Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Rostislav Pehlivanov]

On 23 May 2016 at 17:26, Michael Niedermayer  wrote:

> On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 05:28:09PM -0400, Ronald S. Bultje wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 11:32 AM, James Almer  wrote:
> >
> > > On 5/18/2016 3:40 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > > > Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer 
> > > > ---
> > > >  doc/developer.texi |   29 +
> > > >  1 file changed, 29 insertions(+)
> > > >
> > > > diff --git a/doc/developer.texi b/doc/developer.texi
> > > > index 6db93ce..4d3a7ae 100644
> > > > --- a/doc/developer.texi
> > > > +++ b/doc/developer.texi
> > > > @@ -403,6 +403,35 @@ finding a new maintainer and also don't forget
> to
> > > update the @file{MAINTAINERS}
> > > >
> > > >  We think our rules are not too hard. If you have comments, contact
> us.
> > > >
> > > > +@section Code of conduct
> > > > +
> > > > +Be friendly and respectful towards others and third parties.
> > > > +Treat others the way you yourself want to be treated.
> > > > +
> > > > +Be considerate. Not everyone shares the same viewpoint and
> priorities
> > > as you do.
> > > > +Different opinions and interpretations help the project.
> > > > +Looking at issues from a different perspective assists development.
> > > > +
> > > > +Do not assume malice for things that can be attributed to
> incompetence.
> > > Even if
> > > > +it is malice, it's rarely good to start with that as initial
> assumption.
> > > > +
> > > > +Stay friendly even if someone acts contrarily. Everyone has a bad
> day
> > > > +once in a while.
> > > > +If you yourself have a bad day or are angry then try to take a break
> > > and reply
> > > > +once you are calm and without anger if you have to.
> > > > +
> > > > +Try to help other team members and cooperate if you can.
> > > > +
> > > > +The goal of software development is to create technical excellence,
> not
> > > for any
> > > > +individual to be better and "win" against the others. Large software
> > > projects
> > > > +are only possible and successful through teamwork.
> > > > +
> > > > +If someone struggles do not put them down. Give them a helping hand
> > > > +instead and point them in the right direction.
> > > > +
> > > > +Finally, keep in mind the immortal words of Bill and Ted,
> > > > +"Be excellent to each other."
> > > > +
> > > >  @anchor{Submitting patches}
> > > >  @section Submitting patches
> > >
> > > I agree with this. It can and should be improved/extended over time,
> but
> > > it's a good
> > > start.
> >
> >
> > +1.
> >
> > Constructive criticism for next version: I agree with most people that we
> > need a conflict resolution clause in here. We don't need to be as
> specific
> > as VLC in terms of how to punish misconduct, although I think it would be
> > good to have, but at the very least we need to document how it will be
> > managed and who's in charge of managing that. Right now, if people
> violate
> > the CoC, w'll throw our hands in the air and nobody knows what to do
> next...
>
> we first try to politely point it out to people that their tone is
> insulting/disrepectfull or whatever.
> has happened recently, and worked in stoping it
> i would count that as a success
>
> But lets assume someone doesnt stop or keeps restarting
>
> if we really end up needing to, and i hope we wont then in the case
> of the mailinglists, the mailinglist admins could take care of it like
> they do with other unwanted content
>
> ATM the mailinglist admins are lou logan and compn
> The critical factor is of course that they are neutral (no history
> of taking sides in conflicts) which i belive applies to both.
> And that whatever they do, they do it consistently,
> same offense ->  treated similar
> and some attempt is made to do the minimal and effective thing
> for example if talking with people makes them
> stop thats better than baning them for some period ...
>
> And i belive being told by the ML admin to stop and not do something
> again has some weight ...
>
>
I absolutely agree. I think a punishment clause is basically going to cause
far more harm than it will ever do good by giving bad people weapons. I
think we're civilized enough to know when to stop, and if not, the ML
admins will make us stop. But punishing people for going a step over the
line (especially if they realize that a bit too late, because you know,
everyone has bad days) is something I wouldn't want to see. The world of
multimedia is one that is full of disagreement, so discouraging
disagreements because there's always a danger of being accused of a
"misconduct" is going to result in a far worse project since you wouldn't'
be able to remove or add controversial code without offending someone,
getting into an argument and one of the two or both of you being cast out
as "troublemakers".
Chances are if it ever comes to that the majority of developers will agree
that person is being an ass and just take him out of the project by

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Ronald S. Bultje]

Hi,

On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 11:32 AM, James Almer  wrote:

