And who's fault is that?
Anyone can write spaghetti code in any language whatever the markup.
The language itself lends itself to spaghetti coding, because MXML can
easily turn into nesting hell. , unless the coders know what they are doing.
The benefits of Flex databinding and UI are bogus,
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 8:30 AM, Elia Morling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The language itself lends itself to spaghetti coding, because MXML can
easily turn into nesting hell. , unless the coders know what they are doing.
The benefits of Flex databinding and UI are bogus, if you are an OOP
This is by far the only problem of Flex.
Cedric
Apps that are not skinned or have some nice graphical touch to
them are kinda disappointing, like the BMW site that was posted..
very poor IMO.
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Getting back to the original question, Ross, another benefit of the
Flex compiler - whether you're writing MXML or AS3 - over the Flash
IDE is that all the source files for a Flex app (barring assets -
images etc.) are text files. Text files are much easier to deal with
in version control systems
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 9:03 AM, Ian Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Ian Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Notoriously, version control systems are bad at handling
differences/resolving differences between binary files, and the .fla
format is binary.
Although
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Ian Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Notoriously, version control systems are bad at handling
differences/resolving differences between binary files, and the .fla
format is binary.
Although I should point out that this is going to change in future
versions of
Have you tried the ASWing GUI Builder? If you use it, then the examples you
provided below are not required at all. The code is generated for you.
Elia
- Original Message -
From: Ian Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
Sent: Thursday,
Getting back to the original question, Ross, another benefit of the
Flex compiler - whether you're writing MXML or AS3 - over the Flash
IDE is that all the source files for a Flex app (barring assets -
images etc.) are text files. Text files are much easier to deal with
in version control
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 9:11 AM, Elia Morling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Have you tried the ASWing GUI Builder? If you use it, then the examples you
provided below are not required at all. The code is generated for you.
*ahem*
Have you tried the Flex GUI Builder? If you use it, then the examples
Please let me be the mad analogies professor here:
Flash is the Industrialization.
Flex is the factories.
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On a productivity basis, I totally agree with you. Flex made Flash
take off. Working with Flash and teams was some hard task.
Now I am all on my own, reinventing the wheel, and I feel happy
and confident with this, no team, no versionning, even no components.
I am nearing the end of a
This is what make great men you know. The mass, hmmm, is
just the mass.
You are welcome to your opinion but enjoy the solitude of your
perspective.
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Fair enough - but - I'm kind of separating out the argument here, now.
The differences in version control and command-line stuff are not to
do with the Flex _framework_ (UI, classes etc.) but to do with the
Flex _compiler_ and environment.
You don't have to touch MXML or embed any of the Flex
Yes, this I understand. As I view Flex, it is definitely the way to go.
I even thought, that maybe, in 5 years time (or 10...) Flash will
disappear as a development tool (Adobe is already referring to Flash
as the Platform, not the tool, or at least tries to beamcast it to
our brains).
Yes, I'm aware that Flex generates MXML. I respect everyone that uses Flex,
and employ it myself occasionally. Everybody has their preferences. Coming
from a Java background MXML does not appeal to me, but I understand that it
may to some.
ASWing does not support CSS that I know of. It uses a
You shouldn't forget that Flash is brilliant for vector artwork and
timeline animations. That's how we're using it these days internally -
as an asset creation tool rather than as a programming environment.
And, as Elia and others have said, it's great for non-standard UIs or
for lightweight
If I can, I will let you show some of my works, modest works, but I
say it out loud: Flash is brilliant.
You shouldn't forget that Flash is brilliant for vector artwork and
timeline animations.
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Yes, Catalyst is what we want to be looking at right now. Promising.
You shouldn't forget that Flash is brilliant for vector artwork and
timeline animations. That's how we're using it these days internally -
as an asset creation tool rather than as a programming environment.
And, as Elia and
sorry about the flood ;)
precision: Flash/Flex/AIR is brilliant!!
Flash Lite is something I would like to hide.
If I can, I will let you show some of my works, modest works, but I
say it out loud: Flash is brilliant.
You shouldn't forget that Flash is brilliant for vector artwork and
I guess alot of us (including myself) have gotten used to the global-thing-in-disguise from using it that way in Flash and kept
doing so in Flex.
Personally I don't have a problem with it and I use my own MVC-type
architecture that also includes a Singleton Model.
The thing that bothers me
Hi Jason,
i only saw this post now, not sure if it was directed at me or at the
list in general or both, but anyway:
i agree the naming conventions could be better, but I don't mind using
some kind of locator object. I posted previously about my approach I
think. I use an ApplicationRegistry
With both you can be efficient. As a proof, all the best Flash sites
are Flash, not Flex.
