Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins
Most likely your personal skills at natural language are insufficient to understand Revelation in the Bible, like mine were until I spent lots of time learning. Now I can predict the current Pope Francis will eventually help create the 7 nation Islamic Caliphate with 3 extra-national military powers like Hamas in Rev. 13, 17:3. You must understand natural language well if you want to program it well. Many grad students hack out an NLP project that works at an uninspiring level. To go beyond the state of the art, you must learn to understand beyond state of the art. Claims that the world has progressed beyond some past century are true for technology but not in human behavior. People still have wars large and small. Some of the worst human behavior can be seen in courts during wars between family members, and some of that behavior comes from lawyers. Human behavior can only be improved by everyone pursuing the absolute perfection of God and his human form Jesus Christ, the Creator. We must go beyond the state of the art churches, to learn from the true church which Jesus practiced with His students, before He left and they quit doing much of what He did and taught. Because his first graduates ignored His teaching of equal status under Him instead pursuing positions over others and their money, today we have inherited that culture instead of Jesus' life where it is possible to be fed directly by God's miracles without need of money. So I propose a return from today's advanced culture to Jesus' absolute perfection. www.freetom.info.truechurch In view of the human spiritual awakening possible that way, computers are only a temporary support until we get there. Watch videos archived at www.sidroth.org some of which are lame but others are impressive showing what is happening now giving the idea the perfect culture of Jesus' church is possible. Love Absolute Truth, Kirk W. Fraser On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Steve Taylor s...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Charlie Derr wrote: Nevertheless I'm finding some of this conversation truly fascinating (though I'm having a little trouble figuring out what is truth and what isn't). I'm just waiting for Kirk to mention Atlantis or the Rosicrucians. It feels like it could be any moment... Steve __**_ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/**listinfo/fonchttp://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc -- Kirk W. Fraser http://freetom.info/TrueChurch - Replace the fraud churches with the true church. http://congressionalbiblestudy.org - Fix America by first fixing its Christian foundation. http://freetom.info - Example of False Justice common in America ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins
! Karl On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Kirk Fraser overcomer@gmail.comwrote: Most likely your personal skills at natural language are insufficient to understand Revelation in the Bible, like mine were until I spent lots of time learning. Now I can predict the current Pope Francis will eventually help create the 7 nation Islamic Caliphate with 3 extra-national military powers like Hamas in Rev. 13, 17:3. You must understand natural language well if you want to program it well. Many grad students hack out an NLP project that works at an uninspiring level. To go beyond the state of the art, you must learn to understand beyond state of the art. Claims that the world has progressed beyond some past century are true for technology but not in human behavior. People still have wars large and small. Some of the worst human behavior can be seen in courts during wars between family members, and some of that behavior comes from lawyers. Human behavior can only be improved by everyone pursuing the absolute perfection of God and his human form Jesus Christ, the Creator. We must go beyond the state of the art churches, to learn from the true church which Jesus practiced with His students, before He left and they quit doing much of what He did and taught. Because his first graduates ignored His teaching of equal status under Him instead pursuing positions over others and their money, today we have inherited that culture instead of Jesus' life where it is possible to be fed directly by God's miracles without need of money. So I propose a return from today's advanced culture to Jesus' absolute perfection. www.freetom.info.truechurch In view of the human spiritual awakening possible that way, computers are only a temporary support until we get there. Watch videos archived at www.sidroth.org some of which are lame but others are impressive showing what is happening now giving the idea the perfect culture of Jesus' church is possible. Love Absolute Truth, Kirk W. Fraser On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Steve Taylor s...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Charlie Derr wrote: Nevertheless I'm finding some of this conversation truly fascinating (though I'm having a little trouble figuring out what is truth and what isn't). I'm just waiting for Kirk to mention Atlantis or the Rosicrucians. It feels like it could be any moment... Steve __**_ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/**listinfo/fonchttp://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc -- Kirk W. Fraser http://freetom.info/TrueChurch - Replace the fraud churches with the true church. http://congressionalbiblestudy.org - Fix America by first fixing its Christian foundation. http://freetom.info - Example of False Justice common in America ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins
