Re: Recent losses

[Jamie Laws]

Nina,

Funny you should say that. I don't know if I have mentioned it since re-joining the List, but one of my dogs IS a Great Dane. And he turned 3 last month. They have actually upped the lifespan average to 7-10 years IF they are well cared for. This is true of all the giant breeds- they have shorter life spans. Anyway, the vet told me that the bigger they are, the shorter they should be expected to live. Odd how breeding for size (backyard breeding anyway) is what people want- I want the BIGGEST Dane on the block is the mindset. Well, I want the healthiest. So I am GLAD that Apollo is small for a GD. He is 120 pounds and that is the small end for a female! He "should be" 160-180 but I guess he was the runt. He did come from the shelter where I was volunteering. A 7 week old pure bred Great Dane puppy doesn't come in the door often and when he did I grabbed him. So, anyway, I thought your analogy was very
 ironic. And very true. I will use that the next time a vet suggests that you should PTS a Felv+ cat just because they are Felv+. 

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Re: Recent Losses

[Jamie Laws]

I'm sorry! I think Kerry was just responding to my post which did not include Lisa. I am trying to keep track of everything but again, the digest mode makes it more of a process. At least for me. It is just really sad that there are SO MANY losses that I could actually miss one. So Lisa, I am very sorry. I did not mean to exclude you and I do offer you my heartfelt sympathies on your loss as well.

As to the ashes thing. I never walked in there with any hope really. Not in my situation. My fear is that since this was my first experience at this vet, I will have a negative connotation with it even though I really like them. I think I am dreading the sorrowful "looks" and maybe you're right. I am being weird about getting him before work and leaving him in my car all day. Ok, I know he isn't going to be "hurt" sitting out there since it isn't really him anymore but still. And I'm afraid I will get all upset and then go into work, again, crying! But on the other hand I do want to get him home, like Tonya said. This is where he belongs.

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Re: Jamie

[Jamie Laws]

I know they will be ok. Her message did say that they were there, but it was no rush and just to come in when I am ready. After all that they witnessed, I know that they know I will NOT be one of those owners who doesn't show up! I will probably go get them on Monday if they are open. For some odd reason, it made me feel better that Abe said "isn't Andy supposed to be back at the vet this week?" instead of "the ashes." Maybe that's why it is comforting to have the ashes back- because in a way it IS them. So I like that he is referring to Andy in the present tense. Strange? Probably. I don't deal with death very well... almost to the point that I think I am unhealthy about it. So I am probably an oddball on what I find comforting. Ookkk. That's all I can talk about it for one night! 
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Recent losses

[Jamie Laws]

I am trying to step out of my own grief and offer condolences to others who have had losses. Michelle and Marlene,I think we have just had a rough week. Michelle lost both Fern and Pepsi on Sunday, I lost Andy on Monday, and Marlene lost Digby on Tuesday.I just got the call today from the vet that Andy's ashes are back and I can pick him up when I am ready. But I just couldn't do it today. I may go in the morning. I don't know why I am dreading that part so much. 

Anyway, I just wanted to tell you both how very sorry I am for your incredible losses. I can empathize withyou and my heart aches with yours.

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what they do

[Jamie Laws]

I just read Lisa's post about little Akira and was struck by something she said. The part about what they teach us. The "why me, why this cat" will drive you insane. I mean you just love them so much and they are so special that you have to wonder WHY? Well I think I know. 

