Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later
On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 01:41:26 +0200, HB-GRAL wrote in message
4ff777a6.5070...@sablonier.ch:
Am 05.07.12 18:04, schrieb Curtis Olson:
We !!!STRONGLY!!! encourage authors to use the GPL so that we can
incorporate their work into the overall project and distribute the
work
http://git.fgx.ch/flightgear/commit/?h=nextid=b14ddd40110e271efcd1416e9bf15d48d99c3123
..this, is a _clarification_. ;o)
diff --git a/package/RedHat/flightgear.spec
b/package/RedHat/flightgear.spec index 6feac43..7c03fc1 100644
--- a/package/RedHat/flightgear.spec
+++ b/package/RedHat/flightgear.spec
@@ -6,17 +6,17 @@ Summary: The FlightGear Flight Simulator
Name: %{name}
Version: %{version}
Release: %{release}
-License: GPL
+License: GPL-2.0
..this clarification is easier to handle in courts than the popular
GPLv2-and-later, because it sets _one_ set of rules, rather than
2-or-more sets of rules.
..the one big advantage of GPLv2(.0) over GPLv3, is it allows
the FG, busybox and Linux kernel code owners to e.g. deny Ubuntu
distribution of FG, busybox and Linux kernel code until Ubuntu
stops supporting Microsoft's no-Linux-on-UEFI-boot-machines scheme.
..in fact, the GPLv2 walks away on violations, and the ban on
distribution, then comes from copyright law, and remains in place,
until _all_ copyright owners agrees to offer the violator, a
_new_ license to distribute, e.g. FG code under the GPLv2.
..if some stubborn grumpy old principled coder fails to respond
with a yes to the violators pleas of mercy, then the violator
must remove that stubborn grumpy old principled coder's code
from e.g. FG, and distribute only what the violator has been
allowed to distribute. Ditto for 2, 3 etc grumpies, who may set
their own personal conditions as they damned well please, e.g.
Peace on Earth, UEFI boot specs for all OS'es, Islamic interest
rates on mortgages, hot kinky women, or FG on the GPLv3. ;o)
..so, all we need, is e.g. an Ubuntu violation of each of FG,
busybox, Linux kernel, or any other GPLv2 copyright violation,
tip off the owners, so they can take it to the cops, and, report
it, properly, as _software_piracy_, which is _exactly_ what
GPLv2 violations, are. Cops and courts must be told so, so
they can do the right things about it.
--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.
--
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later
My last comment to this subject. I've got permission to distribute some swiss sceneries as GPL but only after asking back. Obviously I had to, as the author said first that it needs to remain Freeware.- Now that's only possible because he bent back a little. But many won't or can't do and hence we will lose stuff. As for old aircrafts etc. I think anyway only the best should be included in the standard releases.- Now, there are example planes of X-plane that use SASL with Lua scripts for instruments. In the licence they say: The instrument folder and subfolders are GPL but anything else is copyrighted. Neat and simple, we're really dragging an old lead foot! -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later
Nothing stops you from releasing that scenery under whatever license you'd like ( within the legal constraints ofourse), we just cannot include it in the official scenery. All those freeware/payware packages that are available for the commercial simulators are just that, addons. The fact that FlightGear has a central scenery and aircraft repo is really a big plus, but distributing stuff outside those repos due to licensing, different opinions or the desire to gain more credit for it, is not weird and definitely not unique. Gijs Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 00:26:48 -0700 From: scrat_h...@yahoo.com To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later My last comment to this subject. I've got permission to distribute some swiss sceneries as GPL but only after asking back. Obviously I had to, as the author said first that it needs to remain Freeware.- Now that's only possible because he bent back a little. But many won't or can't do and hence we will lose stuff. As for old aircrafts etc. I think anyway only the best should be included in the standard releases.- Now, there are example planes of X-plane that use SASL with Lua scripts for instruments. In the licence they say: The instrument folder and subfolders are GPL but anything else is copyrighted. Neat and simple, we're really dragging an old lead foot! -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later
The only one issue I can see with the GPL being used for artwork is that it precludes us from using a large body of data that is licensed on terms not compatible with the GPL. Some maps and textures are only available on other kinds of permissive licenses, that however require other restrictions like attribution of credits to the original authors, and the GPL explicitly forbids that. However this does not mean that you can't make, for example, a scenery file derived from them to be used with Flightgear or other application. You just can't have that scenery included in the default flightgear distribution, or hosted on the flighgear servers. This is because the FlightGear official policy is to only distribute GPL or GPL compatible content. Nothing would however stop a 3rd party from setting up his own server, operating for example on Creative Commons. As for original content, not derived from 3rd party licensed data, it can be released on multiple licenses at the author's discretion. GPL does NOT surrender the copyright, indeed GPL works because the copyright exists on the original item. Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 00:26:48 -0700 From: scrat_h...@yahoo.com To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later My last comment to this subject. I've got permission to distribute some swiss sceneries as GPL but only after asking back. Obviously I had to, as the author said first that it needs to remain Freeware.- Now that's only possible because he bent back a little. But many won't or can't do and hence we will lose stuff. As for old aircrafts etc. I think anyway only the best should be included in the standard releases.- Now, there are example planes of X-plane that use SASL with Lua scripts for instruments. In the licence they say: The instrument folder and subfolders are GPL but anything else is copyrighted. Neat and simple, we're really dragging an old lead foot! -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later
On Fri, 6 Jul 2012 00:26:48 -0700 (PDT), Michael wrote in message 1341559608.65675.yahoomailclas...@web140205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com: My last comment to this subject. I've got permission to distribute some swiss sceneries as GPL but only after asking back. Obviously I had to, as the author said first that it needs to remain Freeware.- ..he's _wrong_, I can help you explain the GPL to him. ..briefly, freeware is not compatible with the GPL, and the GPL is a valid commercial license, you _can_ sell GPL binaries as long as you offer the GPL sources too. Now that's only possible because he bent back a little. But many won't or can't do and hence we will lose stuff. As for old aircrafts etc. I think anyway only the best should be included in the standard releases.- .._totally_ different question from GPL or non-GPL. Now, there are example planes of X-plane that use SASL with Lua scripts for instruments. In the licence they say: The instrument folder and subfolders are GPL but anything else is copyrighted. ..that statement in X-plane's license is false, either because of a geniune mis-understanding of the GPL, or, simply intentional anti-GPL FUD. The _only_ legal teeth in the GPL, is the owner's copyrights, and copyright law enforcement, which scares Microsoft enough to spend US$ 106 Million in Q3 2003 on anti-GPL ligigation, and just US$ 5 Million on their Wintendo virus war, in the same Q3 of 2003. _Neat_ search facilities in http://groklaw.net/ ;o) Neat and simple, we're really dragging an old lead foot! ..aaaye. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later
Am 06.07.12 10:10, schrieb Gijs de Rooy: Nothing stops you from releasing that scenery under whatever license you'd like ( within the legal constraints ofourse), we just cannot include it in the official scenery. No. Official scenery can also incorporate resources with other licenses: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#GPLCompatibleLicenses In the licence they say: The instrument folder and subfolders are GPL but anything else is copyrighted. Empty phrase ... GPL doesn’t mean public domain and gpl RESPECTS all copyrights! Cheers, Yves -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later
Ok, I see, just my misunderstanding of Gijs post when I read all other posts now ... I guess one of the best explanation comes from Brandano here. Sorry for the noise, I hate to participate in another license discussion. (I hate myself for this, not you.) ;-) -Yves Am 06.07.12 21:34, schrieb HB-GRAL: Am 06.07.12 10:10, schrieb Gijs de Rooy: Nothing stops you from releasing that scenery under whatever license you'd like ( within the legal constraints ofourse), we just cannot include it in the official scenery. No. Official scenery can also incorporate resources with other licenses: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#GPLCompatibleLicenses In the licence they say: The instrument folder and subfolders are GPL but anything else is copyrighted. Empty phrase ... GPL doesn’t mean public domain and gpl RESPECTS all copyrights! Cheers, Yves -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later
Am 05.07.12 18:04, schrieb Curtis Olson: We !!!STRONGLY!!! encourage authors to use the GPL so that we can incorporate their work into the overall project and distribute the work http://git.fgx.ch/flightgear/commit/?h=nextid=b14ddd40110e271efcd1416e9bf15d48d99c3123 Cheers, Yves -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later
And Keep It Stupid Simple (tm). One license is already too many licenses. Everything on GPL only means: - less scenery and airplanes included ( wasn't there recently some photoscenery rejected because of the GPL?) - authors lose copyrights - only to find their work rebranded and sold for ex. as flightprosim etc. Having only the code on GPL and everything else as freeware...seems less narrow minded to me. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Stefan Seifert wrote: On Thursday 05 July 2012 07:50:20 Michael wrote: Everything on GPL only means: - less scenery and airplanes included ( wasn't there recently some photoscenery rejected because of the GPL?) There are already 565 airplanes to choose from in git (all licensed GPL). More than enough for me, if you ask. - authors lose copyrights You obviously don't know anything about copyright law. - only to find their work rebranded and sold for ex. as flightprosim etc. So instead, you want to have countless unusable models because their authors lost interest and they are no more compatible with the current FlightGear version and nobody being able to fix this because the license doens't permit? How exactly would this be better than having 565 airplanes already with more coming all the time? Having only the