On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
Certainly I could auto-update layout and avoid this problem, but I'm
*never* going to do that. Do recent versions of Finale manage not to
screw up existing layouts? Perhaps it has something to do with the
fact that I tend to work back and forth between 75%
On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
The reason why this bothers me is because it means data is constantly
being discarded and recreated. This means that there will be a
certain level of fragmentation in the file's internal structures
(whether in RAM only, in temp files only, or in the actual
On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
There is simply no excuse for repeating a system from one page to
another. That's a bug. I shouldn't have to update page layout
(manually or automatically) just to be sure I don't encounter that
bug.
The bug is that auto-layout-update can be disabled in
On 17 Feb 2009 at 0:47, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 17 Feb 2009, at 12:24 AM, David W. Fenton wrote:
there was no reason that page
layout needed to be updated.
Yes there is, as I said. You modified note values. That always
requires the layout to be updated. That's just how Finale
On 17 Feb 2009 at 0:50, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 17 Feb 2009, at 12:24 AM, David W. Fenton wrote:
Again, this is why I feel that the layout should always update
automatically.
And I respectfully disagree. I don't want things jumping around
onscreen while I'm working.
On 17 Feb 2009 at 10:03, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
Certainly I could auto-update layout and avoid this problem, but I'm
*never* going to do that. Do recent versions of Finale manage not to
screw up existing layouts? Perhaps it has something to do with
On 17 Feb 2009 at 10:06, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
There is simply no excuse for repeating a system from one page to
another. That's a bug. I shouldn't have to update page layout
(manually or automatically) just to be sure I don't encounter that
bug.
On 17 Feb 2009 at 10:09, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
The reason why this bothers me is because it means data is constantly
being discarded and recreated. This means that there will be a
certain level of fragmentation in the file's internal structures
On 16 Feb 2009 at 21:45, Richard Yates wrote:
I have a vague memory of Speedy octave errors at the beginning of
measures. I think I found that hitting keypad '0' twice (to exit and
reenter Speedy) minimized the hassle.
In general, deleting and then re-entering the note always fixes the
Darcy James Argue wrote:
I will repeat, for not the first time, that I do not understand the
rationale for anyone leaving Automatically Update Layout off.
Here is mine: Finale has a bug in how it relates to plugins and you can
avoid that bug by turning off AUL. Specifically, any plugin
In FinWin 2k6 it happens sometimes at the beginning of a measure without
any apparent reason.
If I can recall well it happens more frequently in bass clef staves.
David W. Fenton ha scritto:
On 16 Feb 2009 at 21:45, Richard Yates wrote:
I have a vague memory of Speedy octave errors at the
David W. Fenton wrote:
On 17 Feb 2009 at 10:09, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
The reason why this bothers me is because it means data is constantly
being discarded and recreated. This means that there will be a
certain level of fragmentation in the file's
David W. Fenton wrote:
On 16 Feb 2009 at 21:45, Richard Yates wrote:
I have a vague memory of Speedy octave errors at the beginning of
measures. I think I found that hitting keypad '0' twice (to exit and
reenter Speedy) minimized the hassle.
In general, deleting and then re-entering the note
On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
Well, I am not an expert on Finale's data structures, but I am pretty
sure updating the layout actually changes nothing in the file itself.
You can't seriously believe that, can you? Before my update layout,
pages displayed the problem. After I updated,
On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
I think there might be a slight misunderstanding of what updating the
layout actually does. It does not manipulate any data (unless such
options are active) in the actual file.
Page layout is not stored in the Finale file? You realize how
ridiculous
On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
You snipped the context. I did not claim that automatic layout
updating caused that problem, but automatic music spacing *does*
cause the problem. And it's only if I had automatic music spacing
turned on that the music spacing could have changed without me
On 17.02.2009 dc wrote:
I'm afraid David is right on this count. I just modified the music spacing,
saved and closed the file without updating the layout. When I reopen it, the
layout is still the same and needs to be updated.
