Re: [Fis] Re: Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

2007-02-05 Thread Igor Matutinovic
Reply to Steven and Ted By genetic constraints I assume you simply mean that we have certain capacities and are not omnipotent. Is not conflict and war an indicator of our individual failure to manage social complexity? Or would you argue that war is social complexity management? I was

Re: [Fis] Re: Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

2007-02-05 Thread Robert Ulanowicz
On Fri, 2 Feb 2007, Pedro Marijuan wrote: Dear Igor and colleagues, Your question is fascinating, perhaps at the time being rather puzzling or even un-answerable... Pedro, Yes, unanswerable in the absolute sense, but there are some quantitative approximations that yield helpful insights.

Re: [Fis] Re: Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

2007-02-02 Thread Igor Matutinovic
Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity Dear Joe and colleagues, Thanks for the new angle. The problem on how to ascribe complexity looks quite complex in itself... It connects with the aspect of decomposability in parts / components of entities which surfaced last month (when arguing

Re: [Fis] Re: Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

2007-02-02 Thread Pedro Marijuan
Dear Igor and colleagues, Your question is fascinating, perhaps at the time being rather puzzling or even un-answerable... What are the complexity limits of societies? Our individual limits are obvious ---the size of natural bands depended both on ecosystems and on the number of people with

Re: [Fis] Re: Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

2007-02-02 Thread Steven Ericsson-Zenith
On Feb 2, 2007, at 5:07 AM, Igor Matutinovic (by way of Pedro Marijuan [EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: ... Considering that we necessarily operate under certain genetic constraints, are there (absolute) upper limits to our ability to manage social complexity? ... By genetic constraints I

Re: [Fis] Re: Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

2007-02-02 Thread James N Rose
Point of reference. At the first ICCS conference on Complexity at Nashua NH, USA in 1997, I presented the concept that Complexity is driven and established by communication probabilities between agent systems, with entropy-related re-distribution of information or energy or mass, being the

Re: [Fis] Re: Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

2007-02-02 Thread Ted Goranson
Steven Ericsson-Zenith wrote on 2/2/07: Or would you argue that war is social complexity management? Interpreting the term as you have, I would probably present that war is merely part of the dynamics of social systems but indicative of the inability of single humans (or small groups) to

RE: [Fis] Re: Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

2007-02-02 Thread Loet Leydesdorff
] On Behalf Of Pedro Marijuan Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:39 PM To: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: Re: [Fis] Re: Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity Dear Igor and colleagues, Your question is fascinating, perhaps at the time being rather puzzling or even un

Re: [Fis] Re: Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity

2007-02-02 Thread Steven Ericsson-Zenith
] ; http://www.leydesdorff.net/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pedro Marijuan Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:39 PM To: fis@listas.unizar.es Subject: Re: [Fis] Re: Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity Dear Igor