Re: [Finale] TAN - Use of sz ligature: opinions?
Mark D Lew schrieb: Thanks to all for the advice. It definitely helps my thinking on this question. Having read the other comments so far I would second the advice (and repeat my first one) to use the original orthography. A few points I didn't make clear in the first post: - I'm not just citing a few texts; I'll be reproducing entire librettos. Then you would have even more difficulties with modernizing (in terms of quantity ;-) - I have two source texts available to me, one original and one modernized. My choice is pretty much just which of the two to use; I wouldn't have to go through and make the changes myself. I've got a list of the current official rules, and I think I could apply them properly, but that's more work than I care to do. It's been a while since I've looked at that second source text (I used the first one in an earlier edition) so I don't recall exactly how much is changed in it. I'm pretty sure that ALL ß's were changed to ss, and all th's are changed to t. There may have been other changes I didn't notice. *If* this modernized edition exclusively uses ss then it certainly is no good edition! As others pointed out, 'ß' is still used along with 'ss'. (Just a comment on the name 'sz' (doesn't help you with your decision)). People of my grandfather's generation still call it 'es-zett' while nowadays it is called 'scharf-es' (something like 's sharp' ;-) If it has to be spelled in capitals today it is written as 'SS' (e.g. 'GROSS') while in earlier days it was written 'GROSZ'). BTW: Do you know how original your original edition is? - I'm definitely not using Fraktur! Really no need to even with historical orthography. That's not what modern editions do in Germany... I was already leaning toward sticking with the old spellings, and now I'm even more inclined in that direction. This comment from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_spelling_reform_of_1996 also leads me in that direction: Classics are typically printed without changes, unless they are specific school editions. That is definitely not true. Classics are usually only printed in original spelling in historical critical editions. Text that are for sale and to be read by Germans today are nearly always modernized since the original looks unusual for us too. The decision is always to what extent it is being modernized. That brings another question to mind: What purpose is your publication intended for? Is it as a reference to the music, something to work with or just a matter of curiosity? I'm still interested in further opinions, if anyone else wants to chime in. One remark about capitalization (what I read about in one or more comments). Please keep it!! This has nothing to do with original vs. modern. The German language just has this somewhat unusual way of capitalizing. And besides a politically motivated to print everything lowercase (in the 70ies of the past century) there isn't any tendency towards changing this. Urs ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Opening old file (Newport font)
Dear Hiro, I have eliminated this font from my most of my files, but I still keep it in the classic system folder for use in older files. Here's a copy. I hope it helps. Chuck Newport 14 copy Description: application/applefile Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 19, Issue 22
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] John Howell writes: My German study was limited to the infamous two semesters of German for Graduate Students, but I must say that I would never have known that that B thingy was a double-s (or s-set; I've never come across a reference to it as a sz ligature or read that the second consonant is a z) unless I had taken those classes. Therefore, if your target audience is English speakers who don't know much German, I'd suggest using the modern convention. Unless, of course, your intention is to duplicate the original exactly, in which case you would have to use the almost unreadable Fractur fonts as well! And another decision you have to make is whether to capitalize all the nouns, which many 18th-century English speakers were still doing in their own language. But that's admittedly the reaction of a native English speaker in the 21st century. I suspect there may be differences, with national trends, even among native English speakers. I have never studied German formally, but cannot remember how long ago I first met the sz ligature. I would expect a large proportion of musicians in the UK to be just as happy with Wagner's original spelling (though not Gothic font) as with any modernisation of it. -- Ken Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web site: http://www.mooremusic.org.uk/ I reject emails 100k automatically: warn me beforehand if you want to send one ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Opening old file (Newport font)
Chuck Israels / 05.2.14 / 10:55 AM wrote: I have eliminated this font from my most of my files, but I still keep it in the classic system folder for use in older files. Here's a copy. I hope it helps. Thank you (and Hans too) for your help. I do have the font on my legacy Macs (so we don't screw up the legal issue here :-) but, please forgive my ignorance, I have never dealt with legacy font, and am not sure what to do with it. Font Bank certainly won't read it as far as I see, and I don't have Classic env. Did Coda abandoned Newport all together? I used a few of them quite often such as 'fall', now I have to create them in shape for replacement. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinMac 2005b + Times
