Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sea color
I did a bit of testing of my own yesterday, and I have made a few other observations as well. User feedback: I've largely come to ignore that (with few exceptions such as Vivian's performance table), because trying to make sense of it is a path into madness. Just a few examples: On my own system, Advanced Weather tends to lead to better framerates than Basic Weather for similar cloud cover. In fair weather, I'm getting 10% more, in overcast conditions sometimes even a factor 2. I have some user feedback (4 cases by now) confirming that. Heiko recently said that he previously got better framerates using Advanced, but not any more. My problem - I didn't really change anything except parameter values and such things between the two occasions. Logical conclusion: The performance of Advanced Weather can change uncorrelated with changes in the code, and it affects different users in a different way? A while ago, the user sgofferj experienced 'stutter' when running Flightgear. Vivian was kind enough to immediately blame Advanced Weather on the occasion, however the screenshots clearly showed (and sgofferj later confirmed) that he had never loaded Advanced Weather (read the story here http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=68t=15235). Logical conclusion: Advanced Weather is able to cause stutter even if the module is never loaded? So, for some it's faster and they gain a lot of performance, for some it's slower, for some it causes stutter when loaded, for others the mere presence on the harddisk causes stutter, for some it works fine... should any of this really cause action from my side? Largely, this is anecdotal evidence. 'Bare Flightgear' My testcase was France Custom Scenery with the ufo, visibility probably 50 km or so, no shaders. Removing *all* weather and just remaining stationary, I get 70 fps with a worst frame delay of pretty constant 14 ms, since 14*70 = 980 ~ 1000 this means I get very evenly spaced frames. However, just flying in a circle, my worst frame delay starts to get jumpy every 2-3 seconds, it goes to 35 - 45 ms, a bit dependent on the scenery to sky ratio. My interpretation is that I'm seeing the scene being shuffled in and out of the GPU memory - as I turn, the scene in the visual field changes, and the GPU needs to compute the changed elements, causing delayed frames. Just flying straight, the worst frame delay also changes and jumps to 45-55 ms every few seconds. After a bit of experimenting, that's probably the effect of loading and unloading of scenery tiles, objects and such like. That is to say, the bare structure of Flightgear has discontinuous workloads as well, and they cause frame durations of up to 55 ms on my systems. There are also genuine (but rare) pathologies like the first look back in the F-16 (a few seconds of frame delay...) - I guess that's particularly large texture sheets loading. 'Full Flightgear' In my favourite setting, I have weather and lightfield shaders on and a decent visibility. On the occasion, that delivers me a framerate of ~20 fps with a constant worst frame delay of 50-55 ms. Since 20 *50 = 1000, the frames come nice and like a clockwork whatever I do - scenery loading causes upward spikes to 55 ms from 50 ms, but that's all, i.e. now the GPU is slow enough to allow all CPU-related stuff to finish nicely. 'Shader impacts' Vivian always goes talking about smooth framerate, but for instance the water shader is one of the worst offenders in this department, because on my system it makes the framerate dramatically dependent on the view angle. Looking up into the sky and looking down into the sea makes a difference of a factor 4 (80 fps vs. 20 fps without lightfields, half of that with). To me, this is quite natural, as the workload of the water shader per fragment is way higher as the workload of any of the skydome-coloring codes. Baseline - you don't need Nasal to get uneven framerates, GLSL (and C++) can deliver that just fine. 'Advanced Weather and a diagnosis' Starting from the 'bare case' and running just advanced weather without lightfields, I get a framerate of 60 fps and a pretty constant worst frame delay of 50 ms. Since that is 3000 ms, the numbers don't match up and there are indeed pathologically delayed frames occurring on a regular basis. De-activating the heaviest per-frame loop (dynamics-loop-flag=0) gets me almost back to the normal case, i.e. worst frame delay goes to a pretty constant 22 (60*22 = 1320, not precisely smooth but much better) with occasional spikes to 55 (note that they've been present without weather as well - that's terrain loading). Note that this is somewhat supported by Vivian's data (although not by his words) - deactivating mentioned loop brings his standard-deviation of the frame duration down by 1/3, de-activating all per-frame loops brings the standard deviation almost down to normal. The implication is that what is causing the