I once hear it said that Jesus didn't tell us to be perfect, instead he told us to mature and bear good fruit. Have you? On Apr 6, 2013 5:32 AM, Kirk Fraser overcomer@gmail.com wrote: Most likely your personal skills at natural language are insufficient to understand Revelation in the Bible, like mine were until I spent lots of time learning. Now I can predict the current Pope Francis will eventually help create the 7 nation Islamic Caliphate with 3 extra-national military powers like Hamas in Rev. 13, 17:3. You must understand natural language well if you want to program it well. Many grad students hack out an NLP project that works at an uninspiring level. To go beyond the state of the art, you must learn to understand beyond state of the art. Claims that the world has progressed beyond some past century are true for technology but not in human behavior. People still have wars large and small. Some of the worst human behavior can be seen in courts during wars between family members, and some of that behavior comes from lawyers. Human behavior can only be improved by everyone pursuing the absolute perfection of God and his human form Jesus Christ, the Creator. We must go beyond the state of the art churches, to learn from the true church which Jesus practiced with His students, before He left and they quit doing much of what He did and taught. Because his first graduates ignored His teaching of equal status under Him instead pursuing positions over others and their money, today we have inherited that culture instead of Jesus' life where it is possible to be fed directly by God's miracles without need of money. So I propose a return from today's advanced culture to Jesus' absolute perfection. www.freetom.info.truechurch In view of the human spiritual awakening possible that way, computers are only a temporary support until we get there. Watch videos archived at www.sidroth.org some of which are lame but others are impressive showing what is happening now giving the idea the perfect culture of Jesus' church is possible. Love Absolute Truth, Kirk W. Fraser On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Steve Taylor s...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Charlie Derr wrote: Nevertheless I'm finding some of this conversation truly fascinating (though I'm having a little trouble figuring out what is truth and what isn't). I'm just waiting for Kirk to mention Atlantis or the Rosicrucians. It feels like it could be any moment... Steve __**_ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/**listinfo/fonchttp://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc -- Kirk W. Fraser http://freetom.info/TrueChurch - Replace the fraud churches with the true church. http://congressionalbiblestudy.org - Fix America by first fixing its Christian foundation. http://freetom.info - Example of False Justice common in America ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins
Sorry. I meant heard. Obviously I am imperfect. I have read Foucault's Pendulum, however. Maybe we should start quoting it instead of the Bible. On Apr 6, 2013 9:36 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I once hear it said that Jesus didn't tell us to be perfect, instead he told us to mature and bear good fruit. Have you? On Apr 6, 2013 5:32 AM, Kirk Fraser overcomer@gmail.com wrote: Most likely your personal skills at natural language are insufficient to understand Revelation in the Bible, like mine were until I spent lots of time learning. Now I can predict the current Pope Francis will eventually help create the 7 nation Islamic Caliphate with 3 extra-national military powers like Hamas in Rev. 13, 17:3. You must understand natural language well if you want to program it well. Many grad students hack out an NLP project that works at an uninspiring level. To go beyond the state of the art, you must learn to understand beyond state of the art. Claims that the world has progressed beyond some past century are true for technology but not in human behavior. People still have wars large and small. Some of the worst human behavior can be seen in courts during wars between family members, and some of that behavior comes from lawyers. Human behavior can only be improved by everyone pursuing the absolute perfection of God and his human form Jesus Christ, the Creator. We must go beyond the state of the art churches, to learn from the true church which Jesus practiced with His students, before He left and they quit doing much of what He did and taught. Because his first graduates ignored His teaching of equal status under Him instead pursuing positions over others and their money, today we have inherited that culture instead of Jesus' life where it is possible to be fed directly by God's miracles without need of money. So I propose a return from today's advanced culture to Jesus' absolute perfection. www.freetom.info.truechurch In view of the human spiritual awakening possible that way, computers are only a temporary support until we get there. Watch videos archived at www.sidroth.org some of which are lame but others are impressive showing what is happening now giving the idea the perfect culture of Jesus' church is possible. Love Absolute Truth, Kirk W. Fraser On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Steve Taylor s...@ozemail.com.auwrote: Charlie Derr wrote: Nevertheless I'm finding some of this conversation truly fascinating (though I'm having a little trouble figuring out what is truth and what isn't). I'm just waiting for Kirk to mention Atlantis or the Rosicrucians. It feels like it could be any moment... Steve __**_ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/**listinfo/fonchttp://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc -- Kirk W. Fraser http://freetom.info/TrueChurch - Replace the fraud churches with the true church. http://congressionalbiblestudy.org - Fix America by first fixing its Christian foundation. http://freetom.info - Example of False Justice common in America ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins
My favorite Umberto Eco quote from Foucault's Pendulum is vous etes fou (sorry english keyboard).▲ On Apr 6, 2013 9:53 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry. I meant heard. Obviously I am imperfect. I have read Foucault's Pendulum, however. Maybe we should start quoting it instead of the Bible. On Apr 6, 2013 9:36 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I once hear it said that Jesus didn't tell us to be perfect, instead he told us to mature and bear good fruit. Have you? On Apr 6, 2013 5:32 AM, Kirk Fraser overcomer@gmail.com wrote: Most likely your personal skills at natural language are insufficient to understand Revelation in the Bible, like mine were until I spent lots of time learning. Now I can predict the current Pope Francis will eventually help create the 7 nation Islamic Caliphate with 3 extra-national military powers like Hamas in Rev. 13, 17:3. You must understand natural language well if you want to program it well. Many grad students hack out an NLP project that works at an uninspiring level. To go beyond the state of the art, you must learn to understand beyond state of the art. Claims that the world has progressed beyond some past century are true for technology but not in human behavior. People still have wars large and small. Some of the worst human behavior can be seen in courts during wars between family members, and some of that behavior comes from lawyers. Human behavior can only be improved by everyone pursuing the absolute perfection of God and his human form Jesus Christ, the Creator. We must go beyond the state of the art churches, to learn from the true church which Jesus practiced with His students, before He left and they quit doing much of what He did and taught. Because his first graduates ignored His teaching of equal status under Him instead pursuing positions over others and their money, today we have inherited that culture instead of Jesus' life where it is possible to be fed directly by God's miracles without need of money. So I propose a return from today's advanced culture to Jesus' absolute perfection. www.freetom.info.truechurch In view of the human spiritual awakening possible that way, computers are only a temporary support until we get there. Watch videos archived at www.sidroth.org some of which are lame but others are impressive showing what is happening now giving the idea the perfect culture of Jesus' church is possible. Love Absolute Truth, Kirk W. Fraser On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Steve Taylor s...@ozemail.com.auwrote: Charlie Derr wrote: Nevertheless I'm finding some of this conversation truly fascinating (though I'm having a little trouble figuring out what is truth and what isn't). I'm just waiting for Kirk to mention Atlantis or the Rosicrucians. It feels like it could be any moment... Steve __**_ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/**listinfo/fonchttp://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc -- Kirk W. Fraser http://freetom.info/TrueChurch - Replace the fraud churches with the true church. http://congressionalbiblestudy.org - Fix America by first fixing its Christian foundation. http://freetom.info - Example of False Justice common in America ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins
When I was studying Revelation in the 1980s. We thought this same scripture referred to the European Union. We also thought that Jesus had to return by 1988, because that was one generation past when the Jews returned to Israel in 1948. It seems that god has a way of overturning predictions. Some answered questions: http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/ On Apr 6, 2013 5:32 AM, Kirk Fraser overcomer@gmail.com wrote: Most likely your personal skills at natural language are insufficient to understand Revelation in the Bible, like mine were until I spent lots of time learning. Now I can predict the current Pope Francis will eventually help create the 7 nation Islamic Caliphate with 3 extra-national military powers like Hamas in Rev. 13, 17:3. You must understand natural language well if you want to program it well. Many grad students hack out an NLP project that works at an uninspiring level. To go beyond the state of the art, you must learn to understand beyond state of the art. Claims that the world has progressed beyond some past century are true for technology but not in human behavior. People still have wars large and small. Some of the worst human behavior can be seen in courts during wars between family members, and some of that behavior comes from lawyers. Human behavior can only be improved by everyone pursuing the absolute perfection of God and his human form Jesus Christ, the Creator. We must go beyond the state of the art churches, to learn from the true church which Jesus practiced with His students, before He left and they quit doing much of what He did and taught. Because his first graduates ignored His teaching of equal status under Him instead pursuing positions over others and their money, today we have inherited that culture instead of Jesus' life where it is possible to be fed directly by God's miracles without need of money. So I propose a return from today's advanced culture to Jesus' absolute perfection. www.freetom.info.truechurch In view of the human spiritual awakening possible that way, computers are only a temporary support until we get there. Watch videos archived at www.sidroth.org some of which are lame but others are impressive showing what is happening now giving the idea the perfect culture of Jesus' church is possible. Love Absolute Truth, Kirk W. Fraser On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Steve Taylor s...