Well, that's actually not what David just discribed, he said it
Can someone explain to me how one can keep the settings for
note-attached expressions when going from 2k7 to 2k9 in a default file
(ie no music in the file)? It seems to me that there is no way to do
this, which just seems ridiculous. Finale insists on importing all
expressions with their
Is there any way I can place a fermata on a whole bar rest in an empty bar
in three time (3/4)
Thanks,
Lawrence
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I have found that using a measure-attached fermata can induce a fatal HP errors
when updating old FINALE files.
I have adopted another tactic for measues in that I place the fermata exactly
where it goes as an articulation. In open bars I have the exact rest position
with the articulation
On 17 Feb 2009, at 8:59 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:
Darcy James Argue wrote:
I will repeat, for not the first time, that I do not understand
the rationale for anyone leaving Automatically Update Layout off.
Here is mine: Finale has a bug in how it relates to plugins and you
can avoid
Enter a whole rest with the Speedy Entry Tool, choose Leave the
measure alone in the dialog box, then enter the fermata as an
articulation. It's likely you will want this measure NOT to be
included in multimeasure rests, which it will not be.
Hal Owen
Is there any way I can place a fermata
A couple things from this Automatic Update Layout discussion:
1) Plug-ins can turn the various automatic layout settings on and off.
If you see automatic layout being switched out from under you, see if
you can relate this to running a specific plug-in. If so, please
report the problem to
The short answer is no. As I recall, the specific problem occurs for Beam
Over Barline when the beam crosses a page boundary. Finale does an internal
AUL in mid-stream at one point when I force a recalculation of measure (or
bar) metrics, and at that point I can no longer see the relevant system
That's how I do it. The only issue is with TGTools smart part
explosion, which deletes the contents of the measure and replaces it
with a default rest, which does NOT have a fermata on it. It also
does this with say, a measure of 3/4 with a half rest and a quarter
rest and a fermata on the
Another way I've accomplished this in larger scores is to simply leave
the rest as a default whole rest and place a fermata as an expression
over the measure. Multimeasure rests will break if you select that
option in the creation dialog box. I find it faster since you can add
and move
On 17-Feb-09, at 17-Feb-09 1:26 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 17 Feb 2009, at 8:59 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:
Darcy James Argue wrote:
I will repeat, for not the first time, that I do not understand
the rationale for anyone leaving Automatically Update Layout off.
Here is mine:
Now we're talking things I don't understand - how do you get a fermata as an
expression?
Thanks,
Lawrence
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I have hymns in four parts using this layout:
S - Layer 1
A - Layer 2
T - Layer 1
B - Layer 2
I am wondering if a Script could be written to take these parts and
create parts in Bb for the SA and parts for the Viola clef suing the T.
And, if this is possible, would it be easier if they
I can think of lots of tenors who should be sued!
Sorry, thought I'd get it in before everyone else did.
Lawrence
I am wondering if a Script could be written to take these parts and create
parts in Bb for the SA and parts for the Viola clef suing the T.
Lawrenceyates.co.uk
On 17 Feb 2009 at 9:51, dhbailey wrote:
Can you reproduce that behavior consistently in your version
of Finale?
No, I can't.
It sounded like it just crept into your setup
recently, so if someone had asked you a couple of weeks ago
if it had been squashed in your version, you could have
On 17 Feb 2009 at 14:52, dc wrote:
I don't have the automatic update layout out on, but I update it manually
as needed without even thinking. It's a habit I've had for so many years
that I never even thought of changing this setting.
I'm pretty automatic with it, too, especially during the
On 17 Feb 2009 at 7:59, Robert Patterson wrote:
David's concern that excessive updating could cause fragmentation is
probably not warranted. This is based on a plugin-writer's level of
knowledge about Finale internals, rather than a Finale developer's. But
without boring the list with a a lot
On 17 Feb 2009 at 9:49, dhbailey wrote:
David W. Fenton wrote:
On 17 Feb 2009 at 10:09, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
The reason why this bothers me is because it means data is constantly
being discarded and recreated. This means that there will be a
Just a single character text expression using the character in slot 85 from
Maestro font (slot 117 is the upside-down fermata). You can define it for
playback as a tempo change but would have to reset the tempo following it.
