Re: installing 64-bit kernel on a 32-bit system (nouveau issue?)
On Sun, Jan 03, 2010 at 03:47:19PM +, David Woodhouse wrote: Obviously that doesn't count for the nVidia binary module, which doesn't exist for ppc64. And nouveau is relatively new and not currently being used in Fedora/PPC64 so I'm prepared to believe that their 'work in progress' API still has some issues in that area, as you suggest. Nouveau works fine with Fedora 12 for ppc64. I use it on an iMac G5 with an nVidia card for basic 2d output. I believe it also worked in F11. josh -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: installing 64-bit kernel on a 32-bit system (nouveau issue?)
(warning: added cross posting to fedora-devel) Ramesh.R wrote: You can use 32 bit OS in 64 bit processor. 32 bit address bus will use 64 bit. MSB 32 bits will be idle.. But for the case, 64 bit OS in a 32 bit processor is not possible by theory. No one is talking about that. You are not the only one in this thread to have misunderstood. Suppose you have a 64 bit processor. You can run: (a) 64 bit kernel + 64 bit apps: that would be a pure 64 bit system (b) 64 bit kernel + 64 bit and 32 bit apps: that would be a multilib system, where you keep some 32 apps for some reasons A normal Fedora installation will give you case (a) or (b). Now, consider this: (c) 64 bit kernel + 32 bit apps: this is simply an extreme case of (b), a 64/32 system where every app is 32. Case (c) is interesting because: - you can switch a 32 bit install to this mode by simply installing a 64 bit kernel (and switch back at grub level any time you want) - the 64 bit kernel can handle all your memory better (faster) than 32 or 32+PAE kernel - you avoid the increased memory consumption of 64 bit apps (pointers are wider; there is big debate how much this impacts performance and if it is able to demolish the other improvements of x86_64 such as more regusters and SSE2 guaranteed avalability). Add to this that when you run 32 and 64 bit apps together you have both versions of the system libraries in memory, so the mem usage is higher. Finally, the discussion is: case (c) _SHOULD_ work perfectly in theory (see case (b)), but apparently there are a couple of bad spots for things no one ever run in 32 bit mode on 64 bit kernel. The first one I heard is the Nvidia closed source driver (ok, we already know closed source = unfixable problems), but this thread seems to suggest that nouveau has a similar issue. My suspicion is that it is just an untested area and a fix could be done easily. In any case, it looks like a show stopper for nvidia users. Best regards. -- Roberto Ragusamail at robertoragusa.it -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Re: installing 64-bit kernel on a 32-bit system (nouveau issue?)
(warning: added cross posting to fedora-devel) Ramesh.R wrote: You can use 32 bit OS in 64 bit processor. 32 bit address bus will use 64 bit. MSB 32 bits will be idle.. But for the case, 64 bit OS in a 32 bit processor is not possible by theory. No one is talking about that. You are not the only one in this thread to have misunderstood. Suppose you have a 64 bit processor. You can run: (a) 64 bit kernel + 64 bit apps: that would be a pure 64 bit system (b) 64 bit kernel + 64 bit and 32 bit apps: that would be a multilib system, where you keep some 32 apps for some reasons A normal Fedora installation will give you case (a) or (b). Now, consider this: (c) 64 bit kernel + 32 bit apps: this is simply an extreme case of (b), a 64/32 system where every app is 32. Case (c) is interesting because: - you can switch a 32 bit install to this mode by simply installing a 64 bit kernel (and switch back at grub level any time you want) - the 64 bit kernel can handle all your memory better (faster) than 32 or 32+PAE kernel - you avoid the increased memory consumption of 64 bit apps (pointers are wider; there is big debate how much this impacts performance and if it is able to demolish the other improvements of x86_64 such as more regusters and SSE2 guaranteed avalability). Add to this that when you run 32 and 64 bit apps together you have both versions of the system libraries in memory, so the mem usage is higher. Finally, the discussion is: case (c) _SHOULD_ work perfectly in theory (see case (b)), but apparently there are a couple of bad spots for things no one ever run in 32 bit mode on 64 bit kernel. The first one I heard is the Nvidia closed source driver (ok, we already know closed source = unfixable problems), but this thread seems to suggest that nouveau has a similar issue. My suspicion is that it is just an untested area and a fix could be done easily. In any case, it looks like a show stopper for nvidia users. Best regards. -- Roberto Ragusamail at robertoragusa.it -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: installing 64-bit kernel on a 32-bit system