> On 5/18/2016 3:40 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer 
> > ---
> >  doc/developer.texi |   29 +
> >  1 file changed, 29 insertions(+)
> >
> > diff --git a/doc/developer.texi b/doc/developer.texi
> > index 6db93ce..4d3a7ae 100644
> > --- a/doc/developer.texi
> > +++ b/doc/developer.texi
> > @@ -403,6 +403,35 @@ finding a new maintainer and also don't forget to
> update the @file{MAINTAINERS}
> >
> >  We think our rules are not too hard. If you have comments, contact us.
> >
> > +@section Code of conduct
> > +
> > +Be friendly and respectful towards others and third parties.
> > +Treat others the way you yourself want to be treated.
> > +
> > +Be considerate. Not everyone shares the same viewpoint and priorities
> as you do.
> > +Different opinions and interpretations help the project.
> > +Looking at issues from a different perspective assists development.
> > +
> > +Do not assume malice for things that can be attributed to incompetence.
> Even if
> > +it is malice, it's rarely good to start with that as initial assumption.
> > +
> > +Stay friendly even if someone acts contrarily. Everyone has a bad day
> > +once in a while.
> > +If you yourself have a bad day or are angry then try to take a break
> and reply
> > +once you are calm and without anger if you have to.
> > +
> > +Try to help other team members and cooperate if you can.
> > +
> > +The goal of software development is to create technical excellence, not
> for any
> > +individual to be better and "win" against the others. Large software
> projects
> > +are only possible and successful through teamwork.
> > +
> > +If someone struggles do not put them down. Give them a helping hand
> > +instead and point them in the right direction.
> > +
> > +Finally, keep in mind the immortal words of Bill and Ted,
> > +"Be excellent to each other."
> > +
> >  @anchor{Submitting patches}
> >  @section Submitting patches
>
> I agree with this. It can and should be improved/extended over time, but
> it's a good
> start.


+1.

Constructive criticism for next version: I agree with most people that we
need a conflict resolution clause in here. We don't need to be as specific
as VLC in terms of how to punish misconduct, although I think it would be
good to have, but at the very least we need to document how it will be
managed and who's in charge of managing that. Right now, if people violate
the CoC, w'll throw our hands in the air and nobody knows what to do next...

Ronald
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[James Almer]

On 5/18/2016 3:40 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer 
> ---
>  doc/developer.texi |   29 +
>  1 file changed, 29 insertions(+)
> 
> diff --git a/doc/developer.texi b/doc/developer.texi
> index 6db93ce..4d3a7ae 100644
> --- a/doc/developer.texi
> +++ b/doc/developer.texi
> @@ -403,6 +403,35 @@ finding a new maintainer and also don't forget to update 
> the @file{MAINTAINERS}
>  
>  We think our rules are not too hard. If you have comments, contact us.
>  
> +@section Code of conduct
> +
> +Be friendly and respectful towards others and third parties.
> +Treat others the way you yourself want to be treated.
> +
> +Be considerate. Not everyone shares the same viewpoint and priorities as you 
> do.
> +Different opinions and interpretations help the project.
> +Looking at issues from a different perspective assists development.
> +
> +Do not assume malice for things that can be attributed to incompetence. Even 
> if
> +it is malice, it's rarely good to start with that as initial assumption.
> +
> +Stay friendly even if someone acts contrarily. Everyone has a bad day
> +once in a while.
> +If you yourself have a bad day or are angry then try to take a break and 
> reply
> +once you are calm and without anger if you have to.
> +
> +Try to help other team members and cooperate if you can.
> +
> +The goal of software development is to create technical excellence, not for 
> any
> +individual to be better and "win" against the others. Large software projects
> +are only possible and successful through teamwork.
> +
> +If someone struggles do not put them down. Give them a helping hand
> +instead and point them in the right direction.
> +
> +Finally, keep in mind the immortal words of Bill and Ted,
> +"Be excellent to each other."
> +
>  @anchor{Submitting patches}
>  @section Submitting patches

I agree with this. It can and should be improved/extended over time, but it's a 
good
start.

