Re: [Flightgear-devel] Musings on FG on Linux/Windows
Please let me be very clear about a few things. This is not about lack of praise or thanks - I'm doing weather and light mainly because I like doing it, because I like to see if I can capture the essence of a scene I see in real life in shader code. I am passionate and excited about that, and I try to share this excitement for instance in the forum. But ultimately, my gratification is that I myself can fly into the perfect sunrise. This is about being a team or not being a team, and my vision of being in a team is some amount of mutual support, not that teammates lob rocks into my path. So, for me being in the FG team implies that I consider project needs in addition to my own preferences. For instance, I spend some time explaining and summarizing devel list discussions to forum users. For instance, I try hard to accomodate a release schedule even if it clashes violently with my private schedule. I hand my stuff in via GIT merge requests, although I absolutely hate dealing with GIT and although it costs me a lot of extra time - because TorstenD convinced me that it's better for the rest of the team to see what is affected than if I package as tarball. I try to discuss what I'm doing early on so that we have the possibility to create some coherence in the project, if someone asks for feedback, I usually try to find the time to give it. So for me the team is not just a bunch of people with commit rights who work next to each other. But in return, I do expect a few modest things - common fair play in dealing with each other, and some help from the experts if needed. So, if I'm working on something, someone else is working on a similar thing, says 'Send it over, we'll merge yours in.' and I do so, and nothing comes of it after 6 months waiting, that's not a problem - we're all volunteers and schedules may not work as planned. A simple 'sorry, didn't work out' would be nice. My problem starts when the story is later told as 'I can't work with you, because you insist in doing things your way.' Because that's a lie, and has nothing to do with fair play in the team. I have no problem with criticism as such (I tend not to take it so well initially, but after sleeping over it, I usually can accept that I was wrong). I think it's a necessary, though uncomfortable, part of development. I do speak up now and then and say my piece about things I consider badly done. I usually do this after I've convinced myself that I understand the problem, i.e. after working for a week, trying alternative solutions and having found something better. I think it's common decency that if we say bad things about other's work, we should at least be sure it's justified. What is not fair play is armchair criticism which is just taking cheap potshots. Snide remarks at Nasal coding, because we know it's bad, right, regardless if any measurable evidence says otherwise. Offhand remarks about shader performance. And so on. We get to hear a really vast array of that, despite the fact that this is a devel list where people should know better. It's so cheap - it costs 10 seconds to write down a claim, it may cost a week to disprove it. And if I don't understand a problem but have the feeling something is going wrong, then I might as well ask a question rather then complaining ahead. There have been things of late for which, try as I might, I can't find a charitable explanation. For instance, I introduced a bug into the urban shader when in the aftermath of throwing the binormal out or varyings and replacing it with cross products. I didn't notice it, because it's not in my devel branch. Emilian notices it, comments on it, traces it to my work comments that he's going to send Fred a note, but doesn't tell me a thing, yet when I finally notice it, I get to hear 'You did that' immediately. I ask myself - how on earth is it in the interest of the project if the one person most likely to be able to quickly fix the bug is identified but not notified? I couldn't come up with a reasonable explanation, but I can come up with a few less charming ones. It's not my idea of teamplay. I get to hear comments like 'You can't rely on z being up in shader space' here - but when I ask how I should do it alternatively, then all I get is silence. What idea of propagating information is this? I've read my statements with regard to Windows/Linux a few times. Given that X-Plane apparently is distributed in a binary edition, the question why we don't do it doesn't seem grossly unreasonable to me. Given that I even said after being introduced to the Build Server that I take back my remark if that is the concept, there's absolutely no reason in my text I can see for ThorstenB to paint me here as a petulant user who feels entitled to prime service from a volunteer, thinks everyone involved does a bad job and is pissed because he can't get what he wants. So whatever the reason may be, that again crossed a
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Musings on FG on Linux/Windows