Allen Fisher / 05.2.14 / 11:39 AM wrote: Hmm. Not sure. I just took a couple of files through and it worked. You wanna send me the file off-list? The file I just posted, as I mentioned, contains Newport, and Finale does nothing when I run Check Font Against System. The file is here: http://www.a-no-ne.com/music/finale/Tinzy.sit -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Opening old file (Newport font)
Dear Hiro, Newport is abandoned and only works in classic. I have replaced the falls and doits in all active files with articulations from the Jazz font. The Jazz Font shapes are a little too heavy for my taste, but they are the best I can do at the moment. If you create some suitable shapes, especially if you are able to get the handles placed so that the shapes are automatically placed, I'd sure appreciate your sending them along. I wish I could be more helpful. Chuck On Feb 14, 2005, at 11:41 AM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: Chuck Israels / 05.2.14 / 10:55 AM wrote: I have eliminated this font from my most of my files, but I still keep it in the classic system folder for use in older files. Here's a copy. I hope it helps. Thank you (and Hans too) for your help. I do have the font on my legacy Macs (so we don't screw up the legal issue here :-) but, please forgive my ignorance, I have never dealt with legacy font, and am not sure what to do with it. Font Bank certainly won't read it as far as I see, and I don't have Classic env. Did Coda abandoned Newport all together? I used a few of them quite often such as 'fall', now I have to create them in shape for replacement. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com> http://anonemusic.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] 2005b fix
Darcy James Argue wrote: I meant Did Coda post a new build of *FinMac2005b* -- which I downloaded and installed as soon as it was announced. I ask this because Andrew describes a bugfix that isn't actually fixed in *my* copy of Fin2005b. I swear, it did work for a whole day. Then a few days later (this morning) it didn't. Ah, shucks, my credibility is shot on this list! Andrew Levin ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Opening old file (Newport font)
A-NO-NE Music wrote: I do have the font on my legacy Macs (so we don't screw up the legal issue here :-) but, please forgive my ignorance, I have never dealt with legacy font, and am not sure what to do with it. Font Bank certainly won't read it as far as I see, and I don't have Classic env. I am on windows, but because of my interest in fonts in general, have some interest in this. I understand that there are, or at least used to be, utilities which could take a legacy Mac font, and convert it to the current standard, which IIRC, is also the same standards used in Windows. Assuming one has the appropriate permissions, I assume from CODA, one could use this utility to modify the Newport Font to work in the current MAC environment. I fear, though, I'll have to refer any questions on this, including what packages have the capability, and even if it works at all (I've been mistaken twice before, though once was when I thought I was wrong, and wasn't) to one the fonts newsgroups, perhaps alt.binaries.mac.fonts or comp.fonts. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] JW plugins for Mac yet?
Just curious, Has anyone taken the original Mac JW plugin source code and made them OS X native? I sure do miss them. Thanks. Andrew Levin ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Opening old file (Newport font)
On Feb 14, 2005, at 4:11 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Dear Hiro, Newport is abandoned and only works in classic. I have replaced the falls and doits in all active files with articulations from the Jazz font. The Jazz Font shapes are a little too heavy for my taste, but they are the best I can do at the moment. I found those JazzFont scoops, falls, doits, etc., too heavy as well, so I reduced the point size of some of them to 20 or 22, from 24. That helped a whole bunch. I also didn't like the shape of the jazz grupetto (turn), so I substituted the tilde ~ character from Apple Chancery 28 bold, which matches everything quite well and looks better to my eye. I wish I could do the same for some other characters. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Opening old file (Newport font)
In a message dated 2/14/05 1:42:45 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thank you (and Hans too) for your help. I do have the font on my legacy Macs (so we don't screw up the legal issue here :-) but, please forgive my ignorance, I have never dealt with legacy font, and am not sure what to do with it. Font Bank certainly won't read it as far as I see, and I don't have Classic env. Did Coda abandoned Newport all together? I used a few of them quite often such as 'fall', now I have to create them in shape for replacement. As I recall, Newport was/is a Type 3 font (not Type 1) and was often problematic in its day like most other type 3 fonts were. There is little doubt that you will have some problems on the current systems. I think the only solution (if you must use Newport) is to convert to a Type 1 variety before you try and make use of it. Good luck with this. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN - Use of sz ligature: opinions?
