Re: [flexcoders] Flex 3.0 - What happened to letting Flex 2 bed in?
I'm psyched about what I am hearing about the next iteration. They have stated that they aren't going to be making big architectural rewrites now, but focus on stability and smaller iterative versions which makes sense. Also, note; they are just begining to talk about it now, they are not releasing it now. If they announce it formally in the spring it won't be until fall or winter at the very least until it's released (if it is small) and next year if it's big. I doubt if that decision will be made until after they field ideas, but that's somewhere between a year and a half and two and a half years, which is a long time. I think that small releases every 6-9 months would also be great if they could manage that schedule wise. They did the right thing by spending 6 months fixing bugs and getting it to work on the mac, now they need to look forward again.There is still a lot of low hanging fruit that they can add, especially with flex builder, while having folk fix problems full time. They will still need some new features to attract folk to it, but if you want folk to work on it full time, there has to be a point where we give them more money for it and new features are the most traditional way to take the sting out of that. The reason I wanted to respond to this thread is that I think this feeling of it being too soon is born from the fact that they are discussing it so early and I want to make sure that the discussing it early policy isn't discouraged by the negative feelings. Why? Because in the past with flash development if you were developing a component set and about halfway done, the chances were good that there was already a version from the mothership about to come out and make the work unnecessary. You never knew what was being developed, so you never knew what to avoid doing yourself. The important thing is for us to tell them early what we would like and for them to let us know as much as possible as early as possible what they are acting on, so that other developers can know what Adobe isn't doing so that they know what niches are open for independent work. Just my thoughts -Cort
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 3.0 - What happened to letting Flex 2 bed in?
I personally don't see a problem with it... it's not like they're releasing a new Flash Player and AVM ... just a updated/new framework that still works with Flash 9 AVM2 and other things ofcourse like SDK etc etc. People will still be able to use Flex 2 On 1/25/07, Adam Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know if anybody else has signed up for the Flex 3 beta, but does anyone else feel that Flex 3 is a little bit too close to Flex 2? I was discussing this with an editor of a PC magazine, here in the UK, and he was very surprised. I'm assuming Adobe will not be charging much for upgrades from 2 to 3 and is it really such a good idea to be going up a whole new version when Flex 2 has literally been around for months, not even years. I really would like Adobe to comment on this as this seems a bit messed up. Can they assure the community that there will be a minor charge for upgrading from 2 to 3? Adam
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 3.0 - What happened to letting Flex 2 bed in?
On Thursday 25 January 2007 10:16, Adam Reynolds wrote: I'm assuming Adobe will not be charging much for upgrades from 2 to 3 and is it really such a good idea to be going up a whole new version when Flex 2 has literally been around for months, not even years. The Flex 2 SDK is free, and I'm looking for a strong statement from Adobe that 3 will follow in the same vain. It's normal for a free upgrade to be given if a major version comes out close enough to when you purchased the older version. -- Tom Chiverton Helping to centrally build synergistic networks This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 3.0 - What happened to letting Flex 2 bed in?
Yeah, I would much prefer it if they slowed down their innovation substantially. Because I am absolutely sure that is the way microsoft looks at it. In fact I think Bruce Chizen should call Steve Balmer and say something like this. you know, as a favor to our users lets agree that we will give then at least three years between releases so we dont bum them out with too much stuff, you know this stuff *is* kinda hard dude. And Balmer would say, Sure Bruce, I know what you mean. And even though we do want to put you out of business, fair is fair. Lets agree to a two year innovation pause. That'll give both our user bases time to take a breather. And we can let our developers focus on putting someone else out of business! Yup, thats whats gonna happen! Hank On 1/25/07, Adam Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know if anybody else has signed up for the Flex 3 beta, but does anyone else feel that Flex 3 is a little bit too close to Flex 2? I was discussing this with an editor of a PC magazine, here in the UK, and he was very surprised. I'm assuming Adobe will not be charging much for upgrades from 2 to 3 and is it really such a good idea to be going up a whole new version when Flex 2 has literally been around for months, not even years. I really would like Adobe to comment on this as this seems a bit messed up. Can they assure the community that there will be a minor charge for upgrading from 2 to 3? Adam -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 3.0 - What happened to letting Flex 2 bed in?
