Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-16 Thread Vaj




On May 16, 2006, at 10:40 AM, sparaig wrote:

 MMY's quasi-official announcement on the subject is that for people 
 who are comfortable
 with celibacy, this is the fastest way to get enlightened, but for 
 people who are not, the
 strain of trying to remain celibate is counter-evolutionary. For 
 those people, it is BETTER
 to be married.

 I see no contradiction between his public statements on the subject 
 and his private
 behavior, regardless of the truth of the rumors of his having GFs 
 over the years.

 At worst, he never found a lifemate.

Of course he's lived in a country where prostitution is legal for how 
long now? No need for a lifemate, just cash and a place to go. 






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-16 Thread Vaj




On May 16, 2006, at 11:37 AM, sparaig wrote:


 So you're saying that he's been screwing prostitutes in Holland?


Maybe just working on some new techniques?






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-16 Thread Vaj




On May 16, 2006, at 11:27 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:

 Did any teachers ever date your initiates? I always felt squirrelly
 about this. It seemed to violate the ethics of the therapist/client
 relationship. I remember being attracted to some of them, and
 enjoying the fantasy of slipping in an instruction to
 slowly open the thighs! I don't remember a specific prohibition
 against it.


Let's not forget feel the body... ;-)






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-13 Thread Rick Archer
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?





on 5/13/06 7:02 AM, Jason at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Maharishi has a lot Money. Women are attracted to people with loot of Money. 

 Did Maharishi give those women Money or something,??

In one case he did. After Jennifer left, she got substantial payments for a while. I dont know if it was considered hush money or support money. Jerry Jarvis rather resented having to give it to her. I dont know if others got money, but some got fancy saris, jewelry, etc.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-13 Thread Rick Archer



on 5/13/06 10:22 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 on 5/13/06 7:02 AM, Jason at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Maharishi has a lot Money. Women are attracted to people
 with loot of
 Money. 
 
 Did Maharishi give those women Money or something,??
 
 In one case he did. After Jennifer left, she got substantial
 payments for a
 while. I donĀ¹t know if it was considered hush money or support
 money.
 
 The BIG question here is:
 
 Was the money given in cash? Or cheque?
 
 Paper trail...

35 year old paper trail.








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-13 Thread Rick Archer
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?





on 5/13/06 4:17 PM, Jason Spock at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 

 Ha Ha, My keyboard has a problem with the letter O' . The o's run off without control.
 


 No man in his right mind would call his Secretary into his bedroom at 4.00'am at Night and ask her to read Poetry..!!???
 


 A man is either a Guru or Charlatan. He cannot be both.
 


 You cannot be a little pregnant. Either you're pregnant or not.
 

 you can be pregnant and then have a miscarriage.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-12 Thread Rick Archer



on 5/12/06 3:49 PM, Ingegerd at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I have been working with women that has been abused. And I have no
 doubt that a sexual relationship between the Guru/Maharishi and a
 devotee, is abuse. The feelings of love that we had for MMY (both
 men and women), the power of his charisma, made these women to
 victims. I will say that MMY showed no respect for these women and
 that he is the one to blame.
 Ingegerd

Hey Ingegerd, good to hear from you. It's been a while. How's it going?








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-12 Thread Rick Archer



on 5/12/06 9:48 PM, feste37 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 I just think that to call these women victims is pathetic. They weren't
 victims 
 of anything. They were adult women who were free to do whatever they
 wanted. They weren't coerced. And as far as abuse of power is concerned, it
 seems to me that if these incidents did occur, it was the women who held the
 power over the guru, not the other way round.

Interesting article at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/files/TMO%20--%20the%20Odd%20Sid
e/ on this topic from What is Enlightenment magazine.

If that link is broken: http://tinyurl.com/bt7sp








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?-

2006-05-11 Thread Rick Archer
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?-





on 5/11/06 4:56 AM, Jason Spock at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 

 If this is true, then it's sad. A seer who renounced everything should never initiate relationships.
 

 there are some in the Sexy Sadie file.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-10 Thread Vaj




On May 10, 2006, at 1:15 AM, shempmcgurk wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mahdeealoo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
 
  Why would this female wait til MMY has dropped his body to publish
 a book about this? Is
  there something he could refute/defend, like the fact that he was
 not her boyfriend and
  just her Guru? HELLO! Geez, what people will do for a buck!
 And oh, by the way,
  , couldn't she be a bit more creative? Must be a
 bottle blond.
 
  And does he really give a flying ? My guess would be an
 emphatic NO! The nerve of
  twits. What a joke!
 
