwood Ave., in the condo building just East of Sidha Insurance, top floor, 1st apartment on the Left. Starts at 8pm but people come and go at their convenience.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 1:44 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups If, for example, they announce with absolute certainty *exactly* what it IS that they've found, or what it means, I grow wary. I'd like to see the telegram they got from God that makes them so certain. :-) I would grow wary too. Seems to me that the only thing of which one can be certain is that one exists. The awakened people I know are certain about that, but not about much else. Another thing I see as a red flag in some who claim that they have found is that they assume that they have nothing more to ever find again, that they're there, and that there is no more seeking to do. I find that very, very sad. I would too. I don't personally know anyone who thinks that way. Many who awaken express that they're in kindergarten - just getting started - not finished. I think that to some extent the finding thang is an extension of the seeking thang. That is, a lot of people paid their dues for a long, long time in traditions that left them as seekers, without them ever finding what was promised. That can tend to make people a little anxious, and after 20 or 30 years make them almost *desperate* to find something -- anything -- to prove to themselves that all these years and decades spent seeking were not in vain, were not wasted. Could be, but many are genuinely finding what they were seeking, and therefore no longer have a sense of seeking. There is still plenty of clarity and knowledge to gain, but doing so is sort of a natural unfolding on a fulfilled foundation. No longer a desperate search based on emptiness or craving. So they let their standards slip. They have a realization or awakening, and because they've waited so long for something to happen -- for *anything* to happen -- they make more of the experience than perhaps they should. They have a flash of 24/7 witnessing and think they're enlightened. They see rosy auras and think they're in GC. You may have met many such people. I have too. But there others around who's awakening is abiding or permanent. I have only met two or three individuals on this planet whom I suspect of being fully enlightened. Every one of them could not *wait* to wake up each morning and see what new things it had to teach them, what more they could learn that day, and how much they might be changed at the end, of that day. That, to me, is finding something and treating it correctly, as just one more step along a never-ending path. Saying that one has e reached the end of seeking -- to me -- just indi- cates that the person saying it has grown tired or lazy or complacent Remind me who's saying that. Not the people I'm referring to.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 3:16 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups I think that folks in Fairfield lose sight of the fact that this is not exactly normal, everyday shit. Take a walk down Main Street of most towns in the US and you're not likely to run into anyone who thinks -- and says -- that he or she is enlightened. From what I hear on this forum, take a walk down Main Street in Fairfield and you could run into half a dozen of them. Fairfield is an unusual place. I doubt there is such a high concentration of awakened people in any town. But I distinguish between awakened and enlightened. Awakened is just a significant milestone. Enlightened, in my lexicon, is the Big Kahuna. A rare attainment indeed. Very few people around here are comfortable using that term and I'm suspicious of those few who do.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 2:39 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer r...@... wrote: Hopefully I'll have time tonight to chime in on this thread, as it interests me a lot and I appreciate the stuff folks have been writing. I know you're a busy guy, Rick, but I hope you do get a chance to chime in. Yours is almost always a measured, intelligent voice in the midst of all this chaos, and I'd love to hear your take on the issues of Buddhism (or other teachers, period) and how they're treated in Fairfield, awakening (or what passes for it), and whether the awakened do justice to the term or more closely resemble the cast of Night Of The Living Dead. :-) Thanks for the compliment. Buddhism doesn't have much of a presence here. I seem to recall that a Buddhist monk came to town a few years ago - Doug Hamilton may know - and what probably happened is that a crowd of independent-minded folks went to see him, treated him with due respect, and benefitted from the encounter. That's what usually happens when spiritual teachers come here. What also happens is that the hard-core TMO types stay on campus, some of them wishing they could go too. If a teacher is prominent enough, an official notice is sometimes issued to faculty and staff that they shouldn't attend. Those who do attend may find themselves in hot water with the powers that be. But the number of independent-minded people in FF may well exceed the fundamentalists. If you don't live on campus, your impression of FF would be that it is an open-minded, eclectic spiritual community full of interesting, creative people.