Now we're talking things I don't understand - how do you get a
fermata
On 17 Feb 2009 at 16:15, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
Well, I am not an expert on Finale's data structures, but I am pretty
sure updating the layout actually changes nothing in the file itself.
You can't seriously believe that, can you? Before my
Thanks - that looks like the solution I need,
Cheers,
Lawrence
2009/2/17 Richard Yates rich...@yatesguitar.com
Just a single character text expression using the character in slot 85 from
Maestro font (slot 117 is the upside-down fermata). You can define it for
playback as a tempo change but
On 17 Feb 2009 at 16:19, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
I think there might be a slight misunderstanding of what updating the
layout actually does. It does not manipulate any data (unless such
options are active) in the actual file.
Page layout is
Go to the Expression Edit dialog box, pick one of the existing default
expressions like p that use Maestro, Engraver, whatever your default
music font is, duplicate it, edit, hilight it, change the character to
'U' as in capital U. Done. Put it where you want.
J D Thomas
ThomaStudios
On 17 Feb 2009 at 16:27, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 17.02.2009 dc wrote: I'm afraid David is right on this count. I
just modified the music spacing, saved and closed the file without
updating the layout. When I reopen it, the layout is still the same
and needs to be updated.
Well, that's
On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
Sorry, but I'm really not following you here. If the onscreen layout
is screwed up, I expect it to print that way. If I close the file
without updating the layout, I expect to see the same screwed-up
layout. If I update layout so that it's correct and then
On 17 Feb 2009 at 16:29, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
You snipped the context. I did not claim that automatic layout
updating caused that problem, but automatic music spacing *does*
cause the problem. And it's only if I had automatic music spacing
On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
Ridiculous it may be (I actually have no opinion on that), but that's
how Finale works.
I don't believe there's anything ridiculous about it.
But those were your words ...;-)
Johannes
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On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
AUL doesn't offer me anything I have ever needed, either, as my
workflow is such that I do page layout at the end of the entry
process. If I had changed the music in such a way as to alter the
width of any measures, I would have respaced the music and
On 17.02.2009 Michael Good wrote:
1) Plug-ins can turn the various automatic layout settings on and off.
If you see automatic layout being switched out from under you, see if
you can relate this to running a specific plug-in. If so, please
report the problem to MakeMusic and/or the plug-in
On 17 Feb 2009 at 13:26, Darcy James Argue wrote:
David's reasons, on the other hand, make no sense at all to me. He
keeps mentioning issues related to Automatic Music Spacing, which of
course has nothing to do with Automatic Update Layout
I only brought up automatic music spacing because
On 17 Feb 2009 at 22:14, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
Whatever the case, I still cannot understand your reasoning for not
having the auto-update feature on.
Because I do my page layout updates manually, at the time in my
workflow when I'm laying out the pages. If I then edit in such a way
as to
On 17 Feb 2009, at 4:23 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 17 Feb 2009 at 13:26, Darcy James Argue wrote:
David's reasons, on the other hand, make no sense at all to me. He
keeps mentioning issues related to Automatic Music Spacing, which of
course has nothing to do with Automatic Update Layout
On 17 Feb 2009 at 22:22, Johannes Gebauer wrote:
On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
AUL doesn't offer me anything I have ever needed, either, as my
workflow is such that I do page layout at the end of the entry
process. If I had changed the music in such a way as to alter the
width
A one-character text expression using your music font.
JR
On 2/17/09 3:06 PM, Lawrence Yates yateslawre...@googlemail.com wrote:
Now we're talking things I don't understand - how do you get a fermata as an
expression?
