Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
Back in the day, Maharishi wanted MIU graduates to be given a printout that showed their progress toward enlightenment. The idea was to run a baseline measurement upon entering the University to compare to a final assessment upon graduation. Apparently they ran into some problems with that idea - as with most of MMY's ideas, huh? If the school were more ecumenical, they could be a center for such research, teaming up with Buddhists and others interested in determining markers of awakening. That would have been kinda cool. From: Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net To: Patrick Gillam jpgil...@yahoo.com Sent: Monday, January 5, 2009 10:45:07 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions On Jan 5, 2009, at 10:30 AM, Patrick Gillam wrote: I'm with Hugo on this one. I thought it was Maharishi University's job to determine the physiological parameters of higher states of consciousness. And of course you're exactly right, that was one of the good things about MMY: opening up the field of meditation research by acknowledging these realities. We all have physical bodies last time I checked! The Two Truths, the relative and absolute, arise simultaneously and inseparably, so anyone trying to claim they're somehow beyond confirmation via some absolutist criteria should immediately be considered suspect. And the same goes with all the traditional criteria: they're there for a reason, and MMY did authentically enumerate some of them. It's interesting to me how offended the enlightened are when this is mentioned. I've seen a number of people be tested, myself included and it was extremely helpful for not falling into self-delusion and self-deception.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of curtisdeltablues Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 10:19 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions Robert: I didn't know who Ravi was, at the time, but the image of him, outside, all that time, wearing nothing but a dhoti and a blanket, impresses me, to this day. Rick: I helped set up the stage that day. There was an electric heater a few feet away from him, blowing on him. Now I have coffee in my nose! Thanks Rick! Ordinarily that Ayur Vedic treatment costs $1000, so you owe me one.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of enlightened_dawn11 Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 11:19 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer r...@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of enlightened_dawn11 Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 12:16 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions that they wanted to build monumental tributes to him was something he could not and would not reject at the end of his life. They did not come up with the idea of building Towers of Invincibility, World's Tallest Building, etc. Your calling him the Maharishi implies you never spent much time around him. If you had, you would have observed that he was a cornucopia of such ideas. Few others came up with anything novel. Maharishi was the idea man. Others tried to fulfill his ideas. yes, i have heard this too, that the Maharishi came up with the ideas. seems appropriate. the point i was making was that his ideas were in response to what he saw as the needs of those around him and dedicated to him. So those around him needed the world's tallest building, to heap praise on Robert Mugabe, etc.?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
Turq wrote: But what makes it funniest is that Vaj and I have said many times that neither of us is any kind of formal Buddhist. But in fact, Fred Lenz founded his very own religion called 'American Buddhism'; but it remains to be seen if you were a leader in that cult, like you claim to be in the Marshy cult. Go figure. Others seem capable only of demonizing the critics. So, you want to 'demonize' the TMers? This doesn't even make any sense, Turq. Apparently you wanted TM to be a religion, but when you found that it was just a relaxation technique, you became bitter and disappointed, so you walked away and joined another cult led by a guy who proclaimed himself as God incarnate, the tenth Vishnu Avatara. Go figure. ...who dragged him to the Min- istry, where he was pronounced guilty and summarily garroted in public. Oh, so now if anyone criticizes you, they are out to 'garrot you' in public. So you think your critics, Jim and Judy, are trying to kill you? Poor Barry.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 1:41 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer r...@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 2:26 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions I remember, one time, when Maharishi was visiting Fairfield, and they were starting to build the first dome. Bramacharya Shankar, was sitting, 'In the Dome', chanting the Vedas... At the time, it was far too cold to be outside, for any length of time, as it felt like it was about minus ten degrees outside. The dome hadn't been completed yet, and Ravi was shaking with cold, by the time Maharishi finally came to bless the dome. I didn't know who Ravi was, at the time, but the image of him, outside, all that time, wearing nothing but a dhoti and a blanket, impresses me, to this day. I helped set up the stage that day. There was an electric heater a few feet away from him, blowing on him. Yes, but I still remember that Maharishi was a bit late, and this guy was freezing by the time he appeared. I was waiting in an adjacent Frat, next to where he was staying, because it was too damn cold for me...that day... But, thanks for the heater, Rick...that probably saved his life. R.G. I didn't provide the heater, it was just there. But I remember that someone offered him a blanket, and he waved it off, as if to say to the crowd watching, I am impervious to the cold. But I knew the heater was there, keeping him warm. So that seemed rather disingenuous to me at the time.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