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Charlie Derr wrote: Nevertheless I'm finding some of this conversation truly fascinating (though I'm having a little trouble figuring out what is truth and what isn't). I'm just waiting for Kirk to mention Atlantis or the Rosicrucians. It feels like it could be any moment... Steve ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc -- Kirk W. Fraser http://freetom.info/TrueChurch - Replace the fraud churches with the true church. http://congressionalbiblestudy.org - Fix America by first fixing its Christian foundation. http://freetom.info - Example of False Justice common in America ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins
On 4/6/2013 10:59 AM, John Carlson wrote: When I was studying Revelation in the 1980s. We thought this same scripture referred to the European Union. We also thought that Jesus had to return by 1988, because that was one generation past when the Jews returned to Israel in 1948. It seems that god has a way of overturning predictions. read something recently that asserted that the prediction still held, only that the generation was 80 years rather than 40, thus putting the end-event somewhere around 2028 (with the rebuilding of the temple and tribulation and so on happening before this). it still remains to be seen how things will turn out. Some answered questions: http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/ On Apr 6, 2013 5:32 AM, Kirk Fraser overcomer@gmail.com mailto:overcomer@gmail.com wrote: Most likely your personal skills at natural language are insufficient to understand Revelation in the Bible, like mine were until I spent lots of time learning. Now I can predict the current Pope Francis will eventually help create the 7 nation Islamic Caliphate with 3 extra-national military powers like Hamas in Rev. 13, 17:3. You must understand natural language well if you want to program it well. Many grad students hack out an NLP project that works at an uninspiring level. To go beyond the state of the art, you must learn to understand beyond state of the art. Claims that the world has progressed beyond some past century are true for technology but not in human behavior. People still have wars large and small. Some of the worst human behavior can be seen in courts during wars between family members, and some of that behavior comes from lawyers. Human behavior can only be improved by everyone pursuing the absolute perfection of God and his human form Jesus Christ, the Creator. We must go beyond the state of the art churches, to learn from the true church which Jesus practiced with His students, before He left and they quit doing much of what He did and taught. Because his first graduates ignored His teaching of equal status under Him instead pursuing positions over others and their money, today we have inherited that culture instead of Jesus' life where it is possible to be fed directly by God's miracles without need of money. So I propose a return from today's advanced culture to Jesus' absolute perfection. www.freetom.info.truechurch In view of the human spiritual awakening possible that way, computers are only a temporary support until we get there. Watch videos archived at www.sidroth.org http://www.sidroth.org some of which are lame but others are impressive showing what is happening now giving the idea the perfect culture of Jesus' church is possible. Love Absolute Truth, Kirk W. Fraser On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Steve Taylor s...@ozemail.com.au mailto:s...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Charlie Derr wrote: Nevertheless I'm finding some of this conversation truly fascinating (though I'm having a little trouble figuring out what is truth and what isn't). I'm just waiting for Kirk to mention Atlantis or the Rosicrucians. It feels like it could be any moment... Steve ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org mailto:fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc -- Kirk W. Fraser http://freetom.info/TrueChurch - Replace the fraud churches with the true church. http://congressionalbiblestudy.org - Fix America by first fixing its Christian foundation. http://freetom.info - Example of False Justice common in America ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org mailto:fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins
The Lord will return like a thief in the night: http://bible.cc/1_thessalonians/5-2.htm Is this predictable? Is there more than one return? Jews believe in one Messiah. Christians believe in 2 Messiahs (Jesus and his return). Anyone for 3 or 4 or more? On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 11:12 AM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/6/2013 10:59 AM, John Carlson wrote: When I was studying Revelation in the 1980s. We thought this same scripture referred to the European Union. We also thought that Jesus had to return by 1988, because that was one generation past when the Jews returned to Israel in 1948. It seems that god has a way of overturning predictions. read something recently that asserted that the prediction still held, only that the generation was 80 years rather than 40, thus putting the end-event somewhere around 2028 (with the rebuilding of the temple and tribulation and so on happening before this). it still remains to be seen how things