How do you know? I have seen some amazing Flash sites I thought were build in
the Flash IDE, and I found out later they were Flex apps, with some really
great skinning going on. I have also seen some
The language itself lends itself to spaghetti coding, because MXML can
easily turn into nesting hell.
I would say ANY language can lend itself to that. What you're really attacking
is the concept behind XML, not MXML.
XML and nesting is an ADVANTAGE in my opinion when it comes to layout.
But to do so will require considerably more code, and is harder to read.
Similarly for the UI - yes, you can replicate everything in MXML's
layout in AS3, but it also requires more code and is harder to read.
Consider this simple layout example in MXML:
Very well said and exampled Ian!
Jason
While I have no authority to defend why, I'm leaning toward PureMVC. From
what I remember it's very similar to whats being described here. Events are
hijacked and all commands are registered in one place which can be triggered
from anywhere. Of course I'll have to put my money where my mouth is
You guys don't have to post links but could you describe some of the
projects you've worked on where Flex was an easy choice over Flash?
We built a social networking application that had several UI elements - a
profile section of the person, a list of knowledge and skills that could be
The thing that bothers me about Cairngorm is the name ModelLocator as
outlined in the article. ModelLocator doesn't locate
models, it IS the model.
Oh yeah, that bothered me too - at least just in a naming convention way.
Jason Merrill
Bank of America Instructional Technology Media
Any great Flex books you'd recommend?
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
I love the responses so far. It's really helping me wrap my head around the
division of the two tools. I'm going to take Jason's advice and just jump in
and do something in Flex
I love the responses so far. It's really helping me wrap my head around the
division of the two tools. I'm going to take Jason's advice and just jump in
and do something in Flex (probably using FlashDevelop) and see where I come
out. The comparison example is definitely enticing and helps me
perhaps that's a bit of a problem that flex has;
any flex app using default components and skin will look like it has been
build in flex
any flex app using custom components /custom skin will look like it has been
build in flash
so if I try to find cool flex apps.. well I haven't seen many
You could consider the The Essential Guide to Flex 3 book by
FriendsOfED. I consider it as a nice book for beginners in the world of
Flex.
More information at: http://www.friendsofed.com/book.html?isbn=1590599500
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Hi,
it's similar but not the same.
Yes in PureMVC you register your objects as well, but you register
them by a name defined in the class being registered (and you have to
define this name). This causes references to a concrete class
everytime you retrieve your registry item and you cannot easily
I like Adobe's Flex training from the source series, and also the O'Reilly Flex
Cookbook.
Usually if you stick with Friends of Ed, O'Reilly, or Adobe press, you can't go
wrong.
Jason Merrill
Bank of America Instructional Technology Media · GCIB Staff Support
LLD
Interested in
Of course, this problem might disappear when Flex 4 is production ready!
Flex 4 makes skinning and similar activities a lot easier.
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Sure - I mean again, it just comes down to what KIND of sites you are comparing
- a cool site RIA could be equally cool as a cool 3D Flash site like EcoDaZoo
(which was done with Papervision3d by the way, and could have been done in Flex
- if there was a need for the Flex framework) - but
That would be very cool, I think people like me, who are still using flash
but only use it for asset management and flashdevelop(or whatever) for
coding, would be more motivated in making a hop over.
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Weyert de Boer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Of course, this
Thanks for all the input everyone... Nothing like a good ol' software debate ;
- )
That's why you have to decide which tool is best for what kind of project you
have. This was my question in the original email, not which was tool is
better. Should be fun experimenting in both. Also, thanks
(Don't know if anyone's seen the new proposals for Flex and Coldfusion
demoed at Max... essentially in a single MXML file you now write both
the client-side code _and_ the server-side code, and Flex and
Coldfusion between them sort out which code is published to where
during the compile
Yes, for sites that have a lot of UI zing - animations and effects, and
really wild transitions and layouts, well, Flex would not be the best
choice. That's why you have to decide which tool is best for what kind of
project you have.
That's what bothers me about Flex, and maybe that's where the
I find Flex far, far better than Flash for writing code. Code hinting,
the debugger, refactoring and the general environment are very good. My
current programs are all Flex ActionScript projects which have no mxml.
As Ian says, Flash is great for building vector based assets for use
with Flex.
Yes, for sites that have a lot of UI zing - animations and effects, and
really wild transitions and layouts, well, Flex would not be the best
choice. That's why you have to decide which tool is best for what kind of
project you have.
This really depends. I've used flash created animated
Having come from a background of bespoke database-driven development where
bare functionality is the primary consideration above gloss, I can say that
Flex is a breath of fresh air.
For many companies flash is dismissed as a serious contender for serious
work because as those companies know,
Meinte van't Kruis wrote:
Yes, for sites that have a lot of UI zing - animations and effects, and
really wild transitions and layouts, well, Flex would not be the best
choice. That's why you have to decide which tool is best for what kind of
project you have.
