[Finale] Bass Trom
Just watched a pay-TV programme of a concert called Bocelli Statue of Liberty Concert, from NJ Liberty State Park, featuring Bocelli (obviously), two sopranos-, one of whom (long hair) had the most grating portamente ever, and the New Jersey Symph. No date was given, but I suspect about 2000. yes, folks TV programmes really are up to date here in OZ. Anyway- my question. It could have been a trick of perspective, but I think not. Looking from over the conductors shoulder, one could see what appeared to be a massive Bass Trombone. The final curve appeared to have a width of about a foot! Never saw, or heard it played, but Im sure I saw it correctly. Anyone shed any light on this huge horn? What was it used in? What is it pitched in? Triggers? Valves? It appeared to be a sit-down only model. Puzzled, Cheers, Keith in OZ. Keith Helgesen. Director of Music, Canberra City Band. Ph: (02) 62910787. Band Mob. 0436-620587 Private Mob 0417-042171 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 4/03/2005 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Bass Trom
Hi Keith, There is such a thing as a contrabass trombone. One of the players in Maria Schneider's band plays it on her new record, so I suspect that's what you saw. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 07 Mar 2005, at 3:44 AM, Keith Helgesen wrote: Just watched a pay-TV programme of a concert called Bocelli Statue of Liberty Concert, from NJ Liberty State Park, featuring Bocelli (obviously), two sopranos-, one of whom (long hair) had the most grating portamente ever, and the New Jersey Symph. No date was given, but I suspect about 2000. yes, folks TV programmes really are up to date here in OZ. Anyway- my question. It could have been a trick of perspective, but I think not. Looking from over the conductors shoulder, one could see what appeared to be a massive Bass Trombone. The final curve appeared to have a width of about a foot! Never saw, or heard it played, but Im sure I saw it correctly. Anyone shed any light on this huge horn? What was it used in? What is it pitched in? Triggers? Valves? It appeared to be a sit-down only model. Puzzled, Cheers, Keith in OZ. Keith Helgesen. Director of Music, Canberra City Band. Ph: (02) 62910787. Band Mob. 0436-620587 Private Mob 0417-042171 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 4/03/2005 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Bass Trom
There are a few varieties of contrabass trombone that I know of. One is pitched in BBb, has a double slide (four tubes instead of two), a single F trigger, and is played with a mouthpiece close to the size of a tuba mouthpiece (makes sense, as the tessitura is so similar. The model I am familiar with is made by Mirafon. This is the type that is played by Phil Teele on Toshiko Akiyoshi's contrabass trombone feature I Ain't Gonna Ask No More. Another is pitched in F, with a single slide played with an extension (or not, if you have long arms like me), and often a valve lowering it a fourth. This instrument might seem similar to the bass trombone in G (hey, it's only a tone difference!), but the bore is more like the BBb contrabass (rather than the G bass, whose bore is close to a regular bass trombone) and sounds accordingly. Then there is the cimbasso, which is kind of like a valve contrabass trombone. There doesn't appear to be a lot of standardisation with this instrument, but they are commonly pitched in F or Eb, and often have four to six valves, no hand slide. The configurations vary as well, from a flat-out valve trombone look to more of a euphonium-with-a-trombone-bell type of set-up. They often have pegs to support them, as they are so heavy, and it very well may have been this that you saw. This is the first page turned up by Google http://www.wcwband.co.uk/cimbasso.htm so you might recognize the instrument from the photo. Christopher On Mar 7, 2005, at 5:13 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Keith, There is such a thing as a contrabass trombone. One of the players in Maria Schneider's band plays it on her new record, so I suspect that's what you saw. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 07 Mar 2005, at 3:44 AM, Keith Helgesen wrote: Just watched a pay-TV programme of a concert called Bocelli Statue of Liberty Concert, from NJ Liberty State Park, featuring Bocelli (obviously), two sopranos-, one of whom (long hair) had the most grating portamente ever, and the New Jersey Symph. No date was given, but I suspect about 2000. yes, folks TV programmes really are up to date here in OZ. Anyway- my question. It could have been a trick of perspective, but I think not. Looking from over the conductors shoulder, one could see what appeared to be a massive Bass Trombone. The final curve appeared to have a width of about a foot! Never saw, or heard it played, but Im sure I saw it correctly. Anyone shed any light on this huge horn? What was it used in? What is it pitched in? Triggers? Valves? It appeared to be a sit-down only model. Puzzled, Cheers, Keith in OZ. Keith Helgesen. Director of Music, Canberra City Band. Ph: (02) 62910787. Band Mob. 0436-620587 Private Mob 0417-042171 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 4/03/2005 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Bass Trom
Keith Helgesen wrote: Just watched a pay-TV programme of a concert called Bocelli Statue of Liberty Concert, from NJ Liberty State Park, featuring Bocelli (obviously), two sopranos-, one of whom (long hair) had the most grating portamente ever, and the New Jersey Symph. No date was given, but I suspect about 2000. yes, folks TV programmes really are up to date here in OZ. Anyway- my question. It could have been a trick of perspective, but I think not. Looking from over the conductors shoulder, one could see what appeared to be a massive Bass Trombone. The final curve appeared to have a width of about a foot! Never saw, or heard it played, but Im sure I saw it correctly. Anyone shed any light on this huge horn? What was it used in? What is it pitched in? Triggers? Valves? It appeared to be a sit-down only model. P If it was valved, it was probably a cimbasso, a standard instrument in much of Verdi, and usually played by the tuba player. If it had a slide, it could have been a contrabass trombone, a less common visitor to the pit orchestra (required, for example, in some Varese scores), and one usually played by a trombonist. At the Budapest opera, the cimbasso is owned by the house, the tubist is not expected to bring her/his own. Daniel Wolf Budapest ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Bass Trom