I think 2.0.1 is an indication of what possibly went wrong. They introduced modules. 500 bugs, fix 250, and then introduce new features. WTF? and now flex 3. What I'm assuming here is developer idea overload. Flex 2 is fantastic and suddenly they realise how powerful it is, but they want to add new features, even though the old ones are buggy. Could even be a yeah we know that component is not quite right, but we re-wrote it completely, added in new functions now that we 'understand' what we can do with Flex. Is it worth fixing the issues with F2? No release the new component with F3. I have a feeling this is what is happening, and although I don't mind it, it's not 'cricket'. I am literally picking up my F2 box today. Knowing F3 Beta is about to start is a bit f'd up. If Adobe are going to start releasing a new version every 6-9 months, could they at least agree that they will patch 95% of the outstanding bugs in each version before releasing the new one. If they are not prepared to do this, can they at least provide some concessions to people that will need to upgrade F2 to F3. I'm pleased that Adobe feel that Flex needs a new major version and not a dot release. It implies they've been working hard on some new and exciting features. What I need more than anything else however is a solid stable Flex environment. I can extend Flex to my hearts content with various components as I need them. Just give me a 100% fantastic stable environment please. That is more critical than a new and exciting 'features'. Adam Tom Chiverton wrote: On Thursday 25 January 2007 10:16, Adam Reynolds wrote: I'm assuming Adobe will not be charging much for upgrades from 2 to 3 and is it really such a good idea to be going up a whole new version when Flex 2 has literally been around for months, not even years. The Flex 2 SDK is free, and I'm looking for a strong statement from Adobe that 3 will follow in the same vain. It's normal for a free upgrade to be given if a major version comes out close enough to when you purchased the older version. -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 3.0 - What happened to letting Flex 2 bed in?
On Thursday 25 January 2007 12:38, Adam Reynolds wrote: do with Flex. Is it worth fixing the issues with F2? No release the new component with F3. They might just be doing a Sun - rather than release x.6, call it 6.0 :-) -- Tom Chiverton Helping to biannually synthesize world-class e-services This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 3.0 - What happened to letting Flex 2 bed in?
Hi, Let me correct some misimpressions in this thread: A) We are not rushing out Flex 3. The Flex 3 beta has not started and is some time away. Once we have a first public alpha or beta, it will still be a logn while until we ship. What you are seeing is not about us rushing the product, it is about us becoming much more open about what is coming down the road in the future. We started this with Adobe Labs (initially Macromedia Labs) but in this cycle in the next few months you will see up open up more so folks can see the roadmap and give us feedback. B) Keep in mind, we released the first public alpha of Flash at Max in October 2005. We had a small private alpha underway for a few months before that. But we didn't ship Flex 2 until June 27 2006. Just because we are looking for testers and able to demo so features doesn't mean we are about to ship. It just means we want to give you a view of the product before it is baked so you can give us feedback (and also for your planning). From when we had our first external testers to when we shipped Flex 2 ws almost 12 months. It may not be as long this time because it is not such an major architectural change, but we are going to let the product bake and stay focused on quality. C) Flex 2 was a major architectural release. We changed the VM, the language, the framework, and the tool in fundamental and non-compatible ways. Flex 3 will not be such a release. We are now able to leverage those years of work and build on it incrementally. I think we can add a ton of value in areas like productivity, designer developer workflow, approachability, etc; but this release will not be a rewrite and will not be something each of you needs to relearn and invest heavily to migrate to. D) A key point is that we are going to be targetting the Flash 9 Player again. It has been very succussfull, it has already underdone a significant .oX release with any fixes, and we believe it is and will continue to be rock solid when Flex 3 ships. So we are not introducing change for your end customers, or a new target platform for you to consider fixing. E) We did invest heavily in Flex 2.0.X and in polishing the 2.0 release. We continue to do this and our team will release hot fixes on occasion for critical issues. Just because we are working on 3.0, doesn't mean we don't also have people supporting and doing fixes when needed on Flex 2 Hope this helps. We really hope by being more open about what is coming earlier we help you, not create all this stress in this thread :) Let me know if this addresses all your concerns. -David Adobe
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 3.0 - What happened to letting Flex 2 bed in?
I am literally picking up my F2 box today. Knowing F3 Beta is about to start is a bit f'd up. Any rumors/guesses as to when roughly we might see Flex 3? I'm getting ready to buy Flexbuilder 2 in the next month, but wonder if I should wait until the second quarter. Seems there are rumors Flash 9 IDE/Creative suite will be Q2 also - I wonder if Adobe is getting ready to try and get Flex in synch with those product cycles - would love it if they offered a Creative Suite that has Flex Builder 3, Flash 9, Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver. Jason Merrill Bank of America Learning Organizational Effectiveness
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 3.0 - What happened to letting Flex 2 bed in?