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Paul B Mahol]

Dana 20. 5. 2016. 15:21 osoba "Michael Niedermayer" 
napisala je:
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 02:50:17PM +0200, Christophe Gisquet wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > 2016-05-20 2:38 GMT+02:00 Timothy Gu :
> > >> > Note how it has a list of specific violations, instead of vague
things like
> > >> > "Be excellent" that the FFmpeg one has.
> > >> > Note how it has a huge section on disciplinary procedures.
> > [...]
> > > I have to agree with Kieran here. I believe that as a community, we
definitely
> > > _want_ to assume good faith, etc. But conflict resolution requires
strict,
> > > codified consequences for violations of the CoC, to ensure fairness.
The
> > > language needs to be made more serious so that people actually take
it in the
> > > way it is intended.
> >
> > Completely agree. Without sanctions, I fear it won't help mitigate
problems.
>
> I belive that people simply not accepting aggression and _politely_
> pointing it out to their peers when they treat others disrespectful
> alone would already have a big effect
>
> on (i belive) debian lists i saw multiple people politely point out
> that an attack was inappropriate and it stoped, no one was banned
> I thus think similar stern but respectfull community opposition
> alone could be effective for ffmpeg
>
> I think a big part of the problem is that if one insults another
> the friends of both support the seperation (that is we good vs. they
> bad thinking). People should instead oppose the disrespect itself but
> support people on both sides (we are all good, the language used / act
> there was bad)

Sorry, by you are simply wrong. This is about not following dev guide for
patch submission and then attacking anyone, but that is less important now.
Biggest problem is irrational thinking and spreading lies.

>
> [...]
>
>
> > Also, because a text is subject to interpretation, the CoC could maybe
> > state how this is arbitrated.
>
> This is a very hard problem and also part of why i suggest to wait
> with adding penalties/sanctions.
> Note iam suggesting to wait with adding penalties NOT to
> not add penalties if it doesnt work without
>
> also if penalties are used they will in practice probably end up
> being applied to both sides as "who started" is likely often another
> very hard problem people would have very heated oppinions about
>
> [...]
> --
> Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
>
> Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony.
> -- Heraclitus
>
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Michael Niedermayer]

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 02:50:17PM +0200, Christophe Gisquet wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 2016-05-20 2:38 GMT+02:00 Timothy Gu :
> >> > Note how it has a list of specific violations, instead of vague things 
> >> > like
> >> > "Be excellent" that the FFmpeg one has.
> >> > Note how it has a huge section on disciplinary procedures.
> [...]
> > I have to agree with Kieran here. I believe that as a community, we 
> > definitely
> > _want_ to assume good faith, etc. But conflict resolution requires strict,
> > codified consequences for violations of the CoC, to ensure fairness. The
> > language needs to be made more serious so that people actually take it in 
> > the
> > way it is intended.
> 
> Completely agree. Without sanctions, I fear it won't help mitigate problems.

I belive that people simply not accepting aggression and _politely_
pointing it out to their peers when they treat others disrespectful
alone would already have a big effect

on (i belive) debian lists i saw multiple people politely point out
that an attack was inappropriate and it stoped, no one was banned
I thus think similar stern but respectfull community opposition
alone could be effective for ffmpeg

I think a big part of the problem is that if one insults another
the friends of both support the seperation (that is we good vs. they
bad thinking). People should instead oppose the disrespect itself but
support people on both sides (we are all good, the language used / act
there was bad)

[...]


> Also, because a text is subject to interpretation, the CoC could maybe
> state how this is arbitrated.

This is a very hard problem and also part of why i suggest to wait
with adding penalties/sanctions.
Note iam suggesting to wait with adding penalties NOT to
not add penalties if it doesnt work without

also if penalties are used they will in practice probably end up
being applied to both sides as "who started" is likely often another
very hard problem people would have very heated oppinions about

[...]
-- 
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony.
-- Heraclitus


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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Christophe Gisquet]

Hi,

2016-05-20 2:38 GMT+02:00 Timothy Gu :
>> > Note how it has a list of specific violations, instead of vague things like
>> > "Be excellent" that the FFmpeg one has.
>> > Note how it has a huge section on disciplinary procedures.
[...]
> I have to agree with Kieran here. I believe that as a community, we definitely
> _want_ to assume good faith, etc. But conflict resolution requires strict,
> codified consequences for violations of the CoC, to ensure fairness. The
> language needs to be made more serious so that people actually take it in the
> way it is intended.

Completely agree. Without sanctions, I fear it won't help mitigate problems.

Also I'd like this to extend to any medium: mailing list, irc, private
communication between an offender and an "offended"...

Secondly, I'd like this to apply to any comment, whether on a person
or his work. Being frustrated is no reason for foul language, even if
that's not the most hindering stuff that can happen.

Also, because a text is subject to interpretation, the CoC could maybe
state how this is arbitrated.

