Re: [FairfieldLife] Speaking of puja
On 01/22/2013 03:22 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: I am wondering what the deal is on puja anyway. This is what good old Tom Ball, Re-certified Governor of North Carolina says on his blog and website about TM: But doesn't the Transcendental Meditation instruction ceremony involve offerings? The TM instruction ceremony derives from and retains many elements of the traditional Vedic custom of guest reception: offering a bath, fresh garments, food, etc. — all done symbolically during puja as gestures of respect. The puja used in TM instruction recites the names of the tradition of teachers and honors them, most prominently acknowledging the latest representative of that tradition, Maharishi's teacher, Brahmananda Saraswati, or Guru Dev (great teacher). There is no offering to gods or any such thing. It's more like giving an apple to your teacher — very simple and natural. I heard that the TM instruction ceremony mentions names of gods? The secular-type puja performed during Transcendental Meditation instruction uses the traditional Sanskrit language of honor and respect that's indigenous to the ancient Vedic culture. Although it may sound foreign to Western ears, the formal language is used ceremoniously and not religiously. For example, in this Vedic performance, when Maharishi's teacher, Brahmananda Sarasvati, is metaphorically compared to a traditional deity of that culture, Brahma, the deity itself is not appealed to or acknowledged one way or another. If you say someone is Christ-like, it's a way of expressing high adoration and appreciation. It doesn't mean that you are engaged in worship or even believe in Christ. There are others like former TM teacher Bob Fickes who say the puja ceremony helps to refine the awareness of the initiator and gives the mantra its potency. He has said without the puja the mantra won't have the proper vibration or potency. Still others, specifically Raja Badgett Rogers has said that the mantra doesn't work unless there is the offering or dakshina of the fruit, flowers and money, and it is the offering, the gift, that makes the mantra work and of course the flowers and fruit are part of the puja. So to all you TM teachers or former TM teachers, what is the puja actually for of the above possibilities or is it something different altogether? Or a combo of the above? All the puja does is charge up the initiator with enough shakti to make the mantra enlivened. One could probably recite any number of Sanskrit mantras to achieve that. In other traditions it is not necessary because the guru won't allow you to teach meditation until you have achieved enough shakti in your daily life to charge the mantra and precede giving it with shaktipat. The puja is like jump starting a dead battery.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Speaking of puja
so what would be the effect of a teacher giving the mantra without the puja and what do you think of Raja Roger's statement that mantra doesn't work without dakshina? From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Speaking of puja On 01/22/2013 03:22 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: I am wondering what the deal is on puja anyway. This is what good old Tom Ball, Re-certified Governor of North Carolina says on his blog and website about TM: But doesn't the Transcendental Meditation instruction ceremony involve offerings? The TM instruction ceremony derives from and retains many elements of the traditional Vedic custom of guest reception: offering a bath, fresh garments, food, etc. — all done symbolically during puja as gestures of respect. The puja used in TM instruction recites the names of the tradition of teachers and honors them, most prominently acknowledging the latest representative of that tradition, Maharishi's teacher, Brahmananda Saraswati, or Guru Dev (great teacher). There is no offering to gods or any such thing. It's more like giving an apple to your teacher — very simple and natural. I heard that the TM instruction ceremony mentions names of gods? The secular-type puja performed during Transcendental Meditation instruction uses the traditional Sanskrit language of honor and respect that's indigenous to the ancient Vedic culture. Although it may sound foreign to Western ears, the formal language is used ceremoniously and not religiously. For example, in this Vedic performance, when Maharishi's teacher, Brahmananda Sarasvati, is metaphorically compared to a traditional deity of that culture, Brahma, the deity itself is not appealed to or acknowledged one way or another. If you say someone is Christ-like, it's a way of expressing high adoration and appreciation. It doesn't mean that you are engaged in worship or even believe in Christ. There are others like former TM teacher Bob Fickes who say the puja ceremony helps to refine the awareness of the initiator and gives the mantra its potency. He has said without the puja the mantra won't have the proper vibration or potency. Still others, specifically Raja Badgett Rogers has said that the mantra doesn't work unless there is the offering or dakshina of the fruit, flowers and money, and it is the offering, the gift, that makes the mantra work and of course the flowers and fruit are part of the puja. So to all you TM teachers or former TM teachers, what is the puja actually for of the above possibilities or is it something different altogether? Or a combo of the above? All the puja does is charge up the initiator with enough shakti to make the mantra enlivened. One could probably recite any number of Sanskrit mantras to achieve that. In other traditions it is not necessary because the guru won't allow you to teach meditation until you have achieved enough shakti in your daily life to charge the mantra and precede giving it with shaktipat. The puja is like jump starting a dead battery.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Speaking of puja