At 6:06 AM -0500 3/7/05, Christopher Smith wrote: There are a few varieties of contrabass trombone that I know of. One is pitched in BBb, has a double slide (four tubes instead of two), a single F trigger, and is played with a mouthpiece close to the size of a tuba mouthpiece (makes sense, as the tessitura is so similar. The model I am familiar with is made by Mirafon. This is the type that is played by Phil Teele on Toshiko Akiyoshi's contrabass trombone feature I Ain't Gonna Ask No More. I was able to examine such an instrument, although not to play on it, at the C.G. Conn museum when the company was in South Bend, Indiana in the 1960s. It did not, however, have an F trigger. Just a straightforward BBb instrument. Indiana University owned (for Wagner, no doubt) a contrabass valve trombone by Vincent Bach. That one I did play on, and it was absolutely dreadful! Very stuffy, horrible back pressure, just not a well designed instrument at all. I'll take an ophicleide anytime!! Never had an opportunity to play a Cimbasso. It's said that Verdi prefered it to the ophicleide then used in Italian opera orchestras, and didn't really care for the bass tuba at all. There has been something of a flurry of design changes in about the last 15 years, after about 50 years when the Conn 62H (especially as played by George Roberts) was the industry standard. The first time I saw oversized (tuba?) rotary valves in use was in the U.S. Marine Band at the White House in the early '80s. Different wraps are also turning up, in an effort to free up the airflow and avoid the stuffy notes. John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Bass Trom
As I said- I only got a brief glimpse, but the pictured cimbasso appears to fit the bill! Thanks for all interest. Years ago, (early 60's?)in North Germany I went for a late walk one evening and was amazed to see, coming down a mountain road, a huge- 100 plus, marching band of ALL trombones. From slide trumpets to the biggest bass troms I've ever seen. It seems it was an annual festival attended by people from all over Europe, and I saw a 'rehearsal' march. Sadly I had to leave the town next morning and never saw the actual performance. Those were the days!! Cheers Keith in OZ Keith Helgesen. Director of Music, Canberra City Band. Ph: (02) 62910787. Band Mob. 0436-620587 Private Mob 0417-042171 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Smith Sent: Monday, 7 March 2005 10:07 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Bass Trom There are a few varieties of contrabass trombone that I know of. One is pitched in BBb, has a double slide (four tubes instead of two), a single F trigger, and is played with a mouthpiece close to the size of a tuba mouthpiece (makes sense, as the tessitura is so similar. The model I am familiar with is made by Mirafon. This is the type that is played by Phil Teele on Toshiko Akiyoshi's contrabass trombone feature I Ain't Gonna Ask No More. Another is pitched in F, with a single slide played with an extension (or not, if you have long arms like me), and often a valve lowering it a fourth. This instrument might seem similar to the bass trombone in G (hey, it's only a tone difference!), but the bore is more like the BBb contrabass (rather than the G bass, whose bore is close to a regular bass trombone) and sounds accordingly. Then there is the cimbasso, which is kind of like a valve contrabass trombone. There doesn't appear to be a lot of standardisation with this instrument, but they are commonly pitched in F or Eb, and often have four to six valves, no hand slide. The configurations vary as well, from a flat-out valve trombone look to more of a euphonium-with-a-trombone-bell type of set-up. They often have pegs to support them, as they are so heavy, and it very well may have been this that you saw. This is the first page turned up by Google http://www.wcwband.co.uk/cimbasso.htm so you might recognize the instrument from the photo. Christopher On Mar 7, 2005, at 5:13 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Keith, There is such a thing as a contrabass trombone. One of the players in Maria Schneider's band plays it on her new record, so I suspect that's what you saw. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 07 Mar 2005, at 3:44 AM, Keith Helgesen wrote: Just watched a pay-TV programme of a concert called Bocelli Statue of Liberty Concert, from NJ Liberty State Park, featuring Bocelli (obviously), two sopranos-, one of whom (long hair) had the most grating portamente ever, and the New Jersey Symph. No date was given, but I suspect about 2000. yes, folks TV programmes really are up to date here in OZ. Anyway- my question. It could have been a trick of perspective, but I think not. Looking from over the conductors shoulder, one could see what appeared to be a massive Bass Trombone. The final curve appeared to have a width of about a foot! Never saw, or heard it played, but Im sure I saw it correctly. Anyone shed any light on this huge horn? What was it used in? What is it pitched in? Triggers? Valves? It appeared to be a sit-down only model. Puzzled, Cheers, Keith in OZ. Keith Helgesen. Director of Music, Canberra City Band. Ph: (02) 62910787. Band Mob. 0436-620587 Private Mob 0417-042171 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 4/03/2005 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 4/03/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 4/03/2005 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