Best regards,
-- 
Christophe
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Timothy Gu]

Hi,

On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 03:39:22PM +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:34:05PM +, Kieran Kunhya wrote:
> > On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 at 11:58 Moritz Barsnick  wrote:
> > 
> > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 02:18:32 +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > > > +it is malice its rarely good to start with that as initial assumption.
> > >^
> > >, it's
> > >
> > > > +The goal of Software development is to create technical excellence, not
> > > for any
> > >^ s
> > >
> > >
> > Let's compare this to the VLC code of conduct:
> > https://wiki.videolan.org/Code_of_Conduct/
> > 
> > Note how it has a list of specific violations, instead of vague things like
> > "Be excellent" that the FFmpeg one has.
> > Note how it has a huge section on disciplinary procedures.
> 
> i dont mind at all to be more specific, do people want a more specific
> list similar to vlc ?
> I thought it wasnt neccessary to write it as a strict "law" as if
> theres a nation of criminals that needs precissely worded laws.
> But rather a nation of good meaning people who all want to work
> together.

I have to agree with Kieran here. I believe that as a community, we definitely
_want_ to assume good faith, etc. But conflict resolution requires strict,
codified consequences for violations of the CoC, to ensure fairness. The
language needs to be made more serious so that people actually take it in the
way it is intended.

In addition to VLC, many other popular open-source guidelines, such as:

- Citizen Code of Conduct: http://citizencodeofconduct.org/
- Contributor Covenant: http://contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/
- Node.js: https://github.com/nodejs/node/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md
- Ruby: https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/conduct/
- etc.

all have consequences of unwelcomed behavior and/or a specific definition of
an unwelcomed behavior.

Timothy
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Nicolas George]

Le decadi 30 floréal, an CCXXIV, Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
> Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer 
> ---
>  doc/developer.texi |   29 +
>  1 file changed, 29 insertions(+)

I agree to the code of conduct.

But: I am not sure I should vote anyway, IIRC we did not finalize the voting
process rules nor the list of people who have authority. Still, voting yes
costs nothing. Also: it probably lacks a conflict resolution mechanism. But
it is a good start.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Benoit Fouet]

Hi,

Le 18 mai 2016 20:40:08 GMT+02:00, Michael Niedermayer  
a écrit :
>Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer 
>---
> doc/developer.texi |   29 +
> 1 file changed, 29 insertions(+)
>
>diff --git a/doc/developer.texi b/doc/developer.texi
>index 6db93ce..4d3a7ae 100644
>--- a/doc/developer.texi
>+++ b/doc/developer.texi
>@@ -403,6 +403,35 @@ finding a new maintainer and also don't forget to
>update the @file{MAINTAINERS}
> 
> We think our rules are not too hard. If you have comments, contact us.
> 
>+@section Code of conduct
>+
>+Be friendly and respectful towards others and third parties.
>+Treat others the way you yourself want to be treated.
>+
>+Be considerate. Not everyone shares the same viewpoint and priorities
>as you do.
>+Different opinions and interpretations help the project.
>+Looking at issues from a different perspective assists development.
>+
>+Do not assume malice for things that can be attributed to
>incompetence. Even if
>+it is malice, it's rarely good to start with that as initial
>assumption.
>+
>+Stay friendly even if someone acts contrarily. Everyone has a bad day
>+once in a while.
>+If you yourself have a bad day or are angry then try to take a break
>and reply
>+once you are calm and without anger if you have to.
>+
>+Try to help other team members and cooperate if you can.
>+
>+The goal of software development is to create technical excellence,
>not for any
>+individual to be better and "win" against the others. Large software
>projects
>+are only possible and successful through teamwork.
>+
>+If someone struggles do not put them down. Give them a helping hand
>+instead and point them in the right direction.
>+
>+Finally, keep in mind the immortal words of Bill and Ted,
>+"Be excellent to each other."
>+
> @anchor{Submitting patches}
> @section Submitting patches
> 

FWIW, fine by me too.

-- 
Ben 


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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Tobias Rapp]

On 18.05.2016 20:40, Michael Niedermayer wrote:

Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer 
---
 doc/developer.texi |   29 +
 1 file changed, 29 insertions(+)

diff --git a/doc/developer.texi b/doc/developer.texi
index 6db93ce..4d3a7ae 100644
--- a/doc/developer.texi
+++ b/doc/developer.texi
@@ -403,6 +403,35 @@ finding a new maintainer and also don't forget to update 
the @file{MAINTAINERS}

 We think our rules are not too hard. If you have comments, contact us.