I answered about the effect of the mantra without giving a puja in my response to Turq. It would really depend on the teacher. Some may be so charged up every day that it wouldn't matter. In my tantric tradition we don't perform a puja before teaching meditation to someone. But we do give shaktipat to the person before giving them the mantra. The puja is just a device. And you do know there are many kinds of pujas? Raja Roger's statement is BS. That's just part of some Hindu belief system. Offerings are just ceremonial and have nothing to do with charging the mantra. On 01/23/2013 09:31 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: so what would be the effect of a teacher giving the mantra without the puja and what do you think of Raja Roger's statement that mantra doesn't work without dakshina? From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Speaking of puja On 01/22/2013 03:22 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: I am wondering what the deal is on puja anyway. This is what good old Tom Ball, Re-certified Governor of North Carolina says on his blog and website about TM: But doesn't the Transcendental Meditation instruction ceremony involve offerings? The TM instruction ceremony derives from and retains many elements of the traditional Vedic custom of guest reception: offering a bath, fresh garments, food, etc. — all done symbolically during puja as gestures of respect. The puja used in TM instruction recites the names of the tradition of teachers and honors them, most prominently acknowledging the latest representative of that tradition, Maharishi's teacher, Brahmananda Saraswati, or Guru Dev (great teacher). There is no offering to gods or any such thing. It's more like giving an apple to your teacher — very simple and natural. I heard that the TM instruction ceremony mentions names of gods? The secular-type puja performed during Transcendental Meditation instruction uses the traditional Sanskrit language of honor and respect that's indigenous to the ancient Vedic culture. Although it may sound foreign to Western ears, the formal language is used ceremoniously and not religiously. For example, in this Vedic performance, when Maharishi's teacher, Brahmananda Sarasvati, is metaphorically compared to a traditional deity of that culture, Brahma, the deity itself is not appealed to or acknowledged one way or another. If you say someone is Christ-like, it's a way of expressing high adoration and appreciation. It doesn't mean that you are engaged in worship or even believe in Christ. There are others like former TM teacher Bob Fickes who say the puja ceremony helps to refine the awareness of the initiator and gives the mantra its potency. He has said without the puja the mantra won't have the proper vibration or potency. Still others, specifically Raja Badgett Rogers has said that the mantra doesn't work unless there is the offering or dakshina of the fruit, flowers and money, and it is the offering, the gift, that makes the mantra work and of course the flowers and fruit are part of the puja. So to all you TM teachers or former TM teachers, what is the puja actually for of the above possibilities or is it something different altogether? Or a combo of the above? All the puja does is charge up the initiator with enough shakti to make the mantra enlivened. One could probably recite any number of Sanskrit mantras to achieve that. In other traditions it is not necessary because the guru won't allow you to teach meditation until you have achieved enough shakti in your daily life to charge the mantra and precede giving it with shaktipat. The puja is like jump starting a dead battery.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Speaking of puja
Thanks for this Bhairitu - I was vaguely aware that puja is a ceremony that is done for a lot of different reasons in India - when I first started TM I thought it was just from Maha and for the TM mantra giving - I was mighty surprised when I went into an Indian gift shop somewhere and they had all kinds of brass ware and some gold stuff and various puja items! I sort of figured the Raja Rogers thing about dakshina was a mental exercise to justify the course fee. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Speaking of puja I answered about the effect of the mantra without giving a puja in my response to Turq. It would really depend on the teacher. Some may be so charged up every day that it wouldn't matter. In my tantric tradition we don't perform a puja before teaching meditation to someone. But we do give shaktipat to the person before giving them the mantra. The puja is just a device. And you do know there are many kinds of pujas? Raja Roger's statement is BS. That's just part of some Hindu belief system. Offerings are just ceremonial and have nothing to do with charging the mantra. On 01/23/2013 09:31 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: so what would be the effect of a teacher giving the mantra without the puja and what do you think of Raja Roger's statement that mantra doesn't work without dakshina? From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Speaking of puja On 01/22/2013 03:22 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: I am wondering what the deal is on puja anyway. This is what good old Tom Ball, Re-certified Governor of North Carolina says on his blog and website about TM: But doesn't the Transcendental Meditation instruction ceremony involve offerings? The TM instruction ceremony derives from and retains many elements of the traditional Vedic custom of guest reception: offering a bath, fresh garments, food, etc. — all done symbolically during puja as gestures of respect. The puja used in TM instruction recites the names of the tradition of teachers and honors them, most prominently acknowledging the latest representative of that tradition, Maharishi's teacher, Brahmananda Saraswati, or Guru Dev (great teacher). There is no offering to gods or any such thing. It's more like giving an apple to your teacher — very simple and natural. I heard that the TM instruction ceremony mentions names of gods? The secular-type puja performed during Transcendental Meditation instruction uses the traditional Sanskrit language of honor and respect that's indigenous to the ancient Vedic culture. Although it may sound foreign to Western ears, the formal language is used ceremoniously and not religiously. For example, in this Vedic