slamp slamp slack...@gmail.com writes: Has anyone does this in Fedora 12? I don't want to re-install the whole system. I don't even think this is possible, and even if it is, my suspicion is you're asking for a lot of trouble. Just make a copy of your installed packages (rpm -qa), your home directories, then do a fresh install of F12, update, edit the package list to be a script of yum installs and run it, and copy your home directories back over. -- Randy Yates % I met someone who looks alot like you, Digital Signal Labs % she does the things you do, mailto://ya...@ieee.org % but she is an IBM. http://www.digitalsignallabs.com %'Yours Truly, 2095', *Time*, ELO -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: installing 64-bit kernel on a 32-bit system
On 01/01/2010 06:24 AM, slamp slamp wrote: Has anyone does this in Fedora 12? I don't want to re-install the whole system. Just for fun, on F11 32-bit system (not tried on F12), I downloaded the latest F11 64-bit kernel package and installed it with rpm --nodeps --ignorearch --force kernel package name It installed OK, since the kernel is pretty isolated from the rest of the system software. Booted into runlevel 3, and it worked fine. Now, X won't start because it needs the 64-bit nouveau driver. I don't know, but I suspect that you will need to install the entire 64-bit X server package(s). This will force you to install at least the 64-bit libc package. If you just want a 64-bit server without X, this would work fine. Otherwise I imagine you will get caught in package dependency hell and I'm too lazy this morning to follow it to the bitter end. Regards, John -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: installing 64-bit kernel on a 32-bit system
*I think depends on your cpu type. What is your CPU? Intel Core 2 Duo** *--- Best Wishes, Waleed Harbi --- Try not to become a man of success but rather try to become a man of value. On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 5:24 PM, slamp slamp slack...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone does this in Fedora 12? I don't want to re-install the whole system. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: installing 64-bit kernel on a 32-bit system
--- On Fri, 1/1/10, slamp slamp slack...@gmail.com wrote: Has anyone does this in Fedora 12? I don't want to re-install the whole system. What did you do anyway? If you installed 64-bit F12 on a 32-bit system, it's not going to run even if you do install the 64-bit kernel. Everything is 64-bit, kernel, apps, utilities, etc. On a 32-bit system, everything has to be 32-bit. If that's the case, you're going to have to reinstall. Now, you can run the 32-bit distro on a 64-bit system, and on a 64-bit install on 64-bit hardware run 32-bit apps concurrently with 64-bit ones, but not the other way around. B -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: installing 64-bit kernel on a 32-bit system
john wendel wrote: Just for fun, on F11 32-bit system (not tried on F12), I downloaded the latest F11 64-bit kernel package and installed it with rpm --nodeps --ignorearch --force kernel package name It installed OK, since the kernel is pretty isolated from the rest of the system software. Booted into runlevel 3, and it worked fine. Now, X won't start because it needs the 64-bit nouveau driver. I don't know, but I suspect that you will need to install the entire 64-bit X server package(s). This will force you to install at least the 64-bit libc package. Interesting. A similar problem had been described for the Nvidia closed driver; same thing with noveau? not a good thing: the kernel-X interface is expected to be cleaner in the open source driver... -- Roberto Ragusamail at robertoragusa.it -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: installing 64-bit kernel on a 32-bit system
You can use 32 bit OS in 64 bit processor. 32 bit address bus will use 64 bit. MSB 32 bits will be idle.. But for the case, 64 bit OS in a 32 bit processor is not possible by theory. I did not think that it will work. Also i did not tried this. Any one tried this combination and working fine? Thanks. Best Regards, Ramesh Ramasamy. On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Roberto Ragusa m...@robertoragusa.itwrote: john wendel wrote: Just for fun, on F11 32-bit system (not tried on F12), I downloaded the latest F11 64-bit kernel package and installed it with rpm --nodeps --ignorearch --force kernel package name It installed OK, since the kernel is pretty isolated from the rest of the system software. Booted into runlevel 3, and it worked fine. Now, X won't start because it needs the 64-bit nouveau driver. I don't know, but I suspect that you will need to install the entire 64-bit X server package(s). This will force you to install at least the 64-bit libc package. Interesting. A similar problem had been described for the Nvidia closed driver; same thing with noveau? not a good thing: the kernel-X interface is expected to be cleaner in the open source driver... -- Roberto Ragusamail at robertoragusa.it -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