+@section Code of conduct
+
+Be friendly and respectful towards others and third parties.
+Treat others the way you yourself want to be treated.
+
+Be considerate. Not everyone shares the same viewpoint and priorities as you 
do.
+Different opinions and interpretations help the project.
+Looking at issues from a different perspective assists development.
+
+Do not assume malice for things that can be attributed to incompetence. Even if
+it is malice, it's rarely good to start with that as initial assumption.
+
+Stay friendly even if someone acts contrarily. Everyone has a bad day
+once in a while.
+If you yourself have a bad day or are angry then try to take a break and reply
+once you are calm and without anger if you have to.
+
+Try to help other team members and cooperate if you can.
+
+The goal of software development is to create technical excellence, not for any
+individual to be better and "win" against the others. Large software projects
+are only possible and successful through teamwork.
+
+If someone struggles do not put them down. Give them a helping hand
+instead and point them in the right direction.
+
+Finally, keep in mind the immortal words of Bill and Ted,
+"Be excellent to each other."
+
 @anchor{Submitting patches}
 @section Submitting patches



I agree to the code of conduct and welcome its addition.

Regards,
Tobias Rapp

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Jan Ekstrom]

On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 9:40 PM, Michael Niedermayer
 wrote:
> Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer 
> ---
>  doc/developer.texi |   29 +
>  1 file changed, 29 insertions(+)
>

I agree to this addition. I think having this is a good initial
stepping stone for any future improvements.

Jan Ekström
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Thilo Borgmann]

Am 18.05.16 um 20:40 schrieb Michael Niedermayer:
> Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer 
> ---
>  doc/developer.texi |   29 +
>  1 file changed, 29 insertions(+)

I agree.

-Thilo

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[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Michael Niedermayer]

Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer 
---
 doc/developer.texi |   29 +
 1 file changed, 29 insertions(+)

diff --git a/doc/developer.texi b/doc/developer.texi
index 6db93ce..4d3a7ae 100644
--- a/doc/developer.texi
+++ b/doc/developer.texi
@@ -403,6 +403,35 @@ finding a new maintainer and also don't forget to update 
the @file{MAINTAINERS}
 
 We think our rules are not too hard. If you have comments, contact us.
 
+@section Code of conduct
+
+Be friendly and respectful towards others and third parties.
+Treat others the way you yourself want to be treated.
+
+Be considerate. Not everyone shares the same viewpoint and priorities as you 
do.
+Different opinions and interpretations help the project.
+Looking at issues from a different perspective assists development.
+
+Do not assume malice for things that can be attributed to incompetence. Even if
+it is malice, it's rarely good to start with that as initial assumption.
+
+Stay friendly even if someone acts contrarily. Everyone has a bad day
+once in a while.
+If you yourself have a bad day or are angry then try to take a break and reply
+once you are calm and without anger if you have to.
+
+Try to help other team members and cooperate if you can.
+
+The goal of software development is to create technical excellence, not for any
+individual to be better and "win" against the others. Large software projects
+are only possible and successful through teamwork.
+
+If someone struggles do not put them down. Give them a helping hand
+instead and point them in the right direction.
+
+Finally, keep in mind the immortal words of Bill and Ted,
+"Be excellent to each other."
+
 @anchor{Submitting patches}
 @section Submitting patches
 
-- 
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Thilo Borgmann]

Am 28.03.16 um 15:39 schrieb Michael Niedermayer:
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:34:05PM +, Kieran Kunhya wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 at 11:58 Moritz Barsnick  wrote:
>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>> Let's compare this to the VLC code of conduct:
>> https://wiki.videolan.org/Code_of_Conduct/
>>
>> Note how it has a list of specific violations, instead of vague things like
>> "Be excellent" that the FFmpeg one has.
>> Note how it has a huge section on disciplinary procedures.
> 
> i dont mind at all to be more specific, do people want a more specific
> list similar to vlc ?
> I thought it wasnt neccessary to write it as a strict "law" as if
> theres a nation of criminals that needs precissely worded laws.
> But rather a nation of good meaning people who all want to work
> together.

I think a more precise law-like definition is not needed.
However, listing disciplinary procedures will become very useful if we ever have
to enforce anything.


> the "Be excellent" text is identical to the linux kernel code of
> conflict.
> https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/plain/Documentation/CodeOfConflict
> 
> 
>> Note that this CoC should according to FFmpeg "rules" go through a vote,
> 
> If there is no unanimous agreement then we should vote, yes.
> If there is unanimous agreement and noone asks for a vote then iam
> not sure, it might be better to vote anyway so everyone has a chance
> to equally state if they approve or disapprove

Let's do a vote. Otherwise this whole thing will become questionable if we ever
have to act upon it.