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vaj Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:08 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups In terms of Dzogchen View, it's pretty simple, instead of View - Path - Fruit, you take the Fruit, a realization, hopefully the real deal, and apply it as your Path. But really, that's a pathless Path since it really is 'already there', 'gone to the other side'. Nonetheless there are techniques for pathless paths--but they only work if one can take Fruition as the Path. This may seem paradoxical, esp. to people attached to the idea of having gone beyond a path. The fact is if one is established in rigpa or Brahman and has truly overthrown duality, a number signs will spontaneously arise. For some reason, I have yet to see these signs in any of the satsang groups I've visited. No jnana. Little accomplishment. A lotta talk. Most IME haven't passed beyond the stage of talking about experiences. You visit the wrong satsang groups.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sal Sunshine Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:57 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups On Sep 3, 2009, at 1:19 PM, Rick Archer wrote: I don't think it's possible on FFL to mention the topic of seekers becoming finders without it pushing someone's buttons. There's some justification for that, in that many who reported great experiences or Awakening did so to bolster their egos or attract followers. Also, some folks' definition of enlightenment is rather exalted and would exclude all stages of awakening other than the final one. Also, there's a tendency to dismiss claims of awakening in those whose personalities we may not like, or who appear so ordinary. Rick, my comment had nothing to do with liking or not liking some of these-called awakened. Except for one or two people, one of whom I am friends with, the other who is Michael Goodman (enough said, I trust) I don't know for sure who the others are...but I'll bet I could guess by the way some of them act. Funny you should mention ordinariness. The highest complement someone who's Jewish can give someone else is to simply refer to them as a mensch, which basically translates into human being. How much more ordinary can you get than that? It basically means that someone is a good guy, or gal. No superlatives, no attempt to exalt anyone or try to proclaim anyone's superiority (while at the same time subtly putting down others, all while claiming to be humble.) I don't see a whole lot of menschnessamongst those making these claims...just another way to convince others that while these exalted souls might *look* angry, stressed-out, seem to have difficulty forming friendships and have almost non-existant relationships (sometimes) with their children, and generally like they're not having too much fun in life...that it's all good, that's just their outward manifestation, that they really are special and it's your problem if you can't see that...you're not evolved enough. And if their kids wind up messed-up or on drugs, well, they're not evolved enough either. Am I missing something? Sal I don't know Sal. I just know that there are many people in FF who have undergone awakenings. I don't think any of them are final. Everyone still has growing to do. But many are abiding (to use Adyashanti's term) or permanent (so far). Just because one has woken up spiritually doesn't mean that one doesn't still have a lot of personality quirks to work out, and it may take years to do that. I'm not talking about saints. And I'm not talking about people to whom I would apply the term enlightened. I'll reserve that term for those who have worked out all those quirks. Like Barry, I only know of a few of those, and even those undoubtedly have growth yet to undergo.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sal Sunshine Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 4:45 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups I guess it never ceases to amaze me how perfectly rational people can claim to believe is some mystical state of mind that has no criterion by which to identify it, and nobody who's in it ever does anything to benefit anyone else, and if they do it's usually by accident. I don't see how believing in that is any different than believing there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Such terminology is way to absolutist and general for me. I can think of numerous exceptions to it, and what we're discussing here has nothing to do with belief for those experiencing it, only for those attempting to evaluate others' subjective state, which a futile endeavor.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
On Sep 3, 2009, at 6:14 PM, j_alexander_stanley wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: I have only met two or three individuals on this planet whom I suspect of being fully enlightened. Every one of them could not *wait* to wake up each morning and see what new things it had to teach them, what more they could learn that day, and how much they might be changed at the end, of that day. That, to me, is finding something and treating it correctly, as just one more step along a never-ending path. Saying that one has e reached the end of seeking -- to me -- just indi- cates that the person saying it has grown tired or lazy or complacent. The way I see it, before awakening, there is seeking toward a particular end point. After awakening, it's a free-fall into endless finding, and it's all pretty much automatic. Because it's a completely different dynamic than pre-awakening seeking, I wouldn't label the post-awakening embrace of endless finding as a continuation of seeking. In terms of Dzogchen View, it's pretty simple, instead of View - Path - Fruit, you take the Fruit, a realization, hopefully the real deal, and apply it as your Path. But really, that's a pathless Path since it really is 'already there', 'gone to the other side'. Nonetheless there are techniques for pathless paths--but they only work if one can take Fruition as the Path. This may seem paradoxical, esp. to people attached to the idea of having gone beyond a path. The fact is if one is established in rigpa or Brahman and has truly overthrown duality, a number signs will spontaneously arise. For some reason, I have yet to see these signs in any of the satsang groups I've visited. No jnana. Little accomplishment. A lotta talk. Most IME haven't passed beyond the stage of talking about experiences.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