  I spent about an hour alone with MMY in 1971 in Fiuggi Fonte. OMG.
 At the end of our
  very private meeting, not another soul around, I told him how I
 loved him (like a father,
  brother, friend, Guru). Guess what he did? He got shy like a
 little school boy, handling
  nervously, the heap of flowers between us on the tabletop. Yep,
 real womanizer. And BTW,
  at 19, I wasn't hard to look at. He sent me happily on my way
 without so much as a wink,
  pat on the butt or head, or a come back and see me sometime. Not
 that it was expected.
  One innocent to another.
 
  I have the utmost respect and appreciation of the highest for this
 man who is trying to
  save the world's ass. To those of you that are sitting there
 sniggering, what have you
  done for the world lately?
 


 There are some who sniggle on this forum, but in my experience not
 many.

 But I have a question for you: Assuming for just a moment that these
 accusations were true, how would that change your practise of TM?

I'd face the picture of Mahesh the other way when my eyes were closed?







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-10 Thread Vaj




On May 10, 2006, at 7:30 AM, mahdeealoo wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I'd face the picture of Mahesh the other way when my eyes were closed?

 Assuming I have pictures of MMY to turn around, why would I face 
 the picture the other way
 when my eyes are closed? I can't see through my eyelids, yet.

It was a jokenevermind...






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-10 Thread Rick Archer



on 5/10/06 12:25 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 Rick, I think of something I remember reading that Paul McCartney
 said to John Lennon on his return to England from India. As you'll
 recall Ringo and Paul left earlier than George and John did, so Paul
 wasn't around when the alleged Sexie Sadie stuff went on in
 Rishikesh.
 
 Anyway, when John was telling him what he thought MMY had done with
 the babes, Paul said something to the effect: Well, what business is
 it of yours what MMY does in his private life?
 
 Sure, MMY has said he is a monk. But, hey, it was never a big
 emphasis on his part. And maybe he decided at one point NOT to
 continue being a monk. If that's the case, isn't he allowed to give
 in to the temptations that the rest of us are?
 
 Are any of the 5+ women that you cite claiming that he took
 advantage of them, abused them in any way, or did things to them
 against their will?

Some of them walked away with no regrets; some bitter and disillusioned.
Most were old enough to make their own decisions (although we've discussed
the implications of disparities in age and authority); one was only 19. That
one bothers me the most. Otherwise, I agree with the points you make above.
I guess MMY decided (or his 2nd chakra decided) that it made no difference
whether he was celibate or not, but he considered it too difficult to alter
his public image, so he did his best to be discrete. I think it would have
been better if he had been public and honest about it, but it was his
business, not mine. 








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-10 Thread Rick Archer



on 5/10/06 12:55 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Are any of the 5+ women that you cite claiming that he took
 advantage of them, abused them in any way, or did things to them
 against their will?
 
 Doesn't that seem like a pretty low bar for a spiritual master?
 
 
 
 
 If all the accusations that Rick has reproduced are true, it would be
 a great disappointment.
 
 But I always ask the question: how would the expose of MMY alleged
 sexual pecadillos affect the practise of my TM?
 
 And the answer is: nada. It should work regardless of the failings or
 successes of any man, including a guru (who is not my guru, anyway).

Agreed. And that was my attitude as a new meditator when friends chided me
about MMY's Rolls Royces and the Beatles' defection. I said, I don't know
or care about that, but I love this meditation. I still say that. And I'm
still very grateful for MMY's blessings on my life. But I like the
unvarnished truth. I find it liberating. So when I became convinced of this
Sexy Sadie stuff, I naturally began to ponder its implications, often in
this forum.








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-10 Thread Rick Archer



on 5/10/06 10:06 AM, curtisdeltablues at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Since I was on a course where sex was forbidden (sidhaland) it would
 have been more human of him to admit that it was not a goal even he
 had achieved. Now I think of it as such a strange instruction, almost
 crazy-making. I mean if God didn't want us to be tempted ,why did he
 make our arms so long?

I think there's a time and place for everything, and I think celibacy has
its value. I'm open to the possibility that in MMY's case, it was no longer
relevant.








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-10 Thread Rick Archer



on 5/10/06 10:48 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I think there's a time and place for everything, and I think
 celibacy has
 its value. I'm open to the possibility that in MMY's case, it was
 no longer
 relevant.
 
 Rick, when you found out and became convinced about MMY's sexual
 exploits, how did that affect your world?

I found out at a time when I was in the process of becoming distanced from
the TMO, so it facilitated that. It also presented an interesting challenge,
because I still acknowledge MMY's greatness as a teacher, at least in his
heyday, and his powerful darshan, resulting presumably from a very high
level of consciousness coupled with an ability to radiate that to others
(all light bulbs are plugged into the same power grid, but some are little
Christmas tree bulbs, while others are powerful search lights). So I took it
as an opportunity to reexamine a lot of assumptions and concepts. I heard
the rumors of this in 1970 when the John Lennon interview came out in
Rolling Stone, and again throughout the years, when various skin boys told
their story. But I was not ready to accept it, so I dismissed it.