-Thilo

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Michael Niedermayer]

On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:34:05PM +, Kieran Kunhya wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 at 11:58 Moritz Barsnick  wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 02:18:32 +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > > +it is malice its rarely good to start with that as initial assumption.
> >^
> >, it's
> >
> > > +The goal of Software development is to create technical excellence, not
> > for any
> >^ s
> >
> >
> Let's compare this to the VLC code of conduct:
> https://wiki.videolan.org/Code_of_Conduct/
> 
> Note how it has a list of specific violations, instead of vague things like
> "Be excellent" that the FFmpeg one has.
> Note how it has a huge section on disciplinary procedures.

i dont mind at all to be more specific, do people want a more specific
list similar to vlc ?
I thought it wasnt neccessary to write it as a strict "law" as if
theres a nation of criminals that needs precissely worded laws.
But rather a nation of good meaning people who all want to work
together.

the "Be excellent" text is identical to the linux kernel code of
conflict.
https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/plain/Documentation/CodeOfConflict


> Note that this CoC should according to FFmpeg "rules" go through a vote,

If there is no unanimous agreement then we should vote, yes.
If there is unanimous agreement and noone asks for a vote then iam
not sure, it might be better to vote anyway so everyone has a chance
to equally state if they approve or disapprove

[]
-- 
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

Republics decline into democracies and democracies degenerate into
despotisms. -- Aristotle


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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Kieran Kunhya]

On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 at 11:58 Moritz Barsnick  wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 02:18:32 +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > +it is malice its rarely good to start with that as initial assumption.
>^
>, it's
>
> > +The goal of Software development is to create technical excellence, not
> for any
>^ s
>
>
Let's compare this to the VLC code of conduct:
https://wiki.videolan.org/Code_of_Conduct/

Note how it has a list of specific violations, instead of vague things like
"Be excellent" that the FFmpeg one has.
Note how it has a huge section on disciplinary procedures.
Note that this CoC should according to FFmpeg "rules" go through a vote,
again more "rules" that aren't enforced.

Kieran
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Moritz Barsnick]

On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 02:18:32 +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> +it is malice its rarely good to start with that as initial assumption.
   ^
   , it's

> +The goal of Software development is to create technical excellence, not for 
> any
   ^ s

Moritz
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[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Michael Niedermayer]

Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer 
---
 doc/developer.texi |   29 +
 1 file changed, 29 insertions(+)

diff --git a/doc/developer.texi b/doc/developer.texi
index 6db93ce..b3928d3 100644
--- a/doc/developer.texi
+++ b/doc/developer.texi
@@ -403,6 +403,35 @@ finding a new maintainer and also don't forget to update 
the @file{MAINTAINERS}
 
 We think our rules are not too hard. If you have comments, contact us.
 
+@section Code of conduct
+
+Be friendly and respectful towards others and third parties.
+Treat others the way you yourself want to be treated.
+
+Be considerate. Not everyone shares the same viewpoint and priorities as you 
do.
+Different opinions and interpretations help the project.
+Looking at issues from a different perspective assists development.
+
+Do not assume malice for things that can be attributed to incompetence. Even if
+it is malice its rarely good to start with that as initial assumption.
+
+Stay friendly even if someone acts contrarily. Everyone has a bad day
+once in a while.
+If you yourself have a bad day or are angry then try to take a break and reply
+once you are calm and without anger if you have to.
+
+Try to help other team members and cooperate if you can.
+
+The goal of Software development is to create technical excellence, not for any
+individual to be better and "win" against the others. Large software projects
+are only possible and successful through teamwork.
+
+If someone struggles do not put them down. Give them a helping hand
+instead and point them in the right direction.
+
+Finally, keep in mind the immortal words of Bill and Ted,
+"Be excellent to each other."
+
 @anchor{Submitting patches}
 @section Submitting patches
 
-- 
1.7.9.5

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Michael Niedermayer]