On Sep 3, 2009, at 9:08 AM, dhamiltony2k5 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Sep 2, 2009, at 8:46 PM, jpgillam wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: On Sep 2, 2009, at 9:45 AM, jpgillam wrote: What does it say that there are no Buddhist or zen groups on the list below? [snip] Hordes of TMers have taken up Buddhist or other kinds of Hindu meditation. So why are there not scads of Buddhist groups on Doug's list? I don't expect zen zealots to relocate to Fairfield, Iowa, but I would expect a few former TMers who live there to form zen groups. I can't say such groups do not exist. They might. But I suspect FF is seen as a Hindu style New Age town, based on the what I get from posts on FF spiritual teachers. If they are there, I'd expect them to keep a low profile or be occasional visitors. Yes, that is fairly true. When i've seen it in FF it is fairly clandestine. For instance, the Weds group meditation i go to that is effectively transcendental vipasannaic has a lot of people who also go to the dome, so it is kept under wraps mostly to protect those folks. That's strange to me. I realize the need to conform by being a dome goer but at the same time, it's pretty dishonest to the goal of collective dome meditation to be using another technique or a variation on the technique you're supposed to be doing as 'the same thing, together'. Figure also that the TM movement is culturally so pre-disposed against what they see as buddhist meditations. A profound pre- disposition that is defined from the Transcendental Meditation second lecture that is always given to people as they would start TM. Yeah TM teachers are infamous for spreading disinformation when they aren't really even taught much about meditation in the first place. I think at one time they could get away with that, but now a more savvy public sees through the clearly clueless kind of statements they make. But there is also a sucker born every minute. That preparatory lecture is a complete argument against buddistic type meditations both in theory and with scientific charts from the old days of TM. That argument was an integral part of presenting TM. It was always hard-hitting. Less so today, as it's simply ignorance and dishonesty they're spreading. If you want to teach people meditation, starting out by lying to them and just not really knowing much about different styles of meditation isn't going to help your cause in the long run. This is esp. the case since research in Buddhist meditation has surpassed TM research in both number and quality. When HH the Dalai Lama streamed a live video conference on the latest meditation research a couple of years ago, millions of people signed in to watch across the planet. So figure the TM culture is not very flexible on this point. To the TM culture, buddhism would equal the wrong way. That is from way back in TM culture. There just is not a lot of reception or even respect towards Buddhism within Transcendental Meditation. Hence buddhism has never really taken hold in FF. The bookstores do have books on it. Well unfortunately, I'm sure the TM org still tries to tell people that the Surangama sutra, a Buddhist sutra, is one of the best descriptions of TM!
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of It's just a ride Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:56 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 11:46 PM, Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com mailto:rick%40searchsummit.com wrote: Coincidentally, there was a guy at our Wednesday Night Satsang tonight who identified himself as a Buddhist, and seemed to be really into it. How did the Buddhist react to the pontifications of HH TT? No one was pontificating. It was a packed room and everyone took turns in a very lively discussion that went on 'till 11pm.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 8:31 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups We're back to my earlier advice -- GO PUBLIC. Take it to the newspapers. Take it to the TV stations. Let the cat out of the bag. TELL the greater public what the TMO does to its members on a regular basis. That's what I did when I was booted out. I started FFL using my real name. In fact, I was booted out for sending out organizational emails for the local Amma group using my real name. I should have known that would catch up with me, but I would have done it anyway, because I don't like sneaking around. Not that I haven't done it, but I don't like it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
On Sep 3, 2009, at 9:58 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Fair enough. I accept that your snark was intended as a snarky joke; I probably reacted to it because we hold different assumptions about a couple of concepts. No, Barry, You reacted that way because you're an unenlightened boor who wouldn't know awakening if it introduced itself. :) Didn't you hear Alex? There are people here in FF who have actually woken up! Imagine that. Not to mention all the thousands who presumably wake up every day...that is, unless they don't go to sleep. This whole conversation reeks of more elitism than any proposed CAFO ever could. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
