Re: [Flightgear-devel] Only to remember
gerard robin wrote: > That made me to open that topic "Only to remember", that FG version 1.0.0 is > not the past. > FG plib Version 1.00 could get profit of that lot of improvements which are > included into FG OSG for instance the new JSBSim, the key features, the > Nasal improvement, and so on... > > Why isn't it possible to make an FG 1.1 (or at least an update of the PreOSG > CVS branch) with these updates ? > Hmm, that might not be a bad idea. I got JSBSim cvs already working with 1.0. At least the new nasal and Yasim should also be included. Erik - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Only to remember
On jeudi 02 octobre 2008, Melchior FRANZ wrote: > * gerard robin -- Thursday 02 October 2008: > > I was on going to open directories on CVS for it, and i just notice > > that there is yet, an other Stampe-SV4 in it, which is not mine. > > [...] > > > AFAIK duplicate models are not whish. > > Well, I said at some time that duplicating aircraft should be avoided. > But Curt noted that he has no problem with that, so it's OK. Also, > back then, it was a special situation: your better SR71 was already > in CVS, and someone rushed his (inferior) version in, right after > he had gotten CVS write permission. This was totally pointless > and annoying. > > Considering the Stampe-SV4 case ... the version in CVS looks also > good, so I'm not sure if we should have another one. (Your livery > looks nicer ... :-) > > At *some* time we might have to decide removing aircraft from > CVS if there's a better implementation available. That sounds > nasty, but OTOH, we also decide which aircraft should go in. > > m. An other mail, which went probably to Sirius before landing here :) Yes, however, i guess that my best rule, is to avoid to commit any aircraft which could be yet there in CVS. You know that i have a lot of old models which were done some time ago ( some of them still flying with FG 9.8 ). As far as i can, i commit models whose the work on it is well advanced (which explain the delay), i don't like to give skeleton :), even if it is CVS. In spite of several announces that i did since the last year, in order to spare effort, within the community, there will be (and there is) some others Aircrafts ( which are yet there in my hangar) which will come before one of mine. The main differences are the FDM ( JSBsim on my side ), textures, cockpit. The documentation and drawing which are used are very different. Because , to me, there is no competition, only the pleasure to do, i don't mind about it. In any case, they are or will be available on my private URL. Cheers BTW: One model less, in CVS , should not be a problem now , there is so many Aircraft in it :) -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Only to remember
Melchior FRANZ wrote: > [...] All others that have > recently been cited as someone who left because of an > allegedly rough climate here AFAIK actually left because ^ I conclude this might be the central cause of the trouble you face (and bring to this group): You're simply too agnostic about what happens outside your view onto a) this project and b) social interaction. Your habit of refusing to accept the facts even if they're being explicitly told to you makes it even worse. > That "rough climate" is usually attributed to Vivian and > me. Our "problem": we call ugly hacks "ugly hacks", bad > ideas "bad ideas", spades "spades", etc. No, the ongoing problem is that you're usually - at least when you think you should be involved - unable to consider someone else having a better insight into or overview over some design decision or whatever the 'discussion' is about. Combined with your habit of considering personal attacks as an adequate means to deal with items/decisions of which _you_ think they're "ugly, bad" or whatever, this is what is driving developers away. You apparently remember the little private note that I've been sending to you some months ago. Man, you were really upset, you've even been whining publicly about my "hate mail" on this very list but it seems you were totally unable to realize that the tone in my EMail was nothing but a mirror of what you're (too) often doing to other list members. > Besides: compared to other technical mailing lists > fgfs-devel is pure hugging area. :-P Lurkers on this list consider you being immune to any sort of attacks after you've been able to stand 'flightgear-devel' for a while Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Only to remember)
gerard robin wrote: > BTW: regarding JSBSim i am trying to implement the new FDM within the FG > stable version , it should work. I just committed the CVS version of JSBSim to the 1.0 branch. It looks like the latest version of nasal is already present?.. Next step is to commit YASim from the OSG branch (after testing it). This might provide a setup for one more interim release of FlightGear 1.x if it takes too long. I leave it up to others to decide if this is necessary or not (my personal believe is that it might not be a bad thing to give the transition to OSG some more time to settle down). Erik - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Only to remember
* Jon S. Berndt -- Thursday 02 October 2008: > Dave C. is still out there, but he's really busy. Dave is a bad example, as he probably really left fgfs development because of an "incident". All others that have recently been cited as someone who left because of an allegedly rough climate here AFAIK actually left because they didn't have the time -- and said so *explicitly*. That "rough climate" is usually attributed to Vivian and me. Our "problem": we call ugly hacks "ugly hacks", bad ideas "bad ideas", spades "spades", etc. This scheme doesn't fit in the concept of the FG-Stepford Harmonists' group of three people, who prefer to seem nice in the public, while they have no problems writing private hatemails with personal attacks. Something that I don't do. But to each his own. Besides: compared to other technical mailing lists fgfs-devel is pure hugging area. :-P m. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Only to remember