Re: [Flightgear-devel] model-combined-shader
On Friday 11 May 2012 22:19:43 syd adams wrote: Hi guys, Is it just me or has the model-combined shader stopped reflecting ? Moving the model slider seems to have no effect now . Syd Hi Syd, Any specific aircraft you're refering to? I've just tested it and it works. (777-200ER and IAR80) Cheers, Emilian-- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] model-combined-shader
Is it just me or has the model-combined shader stopped reflecting ? Moving the model slider seems to have no effect now . Skydome shader on by any chance? (That would probably de-activate it). * Thorsten -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Head-up: several Rembrandt changes
I pushed several commit to the Rembrandt renderer to improve configurability. One is a breaking change that model designer should be aware of : the rembrandt related properties have been moved to a dedicated branch to tidy things a bit. So we now have : /sim/rendering/rembrandt/enabled instead of /sim/rendering/rembrandt /sim/rendering/rembrandt/use-color-for-depth instead of /sim/rendering/use-color-for-depth Shadow properties are untouched. Aircraft in the base package have been updated. Operations are now described in an XML file : Effects/default-pipeline.xml and a new option --renderer= allow to specify another. That allow me to add SSAO and bloom that are now fully XML and shaders. Tell me if I broke something Regards, -Fred http://wiki.flightgear.org/Project_Rembrandt -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The (never ending) story about Berlin-Brandenburg airport
They should scrap the new airport and just reopen Tempelhof. B. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] model-combined-shader
Oops , my mistake . I had commented out the effect for the dhc6. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Head-up: several Rembrandt changes
On 12 May 2012, at 14:37, Frederic Bouvier wrote: Tell me if I broke something All working here on Mac, with and without rembrandt enabled on Mac. BTW should there be any performance changes from this or other changes? James -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Head-up: several Rembrandt changes
On 12 May 2012, at 14:37, Frederic Bouvier wrote: Tell me if I broke something All working here on Mac, with and without rembrandt enabled on Mac. BTW should there be any performance changes from this or other changes? There are 2 more effects that result in 6 full screen passes. But these passes are done on 1/16th of the screen (1/4th resolution), so there should be minimal impact. Ambient occlusion effect can be disabled by setting /sim/rendering/rembrandt/ambient-occlusion-buffers to false. Bloom effect can be disabled by setting /sim/remdering/rembrandt/bloom-buffers to false. These 2 properties are only read at setup time. If they are set to true, during runtime, it is possible to set theses effects on and off by playing with /sim/rendering/rembrandt/ambient-occlusion (for now available in the debug menu) and /sim/rendering/rembrandt/bloom. An update to the rendering dialog would be welcome (no need to ask permission ;-) ) Both effect use a generic blur effect that could be used to implement light streaks. Left as exercise for who wants to try. Regards, -Fred PS: James, for Jenkins slave seems to be dead. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The (never ending) story about
Björn Kesten wrote: They should scrap the new airport and just reopen Tempelhof. +1 Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Random buildings improvements - phase 2
On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Renk Thorsten wrote: Since the random buildings are now in the effect system, I've run a few tests with the lightfield shaders yesterday. The good news is: It works just fine. With some help from Emilian, we've changed the buildings to make use of the mode-combined-deferred effect, to allow specular mapping (so windows are look more realistic) as well as multiple lightmaps. Unfortunately, it appears to no longer work when the lightfield shader is enabled - the buildings all lose their textures. I've had a look at the hierarchy of effects files, but can't see any obvious problem. Do you have any idea what might be going wrong? -Stuart -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Head-up: several Rembrandt changes
On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Frederic Bouvier wrote: These 2 properties are only read at setup time. If they are set to true, during runtime, it is possible to set theses effects on and off by playing with /sim/rendering/rembrandt/ambient-occlusion (for now available in the debug menu) and /sim/rendering/rembrandt/bloom. An update to the rendering dialog would be welcome (no need to ask permission ;-) ) Done. -Stuart -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