Am 01.12.12 14:15, schrieb Pat: Does this ring any bells? http://unprotocols.org/blog:14 Hi Pat This link .. exactly. That’s probably all what I was thinking about when I sent my thanks to the list for Thorsten (for ALL t(h)orstens at the end, anyway for all contributors, leaders, non-leaders, core developers, small developers, for the community at all). Since many weeks when I was looking to some posts here at ML such bells were ringing loud enough. I’m just a small small contributor and am in a comfortable situation with well paid work outside open source projects. I thought some of the developers here knows very well about this behaviour and should react when the bells are starting to ring for others. Someone might say this is in self-responsability, but in my experience this is only half of the truth. At the end I’m very happy to see people around here with some social skills. Me I’m just an Emo-Poster sometimes, hitting the send button too fast when I’m reading about frustration of others, I apologize for that. My dream: FlightGear should held a developer meeting once next year. This would be my all time favourite. Have there been such meetings once? -Yves -- Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel: DESIGN Expert tips on starting your parallel project right. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Musings on FG on Linux/Windows
Hi Yves, all, De : HB-GRAL flightg...@sablonier.ch Envoyé le : Dimanche 2 décembre 2012 12h12 My dream: FlightGear should held a developer meeting once next year. This would be my all time favourite. Have there been such meetings once? At least there were thoughts about doing a FG Eurodev conference ( http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18t=8337 ) after the FSWeekend. FG is a very exciting project, where everyone can find a place where he can contribute depending on his skills, interests, ... Maybe something we are lacking is a kind of roadmap, so we can have a clearer view on the future. Olivier (silent, but working!) -- Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel: DESIGN Expert tips on starting your parallel project right. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Musings on FG on Linux/Windows
The FS Weekend event has been the closest thing to a developer conference that we've had over the past few years.Our developers are dispersed across the world so any event would involve significant travel for most people. For people with day jobs, young families, or tight budgets, international travel can be a significant challenge. Everyone is in a slightly different situation though, so attending an event might be doable for enough people to make it worth while? With our size, it probably makes sense to continue to piggy back on other larger events. Another thing that might be fun to try is a group skype call or google hangout. I think you have to pay money for the high end version of skype to organize a group skype call, but google hangouts are free. If there's any interest in something like this it would be fun to try it out. I could imagine a weekly hangout to discuss issues of the week, future developments, etc. When FlightGear was first launched in the late 90's, group email was the way these things were done, but now we have more options. For a google hangout we have to deal with timezones around the world, and we'll never have a perfectly convenient time for everyone. If you've never used google hangouts before, you have to download a plugin for your browser (which is available for windows, mac, linux) and then you need a google+ account. I propose google hangouts because it's free to the end user (even though not open-source), supports all the major platforms out there (and can even run on smartphones or tablets), and as far as I know, there isn't an upper limit to the number of participants in a hangout. But if anyone is interested in something like this, let's propose a time to do a test. I think for many people they'll need to spend some time messing around getting the plugin installed, getting their mike and video to work (if they wish to show their face) :-) I got it running pretty quickly on linux, but the true test was that I got it running on a mac and a windows box (which means it can't be all that hard to get running there if I could do it.) :-) Curt. On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 7:04 AM, Olivier acom...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Yves, all, -- *De :* HB-GRAL flightg...@sablonier.ch *Envoyé le :* Dimanche 2 décembre 2012 12h12 ** My dream: FlightGear should held a developer meeting once next year. This would be my all time favourite. Have there been such meetings once? At least there were thoughts about doing a FG Eurodev conference ( http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18t=8337 ) after the FSWeekend. FG is a very exciting project, where everyone can find a place where he can contribute depending on his skills, interests, ... Maybe something we are lacking is a kind of roadmap, so we can have a clearer view on the future. Olivier (silent, but working!) -- Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel: DESIGN Expert tips on starting your parallel project right. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org -- Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel: DESIGN Expert tips on starting your parallel project right. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Musings on FG on Linux/Windows
On 12/02/2012 02:35 PM, Curtis Olson wrote: and as far as I know, there isn't an upper limit to the number of participants in a hangout. The limit is 10 according to this. https://support.google.com/plus/bin/answer.py?hl=enanswer=1216374 Hans. 0x4FD802C3.asc Description: application/pgp-keys -- Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel: DESIGN Expert tips on starting your parallel project right. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Musings on FG on Linux/Windows