Perhaps I am biased, but I can tell you there was something about Andy. I mean I love my other 2 cats, but Andy had the "It" factor. People were drawn to him. People who don't like cats liked him. He was so handsome and so sweet and so... well, cool. So why do I think he was stricken with Felv? Because he is unforgettable. He makes an impression on anyone who meets him. When I moved to Georgia 3 months after he was diagnosed, I went to the first vet in the phone book- Accute Care Veterinary Clinic- because he was so sick and I knew no one in that town. There, Dr. Brucker, like may vets, was telling me it was hopeless. Unbeknown to me, Andy was in his hemobartinella bout at that point but the vet heard me say "felv" and all desire to treat that cat flew out the window on his part. So I took him home to die at that point. This was 6 YEARS ago and he just died yesterday. So I get on the List and email
 like mad. Then Pam, Rissa-Tai's mom, posts and said "MAKE that man test for hemobartinella!" I had no clue what that even was.Pam did b/c Rissa had suffered through it.Back we go to the vet and Dr. B tells me he doesn't want me to "waste" $50 on that test, especially when they can have it and it won't show on the test anyway. But at Pam's insistence, I insisted. That is what Rissa-Tai did. She saved Andy. And many others I'm sure, but here is an instance where I can directly link a life saved because of HER bravery and suffering. So we did the test and it was positive! He sent me home with some Doxycycline and said "don't expect miracles." That cat's RBCs shot up and he was running around and playing again almost overnight. The vet was stunned. So for 2 years we had an understanding that he would never count Andy out like that again and we were TREATING him for
 LIFE not managing him for death. At the end of the 2 years I came into the clinic and said I needed my records copied since my husband was out of the Army and we were moving back to Texas. Dr. Brucker looked like I punched him in the gut. Then proceeded to tell me how much he learned from me and Andy and how he would forever change the way he approached the treatment of Felv+ cats. So there is one thing Andy did. How many cats were saved because this vet changed his attitude about Felv? And just now at this new vet, Dr. Baxter was stunned at how long he lived and really picked my brain about what I had done for Andy all these years. So I told him about the List, and stress management, Interferon, the various supplements, etc. He was familiar with most of it, but now had reason to SUGGEST IT TO FUTURE PATIENTS! He said they succumb to it anyway, and I said but look how much time you can get with them if you treat it. Just
 thing about HIV+ people. They will eventually die from AIDS but you don't know when and the better they are taken care of the longer their life will be. So I think Andy made an impact there too.

Of course I have to mention James' cat Vyvyan whose battle with Felv inspired him to create this website and this wonderful place for us to come together and share, learn, laugh and cry together. Many thanks to James and Vyvyan for that. 

They come into our lives for a fleeting moment and touch us so deeply. But like all of us, their purpose is much greater than to bring the joy and love and fulfillment that they do end up bringing to our lives. That is just a fabulous, beautiful byproduct. So Andy, Vyvyan, Akira, Rissa-Tai and all of your wonderful babies served a much greater good. For me, I am clinging to what I know in my soul to be true. That wonderful creature came into my life and changed me at my core. I became heavily involved in animal rescue because of him on top of everything else. I would have never done that if it was not for Andy. They say you cannot know true joy without knowing true sorrow. I believe that, and I now know that I have experienced true sorrow through the loss of Andy. The selfish side of me wants him here, whole and healthy. I don't want him to begone, yethelpful to others. I won't deny that. I
 want him back so much. But he did what he was sent to do and he is gone now. Before we went back to the vet yesterday afternoon, I explained toAndy about the Rainbow Bridge and that he would be there in a few minutes so just hang on for me. And soon, but hopefully not TOO soon, I will come pick him up from there and we will go on to Heaven. So that is where we stand now and I just hope God will grant me the gift of relief from this unbearable pain.

Thanks once again to everyone for your kind words, emails and support through this.

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Andy is gone

[Jamie Laws]

Thanks to all of you who took the time to respond about Andy. I do appreciate it. Barb, Sharon, Yvonne, Terrie, Belinda and anyone else I may have missed- it was good to hear from you again. To the others- it was good to "meet" you for the first time.

I did take him to the vet first thing this morning. Dr. Caldwell was in surgery so I saw Dr. Baxter instead. Also a very nice man. Every person in that place has just been wonderful! He looked at Andy's chart and said he hoped I didn't think of them as "bad" since my very first experience there has been this ordeal with my baby boy. 