will turn out. Some answered questions: http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/ On Apr 6, 2013 5:32 AM, Kirk Fraser overcomer@gmail.com wrote: Most likely your personal skills at natural language are insufficient to understand Revelation in the Bible, like mine were until I spent lots of time learning. Now I can predict the current Pope Francis will eventually help create the 7 nation Islamic Caliphate with 3 extra-national military powers like Hamas in Rev. 13, 17:3. You must understand natural language well if you want to program it well. Many grad students hack out an NLP project that works at an uninspiring level. To go beyond the state of the art, you must learn to understand beyond state of the art. Claims that the world has progressed beyond some past century are true for technology but not in human behavior. People still have wars large and small. Some of the worst human behavior can be seen in courts during wars between family members, and some of that behavior comes from lawyers. Human behavior can only be improved by everyone pursuing the absolute perfection of God and his human form Jesus Christ, the Creator. We must go beyond the state of the art churches, to learn from the true church which Jesus practiced with His students, before He left and they quit doing much of what He did and taught. Because his first graduates ignored His teaching of equal status under Him instead pursuing positions over others and their money, today we have inherited that culture instead of Jesus' life where it is possible to be fed directly by God's miracles without need of money. So I propose a return from today's advanced culture to Jesus' absolute perfection. www.freetom.info.truechurch In view of the human spiritual awakening possible that way, computers are only a temporary support until we get there. Watch videos archived at www.sidroth.org some of which are lame but others are impressive showing what is happening now giving the idea the perfect culture of Jesus' church is possible. Love Absolute Truth, Kirk W. Fraser On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Steve Taylor s...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Charlie Derr wrote: Nevertheless I'm finding some of this conversation truly fascinating (though I'm having a little trouble figuring out what is truth and what isn't). I'm just waiting for Kirk to mention Atlantis or the Rosicrucians. It feels like it could be any moment... Steve ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc -- Kirk W. Fraser http://freetom.info/TrueChurch - Replace the fraud churches with the true church. http://congressionalbiblestudy.org - Fix America by first fixing its Christian foundation. http://freetom.info - Example of False Justice common in America ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing listfonc@vpri.orghttp://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins
On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 12:08:35PM -0500, John Carlson wrote: The Lord will return like a thief in the night: http://bible.cc/1_thessalonians/5-2.htm Is this predictable? Is there more than one return? Jews believe in one Messiah. Christians believe in 2 Messiahs (Jesus and his return). Anyone for 3 or 4 or more? Can the list moderator please terminate this thread? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins
And by 2028, we will be living 120 years or more, which will extend the end-event even more. On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 11:12 AM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/6/2013 10:59 AM, John Carlson wrote: When I was studying Revelation in the 1980s. We thought this same scripture referred to the European Union. We also thought that Jesus had to return by 1988, because that was one generation past when the Jews returned to Israel in 1948. It seems that god has a way of overturning predictions. read something recently that asserted that the prediction still held, only that the generation was 80 years rather than 40, thus putting the end-event somewhere around 2028 (with the rebuilding of the temple and tribulation and so on happening before this). it still remains to be seen how things will turn out. Some answered questions: http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/ On Apr 6, 2013 5:32 AM, Kirk Fraser overcomer@gmail.com wrote: Most likely your personal skills at natural language are insufficient to understand Revelation in the Bible, like mine were until I spent lots of time learning. Now I can predict the current Pope Francis will eventually help create the 7 nation Islamic Caliphate with 3 extra-national military powers like Hamas in Rev. 13, 17:3. You must understand natural language well if you want to program it well. Many grad students hack out an NLP project that works at an uninspiring level. To go beyond the state of the art, you must learn to understand beyond state of the art. Claims that the world has progressed beyond some past century are true for technology but not in human behavior. People still have wars large and small. Some of the worst human behavior can be seen in courts during wars between family members, and some of that behavior comes from lawyers. Human behavior can only be improved by everyone pursuing the absolute perfection of God and his human form Jesus Christ, the Creator. We must go beyond the state of the art churches, to learn from the true church which Jesus practiced with His students, before He left and they quit doing much of what He did and taught. Because his first graduates ignored His teaching of equal status under Him instead pursuing positions over others and their money, today we have inherited that culture instead of Jesus' life where it is possible to be fed directly by God's miracles without need of money. So I propose a return from today's advanced culture to Jesus' absolute perfection. www.freetom.info.truechurch In view of the human spiritual awakening possible that way, computers are only a temporary support until we get there. Watch videos archived at www.sidroth.org some of which are lame but others are impressive showing what is happening now giving the idea the perfect culture of Jesus' church is possible. Love Absolute Truth, Kirk W. Fraser On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Steve Taylor s...