Hi

On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 09:28:08PM +0100, Thilo Borgmann wrote:
> Am 26.03.16 um 15:00 schrieb Josh de Kock:
> > On 26/03/2016 13:28, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> >> +@section Code of conduct
> >> +
> >> +Respect other people, treat others the way you yourself want to be 
> >> treated.
> > The Code of Conduct is simple, and is based around a few key points:
> 
> No ',', I think, just plain "and".
> 
> 
> > *insert goal of project here*
> > 
> > Be friendly & respectful.
> 
> ... and ...
> 
> 
> > This is the most simple point; treat others the way you would like to be
> > treated.
> 
> ... point: Treat others...
> 
> 
> >> +Be tolerant to differences in oppinion, people often have different 
> >> priorities
> >> +and may see a problem from a different viewpoint.
> >> +Do not assume mallice for things that can be attributed to incompetence. 
> >> Even if
> >> +it is mallice its rarely good to start with that as initial assumtation.
> 
> > Be considerate.
> > Not everyone has the viewpoint as you; different opinions, and
> > interpretations help the project, as looking at issues from a different
> > angle can assist development.
> 
> Be considerate. Not everyone shares the same viewpoint as you do.
> Different opinions and interpretations help the project.
> Looking at issues from a different perspective assists development.
> 
> 
> >> +Act friendly towards others and about 3rd parties.
> 
> Act friendly towards others and third parties.
> 
> 
> >> +Be friendly when someone once has a bad day or is angry and acts 
> >> unfriendly.
> >> +Everyone has a bad day once in a while.
> 
> Stay friendly even if someone acts contrarily. Everyone has a bad day
> once in a while.
> 
> 
> >> +If you yourself have a bad day or are angry then try to take a break and 
> >> reply
> >> +once you are calm and without anger if you have to.
> 
> If it is you who misbehaved in such a way, try to take a break and
> continue to reply once you are in a good mood again.
> 
> 
> >> +Help other teammembers if you can instead of trying to personally gain 
> >> from not helping.
> 
> Try to help other team members and cooperate if you can.
> 
> 
> >> +The goal of Software development is to create technical excellence, not 
> >> for any
> >> +individual to be better and "win" against the others. Large software 
> >> projects
> >> +are only possible and successfull through teamwork.
> > This is open source, it's for the common good.
> 
> This is open source and it is for the common good.
> 
> 
> > Remember that there are others who try to benefit from the project, and
> > in different ways. Some want to use it, some want to contribute to it,
> > but the main thing is that we all have a goal--to help each other. 
> 
> Remember that there are other who try to benefit from the project in
> different ways. There are users and contributors but everyone shares our
> common goal of helping each other.
> 
> 
> > If you see someone struggling with something, rather than putting them
> > down, why not help them? Give them some pointers, or show them in the
> > right direction.
> 
> If someone struggles do not put them down. Give them a helping hand
> instead and point them in the right direction.
> 
> 
> >> +Or maybe all that can be condensed into Bill and Teds words
> > However, all these point can easily be summarised using Bill & Ted's
> > words: "Be excellent to each other."
> 
> Finally, ... "Be excellent to each other."
> 
> 
> 
> I think I might have made it a little better. However, I'm far from
> being a native speaker.

ive made most suggested changes, ive left some things in though and
for example didnt add
"but everyone shares our common goal of helping each other."
as this is more an ideal than what actually is.


I also skiped some of the changes suggested at the top as they sounded
odd to me..

slight changes to remove duplication and to fit things together

will post a new patch soon

-- 
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No great genius has ever existed without some touch of madness. -- Aristotle


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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Thilo Borgmann]

Am 26.03.16 um 21:28 schrieb Thilo Borgmann:
> [...]
>> Remember that there are others who try to benefit from the project, and
>> in different ways. Some want to use it, some want to contribute to it,
>> but the main thing is that we all have a goal--to help each other. 
> 
> Remember that there are other who try to benefit from the project in
  ^ -> others

-Thilo
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Thilo Borgmann]

Am 26.03.16 um 15:00 schrieb Josh de Kock:
> On 26/03/2016 13:28, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
>> +@section Code of conduct
>> +
>> +Respect other people, treat others the way you yourself want to be treated.
> The Code of Conduct is simple, and is based around a few key points:

No ',', I think, just plain "and".


> *insert goal of project here*
> 
> Be friendly & respectful.

... and ...


> This is the most simple point; treat others the way you would like to be
> treated.

... point: Treat others...


>> +Be tolerant to differences in oppinion, people often have different 
>> priorities
>> +and may see a problem from a different viewpoint.
>> +Do not assume mallice for things that can be attributed to incompetence. 
>> Even if
>> +it is mallice its rarely good to start with that as initial assumtation.

> Be considerate.
> Not everyone has the viewpoint as you; different opinions, and
> interpretations help the project, as looking at issues from a different
> angle can assist development.

Be considerate. Not everyone shares the same viewpoint as you do.
Different opinions and interpretations help the project.
Looking at issues from a different perspective assists development.


>> +Act friendly towards others and about 3rd parties.

Act friendly towards others and third parties.


>> +Be friendly when someone once has a bad day or is angry and acts unfriendly.
>> +Everyone has a bad day once in a while.

Stay friendly even if someone acts contrarily. Everyone has a bad day
once in a while.