On Sep 3, 2009, at 11:49 AM, j_alexander_stanley wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote: On Sep 3, 2009, at 9:58 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Fair enough. I accept that your snark was intended as a snarky joke; I probably reacted to it because we hold different assumptions about a couple of concepts. No, Barry, You reacted that way because you're an unenlightened boor who wouldn't know awakening if it introduced itself. :) Didn't you hear Alex? There are people here in FF who have actually woken up! Imagine that. Not to mention all the thousands who presumably wake up every day...that is, unless they don't go to sleep. This whole conversation reeks of more elitism than any proposed CAFO ever could. I don't think it's possible on FFL to mention the topic of seekers becoming finders without it pushing someone's buttons. Great way of dismissing the inherent elitism in your comments, Ale. Sal
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of j_alexander_stanley Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 11:49 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups I don't think it's possible on FFL to mention the topic of seekers becoming finders without it pushing someone's buttons. There's some justification for that, in that many who reported great experiences or Awakening did so to bolster their egos or attract followers. Also, some folks' definition of enlightenment is rather exalted and would exclude all stages of awakening other than the final one. Also, there's a tendency to dismiss claims of awakening in those whose personalities we may not like, or who appear so ordinary.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
On Sep 3, 2009, at 1:19 PM, Rick Archer wrote: I don't think it's possible on FFL to mention the topic of seekers becoming finders without it pushing someone's buttons. There's some justification for that, in that many who reported great experiences or Awakening did so to bolster their egos or attract followers. Also, some folks' definition of enlightenment is rather exalted and would exclude all stages of awakening other than the final one. Also, there's a tendency to dismiss claims of awakening in those whose personalities we may not like, or who appear so ordinary. Rick, my comment had nothing to do with liking or not liking some of these-called awakened. Except for one or two people, one of whom I am friends with, the other who is Michael Goodman (enough said, I trust) I don't know for sure who the others are...but I'll bet I could guess by the way some of them act. Funny you should mention ordinariness. The highest complement someone who's Jewish can give someone else is to simply refer to them as a mensch, which basically translates into human being. How much more ordinary can you get than that? It basically means that someone is a good guy, or gal. No superlatives, no attempt to exalt anyone or try to proclaim anyone's superiority (while at the same time subtly putting down others, all while claiming to be humble.) I don't see a whole lot of menschnessamongst those making these claims...just another way to convince others that while these exalted souls might *look* angry, stressed-out, seem to have difficulty forming friendships and have almost non-existant relationships (sometimes) with their children, and generally like they're not having too much fun in life...that it's all good, that's just their outward manifestation, that they really are special and it's your problem if you can't see that...you're not evolved enough. And if their kids wind up messed-up or on drugs, well, they're not evolved enough either. Am I missing something? Sal
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
Hopefully I'll have time tonight to chime in on this thread, as it interests me a lot and I appreciate the stuff folks have been writing.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
Sal Sunshine wrote: On Sep 3, 2009, at 1:19 PM, Rick Archer wrote: I don't think it's possible on FFL to mention the topic of seekers becoming finders without it pushing someone's buttons. There's some justification for that, in that many who reported great experiences or Awakening did so to bolster their egos or attract followers. Also, some folks' definition of enlightenment is rather exalted and would exclude all stages of awakening other than the final one. Also, there's a tendency to dismiss claims of awakening in those whose personalities we may not like, or who appear so ordinary. Rick, my comment had nothing to do with liking or not liking some of these-called awakened. Except for one or two people, one of whom I am friends with, the other who is Michael Goodman (enough said, I trust) I don't know for sure who the others are...but I'll bet I could guess by the way some of them act. Funny you should mention ordinariness. The highest complement someone who's Jewish can give someone else is to simply refer to them as a mensch, which basically translates into human being. How much more ordinary can you get than that? It basically means that someone is a good guy, or gal. No superlatives, no attempt to exalt anyone or try to proclaim anyone's superiority (while at the same time subtly putting down others, all while claiming to be humble.) I don't see a whole lot of menschnessamongst those making these claims...just another way to convince others that while these exalted souls might *look* angry, stressed-out, seem to have difficulty forming friendships and have almost non-existant relationships (sometimes) with their children, and generally like they're not having too much fun in life...that it's all good, that's just their outward manifestation, that they really are special and it's your problem if you can't see that...you're not evolved enough. And if their kids wind up messed-up or on drugs, well, they're not evolved enough either. Am I missing something? Sal You will know you are on the road to enlightenment when you are no longer concerned about it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