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Charlie Derr wrote: Nevertheless I'm finding some of this conversation truly fascinating (though I'm having a little trouble figuring out what is truth and what isn't). I'm just waiting for Kirk to mention Atlantis or the Rosicrucians. It feels like it could be any moment... Steve ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc -- Kirk W. Fraser http://freetom.info/TrueChurch - Replace the fraud churches with the true church. http://congressionalbiblestudy.org - Fix America by first fixing its Christian foundation. http://freetom.info - Example of False Justice common in America ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing listfonc@vpri.orghttp://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins
On 6 April 2013 18:09, Eugen Leitl eu...@leitl.org wrote: On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 12:08:35PM -0500, John Carlson wrote: The Lord will return like a thief in the night: http://bible.cc/1_thessalonians/5-2.htm Is this predictable? Is there more than one return? Jews believe in one Messiah. Christians believe in 2 Messiahs (Jesus and his return). Anyone for 3 or 4 or more? Can the list moderator please terminate this thread? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Indeed, this is a list about the Foundations of New Computing; please stay on-topic. -- http://rrt.sc3d.org ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins
On 4/6/2013 12:13 PM, Reuben Thomas wrote: On 6 April 2013 18:09, Eugen Leitl eu...@leitl.org mailto:eu...@leitl.org wrote: On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 12:08:35PM -0500, John Carlson wrote: The Lord will return like a thief in the night: http://bible.cc/1_thessalonians/5-2.htm Is this predictable? Is there more than one return? Jews believe in one Messiah. Christians believe in 2 Messiahs (Jesus and his return). Anyone for 3 or 4 or more? Can the list moderator please terminate this thread? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Indeed, this is a list about the Foundations of New Computing; please stay on-topic. yeah... it is possibly a notable property that most topics on the internet tend to diverge into a debate about religion and/or politics (regardless of the original topic in question). but, elsewhere, one can then find people into getting into inflamed debates about other things as well, including in computing: UTF-16 vs UTF-32; RGBA vs DXT; little-endian vs big-endian in file-formats; x86 vs ARM; choice of programming language; ... so, in a way, people arguing about stuff like this may be inevitable. one assertion that can be made here is that people seem to be overzealous in their choice and application of universals, often without a lot of evidence to support their choices. so, one thing ends up being true to one person and false to another, if for no other reason than differences in terms of basic assumptions, and a tendency to regard these assumptions as absolute (rather than, say, as probabilities). well, along with an excess of people making value judgements, say, rather than things being more in terms of cost/benefit or similar, ... but, sometimes it seems that regardless of ones' choice of basic assumptions, someone somewhere will still take issue with it. expecting everyone to agree on much of anything is probably unrealistic... ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins
Excuse me, but when did this list turn into a forum for religious /bible discussion? Can we get back to issues in computing, please? Thank you, Kim Rose Viewpoints Research Viewpoints Research is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to improving powerful ideas education for the world's children and advancing the state of systems research and personal computing. Please visit us online at www.vpri.org On Apr 7, 2013, at 2:08 AM, John Carlson wrote: The Lord will return like a thief in the night: http://bible.cc/1_thessalonians/5-2.htm Is this predictable? Is there more than one return? Jews believe in one Messiah. Christians believe in 2 Messiahs (Jesus and his return). Anyone for 3 or 4 or more? On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 11:12 AM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/6/2013 10:59 AM, John Carlson wrote: When I was studying Revelation in the 1980s. We thought this same scripture referred to the European Union. We also thought that Jesus had to return by 1988, because that was one generation past when the Jews returned to Israel in 1948. It seems that god has a way of overturning predictions. read something recently that asserted that the prediction still held, only that the generation was 80 years rather than 40, thus putting the end-event somewhere around 2028 (with the rebuilding of the temple and tribulation and so on happening before this). it still remains to be seen how things will turn out. Some answered questions: http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/ On Apr 6, 2013 5:32 AM, Kirk Fraser overcomer@gmail.com wrote: Most likely your