Turq wrote: I remember this side of Maharishi well, and saw it clearly when several of his favorites grew up and realized that they no longer needed him as a Daddy figure in their lives... Maybe so, and it took you what, over 24 years to leave your two Daddie figures, the Marshy and the Rama. And maybe now you're trashing the Marshy and the Rama just because you were not one of their favorites. LOL! We are not really separate beings of light. That's a dream we are having, the dream of multiplicity. Meditation takes us beyond the moment to eternal awareness. Main Page: www.ramaquotes.com Mysticism - Dreaming: www.ramaquotes.com/html/dreaming.html Read comments by Uncle Tantra: From: Buddhist Monk Subject: Quotations by Zen Master Rama Newsgroups: alt.meditation, alt.meditation.transcendental Date: Fri, Jan 13 2006 http://tinyurl.com/6v7owc
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
An unsnippable post. As the only impartial member of FFL, I vote this post as a keeper, as one should be indexed as Is TM a Religion?. There are two aspects to the religion question. One is during the teaching does it look, smell and taste like a religion. Well, yes and no. It has aspects of a religion like the puja but during the initial 7 steps no worldview is presented, so no it's not a religion. Then there's the question of externally does it appear to be a religion? I think in what may be one of the best times for well worded threads and that Barry's post definitely hits the nail on the head. The head guy appears to believed it was a religion. On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:44 AM, TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: This is very true, Stu, but I think it can be considered a mistake only if one's intent IS to create a religion. It seems to me that in the realm of traditions that seek enlightenment, a teacher has a clear- cut choice. Either he can focus on the enlight- enment of others, or he can focus on getting his followers to worship him. You can't do both. If you allow your students to become enlightened, or to be recognized as enlightened, then almost by definition they then become on a par with the teacher. Only a teacher who really cares more about the enlightenment of others than he cares about the exaltation of himself allows his students to be on the same plane that he is. I think that, in retrospect, it is clear that Maharishi sought to create a religion. What other reason could be proposed for the creation of the gaudy phalluses called Maharishi Towers Of Invincibility around the world? What can these phalluses actually DO to facilitate the enlightenment of others? Do you miraculously realize your enlightenment by circumabulating them? Will the mere sight of them release stress in the diligent seeker and bring them to their own real- ization? I think not. I think that their purpose was to attempt to create a religion with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi as its focal point. Think of the hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not millions) being spent to erect these enormous dicks around the world. Now think of the number of people who could have been taught basic TM (and thus, theoretically at least, had a method of real- izing their own enlightenment provided to them) for the same amount of money. Now think about the word priorities. At the beginning of his teaching, Maharishi used to talk about the need to raise money so that TM could continue to be taught. At the end of it, the only thing he seemed to care about was how many phalluses could be built with his name on them. Call me a cynic, but I don't see that last desire on his part as having anything to do with wanting to bring enlightenment to others.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
On Jan 4, 2009, at 2:59 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Whatever good Maharishi did -- for individuals and the world -- was undercut and rendered tragic for me by his last days, which were straight out of King Lear. He gathered around him all of the Rajas and all of the rich meditators and forced them to compete with each other Actually, didn't Lear learn his lesson at the end? Been a long time since I've read it. like Regan and Goneril and Ophelia Cordelia. Back to the books, Barry. :) in a contest to see who could praise him the most gloriously. I'm sorry, but in my book that's how tragic characters from a Shakespearean drama end their lives, not how enlightened beings end them. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- On Sun, 1/4/09, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Unfortunately you hit the nail headon in this one. I say unfortunately because I find it saddening that someone can be so full of venom and hate towards universal knowledge as the Turq and Vaj examplify. (This is just an example, Vaj never met Maharishi and the Turq was denied further access due to security concerns) Probably many Buddhists, not gaining any headway towards fulfillment due to their futile moodmaking in this and former lives seek the solace of this life's past activities; past opportunities opening upp early in their twenties, but so utterly vasted. A past, and a glimpse into the Heaven on Earth in the company of The Yogi of Yogis so bitterly lost to arrogance and ego. Yes, Nabs, you have that arrogance and ego thing nailed!! To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- On Sun, 1/4/09, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 4:59 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: I hear you, sister. When I first met Maharishi in the summer of 1972 I exploded into infinity. Came back about twenty minutes later, but wow! I can joke and pretend to make light of it in posts like this, but my God, everything becomes different after that. Something has so fundamentally changed in you, that there is never a turning back. No matter what the relative nonsense might be, no matter how shocking to the mind/ego and how absolutely valid on this level it might be, you know, as Maharishi said once, in your heart who he is. Just amazing. Wonderful. Thank you for posting this Peter. You are quite welcome, Nabs. We certainly can go at it from time to time, but we are in accord as to what Maharishi is/was. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 4:06 PM, raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com wrote: The Vedic Atom was a boiling cauldron of 10 rigidly inflexible egos with strong personalities all bumping into each other Raunch, remember that there are guys who belong to FFL. Guys who paid the ultimate price for society and the survival of the Human Race: we married women. We know from experience that what our fathers taught us is forever true: that arguing with a woman is like trying to read a newspaper in the wind. We know why so many men die earlier than their wives: because they can. We know what it's like to marry a women though we're not quite what they were looking for in a mate, but close enough, we can be trained. We know what it's like to be constantly told that we're just boys with toys and that we never grow up. We know how difficult it is for our womenfolk to bring us around, as the one who wears the pants and ultimately makes the final choice, to making the decision the wife had already made.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of enlightened_dawn11 Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 12:16 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions that they wanted to build monumental tributes to him was something he could not and would not reject at the end of his life. They did not come up with the idea of building Towers of Invincibility, World's Tallest Building, etc. Your calling him the Maharishi implies you never spent much time around him. If you had, you would have observed that he was a cornucopia of such ideas. Few others came up with anything novel. Maharishi was the idea man. Others tried to fulfill his ideas.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 2:26 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions I remember, one time, when Maharishi was visiting Fairfield, and they were starting to build the first dome. Bramacharya Shankar, was sitting, 'In the Dome', chanting the Vedas... At the time, it was far too cold to be outside, for any length of time, as it felt like it was about minus ten degrees outside. The dome hadn't been completed yet, and Ravi was shaking with cold, by the time Maharishi finally came to bless the dome. I didn't know who Ravi was, at the time, but the image of him, outside, all that time, wearing nothing but a dhoti and a blanket, impresses me, to this day. I helped set up the stage that day. There was an electric heater a few feet away from him, blowing on him.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
-Original Message- From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Archer Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:18 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions I know quite a few who have gotten enlightened (I don't like the terminology). Maybe it's just because I don't hang around with many true-blue Ru's, but most of the people I'm referring to, although appreciative of the contribution MMY and TM have made to their lives, are in a fairly distant orbit from the movement. In some cases, it appears to me that their awakening occurred shortly after they distanced themselves from the movement and thus broke free of habitual belief patterns. Or maybe they distanced themselves because they were awakening (graduating) and those belief patterns were beginning to unravel. Hard to tell which is the cart and which the horse. The TMO/MUM is an incubator. Once you've hatched, you're probably going to want to expand your territory and not stay in the incubator. I should add that there are many stages or degrees of awakening, and people, and the followers they attract, often mistake initial or intermediate stages with final ones (if there are any). (see Halfway up the Mountain - The Error of Premature Claims to Enlightenment, by Mariana Caplan - http://tinyurl.com/6tyssk). Here are the main reasons I think few in the TMO claim enlightenment: 1) Maharishi is held up as the example of Enlightenment, and an ordinary guy who is not like Maharishi wouldn't be believed, or believe himself. Even though Maharishi never flew, didn't have perfect health, etc., he established those and other abilities and attributes as necessary criteria for enlightenment. In the TMO culture, unless you meet those criteria, you're not enlightened. In other words, the TMO has placed enlightenment as an impossibly distant goal, and most in the Movement have been conditioned to believe that they couldn't possibly be anywhere near it, even though it may be staring them in the face. 2) The Robin Carlsen legacy - the best-known example of someone in the TMO claiming Enlightenment was an egotistical nutcase, so anyone who claims it now is suspect, is likely to have his dome badge revoked, be ostracized by his friends, etc. That's one reason those who claim Awakening tend to be independent-minded people, not caring about having a dome badge, willing find new friends, etc. And many of these don't claim it publically. Even close friends and business partners may not suspect.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