That's what bothers me about Flex,
I think it is important to remember that you can combine content generated
in flash with applications built in Flex as well. Which is part of the
reason it is often hard to tell the difference between the two.
Michael Jovel
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Flashcoders
Yes, for sites that have a lot of UI zing - animations and effects, and
really wild transitions and layouts, well, Flex would not be the best
choice. That's why you have to decide which tool is best for what kind of
project you have.
This really depends. I've used flash created animated
This is a Flash forum and everything seems to be being discussed as though
Flex is some kind of Flash killer or replacement. It isn't and Flex goes
where flash has not trod.
Flex is really complimentary to flash, not a replacement.
Exactly, well said. I don't think anyone is bashing Flash
I think it is important to remember that you can combine content generated
in flash with applications built in Flex as well. Which is part of the
reason it is often hard to tell the difference between the two.
Yup. The only downside though, is that communicating with a .swf loaded into
Flex is
MXML is a piece of crap, mixture of XML and AS code. Very bad overview and
readability.
That's an interesting take on things. For me, I believe the exact
opposite - the separation of UI/layout into MXML makes perfect sense,
and follows the model used by many other desktop application
But that's the point! They work well together! ;)
B.
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Merrill, Jason
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes, for sites that have a lot of UI zing - animations and effects,
and
really wild transitions and layouts, well, Flex would not be the best
choice. That's
Yes, that was an AWESOME demo. I've never used CF but what they showed with
the two rocked and is quite tempting to start digging into it.
I think that CF is by far the best back-end platform for Flex apps
right now, never mind what's coming down the pike. CF natively
supports AMF, includes
MXML should be used for layout as described here:
http://www.boostworthy.com/blog/?p=216
However, it's often used for spagetti coding.
The misuse of something is not an accurate measure of its value. Every
Flash programmer should know this, given that 90% of the Flash content
on the web is
Notoriously, version control systems are bad at handling
differences/resolving differences between binary files, and the .fla
format is binary.
With all due respect, and without getting in the middle of the 'war'
that is taking place here:
I code in AS3 very heavily and nearly 0% of my code
Yep - but to be honest the .fla still contains all the links to the
external assets.
Erm, Ian, all you need to reference in the FLA is ONE Class file; and
that class file can then contain ALL the references to all the
subclasses; so you never need to edit the FLA after day1 unless the
stage
Yes, too bad it runs on Java. I never been able to get that going on my
webservers under Centos/Debian. g
Yes, that was an AWESOME demo. I've never used CF but what they showed with
the two rocked and is quite tempting to start digging into it.
I think that CF is by far the best back-end
Well said.
Paul Andrews wrote:
Having come from a background of bespoke database-driven development
where bare functionality is the primary consideration above gloss, I can
say that Flex is a breath of fresh air.
For many companies flash is dismissed as a serious contender for
serious work
Yep, the v2 components are horrible.
Ian
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 7:09 PM, Weyert de Boer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am currently trying to rework a AS2 project where I currently try to move
the timeline code into classes. Now the project uses v2 components men
that's a can of worms. Terrible.
Yes, too bad it runs on Java. I never been able to get that going on my
webservers under Centos/Debian. g
If you're serious about running CF on those distros, you might find
this site helpful:
http://www.talkingtree.com/
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
Fig Leaf
I am currently trying to rework a AS2 project where I currently try to
move the timeline code into classes. Now the project uses v2 components
men that's a can of worms. Terrible.
You can better spend time writing your components for the buttons and
comboboxes then trying to fix alle the issues
Dave Watts wrote:
Yes, too bad it runs on Java. I never been able to get that going on my
webservers under Centos/Debian. g
If you're serious about running CF on those distros, you might find
this site helpful:
http://www.talkingtree.com/
Thanks! I will have a look at it. Currently, I
I wouldn't have thought there were too many AS3 developers still using
code within the .fla?
It's so easy to set up FlashDevelop to compile with the Flex SDK and
build every bit of your project through it. Of course you can then add
visual assets, timeline animations, skin your components etc in
How about Silverlight or AJAX, haven't heard any arguments for them ;-)
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Actually, Cairngorm does allow arbitrary mappings from events to commands,
it does not require 1-to-1.
The FrontController's addCommand() function takes an event name (String) and
a Command class. In our app I have used the same event with different
name-constants to run different commands, like
How about Silverlight or AJAX, haven't heard any arguments for them ;-)
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.
Jason Merrill
Bank of America Instructional Technology Media · GCIB Staff Support
LLD
Interested in Flash Platform technologies? Join the Bank of America Flash
Refersh my memory. What was the name of that AS3 class method to get a class
definition from a string? Something like getObjectByDefinition(MyClass) or
something like that, but that's not it. Our proxy server is down and I can't
Google it, and the help docs are no help.