Thanks,
Lawrence
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David W. Fenton wrote:
Actually, the reason it's happening to me a lot now is simply because
I'm using Speedy with computer keyboard for note entry exclusively,
whereas previously I only used MIDI keyboard -- and the problem never
happened there, of course. I do recall it from many years ago
On 17 Feb 2009 at 16:34, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 17 Feb 2009, at 4:23 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 17 Feb 2009 at 13:26, Darcy James Argue wrote:
David's reasons, on the other hand, make no sense at all to me. He
keeps mentioning issues related to Automatic Music Spacing, which of
On 17 Feb 2009 at 15:20, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
David W. Fenton wrote:
Actually, the reason it's happening to me a lot now is simply because
I'm using Speedy with computer keyboard for note entry exclusively,
whereas previously I only used MIDI keyboard -- and the problem never
On 17 Feb 2009, at 5:03 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 17 Feb 2009 at 16:34, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 17 Feb 2009, at 4:23 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 17 Feb 2009 at 13:26, Darcy James Argue wrote:
I only brought up automatic music spacing because someone asserted
that *of course* I
Lawrence Yates wrote:
Now we're talking things I don't understand - how do you get a fermata as an
expression?
Thanks,
Lawrence
Create an expression, and in the font selection dialog,
choose whichever music font you want and select the
character that gives the fermata and that's all. Then
Thanks for all your help with this - it's solved the problem.
Cheers,
Lawrence
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Hi Robert,
Thanks for the explanation about the Beam Over Barlines plug-in. But
in that case, as Johannes asked, why not just turn Automatic Update
Layout off from within the plug-in? You can then do a manual update
layout, do the plug-in changes, run further manual update layouts if
needed, then
David W. Fenton wrote:
And if my keyboard is dirty, why don't I have any keyboard errors in
any other applications?
For that matter, it's not that they keyboard doesn't do what I tell
it -- the cursor is in exactly the right place vertically, it's just
that the note that comes out is wrong
Based on the above, it would be worth checking your computer keyboard to
see if there is some debris down inside.
This may become my favorite response to drop into usenet flame wars! RY
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Based on the above, it would be worth checking your computer keyboard to
see if there is some debris down inside.
This may become my favorite response to drop into Usenet flame wars! RY
Let me add that I do realize your suggestion was serious and, in fact, I
occasionally run into a situation -
I'm at work and only seeing today's messages, so I've missed the beginning of
this thread, but if this is the problem I think it is, I remember it quite
well. It's not actually an octave problem; it's a clef problem. I forget
exactly how it plays out, but at some point in its logic Speedy
On 17 Feb 2009 at 16:58, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
Well, perhaps my suggestion is implausible, perhaps not. My suggestion
is caused by my own personal experience where I had a problem with a
particular key combination in Finale not working as I expected, but in
another application (running
On 17 Feb 2009 at 21:03, Mark D Lew wrote:
I
forget exactly how it plays out, but at some point in its logic Speedy
assumes a treble clef positioning when you're actually in bass clef and
somehow that results in the notes appearing way too high. (It's not
actually an octave, I think it's a
Sorry guys, but I'm still having problems with the chord suffix editor.
There are no previous or next buttons so if I type Dmi7(b5) with Jazz
Text 14 Plain, I get Dmi7(B5), If I use Jazz 14 Plain, I get D~17(B5). Does
anyone ever experience these problems?
On 17.02.2009 Michael Good wrote:
Thanks for the explanation about the Beam Over Barlines plug-in. But
in that case, as Johannes asked, why not just turn Automatic Update
Layout off from within the plug-in? You can then do a manual update
layout, do the plug-in changes, run further manual update
On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
Well, you do!
No, I really don't. The measure widths haven't changed, so even if
I've replaced a whole note with sixteen 32nd notes, there is no
reason I need to update the page layout. No, it won't look good, but
it shouldn't require a page layout
On 17.02.2009 David W. Fenton wrote:
I'll update the layout when the layout is wrong. In this case, my
mistake was in not looking at the onscreen display of the page
layout.
But I'm not going to update the page layout when I can see onscreen
that it's correct, even though you claim I should
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