PROTECTED]
To: 'Stanley N. Salthe' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; fis@listas.unizar.es
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 8:22 AM
Subject: RE: [Fis] Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity
It is indeed tempting to suppose that, in the philosophical
perspective, the object of human economies
Let me add to Igor's points about instability:
Redundancy/diversity, on
the other hand, is essential ... It creates informational entropy and gives
a momentum to
material/energy entropy production ...
that
redundancy/diversity DOES NOT GET CREATED it isd always there, but we choose
to neglect it,
time.
Best
Igor
- Original Message -
From: karl javorszky
To: fis@listas.unizar.es
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Fis] Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity
Let me add to Igor's points about instability:
Redundancy/diversity
- Original Message -
*From:* karl javorszky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* fis@listas.unizar.es
*Sent:* Thursday, March 08, 2007 1:00 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Fis] Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural
Complexity
Let me add to Igor's points about instability:
Redundancy/diversity, on
the other hand
Pedro notes :
Thanks, Stan and others.
Very briefly, I was thinking on the economy (together with most of social
structure) as the arrows or bonds that connect the nodes of
individuals. Take away the arrows, the bonds, and you are left with a mere
swarm of structureless, gregarious individuals.
It is indeed tempting to suppose that, in the philosophical
perspective, the object of human economies is to produce entropy!
STAN
Yes: because the economy is equilibrating. Innovations upset the tendency
towards equilibrium (Schumpeter) and thus induce cycles into the economy.
This is
Thanks, Stan and others.
Very briefly, I was thinking on the economy (together with most of social
structure) as the arrows or bonds that connect the nodes of
individuals. Take away the arrows, the bonds, and you are left with a mere
swarm of structureless, gregarious individuals. Change the
Curiously, these complex societies also
devour far more
energy and produce far more physical entropy (both types of
entropies seem
to go hand with hand)... Well, and what are finally those
social bonds
but information?
Dear Pedro:
*Social* bonds are by their very nature generated
Dear Colleagues,
the discussion about complexity leads us back to our basic assumptions. The
core point appears to be, how we perceive a): the world, and b): what we
think about the world, and c): how a) and b) fit together. This can be
formalised into a) how we feel, b) how we think, c) how
Igor
- Original Message -
From: Guy A Hoelzer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Pedro Marijuan [EMAIL PROTECTED]; fis@listas.unizar.es
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Fis] Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity
Greetings,
I agree with Loet and Pedro
: Sat 2/24/2007 2:51 PM
To: fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: Re: [Fis] Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity
Pedro said:
Dear Igor and Stan,
-snip-
The realm of economy is almost pure information. Rather than planning,
markets are very clever ways to handle informational
Dear colleagues,
As for the first track (planning vs. markets) I would try to plainly put
the informational problem in terms of distinction on the adjacent (Guy
has also argued in a similar vein). Social structures either in markets or
in central plans become facultative instances of
Greetings,
I agree with Loet and Pedro that it seems important to distinguish between
environmental constraints (including material constraints emanating from the
qualities of components of a system) and self-imposed limitations associated
with the particular path taken as a dynamical system
for long - but
choice do we have...?
Best
Igor
- Original Message -
From: Pedro Marijuan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: fis@listas.unizar.es
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Fis] Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity
Dear Igor and Stan,
Just
as pure information.
Wouldn't it?
Regards,
Guy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Stanley N. Salthe
Sent: Sat 2/24/2007 2:51 PM
To: fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: Re: [Fis] Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity
Pedro said:
Dear Igor and Stan
Aren't all constraints a form of information? I see
constraints as informing the bounds of the adjacent possible
and adjacent probable. If this is correct, then it would
seem to render the economy as almosst pure information. In
fact, I think it would render all emergent systems as
Dear Igor and Stan,
Just a couple of pills to continue the e-conversation. Rather than an
outlandish theme, I consider this discussion of social complexity as
central to FIS agenda and --should be crucial-- to the new science of this
century. it is so obvious that our personal limitations and
and cultral capabilities to manage it are lagging
seriously behind.
The best
Igor
Original Message -
From: Pedro Marijuan
To: fis@listas.unizar.es
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Fis] Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity
Dear Igor
://www.leydesdorff.net/ http://www.leydesdorff.net/
_
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Igor Matutinovic
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:21 AM
To: fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: Re: [Fis] Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity
Dear Pedro
regarding
Dear Igor and colleagues,
I have the impression that there is an agreement about the existence of
biological and sociocultural constraints that impact on our ability to
understand and manage socioeconomic complexity. These constraints are
organized hierarchically, as Stan puts it,
] ;
http://www.leydesdorff.net/ http://www.leydesdorff.net/
_
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Igor Matutinovic
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:42 AM
To: fis@listas.unizar.es
Subject: [Fis] Continuing Discussion of Social and Cultural Complexity
Dear Joseph,
I think it is a mistake to consider the brain in isolation as a
structural complexity. Especially, if your goal is to lead to
questions of social and cultural complexity.
It seems to me that aspects of form independent of the structural
complexity of the human brain are
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