code on GPL and everything else as freeware...seems less narrow minded to me. All advanced airplane models contain code (Nasal). So you're arguing for using GPL for models as well. Ok. We !!!STRONGLY!!! encourage authors to use the GPL so that we can incorporate their work into the overall project and distribute the work from the flightgear.org web site. We believe this gives an author's work the maximum exposure and benefits the most users. (And this isn't so much due to the intrinsic nature of the GPL, but because of the consistency of everything licensed the same way and being inter-compatible from a copying and redistribution perspective.) The content authors also get a big benefit because they can incorporate or copy any other GPL components (cockpit instruments, effects, nasal code, textures/graphics, etc.) into their own work without having to worry about violating other people's license terms. We believe and embrace the open-source development model as a good way to bring the most value to the most people. I think the reality is that if content author's are 100% honest, we'd find that a lot of the people here that are arguing for a more restrictive/protective license probably haven't created a full 100% of the content they are concerned about restricting/protecting. The beautiful (and sometimes painful) truth of the GPL is that it tends to force everyone to extend the same rights and privileges they received to everyone else down stream. This is freedom. We can't always prevent mean/evil people from doing unethical or immoral things. But we can try really hard to protect our own freedom to do positive and constructive things and not let the mean/evil people take that away from us -- in order to have freedom, we have to accept a certain degree of evil -- ye cannot change the laws of physics. :-) But after having said all this, don't forget that an author's original work is their own to do with as they please. They can pick which ever license they want. They can distribute their work to different destinations under different licenses. The GPL only applies if you have included other GPL work into your own content and only if you then wish to distribute (or give/sell copies) of your work to others. The GPL is unconcerned with what you do for your own private use. Disclaimer #1: I have not had my lawyers review the content of this email for correctness, exactness, and clarity of my interpretation of the GPL. Disclaimer #2: I do not have any lawyers anyway. Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Martin Spott martin.sp...@mgras.net wrote: Hi Curt, Curtis Olson wrote: We !!!STRONGLY!!! encourage authors to use the GPL [...] except from SimGear, which is supposed to be LGPL, correct ? Yes. :-) Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 1:50 PM, Curtis Olson wrote: On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Martin Spott wrote: Hi Curt, Curtis Olson wrote: We !!!STRONGLY!!! encourage authors to use the GPL [...] except from SimGear, which is supposed to be LGPL, correct ? Yes. :-) Perhaps RMS needs to craft a DGPL (data GPL) license or CGPL (content GPL) or aircraft GPL or scenery GPL? :-) Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later
Hi is it possible to have different licences than GPL for sceneries etc.? Now that would help fight piracy, while keeping GPL for the source code. Thanks for the info Michael -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later
On 07/04/2012 11:26 AM, Michael wrote: Hi is it possible to have different licences than GPL for sceneries etc.? Now that would help fight piracy, while keeping GPL for the source code. No and no. Erik -- http://www.adalin.com - Hardware accelerated AeonWave, OpenAL for Linux -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later
On 4 July 2012 19:45, Erik Hofman e...@ehofman.com wrote: On 07/04/2012 11:26 AM, Michael wrote: Hi is it possible to have different licences than GPL for sceneries etc.? Now that would help fight piracy, while keeping GPL for the source code. No and no. Correct form my understanding. If someone is willfullly bending the spirit of a license, why would changing the license make a difference? Also all authors of the source needs to agree to accept the new license, otherwise you need to re-create that section of the work. Regards George -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later
No, I mean authors could leave as is or use any licence they want. -- But it doesn't need to be GPL. -- Sorry, GPL is ok for code but feels like a lead-foot for everything else. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later
On 07/04/2012 01:12 PM, Michael wrote: No, I mean authors could leave as is or use any licence they want. -- But it doesn't need to be GPL. -- Sorry, GPL is ok for code but feels like a lead-foot for everything else.The The only option would be a less restrictive license (which you probably don't want if I read your previous mail correctly) or maintain your own code elsewhere. Erik -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery licence for 2.8 and later
Le 04/07/2012 14:27, Erik Hofman a écrit : On 07/04/2012 01:12 PM, Michael wrote: No, I mean authors could leave as is or use any licence they want. -- But it doesn't need to be GPL. -- Sorry, GPL is ok for code but feels like a lead-foot for everything else.The The only option would be a less restrictive license (which you probably don't want if I read your previous mail correctly) or maintain your own code elsewhere. Erik +1 And Keep It Stupid Simple (tm). One license is already too many licenses. Alexis -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