Anyway, he was very straight forward and said while he wanted to commend me on an outstanding job taking care of a Felv+ cat for this long, that there was not much he could do and that this was the beginning of the end. Whatever was going on had his insides in shreds. The vet said even if I WANTED him to run tests, he was 99% sure that Andy would not come out of the sedation in that state. Barb- it was so strange. He held up Andy's face so we were eye to eye and said "Mrs. Laws, tell me, do you really see Andy there anymore?" And the answer was no. So I started bawling and babbling about how I didn't warn my husband that this was a possibility this morning and he just went to work without saying goodbye. I mean I was a crying freak and I just met the man! So he gave me a small TOWEL and said I was not having a "Kleenex cry" so to take a towel. Then he told me we were not making the call right now, and not like that. He
 gave him a bag of fluids and a shot of Prednisone and told me to talk to my husband first. I went back to work, then came and got Andy at lunch. I took him home and spent the afternoon with him. He pooped blood all over himself TWICE. The second time I was washing him off in the sink and he had one of his episodes (Dr. Baxter said these were probably small strokes rather than seizures). But this time it lasted a long, long time. He quit breathing and went limp in my arms. No noise, no chest movement. He was gone. So I laid him on the floor on the towel and my phone rang,it was my husband. So I was hysterical telling him Andy just died in my arms and I was freaking out. Right then, Andy let out this gaspy, panting type breath and started convulsing. Then he just kind of sat up alittle bit like nothing happened! But he was dead I tell you. So then I really freaked out and said "he's not
 dead!" I mean screaming it. So Abe (husband) asked whatfreeway the newvet was off of since he was on his way home. I told himwhereit was and hejust said "I am meeting you there right now." So I knew. I was not going to keep him through the night to spend a little more time together. That was it. He was suffering and I was thinking ofwhat I needed to be okay and not Andy. I wrappedhim in a towel and drove to the vet. I called first and again, just crying into the phone I managed to get out "I had my cat in there this morning and..." that's all I could get out. The poor girl who answered said "I'm so sorry Jamie, wewill see you in a minute." She knew my name and I hadn't even mentioned the cat's name. Guess I was the only bawling woman in with a cattoday. Anyway, I managed to choke out "but you close in 15 minutes." She just
 said "we'll be here."It was so wonderful to be treated with compassion. My old vet would have said "well ER hours start in 15 minutes so just be prepared to pay double." 

Anyway, I met Abe there and Dr. Baxter took us back to the treatment area. Andy laid on the table very still and I petting him and kissed his little face as the vet gave him the injection. I have never witnessedananimal bing PTSin real life. I'm sorry if this is all too graphic but it helps me to get it out. I was surprised that his eyes didn't close and nothing changed. I didn't realize he was gone until the vet said "ok, his heart stopped." Then I lost it.The "never agains"hit me like a ton of bricks. He will never do his cold nose bumping and tiny front teeth nipping on my husband's inner arm trying to get him to pet him. He will never serve as my "fun police" when I want my great dane to stop bringing his toy to me. I would just lay it on the coffee table right next to Andy who was always ready with his right hook. That kept Apollo in check. He would NOT go for that toy if
 Andy was sitting by it. :) I will never again have my soft little lap warmer as I sit at my computer. I will never. There are millions of those and I think that's the worst part.

I guess the bright spot is I think I found a new vet. Their office visits seem really high to me, but they were just so wonderful to me. After it was done, the vet and the tech both said to justgo on out the front since they saw me getting my wallet out to pay.I am gettinghis ashes on Thursday so they said to just take care of it then. I swear, my old vet would have followed me out to the front and told the girls at the front desk "she hasn't paid for the euthanasia yet." He has the bedside 

Re: Andy is gone

[Jamie Laws]

Hi all. Again I apologize while I try and figure out the "digest" mode. I realized I had missed a few posts- since they are numbered I know where to look now. I think I figured it out now but I am feeling a little brain dead at the moment.

Thanks to you all for your words of support. I never thought my messages to people in grief were helpful. I mean, how could they be? I can't make their pet come back and "sorry for your loss" doesn't seem to be quite enough. But now I know from the other end of the stick that it DOES help. 