performance, when Maharishi's teacher, Brahmananda Sarasvati, is metaphorically compared to a traditional deity of that culture, Brahma, the deity itself is not appealed to or acknowledged one way or another. If you say someone is Christ-like, it's a way of expressing high adoration and appreciation. It doesn't mean that you are engaged in worship or even believe in Christ. There are others like former TM teacher Bob Fickes who say the puja ceremony helps to refine the awareness of the initiator and gives the mantra its potency. He has said without the puja the mantra won't have the proper vibration or potency. Still others, specifically Raja Badgett Rogers has said that the mantra doesn't work unless there is the offering or dakshina of the fruit, flowers and money, and it is the offering, the gift, that makes the mantra work and of course the flowers and fruit are part of the puja. So to all you TM teachers or former TM teachers, what is the puja actually for of the above possibilities or is it something different altogether? Or a combo of the above? All the puja does is charge up the initiator with enough shakti to make the mantra enlivened. One could probably recite any number of Sanskrit mantras to achieve that. In other traditions it is not necessary because the guru won't allow you to teach meditation until you have achieved enough shakti in your daily life to charge the mantra and precede giving it with shaktipat. The puja is like jump starting a dead battery.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Speaking of puja
The term puja means worship. Many Indians will refer to daily meditation as puja. There is or was a puja shop here in the Bay Area in Fremont. I even knew the owner. She had all kinds of supplies and books for puja ceremonies. The TM initiation puja is cobbled together from several traditional pujas and some custom ones. Some pujas are very long and can go on for as much as an hour. Those are considered for the general public and not for yogis. People who practice yoga or meditation are considered yogis. Indians infer all kinds of things to a puja but the effect is just physics. Mantras a resonance patterns and just like a piece of music will work on you when hearing it so will when thought internally and the same paradigm is at work with mantras. Continually repeating rewires the nervous system to support enlightenment or give one certain powers. These powers or siddhis also work from the realm of physics. Nothing magical about them. The problem has been that too many TM'ers haven't learned much outside of the movement which very much limits an understanding of these things. However, I did know people very true to the TMO who regardless still attended astrology symposiums and discussed other paths with teachers from those paths. It's easy to keep TM in it's package because there isn't much there to keep in a package. And it is also interesting to find similarities and differences from other traditions. On 01/23/2013 10:39 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: Thanks for this Bhairitu - I was vaguely aware that puja is a ceremony that is done for a lot of different reasons in India - when I first started TM I thought it was just from Maha and for the TM mantra giving - I was mighty surprised when I went into an Indian gift shop somewhere and they had all kinds of brass ware and some gold stuff and various puja items! I sort of figured the Raja Rogers thing about dakshina was a mental exercise to justify the course fee. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Speaking of puja I answered about the effect of the mantra without giving a puja in my response to Turq. It would really depend on the teacher. Some may be so charged up every day that it wouldn't matter. In my tantric tradition we don't perform a puja before teaching meditation to someone. But we do give shaktipat to the person before giving them the mantra. The puja is just a device. And you do know there are many kinds of pujas? Raja Roger's statement is BS. That's just part of some Hindu belief system. Offerings are just ceremonial and have nothing to do with charging the mantra. On 01/23/2013 09:31 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: so what would be the effect of a teacher giving the mantra without the puja and what do you think of Raja Roger's statement that mantra doesn't work without dakshina? From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Speaking of puja On 01/22/2013 03:22 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: I am wondering what the deal is on puja anyway. This is what good old Tom Ball, Re-certified Governor of North Carolina says on his blog and website about TM: But doesn't the Transcendental Meditation instruction ceremony involve offerings? The TM instruction ceremony derives from and retains many elements of the traditional Vedic custom of guest reception: offering a bath, fresh garments, food, etc. — all done symbolically during puja as gestures of respect. The puja used in TM instruction recites the names of the tradition of teachers and honors them, most prominently acknowledging the latest representative of that tradition, Maharishi's teacher, Brahmananda Saraswati, or Guru Dev (great teacher). There is no offering to gods or any such thing. It's more like giving an apple to your teacher — very simple and natural. I heard that the TM instruction ceremony mentions names of gods? The secular-type puja performed during Transcendental Meditation instruction uses the traditional Sanskrit language of honor and respect that's indigenous to the ancient Vedic culture. Although it may sound foreign to Western ears, the formal language is used ceremoniously and not religiously. For example, in this Vedic performance, when Maharishi's teacher, Brahmananda Sarasvati, is metaphorically compared to a traditional deity of that culture, Brahma, the deity itself is not appealed to or acknowledged one way or another. If you say someone is Christ-like, it's a way of expressing high adoration and appreciation. It doesn't mean that you are engaged in worship or even believe in Christ. There are others like former TM teacher Bob Fickes who say the puja ceremony