NOT ONE! Areed Turq, the TMO has not produced one enlightened personaccording to the powers that be conception of enlightenment. And there's the catch. There has been such an investment in the idea of enlightenment rather than the actual direct realization, that any criteria are in the realm of personality, rather than the transcendent apperception of consciousness conscious of its own consciousness. Personalities are all over the friggin' place and have essentially nothing to do with Realization. To quote SCI Lesson #874692762875, The infinite value is present at every moment in the point value. Also, why would someone who was realized have anything to do with the TMO? As Rick pointed out, leaving the TMO and enlightenment seem to be concomitant phenomena. An organization driven by personality/ego is necessarily insane. When consciousness becomes conscious of consciousness (CBCC-new term for enlightenment!) a sweet breeze blows through the room and all personality/ego driven thought, feeling and behavior is seen clearly as madness in that context-less context. --- On Sat, 1/3/09, TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 9:12 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote: -Original Message- From: On Behalf Of Rick Archer I know quite a few who have gotten enlightened (I don't like the terminology). Maybe it's just because I don't hang around with many true-blue Ru's, but most of the people I'm referring to, although appreciative of the contribution MMY and TM have made to their lives, are in a fairly distant orbit from the movement. In some cases, it appears to me that their awakening occurred shortly after they distanced themselves from the movement and thus broke free of habitual belief patterns. Or maybe they distanced themselves because they were awakening (graduating) and those belief patterns were beginning to unravel. Hard to tell which is the cart and which the horse. The TMO/MUM is an incubator. Once you've hatched, you're probably going to want to expand your territory and not stay in the incubator. Rick, I have no problem with this. My point was, and I consider the point valid, there is NOT ONE PERSON whom the *TM movement* can point to and say, This person is enlightened. We 'certify' that this person is enlightened, and because we believe in validating what we say with science, you can take this person to the labs and test them as an *example* of enlightenment. I should add that there are many stages or degrees of awakening, and people, and the followers they attract, often mistake initial or intermediate stages with final ones (if there are any). (see Halfway up the Mountain - The Error of Premature Claims to Enlightenment, by Mariana Caplan - http://tinyurl.com/6tyssk). Again, I have no problem with this, in TM, or in any other movement that claims to have a path to enlightenment. Hell, *I* experienced periods of awakening during my TM days that I mistook for enlightenment; if that can happen to *me*, whom many here go out of their way to characterize as being lower than the lint in an earthworm's navel, it can happen to anyone. :-) But my point is that the *TM organization* does not have even ONE person to whom they can point and say, WE certify that this person has achieved the goal we are selling. NOT ONE. And this in an organization that makes a pretense of scientific validation of its claims. Doncha think that if they had one -- even ONE -- that they'd *rush* them to the labs for testing? Doncha think they'd try to get them on Leno? Fifty years. Not ONE graduate of the course. Here are the main reasons I think few in the TMO claim enlightenment: 1) Maharishi is held up as the example of Enlightenment, and an ordinary guy who is not like Maharishi wouldn't be believed, or believe himself. Even though Maharishi never flew, didn't have perfect health, etc., he established those and other abilities and attributes as necessary criteria for enlightenment. In the TMO culture, unless you meet those criteria, you're not enlightened. In other words, the TMO has placed enlightenment as an impossibly distant goal, and most in the Movement have been conditioned to believe that they couldn't possibly be anywhere near it, even though it may be staring them in the face. I completely agree. 2) The Robin Carlsen legacy - the best-known example of someone in the TMO claiming Enlightenment was an egotistical nutcase... I would go so far as to say that there were *two* cases in the TMO of someone claiming enlightenment who were egotistical nutcases. Hint: the second one
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
On Jan 3, 2009, at 3:39 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: Mind you, I assert that I belong to the cult of TM. No matter what my reasons for visiting a whorehouse, if I were to visit one, I should consider myself a john and there ain't two ways about it. I could not agree more. I freely admit that my participation in both the TMO and later the Rama trip was me being involved in a cult. I got a lot *from* my involvement in each of the cults, thank you. I couldn't agree more either. I freely admit that *both* of you were/are brainwashed cult groupies. (tee hee!) :) Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