Hello, No, we are not trying to sync the schedule of Flex 3 and CS3. And the ship of Flex 3 is a ways out. We will of course have a public beta in advance, but if you are at all serious about doing work with Flex it would be crazy to wait--it is not around the corner. Please recall, from the first public Alpha at MAX 2005 it was 8 full months till we shipped Flex 2. We might go faster this time, but we haven't even done a first public release. Thanks, David From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Merrill, Jason Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:32 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 3.0 - What happened to letting Flex 2 bed in? I am literally picking up my F2 box today. Knowing F3 Beta is about to start is a bit f'd up. Any rumors/guesses as to when roughly we might see Flex 3? I'm getting ready to buy Flexbuilder 2 in the next month, but wonder if I should wait until the second quarter. Seems there are rumors Flash 9 IDE/Creative suite will be Q2 also - I wonder if Adobe is getting ready to try and get Flex in synch with those product cycles - would love it if they offered a Creative Suite that has Flex Builder 3, Flash 9, Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver. Jason Merrill Bank of America Learning Organizational Effectiveness
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 3.0 - What happened to letting Flex 2 bed in?
Thanks David and Ted - great to see Adobe so active on this list - helps puts us as ease and helps with product buy-in. Makes you all seem so less evil ;). Jason Merrill Bank of America Learning Organizational Effectiveness
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 3.0 - What happened to letting Flex 2 bed in?
I must admit I now have a warm fuzzy feeling now :) Thank you for the feedback. Merrill, Jason wrote: Thanks David and Ted - great to see Adobe so active on this list - helps puts us as ease and helps with product buy-in. Makes you all seem so less evil ;). Jason Merrill Bank of America Learning Organizational Effectiveness
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 3.0 - What happened to letting Flex 2 bed in?
I, for one, welcome our new rapid release cycle! All hail the dawn of a new millinium! joking aside, i really cannot wait for the new release. i have heard hints of the features it will add that will really speed up the development and design process and address some issues needed for mass adoption. my only concern is that upgrade pricing becomes consistent with other Adobe products. For example, Photoshop and Premiere upgrades were not as expensive as Macromedia upgrades in the past (IIRC). if the option is to upgrade sooner i hope it would leave me with some money left over for booze. an essential ingredient to long development weeks. ps please add me to the beta On 1/25/07, David Mendels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Let me correct some misimpressions in this thread: A) We are not rushing out Flex 3. The Flex 3 beta has not started and is some time away. Once we have a first public alpha or beta, it will still be a logn while until we ship. What you are seeing is not about us rushing the product, it is about us becoming much more open about what is coming down the road in the future. We started this with Adobe Labs (initially Macromedia Labs) but in this cycle in the next few months you will see up open up more so folks can see the roadmap and give us feedback. B) Keep in mind, we released the first public alpha of Flash at Max in October 2005. We had a small private alpha underway for a few months before that. But we didn't ship Flex 2 until June 27 2006. Just because we are looking for testers and able to demo so features doesn't mean we are about to ship. It just means we want to give you a view of the product before it is baked so you can give us feedback (and also for your planning). From when we had our first external testers to when we shipped Flex 2 ws almost 12 months. It may not be as long this time because it is not such an major architectural change, but we are going to let the product bake and stay focused on quality. C) Flex 2 was a major architectural release. We changed the VM, the language, the framework, and the tool in fundamental and non-compatible ways. Flex 3 will not be such a release. We are now able to leverage those years of work and build on it incrementally. I think we can add a ton of value in areas like productivity, designer developer workflow, approachability, etc; but this release will not be a rewrite and will not be something each of you needs to relearn and invest heavily to migrate to. D) A key point is that we are going to be targetting the Flash 9 Player again. It has been very succussfull, it has already underdone a significant .oX release with any fixes, and we believe it is and will continue to be rock solid when Flex 3 ships. So we are not introducing change for your end customers, or a new target platform for you to consider fixing. E) We did invest heavily in Flex 2.0.X and in polishing the 2.0 release. We continue to do this and our team will release hot fixes on occasion for critical issues. Just because we are working on 3.0, doesn't mean we don't also have people supporting and doing fixes when needed on Flex 2 Hope this helps. We really hope by being more open about what is coming earlier we help you, not create all this stress in this thread :) Let me know if this addresses all your concerns. -David Adobe -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