* gerard robin -- Thursday 02 October 2008: > I was on going to open directories on CVS for it, and i just notice > that there is yet, an other Stampe-SV4 in it, which is not mine. [...] > AFAIK duplicate models are not whish. Well, I said at some time that duplicating aircraft should be avoided. But Curt noted that he has no problem with that, so it's OK. Also, back then, it was a special situation: your better SR71 was already in CVS, and someone rushed his (inferior) version in, right after he had gotten CVS write permission. This was totally pointless and annoying. Considering the Stampe-SV4 case ... the version in CVS looks also good, so I'm not sure if we should have another one. (Your livery looks nicer ... :-) At *some* time we might have to decide removing aircraft from CVS if there's a better implementation available. That sounds nasty, but OTOH, we also decide which aircraft should go in. m. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Only to remember
Heiko Schulz wrote: > Well, was this really the cause that the skilled developers [...] and > a lot more disappeared? You'll certainly excuse that I won't cite names here. Nevertheless I can affirm that this applies at least to some members of the former active crowd - and others in the 'corona' of this project as well. People simply don't feel like getting bitten for the stuff they're doing as a hobby :-) The sad side of this story is the fact that 'everybody' (TM) moans the slow development process but almost nobody is opposing the nuisance which is actually the cause. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Only to remember)
On vendredi 03 octobre 2008, James Turner wrote: > On 3 Oct 2008, at 11:50, gerard robin wrote: > > We (I) must be patient, and still wait a long time before to get > > within FG > > most of the OSG features, probably not before at least 2010 or 2011 > > (2 or 3 > > years delay). > > > > > > > > > > Why isn't it possible to make an FG 1.1 (or at least an update of > > the PreOSG > > CVS branch) with these updates ? > > I'd hazard a guess that this is more work that fixing the outstanding > OSG issues, which, as far as I know, are: > > - shadows > - 3D clouds > > (what have I missed? I'd love to have a definitive list - either way, > I would be very surprised if this takes until 2010!) > > Of course I'm sure there are many smaller issues, but there's also > countless improvements. Personally I don't consider either of the > above features to be a blocker for releasing an OSG version, but I > understand there's a reluctance to release a version which is seen as > a 'step back'. I'd much rather see an official '1.9' release (if OSG > is to be 2.0) to get the majority of people migrated from 1.0 to > something newer. Right now my feeling is many keen users are running > CVS versions, either self compiled or Fred's / Tat's binaries, but > everyone else is stuck with 1.0 as you noted. > > So, I'd much rather see a concerted effort to get CVS into a > releasable state, and a schedule for some 'preview' or 'beta' > releases, rather than working on back-ports. > > James > I am only an old Observer about FG ( an sometime model developper), i remember when FG was existing ( i don't remember the version) without YASim , so i dare to conclude that it takes time to do improvements. How long did it take to have FG with shadows and 3 D clouds ? ( as far i remember It was delivered in 2005. The first FG with OSG on CVS was delivered in 2006 (end of) October. So it is not crazy to say that at least 2 years (probably more) will be necessary to get all OSG features within FG. 2010 seems to you very long, it is not so long, like the past duration time from October 2006 to today. Anyhow, according to the quality of the existing FG stable Version 1.0.0 and the quality of the most recent improvement of FG CVS, which do not involve OSG integration itself, it came up to me that evident question about an FG version 1.1. We only must ask, about know how and efficiency of developers OSG versus PLIB (today not by 2010). Does that "backport" wants the same ressources than OSG progress wants ? are the same persons involved ? We must ask us, what about the next 2 years ? =>FG stable frozen with a stand by for the Super-FG_OSG version, =>or an FG stable Plib version with the new features. I hope you are right, when you say that your " feeling is many keen users are running CVS version. Surrounding me most of my friends are only using FG 1.0.0 because of the Eye Candy, since i have to implement the new model Aircraft (from CVS) , there is some limits. BTW: regarding JSBSim i am trying to implement the new FDM within the FG stable version , it should work. -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Only to remember
On jeudi 02 octobre 2008, Martin Spott wrote: > Another re-send excuse to all, who get this twice. > > Heiko Schulz wrote: > > Well, was this really the cause that the skilled developers [...] and > > a lot more disappeared? > > You'll certainly excuse that I won't cite names here. Nevertheless I > can affirm that this applies at least to some members of the former > active crowd - and others in the 'corona' of this project as well. > People simply don't feel like getting bitten for the stuff they're > doing as a hobby :-) > > The sad side of this story is the fact that 'everybody' (TM) moans the > slow development process but almost nobody is opposing the nuisance > which is actually the cause. > > Cheers, > Martin. I can explain it in a different way. FG with Openscengraph is a huge revolution, when the first FG CVS with OSG came up from Mathias in 2006 November, it was a big jump. Most of the active developper who are there, are aware with Plib they were productive and active during that long period from the "beginning" until the FG version 1.00 delivery. Openscengraph needs know how, and today only Tim is fully getting that know how. Others will be productive later on, the delay to learn. Look at the other Simulators which are using OSG, They started a long time ago, for instance http://csp.sourceforge.net/wiki/Main_Page the first screenshots are 2002 We (I) must be patient, and still wait a long time before to get within FG most of the OSG features, probably not before at least 2010 or 2011 (2 or 3 years delay). That made me to open that topic "Only to remember", that FG version 1.0.0 is not the past. FG plib Version 1.00 could get profit of that lot of improvements which are included into FG OSG for instance the new JSBSim, the key features, the Nasal improvement, and so on... Why isn't it possible to make an FG 1.1 (or at least an update of the PreOSG CVS branch) with these updates ? This will demonstrate (to the World :) ) that FG is not "freezed" , that FG continue on progress. Cheers -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Only to remember