Miss Mouse and Barney seem okay. Barney sat with Andy this afternoon and kept trying to clean him up. Barney is the self-designated face washer. Cats, dogs, humans, whatever. If you sit still he will wash your face for you. And Andy loved it. So I didn't stop him. The dogs were surprised and suspicious that I allowed them on the couch with me this evening but I did. So it was me, Abe, 2 cats, a Great Dane anda Pitbull/boxer mixall on the couch. Just what I needed. Then the husband and I had 2 big old Rum and Cokes and strolled the yard. We did a huge amount of work this weekend outside and Abe said "well, the rum has numbed the pain in my body but not my heart." So true. I think it's harder for him because he won't let his feelings out. I just do my unabashed bawling without apology. He met me after his National Guard thing so he was at the vet in uniform. No way he'd
 cry. Holding it in is so much harder. Andy was his special guy. At night he always says "but where's Andy?" And will go seek him out to bring him in bed with us. He doesn't do that with any of the others. So I know this is hard for him. He just keeps coming to me and hugging me but I think it's as much for himself as it is for me. 

Well thanks to all of you for everything. I will take your advise. Now it's off for a hot shower and I am getting in bed. I was up until almost 1am just worried sick about Andy so I am exhausted anyway. Maybe I will be able to sleep in peace tonight knowing that he is. Glad y'all are out there. Goodnight.

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Andy...

[Jamie Laws]

unded him internally and because of his suppressed immune system never healed?? Either way, it sounds like it's very uncomfortable for him to eat - if only because he knows he'll barf it up, or it'll end up with an icky bowel movement. And whatever is wrong inside has probably
 messed with his appetite so he doesn't want to eat anyway.Especially with the snapping back to "reality", those do sound like seizures - pretty similar to what Ninja'd had actually. Does he lose control of his bodily functions during the episodes? Does he vocalize? Foam at the mouth? If he's sitting or standing, does he just kind of tip over? How frequently do they happen? Can you tell if there's a specific trigger? Ninja had been on pred to control her seizures and we could not taper the dose and ended up adding in phenobarbital. What dose of pred is he on? I'm wondering if it's neural damage as opposed to a tumor.When you look in his eyes, do you see "Andy" there? Is his personality still the same, with understandable behavior changes due to illness? That's the main thing I used with Ninja - whatever made her "HER" just wasn't there any more - SHE came back the morning the vet came over and we said goodbye, had a wonderful little snuggle and chat, but she'd been ready
 for a couple days and was just waiting.I think more comprehensive blood work would be helpful, but not worth it if he stresses out like that. Try to simply make him comfortable, baby food or whatever and water available if he wants them, but leave him alone for a day or so and look in his eyes again. I'm sorry to say it, but it sounds like he's ready. Please keep us posted and remember you're not alone.Barb and Smoky and Bandit (oh yeah, and Daddy)Jamie Laws <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:Hi there. I was reading the archives and saw some familiar names so maybe some of you remember me. I was subscribed under my old email so "andyandmouse" may sound more familiar. Anyway, my name is Jamie and my Felv positive boy is Andy. I was an active member of the List (and used to administer the emergency fund) from about 1999 to maybe 2003 so I have been gone a while. As is normally the case, it is bad news that brings me back. As a refresher, Andy tested
 positive on Elisa in May 1999 and IFA in April 2000. Other than a quickly treated bout of Hemobartinella in the summer of 1999, he has been symptom free. Until recently.So, I noticed that he was getting gradually thinner about 6 months ago. He was still eating fine and his "potty habits" were normal so I didn't worry too much. But then he started throwing up that foamy white stuff every single day. Never food, just foam. So the vet had me feed him a little bit of canned food (to guarantee he'd eat) first thing in the morning and in the evening. The thought was maybe it was stomach acid. Well it didn't help. Then he started throwing up a little bit of food. Not eating a bunch, then throwing it all back up, but he would vomit up SOME of what he ate a few hours later. So back to the vet we went- about 6 weeks ago. This time it was a new vet at the clinic (bought out the practice- long story!). So he was pretty much telling me it was cancer. Blood work (CBC only) and x-rays
 (abdominal and chest) showed nothing at all. NOTHING. So the woman vet who was there when I picked him up acted like that was a GOOD sign but the man vet told me on thephone it was a BAD sign b/c it didn't rule IN anything else. And of course lymphoma is not 100% detectable without biopsy. At this point, I really don't think Andy is strong enough to be sedated to even HAVE a biopsy! But she put him on Prednisone, which I had my serious doubts about, but tried it. It did seem to help him out, but of course that's what Pred does. Then you pay the piper so to speak for that quick fix. That brings us to right now. He was looking worse and worse so I took him to an entirely new vet practice last Tuesday. She did not want to do more x-rays or blood work on him right now b/c he does need sedation to draw blood and she was afraid to even use the gas on him right now. To put it in perspective, Andy is normally about 12-14 pounds. He is a big cat anyway. On Tuesday he weighed just over 7
 pounds. He is a rack of bones. Ok, I had been giving him baby food at night to fatten him up but ran out on Sunday night. At that time he DID eat on his own.I can't recall actually witnessing him eat after that point. But Tuesday evening he would not eat and would not drink water. This is a cat who sits by my dogs and begs while I cook. My other 2 don't do that. And he eats ANYTHING so it's a big deal to me that he won't eat. He acted interested, like sniffing and stuff, but would not eat. I tried warming up tuna fish, baby food, A/D, milk, kitten replacement milk, cream sauce from dinner the night before. You name it. NADA. So I syringe fed him baby food and water. That did stay down but he didn't put up much of a fight which is odd. Sh

