Re: [fonc] Task management in a world without apps.

2013-10-31 Thread John Carlson
Essentially a problem oriented window is what you want. In something like Lively Kernel, this becomes a problem oriented widget. On Oct 31, 2013 10:30 AM, "Casey Ransberger" wrote: > A fun, but maybe idealistic idea: an "application" of a computer should > just be what one decides to do with it

Re: [fonc] Task management in a world without apps.

2013-10-31 Thread David Barbour
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Chris Warburton wrote: > In the case of an OS, providing a dumb box to draw on is much easier > than a complete, complementary suite of MVC/Morphic/etc. components, > even though developers are forced to implement their own incompatible > integration layers, if t

Re: [fonc] Task management in a world without apps.

2013-10-31 Thread David Barbour
It can be depressing, certainly, to look at the difference between "where we are" and "where we could be, if we weren't short-sighted and greedy". OTOH, if you look at "where we are" vs. "where we were", I think you can find a lot to be optimistic about. FP and types have slowly wormed their way in

Re: [fonc] Task management in a world without apps.

2013-10-31 Thread David Barbour
Alan, I appreciate the peek into history! I had to look up Fabrik and PARTS. I love the idea of running presentations as live coding; in fact, I shall endeavor to do so for any talks I give regarding my own system. Smalltalk has a lot of good ideas, but they're sometimes mixed with not-so-great i

Re: [fonc] Task management in a world without apps.

2013-10-31 Thread David Leibs
In the spirit of equivocation when I look at the world we live in and and note the trends then I feel worse, not better. -David Leibs On Oct 31, 2013, at 11:10 AM, David Barbour wrote: > The phrase "Worse is better" involves an equivocation - the 'worse' and > 'better' properties are applied

Re: [fonc] Task management in a world without apps.

2013-10-31 Thread David Barbour
The phrase "Worse is better" involves an equivocation - the 'worse' and 'better' properties are applied in completely different domains (technical quality vs. market success). But, hate it or not, it is undeniable that "worse is better" philosophy has been historically successful. On Thu, Oct 31,

Re: [fonc] Task management in a world without apps.

2013-10-31 Thread David Leibs
Hi Chris, I get your point but I have really grown to dislike that phrase "Worse is Better". Worse is never better. Worse is always worse and worse never reduces to better under any set of natural rewrite rules. Yes there are advantages in the short term to being first to market and things tha

Re: [fonc] Task management in a world without apps.

2013-10-31 Thread Reuben Thomas
n 31 October 2013 17:37, Chris Warburton wrote: > > …many filesystems have provided metadata facilities > over the years, but these have all hit limits which end up being worked > around by storing metadata in files, making the FS unnecessarily > complex. ReiserFS, from at least version 3, impl

Re: [fonc] Task management in a world without apps.

2013-10-31 Thread Chris Warburton
Alan Kay writes: > One of the interesting misunderstandings was that Apple and then MS > didn't really understand the universal viewing mechanism (MVC) so they > thought views with borders around them were "windows" and view without > borders were part of "desktop publishing", but in fact all wer

Re: [fonc] Task management in a world without apps.

2013-10-31 Thread Alan Kay
It's worth noting that this was the scheme at PARC and was used heavily later in Etoys. This is why Smalltalk has unlimited numbers of "Projects". Each one is a persistant environment that serves both as a place to make things and as a "page" of "desktop media". There are no apps, only objec

Re: [fonc] Task management in a world without apps.

2013-10-31 Thread David Barbour
Instead of 'applications', you have objects you can manipulate (compose, decompose, rearrange, etc.) in a common environment. The state of the system, the construction of the objects, determines not only how they appear but how they behave - i.e. how they influence and observe the world. Task manag

[fonc] Task management in a world without apps.

2013-10-31 Thread Casey Ransberger
A fun, but maybe idealistic idea: an "application" of a computer should just be what one decides to do with it at the time. I've been wondering how I might best switch between "tasks" (or really things that aren't tasks too, like toys and documentaries and symphonies) in a world that does away