On Sep 3, 2009, at 3:15 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote: Rick, my comment had nothing to do with liking or not liking some of these-called awakened. Except for one or two people, one of whom I am friends with, the other who is Michael Goodman (enough said, I trust) I don't know for sure who the others are...but I'll bet I could guess by the way some of them act. Funny you should mention ordinariness. The highest complement someone who's Jewish can give someone else is to simply refer to them as a mensch, which basically translates into human being. How much more ordinary can you get than that? It basically means that someone is a good guy, or gal. No superlatives, no attempt to exalt anyone or try to proclaim anyone's superiority (while at the same time subtly putting down others, all while claiming to be humble.) I don't see a whole lot of menschnessamongst those making these claims...just another way to convince others that while these exalted souls might *look* angry, stressed-out, seem to have difficulty forming friendships and have almost non-existant relationships (sometimes) with their children, and generally like they're not having too much fun in life...that it's all good, that's just their outward manifestation, that they really are special and it's your problem if you can't see that...you're not evolved enough. And if their kids wind up messed-up or on drugs, well, they're not evolved enough either. Am I missing something? Sal Wow. Bravo. Deep bow. You should rant more often. :-) Really, you should. This is a *great* rant, one that just *nails* the issue. It's a very *real* perception of what it's like to live in a small town in which a lot of people are claiming to be special. I think that folks in Fairfield lose sight of the fact that this is not exactly normal, everyday shit. Take a walk down Main Street of most towns in the US and you're not likely to run into anyone who thinks -- and says -- that he or she is enlightened. From what I hear on this forum, take a walk down Main Street in Fairfield and you could run into half a dozen of them. So I think it's good to get a first-hand perspective on how these special people handle themselves. Do they walk their talk? I've run into a few of these special people myself. Not in Fairfield, but in my travels. Sadly, most do not impress. As a good friend of mine said about one of these special people, someone we both know well and love, The thing about W___ is that he never fails to disappoint. We'd love to believe he was enlightened. It's just that he doesn't let us. He keeps doing really dumb shit like you describe above. Well, at least he does something. :) I guess it never ceases to amaze me how perfectly rational people can claim to believe is some mystical state of mind that has no criterion by which to identify it, and nobody who's in it ever does anything to benefit anyone else, and if they do it's usually by accident. I don't see how believing in that is any different than believing there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Or believing in the Pleidians. Not to mention that several of the early enlightened ones have since been shown to be serious weirdos. Sal
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jpgillam Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:46 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups What does it say that there are no Buddhist or zen groups on the list below? For what it's worth, Adyashanti is very popular here. He grew up in the Zen tradition, although I think his teaching transcends isms, so you really couldn't call him a Buddhist.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
On Sep 2, 2009, at 9:45 AM, jpgillam wrote: What does it say that there are no Buddhist or zen groups on the list below? Too many sleepers I guess. If I was showed a meditation center (the dome in this case) or the place in Vedic city, and saw most of the people actually sleeping instead of meditating I seriously doubt I'd be interested. It turns out half of people practicing TM are actually transcendentally, uh, sleeping. It may just be that New Age cities are too narcissistic for an Awakening School (Buddhism). Wrong spiritual supermarket for the product? Hordes of TMers have taken up Buddhist or other kinds of Hindu meditation. I suspect the trend will continue and people will continue to leave as they mature. Of course it could also simply be that Doug is a neo-Hindu and not interested in awakening schools. For most TMers and satsangeroo's the mental plane is where it's at. And talking about it, of course.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
On Sep 2, 2009, at 12:00 PM, WillyTex wrote: What does it say that there are no Buddhist or zen groups on the list below? Vaj wrote: It may just be that New Age cities are too narcissistic for an Awakening School (Buddhism). So, what does it say that the historical Buddha was a Hindu? That he was familiar with authentic Hinduism first hand, as well as Shaivism, etc.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 1:05 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , jpgillam jpgil...@... wrote: What does it say that there are no Buddhist or zen groups on the list below? Because it's stale, outdated religions with no substance and meditation-techniques that doesn't work ? But wouldn't such a thing appeal to the FF vampires?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