On Jan 3, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Rick Archer wrote: 2) The Robin Carlsen legacy - the best-known example of someone in the TMO claiming Enlightenment was an egotistical nutcase, so anyone who claims it now is suspect, is likely to have his dome badge revoked, be ostracized by his friends, etc. That's one reason those who claim Awakening tend to be independent-minded people, not caring about having a dome badge, willing find new friends, etc. And many of these don't claim it publically. Even close friends and business partners may not suspect. Gosh, Rick, these enlightened beings look just like everyone else--imagine that! I guess they must keep their haloes hidden so as not to scare off the ignorant masses, and trot them out only for their friends. How thoughtful of them. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- On Sat, 1/3/09, Stu buttspli...@gmail.com wrote: From: Stu buttspli...@gmail.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 1:34 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: snip The first thing that strikes me about what you say (and for the record I have no reason to disagree with any of it based on my own exper- ience in the distant TMO past) is that it is likely that the *result* of this is that NO ONE WILL *EVER* BE CERTIFIED AS ENLIGHTENED BY THE SPIRITUAL TRADITION CREATED BY MAHARISHI MAHESH YOGI. snip I think your on to something Barry. I am reminded by a huge mistake John Smith made when he put together the Mormon religion. He allowed followers to have independent visions. In every major religion only the founder is allowed to have visions. Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, Arjuna, for example all get to have their visions but followers are not to privy to the special powers. John Smith screwed up and as a result every Tom, Dick and Harry in Utah can have a vision and start their own version of Mormonism. Every nook and cranny in the state is filled with cult compounds. Some of these cults are dangerous - ask Elizabeth Smart. The point here is that if your running the show you can't have a bunch of TMers running around saying they're enlightened and breaking off and start their own clubs, temples, boutiques and spas. Once a follower is certified enlightened, then how can you hold bend them to your whim? How can you turn a profit with that sort of competition? s. When Sri Sri Ravi Shankar became enlightened and shortly thereafter cognized Sadarshan Kriya, he told MMY about it and wanted to teach it through the TMO. Maharishi told him to teach on his own. SSRS didn't leave for a year but finally left and the rest is history as they say. SSRS didn't want to leave. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 11:54 AM, TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.comwrote: Rick is an honorable man. Quite low key but stronger than an elephant in his quiet way. I believe him that he knows enlightened people. He happens to know me and is a witness to the signs that I've been having some flashy experiences over the past year. No, no claim of enlightment here, just a claim that life is interesting and livey and that's enough for me. Myself, I don't need a certificate. Damn, man, the Kingdom of God is within you and you are in every direction you look (a constant experience of mine). What use is a piece of paper? And Sal, have your laugh that I am a TB member of a cult. This cult has done OK by me, considering. I am very happy to be having these experiences and these experiences are enough for me. If I were met at the Dome by the powers that be asking for my badge, that would be fine and dandy with me. It's not like Devco can't piece together all I posts and figure out who I am. I've graduated, except I like the experiences I often get in the Dome (when things are really hopping and the numbers are up) and well, old habits die hard. I believe that certifying people as being enlightened, whatever that means, would not be productive for the TMO. The Gita and SOB have not sunk into enough people inside and beyond the TMO. If anybody thinks that The Big Embarrassment is a crock of shit (but in many ways a useful crock of shit, because I like the feel of vastu), then consider what a crock of shit we'd had on their hands if we actually had examples of enlightened people to gawk at. This one likes rollerblading. So I guess I'll add rollerblading to my daily routine. This woman has been married to the same man all her life and has lovely and children. I'd better hurry up and get remarried. This one likes the spicy shrimp curry at Thai Palace. God I hate Thai food, but looks like that's going to be the basis of my new diet. I agree with Rick that the TMO is a great incubator. Perhaps it's success should not be measured in how many have stayed but how many have moved on. I don't think Maharishi was deluded or deluding when he said that TM was the fastest, most powerful way to achieve enlightenment. I believe that given the kind of people who came, the diverse lives they lead that TM works pretty well. I also think that those of you who have left the TMO are proof that TM works. It helped you get to your senses and find that for you in particular there were better things which suit you. I do agree with the statements that Maharishi became very interested in cashflow when the Merv Wave died and each of the many embarrassments did generate a lot of money and did some good. Lord knows there are a lot of members of FFL who have learned Sanskrit and Jyotish. I look at Maharishi as the headmaster for a prep school. A kind of embarassing prep school, but a prep school with some pretty notable graduates nonetheless.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