>> +If you yourself have a bad day or are angry then try to take a break and 
>> reply
>> +once you are calm and without anger if you have to.

If it is you who misbehaved in such a way, try to take a break and
continue to reply once you are in a good mood again.


>> +Help other teammembers if you can instead of trying to personally gain from 
>> not helping.

Try to help other team members and cooperate if you can.


>> +The goal of Software development is to create technical excellence, not for 
>> any
>> +individual to be better and "win" against the others. Large software 
>> projects
>> +are only possible and successfull through teamwork.
> This is open source, it's for the common good.

This is open source and it is for the common good.


> Remember that there are others who try to benefit from the project, and
> in different ways. Some want to use it, some want to contribute to it,
> but the main thing is that we all have a goal--to help each other. 

Remember that there are other who try to benefit from the project in
different ways. There are users and contributors but everyone shares our
common goal of helping each other.


> If you see someone struggling with something, rather than putting them
> down, why not help them? Give them some pointers, or show them in the
> right direction.

If someone struggles do not put them down. Give them a helping hand
instead and point them in the right direction.


>> +Or maybe all that can be condensed into Bill and Teds words
> However, all these point can easily be summarised using Bill & Ted's
> words: "Be excellent to each other."

Finally, ... "Be excellent to each other."



I think I might have made it a little better. However, I'm far from
being a native speaker.

-Thilo

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Clément Bœsch]

On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 02:28:46PM +0100, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer 
> ---
>  doc/developer.texi |   19 +++
>  1 file changed, 19 insertions(+)
> 
> diff --git a/doc/developer.texi b/doc/developer.texi
> index 6db93ce..ec21c57 100644
> --- a/doc/developer.texi
> +++ b/doc/developer.texi
> @@ -403,6 +403,25 @@ finding a new maintainer and also don't forget to update 
> the @file{MAINTAINERS}
>  
>  We think our rules are not too hard. If you have comments, contact us.
>  
> +@section Code of conduct
> +
> +Respect other people, treat others the way you yourself want to be treated.
> +Be tolerant to differences in oppinion, people often have different 
> priorities
> +and may see a problem from a different viewpoint.
> +Do not assume mallice for things that can be attributed to incompetence. 
> Even if
> +it is mallice its rarely good to start with that as initial assumtation.
> +Act friendly towards others and about 3rd parties.
> +Be friendly when someone once has a bad day or is angry and acts unfriendly.
> +Everyone has a bad day once in a while.
> +If you yourself have a bad day or are angry then try to take a break and 
> reply
> +once you are calm and without anger if you have to.
> +Help other teammembers if you can instead of trying to personally gain from 
> not helping.
> +The goal of Software development is to create technical excellence, not for 
> any
> +individual to be better and "win" against the others. Large software projects
> +are only possible and successfull through teamwork.
> +Or maybe all that can be condensed into Bill and Teds words
> +"Be excellent to each other."
> +

:set spell

→ oppinion
→ mallice (x2)
→ assumtation
→ teammembers
→ successfull

Regards,

-- 
Clément B.


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[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/developer.texi: Add a code of conduct

[Michael Niedermayer]

Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer 
---
 doc/developer.texi |   19 +++
 1 file changed, 19 insertions(+)

diff --git a/doc/developer.texi b/doc/developer.texi
index 6db93ce..ec21c57 100644
--- a/doc/developer.texi
+++ b/doc/developer.texi
@@ -403,6 +403,25 @@ finding a new maintainer and also don't forget to update 
the @file{MAINTAINERS}
 
 We think our rules are not too hard. If you have comments, contact us.
 
+@section Code of conduct
+
+Respect other people, treat others the way you yourself want to be treated.
+Be tolerant to differences in oppinion, people often have different priorities
+and may see a problem from a different viewpoint.
+Do not assume mallice for things that can be attributed to incompetence. Even 
if
+it is mallice its rarely good to start with that as initial assumtation.
+Act friendly towards others and about 3rd parties.
+Be friendly when someone once has a bad day or is angry and acts unfriendly.
+Everyone has a bad day once in a while.
+If you yourself have a bad day or are angry then try to take a break and reply
+once you are calm and without anger if you have to.
+Help other teammembers if you can instead of trying to personally gain from 
not helping.
+The goal of Software development is to create technical excellence, not for any
+individual to be better and "win" against the others. Large software projects
+are only possible and successfull through teamwork.
+Or maybe all that can be condensed into Bill and Teds words
+"Be excellent to each other."
+
 @anchor{Submitting patches}
 @section Submitting patches
 
-- 
1.7.9.5

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