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-10 Thread Rick Archer



on 5/10/06 11:26 AM, curtisdeltablues at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I remember when I believed that some people could be completely
 non-sexual. I think that is what I believed about Michael Jackson
 till it all came out. Then I felt so naive!
 
 I had a good friend in the M initiator group who I felt was angelic
 like that. Then it turned out that he was just gay and couldn't
 express his preference and exist in the movement.
 
 Is the movement still puritanical about sex or has the older
 demographic loosened things up?

I don't think much has changed.








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-10 Thread Rick Archer



on 5/10/06 12:57 PM, feste37 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 So why are you making it your business now? People seem very unforgiving.
 This happened, what, 40 years ago? How long are you going to let it bug
 you? Another 40 years? I remember a remark made by the Dalai Lama, to the
 effect that the guru is 90% divine and 10% human, and we have to learn to
 forgive the 10%. If MMY had a weakness for young women, he was not the
 first man to experience such a thing, and it may well have troubled him. Have
 some compassion. 

I agree, and I don't bring up the topic anymore, unless someone asks me
questions about it, which is what happened this time.








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-10 Thread Peter





--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 on 5/10/06 12:55 AM, shempmcgurk at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 curtisdeltablues
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  Are any of the 5+ women that you cite claiming
 that he took
  advantage of them, abused them in any way, or did
 things to them
  against their will?
  
  Doesn't that seem like a pretty low bar for a
 spiritual master?
  
  
  
  
  If all the accusations that Rick has reproduced
 are true, it would be
  a great disappointment.
  
  But I always ask the question: how would the
 expose of MMY alleged
  sexual pecadillos affect the practise of my TM?
  
  And the answer is: nada. It should work
 regardless of the failings or
  successes of any man, including a guru (who is not
 my guru, anyway).
 
 Agreed. And that was my attitude as a new meditator
 when friends chided me
 about MMY's Rolls Royces and the Beatles'
 defection. I said, I don't know
 or care about that, but I love this meditation. I
 still say that. And I'm
 still very grateful for MMY's blessings on my life.
 But I like the
 unvarnished truth. I find it liberating. So when I
 became convinced of this
 Sexy Sadie stuff, I naturally began to ponder its
 implications, often in
 this forum.

I think it really is what drives FFL: the Big Paradox
of MMY and the TMO. On one hand great and on the other
hand profoundly dysfunctional. You can't outright
dismiss MMY/TMO because that would be denying, for
many, their direct experience of profound/estatic
states of Being triggered through MMY or their
TM/TM-sidhhis practice. But at that same time you can
not deny the amazing craziness the TMO/MMY has become
and was in many instances. Curtis (hey! How are you?)
you had good experiences through MMY/TM/TM-siddhis, I
assume. How do you balance/reconcile/whatever your
good experiences with the self-evident whackiness?
-Peter







 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-10 Thread Rick Archer
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?





on 5/10/06 4:15 PM, Jason Spock at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Do you think a Great Spiritual leader like Maharishi would be stupid enough to first approach those 5+ women first.??
 
 If this is true, those 5+ women would have initiated the first move and Maharishi might have responded just to NOT disappoint those women.
 
Many people blame rape victims for tempting the rapists. MMY did have many gorgeous babes gushing love in his direction, so it wasnt a one-way street. But if he was really a yogi with senses fully under control, shouldnt he have been able to resist temptation? Maybe not. The scriptures are full of stories of great saints who were unable to. Any of us might have done the same thing in his position.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?

2006-05-10 Thread Sal Sunshine



On May 10, 2006, at 6:13 PM, shempmcgurk wrote:

 How much do you want to bet that this fellow is still teaching TM
 for two -- and ONLY two -- reasons:

 1) MMY is NOT aware that a homosexual is giving out his teaching; and

 2) His brother is high-placed in the TMO.

 3) The TMO is so desperate he could be wearing a dress and high 
heels and he'd still be teaching.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?-

2006-05-10 Thread Rick Archer
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?-





on 5/10/06 6:27 PM, Jason Spock at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 

 Jokes apart, Sir Archer mentioned that it wasn't a One-Way street.
 


 If the women did initiate and Maharishi was forced to Satisfy their sexual urges, then It's not really Maharishi's fault.
 


 He can't say NO and disappoint his disciples.??
 
Maharishi initiated all the relationships Im aware of, but never forcefully. The accounts indicate that he didnt display the coercion and persistence that usually characterizes men overshadowed by lust. If the woman indicated she wasnt interested, he backed off immediately.






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