Nabs, I know SSRS quite well, he's a sat guru. You don't know him, so what you speak about him is simply your projections. But you are correct, he's the only guru that's come out of the TM movement. Enlightened people, but no guru's except him --- On Sat, 1/3/09, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 6:11 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: When Sri Sri Ravi Shankar became enlightened and shortly thereafter cognized Sadarshan Kriya, he told MMY about it and wanted to teach it through the TMO. Maharishi told him to teach on his own. SSRS didn't leave for a year but finally left and the rest is history as they say. SSRS didn't want to leave. Does Ravi Shankar claim enlightenment ? And he was doing TM for years, no ? Oh, no, ofcourse he didn't, he probably was doing something else even though he was Maharishi's student. Because if he did there you'd have one enlightened fellow from TM right there. This Ravi Shankar thing is mainly moodmaking; look into each others eyes and tell them you love them, hold each others hands and form a circle, blabla etcetc. The technique is far from what has been described as TM+advanced technique; it's just a simple pranayama, and Ravi is just a simple, but probably nice fellow that needs to do some serious sadhana. In a talkshow I watched in India he was asked how it felt to be a guru. He blushed intensely, denying he was a guru, the whole thing got very comical. The fellow abviously wants to be a guru, but does not have the credidentials. Nabby, from http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/102304 :-) And, what are you tring to say ? That you are sick and obsessed, looking up quotes from years back - that you need professional help ? But we knew that already, Turq. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 8:12 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions Rick, I have no problem with this. My point was, and I consider the point valid, there is NOT ONE PERSON whom the *TM movement* can point to and say, This person is enlightened. We 'certify' that this person is enlightened, and because we believe in validating what we say with science, you can take this person to the labs and test them as an *example* of enlightenment. One exception to this is Fred Travis's research. Fred has tested many people who claim to have permanent witnessing, Unity experiences, etc. He publishes his research, but the individuals' names are not released. So I think in a roundabout way, the TMO does acknowledge that many people are experiencing symptoms of enlightenment, but Maharishi was never into certifying these people (with the possible exception of Tony Nader) and none of the current TMO administration feel qualified to certify them.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sal Sunshine Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 11:36 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions On Jan 3, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Rick Archer wrote: 2) The Robin Carlsen legacy - the best-known example of someone in the TMO claiming Enlightenment was an egotistical nutcase, so anyone who claims it now is suspect, is likely to have his dome badge revoked, be ostracized by his friends, etc. That's one reason those who claim Awakening tend to be independent-minded people, not caring about having a dome badge, willing find new friends, etc. And many of these don't claim it publically. Even close friends and business partners may not suspect. Gosh, Rick, these enlightened beings look just like everyone else--imagine that! I guess they must keep their haloes hidden so as not to scare off the ignorant masses, and trot them out only for their friends. How thoughtful of them. As it turns out, no one is there at your graduation - no witnesses - so others, if you want to convince them, can only be convinced verbally. Your behavior may, and hopefully does, give them an indication, but no proof.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 11:55 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions Even given the problems associated with certifying enlightenment, I still have to believe that a trad- ition like this in which it is permitted to announce your enlightened is more likely to actually produce enlightenment than a tradition in which announcing the good news may result in you being expelled and declared a heretic. You may be right, and as a consequence, many in the TMO who wake up decide it's time for them to leave. As I said, it's an incubator. Incubators get a little crowded once you've hatched.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stu Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:35 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions The point here is that if your running the show you can't have a bunch of TMers running around saying they're enlightened and breaking off and start their own clubs, temples, boutiques and spas. Once a follower is certified enlightened, then how can you hold bend them to your whim? How can you turn a profit with that sort of competition? As MMY said to a friend of mine, allegedly with tears in his eyes, before giving him the boot: You're getting too independent, and I can't stand it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