RE: Remember me

[Jamie Laws]

Hi Sharon-

I think remember your ordeal with Franklin. Did he actually have lymphoma? I just don't know what needs to happen to diagnose it... is that what the biopsy would be for? I can't remember exactly because we were talking about IBS when she mentioned it and I think she was saying that's the only way to diagnose IBS, but now that doesn't make sense to me. Guess you can say my mind is shot at this point. 

He has pooped about a teaspoon today of the nasty tar stuff, but I guess when he isn't eating there isn't much to come out. He did go through a very "violent" vomiting episode but it was white foamy stuff and then yellowish. Which I guess is bile since his tummy is pretty much empty. But he did keep down the baby food from this morning and so far about an 1/8 of a cup of replacement milk from a couple of hours ago. 

The vet opens at 8 in the morning and we will be there. I just don't know what to do. I feel so lost in all this. I am thinking I will tell them to keep him there for the day and just watch him. Make him walk and see how wobbly he is. See how he growls when you hold him or touch him other than right on top of his head. Maybe they can witness the puke and pooping too. I say that because after carrying on the way he was, I got him to the vet last Tuesday and he was jumping up and down from the table, weaving in and out of her legs, purring, etc.She just made the comment that he was so skinny but otherwise wasn't "acting" sick. Because of his weight and the symptoms I told her about, she did not want to sedate him or anything. I just want her to SEE him acting like that so I have an actual vet telling me that I need to consider letting him go. For the first time in 6 years he is actually SICK and I have a
 vet who WON'T suggest it? Heck, nearly every vet we have ever been to has been trying to get me to put him down even though he was fat andhealthy! Are you kidding me with this?I do agree- we need to know what exactly is going on with him if we are going to continue like this. I will not take him home just to keep force feeding and popping pills down him trying to treat the "it could be's." The way I see it, we need to sedate him and do the biopsy or run a scope down in his belly or take blood for a more thorough work-up, or all of the above. But we need a diagnosis. Then again, if we have treated forand/or ruled out everything BUT cancer, and it IS cancer, what do I do? Do I put him through chemo? How expensive is that? I have heard it isn't as hard on cats as it is on humans. Is that true? Do they go in a lot for the treatment or what? I am just trying to think through it all and make sure I
 do right by Andy by giving him a fighting chance first, the letting him go if necessary.

Thanks for listening!
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Remember me?

[Jamie Laws]

Hi there. I was reading the archives and saw some familiar names so maybe some of you remember me. I was subscribed under my old email so "andyandmouse" may sound more familiar. Anyway, my name is Jamie and my Felv positive boy is Andy. I was an active member of the List (and used toadminister the emergency fund)from about 1999 to maybe 2003 so I have been gone a while. As is normally the case, it is bad news that brings me back. As a refresher, Andy tested positive on Elisa in May 1999 andIFA in April 2000. Other than a quickly treated bout of Hemobartinella in the summer of 1999, he has been symptom free. Until recently.