Another re-send excuse to all, who get this twice. Heiko Schulz wrote: > Well, was this really the cause that the skilled developers [...] and > a lot more disappeared? You'll certainly excuse that I won't cite names here. Nevertheless I can affirm that this applies at least to some members of the former active crowd - and others in the 'corona' of this project as well. People simply don't feel like getting bitten for the stuff they're doing as a hobby :-) The sad side of this story is the fact that 'everybody' (TM) moans the slow development process but almost nobody is opposing the nuisance which is actually the cause. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Only to remember
> Well, was this really the cause that the skilled developers David Culp, > Mathias Fröhlich, Harald Johnsen and a lot more disappeared? > > Or maybe something more? > > Well, I better stop discussion here, and like before ( as an example > clouds textures...) trying to help as much as I can- the only thing at > least I can do Dave C. is still out there, but he's really busy. Jon - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Only to remember
Hi, > > Would you consider adding your workforce and spare time to > a project > where you monitor - while lurking on the list - that people > are getting > pissed at just for having their own opinion ? > Basically, the crowd gets what they deserve: As long as the > perpetual > [b,f]laming and false allegations on this list continue > without > meaningful objection, how do you think this project would > attract > skilled developers ? > > In fact, it's up to the participants on this list resp. > in this project > to take responsibility and to bring their share !! > > Martin. Well, was this really the cause that the skilled developers David Culp, Mathias Fröhlich, Harald Johnsen and a lot more disappeared? Or maybe something more? Well, I better stop discussion here, and like before ( as an example clouds textures...) trying to help as much as I can- the only thing at least I can do - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Only to remember
On jeudi 02 octobre 2008, Heiko Schulz wrote: > Hi > > > Hello, > > > > Working again on some old models, translated from FG 9.8 to > > FG 1.0.0 > > I couldn't resist : > > > > Homesickness,. > > remember the clouds and the shadow, > > http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/51S_LFTH.jpg > > > > -- > > Yes, indeed- the shadows were outstanding- selfshadowing aircrafts - we had > this feature before MSFS even! No it's gone- and the new shadows are only > very small progressing... > > :-( > > Nice aircraft- possible for comit to CVS? > > Regards > HHS > Hello Heiko, Yes and No :) I was on going to open directories on CVS for it, and i just notice that there is yet, an other Stampe-SV4 in it, which is not mine. May be the content of my URL gave some idea to "other" to make that nice Aircraft , I remember my first training flight with that aircraft, when i started to learn to pilot 1962 ? :) <= but i am not pilot :( i could not go on, was too expensive. As i don't want to get "again" flames from that french author :), i won't commit it. AFAIK duplicate models are not whish. My old hangar contains most of the aircraft and helicoptere which where in use in the French Air Navy ( and Navy) on Carrier and on Ground, from 1945 to 1991: Corsair, Avenger, Hellcat, Lancaster, Walrus, Aquilon, Fouga, Etandard, Crusader, Stampe, S-51, HUP, H-21C, Alouette III, HSS and so on. All of them were done some years ago , i have only to convert them to FG First FG 1.00 compatible , and then FG CVS ( i hope a full Carrier feature with JSBSim) The Helicoptere were first, only static model, we have now some of them flying ( in CVS) Regards BTW: The Aircrafts FG 1.00 compatible will be available in my URL -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Only to remember
Heiko Schulz wrote: > Yes, indeed- the shadows were outstanding- selfshadowing aircrafts - > we had this feature before MSFS even! No it's gone- and the new shadows > are only very small progressing... Would you consider adding your workforce and spare time to a project where you monitor - while lurking on the list - that people are getting pissed at just for having their own opinion ? Basically, the crowd gets what they deserve: As long as the perpetual [b,f]laming and false allegations on this list continue without meaningful objection, how do you think this project would attract skilled developers ? In fact, it's up to the participants on this list resp. in this project to take responsibility and to bring their share !! Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Only to remember
Hi > Hello, > > Working again on some old models, translated from FG 9.8 to > FG 1.0.0 > I couldn't resist : > > Homesickness,. > remember the clouds and the shadow, > http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/51S_LFTH.jpg > > -- Yes, indeed- the shadows were outstanding- selfshadowing aircrafts - we had this feature before MSFS even! No it's gone- and the new shadows are only very small progressing... :-( Nice aircraft- possible for comit to CVS? Regards HHS - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