On Jan 3, 2009, at 8:19 PM, Rick Archer wrote: Gosh, Rick, these enlightened beings look just like everyone else--imagine that! I guess they must keep their haloes hidden so as not to scare off the ignorant masses, and trot them out only for their friends. How thoughtful of them. As it turns out, no one is there at your graduation – no witnesses – so others, if you want to convince them, can only be convinced verbally. Your behavior may, and hopefully does, give them an indication, but no proof. I'm sure my behavior gives lots of indications-- but of what, I'd just as soon not know. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com wrote: On Jan 3, 2009, at 8:19 PM, Rick Archer wrote: Gosh, Rick, these enlightened beings look just like everyone else--imagine that! I guess they must keep their haloes hidden so as not to scare off the ignorant masses, and trot them out only for their friends. How thoughtful of them. As it turns out, no one is there at your graduation – no witnesses – so others, if you want to convince them, can only be convinced verbally. Your behavior may, and hopefully does, give them an indication, but no proof. I'm sure my behavior gives lots of indications-- but of what, I'd just as soon not know. Sal To give y'all hope, we have a verified saint in Austin, TX (where else but where God has Her vacation home?). I've met the saint on a number of occasions. Here He is on Youtube giving darshan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8atlMK8uqCU
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
Who would have thunk it? Willie N. Sat guru!!! --- On Sat, 1/3/09, I am the eternal l.shad...@gmail.com wrote: From: I am the eternal l.shad...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 9:40 PM On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com wrote: On Jan 3, 2009, at 8:19 PM, Rick Archer wrote: Gosh, Rick, these enlightened beings look just like everyone else--imagine that! I guess they must keep their haloes hidden so as not to scare off the ignorant masses, and trot them out only for their friends. How thoughtful of them. As it turns out, no one is there at your graduation – no witnesses – so others, if you want to convince them, can only be convinced verbally. Your behavior may, and hopefully does, give them an indication, but no proof. I'm sure my behavior gives lots of indications-- but of what, I'd just as soon not know. Sal To give y'all hope, we have a verified saint in Austin, TX (where else but where God has Her vacation home?). I've met the saint on a number of occasions. Here He is on Youtube giving darshan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8atlMK8uqCU
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
--- On Sat, 1/3/09, Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com wrote: From: Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 9:19 PM From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sal Sunshine Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 11:36 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions On Jan 3, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Rick Archer wrote: 2) The Robin Carlsen legacy - the best-known example of someone in the TMO claiming Enlightenment was an egotistical nutcase, so anyone who claims it now is suspect, is likely to have his dome badge revoked, be ostracized by his friends, etc. That's one reason those who claim Awakening tend to be independent-minded people, not caring about having a dome badge, willing find new friends, etc. And many of these don't claim it publically. Even close friends and business partners may not suspect. Gosh, Rick, these enlightened beings look just like everyone else--imagine that! I guess they must keep their haloes hidden so as not to scare off the ignorant masses, and trot them out only for their friends. How thoughtful of them. As it turns out, no one is there at your graduation – no witnesses – so others, if you want to convince them, can only be convinced verbally. Your behavior may, and hopefully does, give them an indication, but no proof. Usually when someone gets enlightened they say, What? Oh, shit, uhh? Oh my God, what the fuck! Holy shit! O my God! Scatological realization, baby!
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of authfriend Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 11:39 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual Distractions --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: snip I could not help but notice at the time that I walked away from TM that NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON HAD EVER BEEN CERTIFIED BY THE TMO AS ENLIGHTENED. NOT ONE. guffaw I could not help but notice... Moi, I started TM in 1975 and never heard any promise of enlightenment in five to eight years. My initiator did mention a five-year period in response to a question during three days' checking, but the way he told it, five years was the *fastest* one could expect to get enlightened. He made it very clear that it was highly individual and could take a lot longer. I know quite a few who have gotten enlightened (I don't like the terminology). Maybe it's just because I don't hang around with many true-blue Ru's, but most of the people I'm referring to, although appreciative of the contribution MMY and TM have made to their lives, are in a fairly distant orbit from the movement. In some cases, it appears to me that their awakening occurred shortly after they distanced themselves from the movement and thus broke free of habitual belief patterns. Or maybe they distanced themselves because they were awakening (graduating) and those belief patterns were beginning to unravel. Hard to tell which is the cart and which the horse. The TMO/MUM is an incubator. Once you've hatched, you're probably going to want to expand your territory and not stay in the incubator.
