[Finale] Sibelius vs Finale
From what I keep reading on our List, it sounds like Finale has become so bug-ridden that it should be avoided. Instead of asking which is faster, I want to know if Sibelius is more reliable than Finale 2K8x. Happily, I am using an older version of Finale. I have no complaints as Finale has been my faithful servant for years. Can users of later versions of Finale say the same? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sibelius vs Finale
From what I keep reading on our List, it sounds like Finale has become so bug-ridden that it should be avoided. Instead of asking which is faster, I want to know if Sibelius is more reliable than Finale 2K8x. dude, you're on a finale list; obviously people know more about the bugs in finale than in sibelius. ask sibelius users with the same level of knowledge and experience as the people commenting on finale bugs and guess what? you'll find sibelius has bugs too, except they're called features there. i do get the impression -- and this is not scientifically founded at all -- that the sib community is somewhat more ready to accept the shortcomings of the programme and do in fact bitterly complain that it should be better less than finale users **on this forum**. this of course says nothing about the quality of the users, in case anyone tries to interpret this comment that way. Happily, I am using an older version of Finale. I have no complaints as Finale has been my faithful servant for years. Can users of later versions of Finale say the same? the same people who found earlier versions peachy-keen are likely to find newer versions even more peachy-keen the people talking about the bugs aren't necessarily saying finale should be avoided, they could be saying it should be improved; sorry for being optimistic, i know most people don't expect it of me. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sibelius vs Finale
It depends on what your trying to accomplish. Sibelius provides brackets and sub brackets as well as keyboard type braces. The bracket and the brace can be used together but will collide and I have not found a way to move either from the default horizontal position. They are easily adjustable vertically, just grab an end and pull. The sub-bracket works well for isolating staves within a bracketed set but tying to install a second bracket (instead of the sub-bracket) inside the first results in only an extra wing or two being visible. Richard Smith http://www.rgsmithmusic.com dc wrote: I remember Robert saying nested brackets weren't possible in Sibelius. Is this still true? Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sibelius vs Finale
dc wrote: Lawrence David Eden écrit: Happily, I am using an older version of Finale. I have no complaints as Finale has been my faithful servant for years. Can users of later versions of Finale say the same? Well, after complaining loudly myself, I don't think (Win) 2008a is that bad. I waited for the a update to upgrade, and I'm not sorry I did. I certainly wouldn't revert to an older version (though I'm irked by some of the changes in the UI). Sibelius also has it's issues. The main difference, from what I see and read, is the way both companies deal with them. What would be interesting and helpful, rather than ranting against one or the other, would be a list of things that can be done in one and can't be done in the other. There probably aren't that many, but still it would be nice to know. Because if you need any of these, the choice is much easier to make. To start the list, here are two Sibelius features I miss in Finale: - backwards compatibility (and xml export and import is a very bad substitute for this; there is too much loss and messing up; you can't use this to work on a regular basis with someone who has an older version). - unicode support. One feature missing in Sibelius which Finale has had for years: Independent time signatures so a person can easily enter a score with, for example, 6/8 in some staves and 2/4 in others. It's possible in Sibelius but requires a lot of workarounds to accomplish it. But those workarounds are explained in the manual, which is something I haven't seen a lot of in the Finale manuals (although admittedly I haven't looked at them a lot recently.) -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sibelius vs Finale
Lawrence David Eden wrote: From what I keep reading on our List, it sounds like Finale has become so bug-ridden that it should be avoided. Instead of asking which is faster, I want to know if Sibelius is more reliable than Finale 2K8x. Happily, I am using an older version of Finale. I have no complaints as Finale has been my faithful servant for years. Can users of later versions of Finale say the same? Later versions of Finale work wonderfully for some people, and a lot of the bugs which people complain about are specialty bugs. On the other hand, if you need the areas of Finale which have those bugs, they are work-stoppers, some of them, and make the program in it's latest version unusable for you. Sibelius hasn't had the major system problems that some people such as Chuck have been having (the freeze-on-quit problem), but there are frustrations with it also. The frustrations are nowhere near as major as those which have manifested themselves in the recent Finale versions, and I would say that reliability is stronger right now with Sibelius. But the only way to know if one or the other will be better will be to install the demo versions of both and see. I've never had any major system freezes with Finale and I've never had any major system freezes with Sibelius. There are aggravations with both programs, but reliability isn't one of them with Sibelius. And except for a few people these days, it isn't an issue with Finale, either. Reliability is one thing to consider, certainly. Company future is another. Why has Finale/Makemusic not been able to find a permanent home with a larger corporation the way that Sibelius has? Can MakeMusic keep on as it has been recently and survive? Can it capture a larger share of the education market, which is where any notation program (in my not-so-humble opinion) should be making as large a presence as possible? The Finale new-users and upgraders of tomorrow are those who are introduced in a positive way to the program today. And in none of the schools around me is Finale being used. Sibelius is the clear winner. In my state's annual 3-day Music Educators' Conference and All-State Festival this Spring, there are 3 workshops aimed at 1) beginners to notation software; 2) people who have used it some but who aren't very advanced with it; and 3) People who want to use it in its advanced capabilities. And they're all put on by a Sibelius software representative. Golly gee, I wonder which product all those educators will walk away feeling positive about and will buy for their schools if they don't already have it and will have their students learn on and most likely buy if those students decide to purchase their own copy. People on these sorts of groups tend to complain about the problems and rarely ooh and aah over all that works well with a product -- Finale, if all the gloom and doom of the past couple of years was a true indicator, is a useless piece of crap which can hardly put two quarter-notes on the same staff without problems. It's a very good program and very reliable for many people. Just not for everybody. I'm sure that there are complainers on the Sibelius forum at their web-site, but for the most part the complaints about Sibelius at the yahoogroups list are more grumblings and worries rather than full-scale work-stopping problems. And Daniel Spreadbury is there on the Sibelius list to field any and all complaints and problems and to point to specific people in the company to contact when he isn't able to provide the answer. While Allen Fischer is a very welcome member of this list, it is unofficial and he can't provide inside contact information. So the public face of Sibelius is more reassuring right now than the public face of Finale. Whether any of the inner workings of either company is stable or in crisis or positive or negative, nobody really knows for sure, so all we have to go on is the public face of the company, and right now it seems that Sibelius has the better, more reassuring public face. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sibelius vs Finale
On 22-Feb-08, at 7:27 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: the same people who found earlier versions peachy-keen are likely to find newer versions even more peachy-keen Heh, heh! I never thought of that! the people talking about the bugs aren't necessarily saying finale should be avoided, they could be saying it should be improved; sorry for being optimistic, i know most people don't expect it of me. Well, I would say avoid the original version of 2008; it's too buggy to work with. The 2008a update fixed a lot. And we LIKE you when you're optimistic! Keep it up! 8-) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sibelius vs Finale
-- Original message -- From: Christopher Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, I would say avoid the original version of 2008; it's too buggy to work with. The 2008a update fixed a lot. Hi Christopher, I agree, but I don't know why this freeze on quit bug has hit my system (with 2008a), and I seem unable to fix it. Darcy's suggestion of force quitting worked once, but does not work with 2008b. Perhaps I can re-install 2008a, and Darcy's procedure might work. After a concerned email from me, MM customer support says they are working on this. Best regards, Chuck ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