On Sun, 02 Dec 2012 14:53:03 +0100 Hans Janssen handigehan...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/02/2012 02:35 PM, Curtis Olson wrote: and as far as I know, there isn't an upper limit to the number of participants in a hangout. The limit is 10 according to this. https://support.google.com/plus/bin/answer.py?hl=enanswer=1216374 Hans. ok so 10 at a time. with a waiting room on irc... and with a fast connection for video. Now I just need a camera my logitech headset working and we're good to go. -Pat -- Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel: DESIGN Expert tips on starting your parallel project right. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] YaSim Aircraft not functional
Hi everybody, is anybody else seeing this? I notice since I compiled git yesterday, that YaSim fixed wing Aircraft don't work anymore (but Helicopters and JSBSim Aircraft do). FlightGear starts until the first Frames of the scenery get displayed, then quits with a SegFault. This happens with yesterdays compile of OSG, Simgear and FlightGear using the Debian/Ubuntu download and compile script. I tried on 3 different Computers with nvidia and AMD Graphics A compile from last Saturday worked without Problem. Greetings D. Faber -- Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel: DESIGN Expert tips on starting your parallel project right. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] YaSim Aircraft not functional
Already reported. http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=953 (2012年12月02日 14:17), Detlef Faber wrote: Hi everybody, is anybody else seeing this? I notice since I compiled git yesterday, that YaSim fixed wing Aircraft don't work anymore (but Helicopters and JSBSim Aircraft do). FlightGear starts until the first Frames of the scenery get displayed, then quits with a SegFault. This happens with yesterdays compile of OSG, Simgear and FlightGear using the Debian/Ubuntu download and compile script. I tried on 3 different Computers with nvidia and AMD Graphics A compile from last Saturday worked without Problem. Greetings D. Faber -- Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel: DESIGN Expert tips on starting your parallel project right. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear release (Feb. 17 2013)
All in all, for my part it seems rather a 2.10 than a 3.0 - some of the things which I'd like to see in 3.0 are done, but the majority isn't yet. This is probably true. To get to the 3.0 goal sometime in the near future, it's probably a good idea to create a backlog of open items in the wiki and link the release plan document to that. As usual, we don't have to be perfect for a new major release number. But the new features being the reason for the new major number should work reasonably correct. I can't tell if that's the case for Rembrandt as I didn't have the time for any tests over the last 12 month or so. I'll leave this discussion open until the feature freeze on Dec., 17th to come to a decision by that date. Another decision to make is the set of aircraft to be packed into the base package. My sugestion is to keep the current set if this is going to be a 2.10 release and to reduce to just the c172 if we roll out 3.0. Greetings, Torsten -- Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel: DESIGN Expert tips on starting your parallel project right. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Musings on FG on Linux/Windows
On Sun, 2 Dec 2012 08:47:06 -0600, Curtis wrote in message CAHtsj_fx33eVFv_s_F0hzHyd=kcjp6fqlq+k2i-094dbr46...@mail.gmail.com: On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Hans Janssen handigehan...@gmail.comwrote: On 12/02/2012 02:35 PM, Curtis Olson wrote: and as far as I know, there isn't an upper limit to the number of participants in a hangout. The limit is 10 according to this. https://support.google.com/plus/bin/answer.py?hl=enanswer=1216374 Hmmm, you learn something new every day ... :-) Poking around on the skype site it looks like we can do audio-only (+ text message chat) calls with up to 100 participants for free. Maybe that's would be the thing to try first if there was interest in a weekly (?) skype call. ..I seem to remember talk of a FG voip client on multiplayer servers years back here? Dropping FG graphics for webcam video, would land us a video conference setup. ..combining these, would allow us a _real_ FG airshow online, a lot of the going to airshows, is chatting with people at these airshows, airshows _are_ after all, social events. ..meanwhile, practical ideas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigBlueButton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeSWITCH https://www.webhuddle.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmeetings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_conferencing_software http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_conferencing ..a quicker but proprietary way is use paltalk express: http://express.paltalk.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paltalk#Paltalk_Express -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel: BUILD Helping you discover the best ways to construct your parallel projects. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