On Sep 2, 2009, at 7:46 PM, jpgillam wrote: So why are there not scads of Buddhist groups on Doug's list? I don't expect zen zealots to relocate to Fairfield, Iowa, but I would expect a few former TMers who live there to form zen groups. I hear they keep trying to, but they're too unattached to actually form any. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
On Sep 2, 2009, at 8:46 PM, jpgillam wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: On Sep 2, 2009, at 9:45 AM, jpgillam wrote: What does it say that there are no Buddhist or zen groups on the list below? [snip] Hordes of TMers have taken up Buddhist or other kinds of Hindu meditation. So why are there not scads of Buddhist groups on Doug's list? I don't expect zen zealots to relocate to Fairfield, Iowa, but I would expect a few former TMers who live there to form zen groups. I can't say such groups do not exist. They might. But I suspect FF is seen as a Hindu style New Age town, based on the what I get from posts on FF spiritual teachers. If they are there, I'd expect them to keep a low profile or be occasional visitors. If I was a Buddhist, FF would not be where I would choose to live. FF is a primary TM capital still. A Buddhist, esp. a lay person, would want a retreat center designed as a laboratory for the changes in consciousness s/he would want to explore. Imagine a very specialized Forest Academy and you'll get what I mean. And of course part of leaving the past behind would mean leaving any attachment to places like a primarily Hindu-Vedic FF. You'd move where there are resources. Where could you find something as obscure as a dark retreat cabin or a sealed cave with attendants? I doubt you'd find them in FF, let alone someone qualified to teach you. How about a sealed three-year, three month retreat center? Again: rare birds. I can only guess based on what I've heard here. I was under the impression that some Buddhist teachers had visited or perhaps still do visit FF, but that there were no hardcore groups there. Just my impression. It could be a completely false perception. I haven't lived in FF since the 80's! But it's still a neat place to peep in on. .02 USD
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
For what it's worth, Adyashanti is very popular here. He grew up in the Zen tradition, although I think his teaching transcends isms, so you really couldn't call him a Buddhist. Adya is in a whole 'nother class in that he actively bridges people to awakening. Only a handful of teachers are both able to and wish to work with others in that way and Adya is one of the best at it. Love will swallow you, eat you up completely, until there is no `you,' only love. - Amma --- On Wed, 9/2/09, Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com wrote: From: Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 11:07 AM From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jpgillam Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:46 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups What does it say that there are no Buddhist or zen groups on the list below? For what it's worth, Adyashanti is very popular here. He grew up in the Zen tradition, although I think his teaching transcends isms, so you really couldn't call him a Buddhist.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vaj Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:12 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups On Sep 2, 2009, at 8:46 PM, jpgillam wrote: --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: On Sep 2, 2009, at 9:45 AM, jpgillam wrote: What does it say that there are no Buddhist or zen groups on the list below? [snip] Hordes of TMers have taken up Buddhist or other kinds of Hindu meditation. So why are there not scads of Buddhist groups on Doug's list? I don't expect zen zealots to relocate to Fairfield, Iowa, but I would expect a few former TMers who live there to form zen groups. I can't say such groups do not exist. They might. But I suspect FF is seen as a Hindu style New Age town, based on the what I get from posts on FF spiritual teachers. If they are there, I'd expect them to keep a low profile or be occasional visitors. If I was a Buddhist, FF would not be where I would choose to live. FF is a primary TM capital still. A Buddhist, esp. a lay person, would want a retreat center designed as a laboratory for the changes in consciousness s/he would want to explore. Imagine a very specialized Forest Academy and you'll get what I mean. And of course part of leaving the past behind would mean leaving any attachment to places like a primarily Hindu-Vedic FF. You'd move where there are resources. Where could you find something as obscure as a dark retreat cabin or a sealed cave with attendants? I doubt you'd find them in FF, let alone someone qualified to teach you. How about a sealed three-year, three month retreat center? Again: rare birds. I can only guess based on what I've heard here. I was under the impression that some Buddhist teachers had visited or perhaps still do visit FF, but that there were no hardcore groups there. Just my impression. It could be a completely false perception. I haven't lived in FF since the 80's! But it's still a neat place to peep in on. Coincidentally, there was a guy at our Wednesday Night Satsang tonight who identified himself as a Buddhist, and seemed to be really into it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 11:46 PM, Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com wrote: Coincidentally, there was a guy at our Wednesday Night Satsang tonight who identified himself as a Buddhist, and seemed to be really into it. How did the Buddhist react to the pontifications of HH TT?
