Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Illusion of individuality; labels; true bhakti; the story of Guru Dev and hi
Bob Ferguson told this story at the Wellesley TM Center back in the mid-70s, except the disciple was not Guru Dev and the disciple did not come to a satsang to convey what he meant. Considering Bob's memory of this story was likely pretty fresh thirty years ago, I'll go with Bob's version. --- anonyff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Personally I think that MDG is a moodmaker who feels > compelled to tell > us all how great he is (repeatedly and ad nauseum) > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli > Mattsson" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I liked this post a lot. It is an honest account > of Goodman's personal > > path and of his own insights and discriminations. > I find Goodman's > > relationship to MMY have similar qualities than > the TM-teacher I meet > > every now and then at lunch. That teacher has done > the > > re-certification course. All the apparent > absurdities in the movement > > don't bother him. He is somehow happily beyond > them. There is > > something very beautiful and innocent in his > relationship to MMY. The > > absurdities of the movement seem to have had a > softening and moulding > > effect on his earlier quite rigid beliefs and > attachments. I respect > > his devotion very much and I consider him to be > doing fine. > > > > To be a `true believer' in this way is a fine and > beautiful thing. To > > be a TB in a way as to using one's only right > belief as a > > justification to morally low actions, and abuse > and control of others > > is an distorted form, but quite common. This form > of the TB phenomenon > > has mostly been discussed here and this discussion > is very important. > > > > My main criticism is of Goodman's post is that > he tries to make > > wrong this kind of discussion. Or at least he > claims reasoning in > > those lines to be at the same level as the > fundamentalist's reasoning, > > only from the opposite direction. I disagree. > Sometimes > > fundamentalism can become wrapped in rigid > rationality or > > rationalisations and use of science as religion. > In those cases his > > criticism is appropriate, otherwise not. > > > > I also disagree with the idea that no one is > objective until they are > > re-established in the Self. I claim that we cannot > even then be fully > > objective, to be representing the absolute truth. > The absolute is > > beyond the manifest phenomenal world. When the I > becomes established > > in the transcendental, it becomes very stable and > dis-identified with > > ideas of oneself, gross or subtle emotions etc. > This I has no form, > > not even truth as we understand it. > > > > This kind of I does not so easily identify with > subjective states and > > therefore it is capable of looking at also > internal phenomenon from a > > stable and calm position. It is very difficult to > hurt this kind of I. > > Still it also always looks at things from a > perspective, maybe from > > several perspectives, but never from all the > possible and valid > > perspectives. > > > > I agree fully of the importance of surrendering > the gross level > > calculating intellect as an ultimate guiding > light. We cannot evolve > > to higher ways of being, or stages of development > by relying on our > > intellect. Our intellect can create only > variations of structures > > familiar to us. If we want to evolve we have to > surrender and let > > ourselves to be guided. But simultaneously our > discriminative capacity > > and sound judgement are great assets in avoiding > pitfalls while > > surrendering. Otherwise surrendering may > insidiously change to > > regression. And we start using intellect to find > justifications to our > > morally low actions. However the reality is > usually more complicated > > than this division because often surrender and > regression are both > > present and we are not capable of discriminating > them from each other. > > > > I also personally feel to be strongly guided. Not > by any single being > > in physical form, present or past, rather by all > of them. I have also > > surrendered to and am also guided by the > transcendental that is > > beyond my understanding and intellect. > > > > Irmeli > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean > Goodman > > wrote: > > > > > > THE STRUGGLE OF INDIVIDUALITY TO PERPETUATE ITS > ILLUSION > > > > > > I feel compassionately sad whenever I meet those > who still cling > > > to the idea that their individuality (individual > intellect) can > > > guide them to the goal of realization, of > remembering, of waking > > > up again to Reality. They're sure that they > don't need a guide > > > on the path, don't need to surrender control, > don't need to ask > > > for help, and don't need to embrace their > intellect's incompetence > > > and impotence to handle the job. > > > > > > They are sure that their relative, finite > intellect, bound in the > > > world of space and time, can grok and master > infinity, the field > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Illusion of individuality; labels; true bhakti; the story of Guru Dev and hi
on 3/10/06 11:26 PM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >> And now he's a raja and Maharishi has changed his name from Black to > Bright, >> so let that be a lesson for all those of lesser faith! >> > Did he need a million for his rajahood? I'm sure he did. Probably some Silicon Valley benefactor sent him. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Illusion of individuality; labels; true bhakti; the story of Guru Dev and hi
> Only the last three scores > were mine. Those were my favorite three. :) --- TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael > Dean Goodman > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > THE STRUGGLE OF INDIVIDUALITY TO PERPETUATE > ITS ILLUSION > > > > > > > > > < snipt out of compassion for bandwidth > > > > > > > > > Scorecard: > > > > - Number of lines: 593 > > > > - Number of words: 5,337 > > > > - Number of pages: 14 > > > > - Flesch Reading Ease score: 70 (out of 100) > > > > - Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level score: 4.9 > (almost fifth grade) > > > > - Outrage quotient: 100 (out of 100) > > > > - Hot air quotient: 100 (out of 100) > > > > - Self-importance quotient: 100 (out of 100) > > > > > > Thanks Barry for this final confirmation: I was > right about you. > As > > > this is obviously all you can say about the > topic, it is actually > > > true, you have no idea about Bhakti. Poor you! > > > > I don't know if Barry knows anything about Bhakti > or not, > > but it is obvious that THIS comment was merely > meant to > > "score points." > > If so, I must share my award with Microsoft Word. > It came up with the first five scores, including > the one that determined that he was writing at > a fifth-grade level. Only the last three scores > were mine. > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ~--> > Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and > poor with hope and healing > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM > ~-> > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Illusion of individuality; labels; true bhakti; the story of Guru Dev and hi
on 3/10/06 10:15 AM, markmeredith2002 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > PS -- I always admired john black who got exiled from int'l and banned > from courses for a little mistake. He left as told but continued to > successfully teach tm for decades at a local center. He showed great > devotion to MMY's teachings by continuing to teach even though he kept > getting turned down from courses. He never made a big deal about > being a cosmic bhakti, he just lived it very simply. And now he's a raja and Maharishi has changed his name from Black to Bright, so let that be a lesson for all those of lesser faith! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