personal skills at natural language are insufficient to understand Revelation in the Bible, like mine were until I spent lots of time learning. Now I can predict the current Pope Francis will eventually help create the 7 nation Islamic Caliphate with 3 extra-national military powers like Hamas in Rev. 13, 17:3. You must understand natural language well if you want to program it well. Many grad students hack out an NLP project that works at an uninspiring level. To go beyond the state of the art, you must learn to understand beyond state of the art. Claims that the world has progressed beyond some past century are true for technology but not in human behavior. People still have wars large and small. Some of the worst human behavior can be seen in courts during wars between family members, and some of that behavior comes from lawyers. Human behavior can only be improved by everyone pursuing the absolute perfection of God and his human form Jesus Christ, the Creator. We must go beyond the state of the art churches, to learn from the true church which Jesus practiced with His students, before He left and they quit doing much of what He did and taught. Because his first graduates ignored His teaching of equal status under Him instead pursuing positions over others and their money, today we have inherited that culture instead of Jesus' life where it is possible to be fed directly by God's miracles without need of money. So I propose a return from today's advanced culture to Jesus' absolute perfection. www.freetom.info.truechurch In view of the human spiritual awakening possible that way, computers are only a temporary support until we get there. Watch videos archived at www.sidroth.org some of which are lame but others are impressive showing what is happening now giving the idea the perfect culture of Jesus' church is possible. Love Absolute Truth, Kirk W. Fraser On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Steve Taylor s...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Charlie Derr wrote: Nevertheless I'm finding some of this conversation truly fascinating (though I'm having a little trouble figuring out what is truth and what isn't). I'm just waiting for Kirk to mention Atlantis or the Rosicrucians. It feels like it could be any moment... Steve ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc -- Kirk W. Fraser http://freetom.info/TrueChurch - Replace the fraud churches with the true church. http://congressionalbiblestudy.org - Fix America by first fixing its Christian foundation. http://freetom.info - Example of False Justice common in America ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 2:58 PM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote: expecting everyone to agree on much of anything is probably unrealistic... Yet there is one thing we can all agree on... that we cannot all agree on one thing. -- Fernando Cacciola SciSoft Consulting, Founder http://www.scisoft-consulting.com ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
[fonc] Layering, Thinking and Computing
Something on the recent discussion titled Natural Language Wins got me thinking: a lot of people seem to have the opinion the language a person communicates in locks them into a certain way of thinking. I'm interested in this with respect to programming languages. I've encountered numerous programmers in my life who only seem capable of thinking procedurally when it comes to programming, and yet can easily think non-procedurally in other affairs (such as using objects in their daily life, or writing maths functions). Before I learned LISP at all, a lot of people told me it'd change the way I thought, but all it really did was make me aware of another programming language which was less locked in than the others. I don't think in language. I think in visual and feeling/thought form-patterns - they're faster than language because they're smaller than language, and they come before the language rendering is formed. Perhaps I used to think in language when I only knew one language, but I don't remember doing so. This is how I program, too. I find that programming languages express the patterns I build better or worse, but I don't feel I'm hedged into a way of thinking by the language - I find the language dictates what's possible to express a lot of the time, but I don't see this as the language limiting ME, rather what I can express is limited by the language. (ie in the latter I remain limitless, in the formed, I would be limited). Same thing in natural language. For example, this paragraph is poorly expressed in english without a lot of work. [FOR ME], [easy+] [express myself] [precisely++] [in esperanto] than [in english]. (for example). In LISP, it's the same thing. LISP is perfectly precise. It's completely unambiguous. Of course, this makes it incredibly difficult to use or understand sometimes. What I wonder is, is it possible to build a series of tiny LISPs on top of each other such that we could arrive at incredibly precise and yet also incredibly concise, but [[easily able to be traversed] meanings]. This was/is the aim of the STEPS project, was it not? I continue to grapple with this idea and its implementation(s). The ramifications are that one could replace any part of the system because one could understand any part of it, but also that it would enable a learning not possible by any other means because it would be able to be inspected/introspected. Thus, using would become learning would become programming. This is one of my most passionate aims, but unfortunately daily grind work to pay the bills generally takes away from my efforts. Julian ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