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:07 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: Spiritual Practice Groups of Fairfield The long-time Fairfield meditating community today is its own center for spiritual practice. The breadth of spiritual practice groups in Fairfield is now a unique feature of the town in the 21st Century. In other words, a chaos and missmash of spiritual practise, as it turns out; mostly spiritual vampires. No wonder strong forces are working for moving MUM to India. Tell that to the folks who are still pumping millions into building new buildings on campus, and to the parents who wouldn't be too crazy about sending their kids to India.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 4:47 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer r...@... wrote: In other words, a chaos and missmash of spiritual practise, as it turns out; mostly spiritual vampires. No wonder strong forces are working for moving MUM to India. Tell that to the folks who are still pumping millions into building new buildings on campus, and to the parents who wouldn't be too crazy about sending their kids to India. Wealthy people can spend millions on a dead-end road without feeling any pain. And, if their kids went to India to study they would live in Palaces like the Rajas of Old, with the comforts of Royalty. Really? And these Palaces are already there or would they manifest magically as the students arrived? Without having to be exposed to the hangers-on, the spiritual vampires, the lazy lot, the spiritually confused, the many fools of Fairfield and the rumormongers like yourself. Actually, there are many people in FF - hundreds - who have shifted or experienced permanent spiritual awakenings which meet the criteria of MMY's CC, GC, UC, BC, although many of those people find fresh terminology after having arrived at the territory to which MMY's roadmap referred. Some of the these people are still in the TMO. Many have moved on. Few, if any, look back on the TMO with regret or resentment, but many have found that some of the teachers in Doug's list, and other sources of inspiration and wisdom, have provided a valuable perspective or boost that the TMO wasn't able to provide, at least for them. Since you haven't been to FF in decades, you don't really know what you're talking about, but I doubt you'd know what you were talking about even if you came.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Rick Archerr...@searchsummit.com wrote: Actually, there are many people in FF - hundreds - who have shifted or experienced permanent spiritual awakenings which meet the criteria of MMY's CC, GC, UC, BC, although many of those people find fresh terminology after having arrived at the territory to which MMY's roadmap referred. Some of the these people are still in the TMO. Then why, pray tell, do those people in the TMO act like God's gifts to asshole-ism? Don't tell me that you can't tell the state of someone from their actions. This group seems to have an unwritten charter rule that it's all about judging other people and flaming people you disagree with because the way the write, their sentiment, their views are proof that they are in a lesser level of evolution than thou art. Who's this Doug you talk about? I have filters on many non-contributors to the discussion on FFL. Are you talking Doug the sidhi administrator in the Mens Dome?
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of It's just a ride Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:29 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Directory of Active FF Spiritual Practice Groups On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Rick Archerr...@searchsummit.com wrote: Actually, there are many people in FF - hundreds - who have shifted or experienced permanent spiritual awakenings which meet the criteria of MMY's CC, GC, UC, BC, although many of those people find fresh terminology after having arrived at the territory to which MMY's roadmap referred. Some of the these people are still in the TMO. Then why, pray tell, do those people in the TMO act like God's gifts to asshole-ism? Don't tell me that you can't tell the state of someone from their actions. I can guess, and form my own opinion, but I can't tell with certainty. This group seems to have an unwritten charter rule that it's all about judging other people and flaming people you disagree with because the way the write, their sentiment, their views are proof that they are in a lesser level of evolution than thou art. There are people like that in every spiritual group, but that's not who I was referring to. I was referring to people in FF who've had genuine, significant, permanent spiritual awakenings. Many of them are very private about it. They aren't judging others or lording it over them. They may or may not still be in the TMO. Often, but not necessarily, such awakenings occur after people distance themselves from the TMO (or are distanced) and their newfound perspective allows them to shed assumptions that have encumbered them for decades. Who's this Doug you talk about? I have filters on many non-contributors to the discussion on FFL. Are you talking Doug the sidhi administrator in the Mens Dome? No, Doug Hamilton, who posts a directory of active FF spiritual practice groups each month. His doing so started this thread.