This has been a fascinating discussion for me, and I'm glad I started it here, but I'm a little embarrassed to admit that my actual practical question is far less interesting than any of this. About five years ago, I put together a series of libretto booklets for Wagner's Ring operas, intended mostly as a means of providing an English translation for anglophone opera fans. After reviewing a variety of texts that were available to me, I settled upon one that I considered respectable, and that was that. My decision was based more on my estimation of the reliability of the source than on my own (limited) knowledge of German. A certain amount of rearranging was necessary for the format of the booklet, but the spellings I left alone. It looks like I might be going back to the file to redo some technical things in the booklets, so I wondered if it was worth revisiting the question. I know that some sources I've seen use no ß ligature at all. Perhaps that was just due to limitations of the typographical process, I don't know. It had been suggested to me that perhaps it was worth changing the spellings to make them more correct for current usage, but I'm now satisfied that to do so is perhaps a bad idea altogether and certainly not worth the extra effort it would require to do it right, so I intend to leave the spellings alone. If anyone here is sufficiently interested to look at the texts I used the first time, you can see them online at http://home.earthlink.net/~markdlew/shw/Ring.htm. -- On Feb 14, 2005, at 2:13 AM, Urs Liska wrote: *If* this modernized edition exclusively uses ss then it certainly is no good edition! As others pointed out, 'ß' is still used along with 'ss'. The one source I have here on my shelf is the current Schirmer vocal score of Walküre, it's a reprint of Schirmer's 1904 edition, which was itself based on Schott's 1899 English/German edition. This score uses ss exclusively, with no ß. On the other hand, it preserves all the ths. The Peters score -- which I don't have on hand, but I remember well -- does use the ß but converts th to t. BTW: Do you know how original your original edition is? Alas, my notes are incomplete. I have a vague recollection of the process I went through, and I know I could reconstruct my process if I had the access to the same library materials I used before, but I'm in a different city now. I can safely say that my original source was not intended as an exact rendering of Wagner's actual manuscript, but it was a standard text provided by a respectable publisher. Every text I can find online right has ß but no th, like Peters. I'm pretty sure I didn't type all the German from scratch (though I did type the Jameson translation), and I wouldn't have made spelling adjustments on my own unless I was following a source I considered reliable, so at this point I'm honestly not sure where my text came from. I do know that my intention at the time was to be true to Wagner and not modernize (hence, preserving th while most current sources use t). That brings another question to mind: What purpose is your publication intended for? Is it as a reference to the music, something to work with or just a matter of curiosity? Just a simple aid for English-speaking opera fans. As someone else noted on this thread, such people probably don't care a bit about details. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Opening old file (Newport font)
On Feb 14, 2005, at 5:00 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: On Feb 14, 2005, at 4:11 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Dear Hiro, Newport is abandoned and only works in classic. I have replaced the falls and doits in all active files with articulations from the Jazz font. The Jazz Font shapes are a little too heavy for my taste, but they are the best I can do at the moment. I found those JazzFont scoops, falls, doits, etc., too heavy as well, so I reduced the point size of some of them to 20 or 22, from 24. That helped a whole bunch. Sometimes I miss the simplest idea! Thanks Chris, I will try this. It might just do the trick for me. Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