Basically, I'm tring
Hi Ian,
While it is true that to write this code [below] in AS3 it would take
more lines of code; this is not true once you have done it 'once' and
you can then re-use your code.
For example: I made a class called 'AdvButton' which extends 'Button' a
long time ago and I re-use it in all my
So in my opinion the real advantages of Flex over Flash for
UI/data-binding is:
Sebastian,
This discussion has barely touched on databinding (just one or two mentions of
it being an advantage of the native Flash framework over Flex), so I'm starting
to wonder, have you done any databinding
Refersh my memory. What was the name of that AS3 class method to get a class
definition
from a string? Something like getObjectByDefinition(MyClass) or something
like that, but that's not it.
Our proxy server is down and I can't Google it, and the help docs are no help.
Basically, I'm
ApplicationDomain.currentDomain.getDefinition(className)
(or whatever ApplicationDomain you are using...)
(it's flash.system.ApplicationDomain)
Ian
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 9:52 PM, Merrill, Jason
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Refersh my memory. What was the name of that AS3 class method to get a
That was it! Thanks Dave!
Jason Merrill
Bank of America Instructional Technology Media · GCIB Staff Support
LLD
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Platform Developer Community
Interested in innovative ideas in Learning? Check out the
You want ApplicationDomain.getDefinition(className: String)
and also ApplicationDomain.hasDefinition(className: String) is handy.
Dave
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Merrill, Jason
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Refersh my memory. What was the name of that AS3 class method to get a
class
I see that many people can't decide wheter to use flex. I can't.
So, i think i am going to wait for Thermo. Does anyone know the release year
and month?
I hope that Thermo will really fill the gap between Flash and Flex. If it
will, i am sure to start learning Thermo.
*Pedro Damian Kostelec*
I'm sorry, I don't really buy that argument.
What it sounds like you are describing is the creation of a component.
Fine - you can do that in AS3 or MXML; or a mix of the two. Doesn't
really matter which.
Then - surely - for every project you need to stitch together your
components. Because in
Ian and David - interesting. So what is the difference between getDefinition
and getDefinitionByName?
What I ended up using was this, which works well:
var ClassReference:Class =
getDefinitionByName(people.+_associates[_associateCount]) as Class;
var instance = new ClassReference();
If I need
I hope that Thermo will really fill the gap between Flash and Flex. If it
will, i am sure to start learning Thermo.
Thermo produces MXML, which is what Flex uses (partially) to describe the
resulting .swf. So it's still helping you with Flex, and therefore, you're
going to want to learn
To be honest, I don't know - but I suspect
flash.utils.getDefinitionByName() is an alias for
ApplicationDomain.currentDomain.getDefinition(). Whereas you can also
use getDefinition() to retrieve class definitions from within other
ApplicationDomain objects - such as loaded Flex modules.
Hi Ian,
Not trying to say MXML isn't good, or that it isn't the best choice;
like I hope I stated clearly earlier, I agree with all the arguments for
why Flex is the better choice for the reasons given.
What I was trying to do, is to clarify that I felt your comparison of
code isn't really
Hi Merrill,
This discussion has barely touched on databinding (just one or two mentions of
it being an advantage of the native Flash framework over Flex), so I'm starting
to wonder, have you done any databinding in Flex? Databinding doesn't exist in
Flash CS3 or Flash CS4 frameworks, it's
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 10:49 PM, sebastian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just trying to clarify that we AS3 programmers don't code UI from scratch
either! We also use UI classes just like you do in MXML; only ours are not
'out-of-the-box'.
Okay - last comment. :-D
Just want to raise a flag to
- Original Message -
From: Pedro Kostelec [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Flex vs. Flash
I see that many people can't decide wheter to use flex. I can't.
So, i think i am
This may be considered kinda nutty but I use this to dynamically detect
Document classes in loaded .swfs.
loader.contentLoaderInfo.addEventListener(Event.INIT, onInit);
private function onInit(e:Event):void
{
addChild(loader);
contentClass =
And if you install the CF extension for FlexBuilder half your app is written
for you :-)
Breeze presentation:
http://adobe.breezecentral.com/p60842493/
Muzak
- Original Message -
From: Dave Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
Sent:
- Original Message -
From: Paul Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A lot of Flex developers hardly bother with the existing design mode in
FlexBuilder.
Paul
There's a Design mode in FlexBuilder???
:)
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That's exactly what I'm doing (and tried to discribe).
And true, Cairngorm doesn't require 1-to-1, probably should have made that
more clear :)
But if you look at the docs and samples etc.. they do advocate it that way
(well at least last time I looked into Cairngorm).
regards,
Muzak
-
Has the ugly Glow-Filter trick been replaced with anything better in CS4?
Thanks,
Elia
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