So, I noticed that he was getting gradually thinner about 6 months ago. He was still eating fine and his "potty habits" were normal so I didn't worry too much. But then he started throwing up that foamy white stuff every single day. Never food, just foam. So the vet had me feed him a little bit of canned food (to guarantee he'd eat) first thing in the morning and in the evening. The thought was maybe it was stomach acid. Well it didn't help. Then he started throwing up a little bit of food. Not eating a bunch, then throwing it all back up, but he would vomit up SOME of what he ate a few hours later. So back to the vet we went- about 6 weeks ago. This time it was a new vet at the clinic (bought out the practice- long story!). So he was pretty much telling me it was cancer. Blood work (CBC only)and x-rays (abdominal and chest)showed nothing at all. NOTHING. So the woman vet who was
 there when I picked him up acted like that was a GOOD sign but the man vet told me on the phone it was a BAD sign b/c it didn't rule IN anything else. And of course lymphoma is not 100% detectable without biopsy. At this point, I really don't think Andy is strong enough to be sedated to even HAVE a biopsy! But she put him on Prednisone, which I had my serious doubts about, but tried it. It did seem to help him out, but of course that's what Pred does. Then you pay the piper so to speak for that quick fix. That brings us to right now. He was looking worse and worse so I took him to an entirely new vet practice last Tuesday. She did not want to do more x-rays or blood work on him right now b/c he does need sedation to draw blood and she was afraid to even use the gas on him right now. To put it in perspective, Andy is normally about 12-14 pounds. He is a big cat anyway. On Tuesday he weighed just over 7
 pounds. He is a rack of bones. Ok, I had been giving him baby food at night to fatten him up but ran out on Sunday night. At that time he DID eat on hisown. I can't recall actually witnessing him eatafter that point. But Tuesday evening he would not eat and would not drink water. This is a cat who sits by my dogs andbegs while I cook. My other 2 don't do that.And he eats ANYTHING so it's a big deal to me that he won't eat. Heacted interested, like sniffingand stuff, but would not eat. I triedwarming up tuna fish, baby food, A/D, milk, kitten replacement milk, cream sauce from dinner the night before. You name it. NADA. So I syringe fed him baby food and water. That did stay down but he didn't putup much of a fight which is odd. She has him on Metronidazole in the morning and Barium at night. I just syringe that down him to coat his
 stomach. I like her because she said "there is no medical reason why that shouldhelp, but sometimes it does so we'll try it." I mean I like that b/c she is willing to try things that are off the beaten path.We discussed perhaps trying Immunoregulin but she wanted to doone thing at a time. But it's been 5 days and he is no different. He just sits in the closet or under the bed doing that shallow breathing. And he growls at me when I walk in the room now b/c he knows I amgoing to force feed him or medicate him and that KILLS me. On top of that, I think he is having seizures.When he gets real worked up he does this throaty growl and just goes limp. His head flops down and his jaw isclamped shut and allof his limbs go right out in front of him totally stiff. Then he sort of snaps out of it and looks around confused. So I don't know what's up with that. I just keep waiting
 for a sign to let him go. I told my husband today that if it were someone else's cat I would be telling them toput it out of it's misery, but I can't be objective here. I keep thinking I can try just onemore thing. She said the Pred probablyupset the bacteria in his tummy so Iam giving him acidopholus. I also gave him some Pepcid at the vet's instruction. Oh, guess I forgot to mention the tar-like diarrheaand thatas of Friday he pukes up anything I syringe him, except water. SoIhave him ONE dropper of the cat milk replacement stuff, waited a little bit, and give him one more. So far that has stayed down. So I don't know ifit's the baby food being too rich or just that I gave him too much at once. But again, Tuesday-Friday morning he kept down 5syringes in the morning and another 5 at night. Now he can't. 

Any