Re: Antwort: Web Start

[Jeremias Maerki]

I also don't think WebStart can help us here. I'd like to add a comment
here. Considerations like this are currently running hot within the ASF.
We need to divide two problems:
1. The ASF is restricted in what it can distribute. There's a policy
forming. I hope all FOP committers are subscribed to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2. Our users who download FOP expect FOP to be available under the
Apache license (v1 or v2). If we include non-Apache licensed works or if
we download such works from other places (for example using Maven) the
user also has to comply with the licenses under which the other works
are distributed. The user needs to be made aware of that. So it may not
be done with simply downloading files from other locations. AFAICT
people will start (or already have started) to discuss this problem is
it is not only FOP's problem.

I hope the above is understandable. I'm not sure I've understood
everything myself. Just summing up what I read on community@ and
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

On 19.03.2004 03:15:32 Peter B. West wrote:
> Let's say, for example, that we approach a TeX distribution with a 
> request that we be allowed to download the TeX hyphenation files, as 
> modified for use with Fop.  If they are OK with that, we generate a jar 
> file with the hyphenation files, including the original copyright (and 
> possibly notes about the conversion being done under the auspices of 
> Apache) and drop it on the CTAN servers.  Alternatively, we simply jar 
> up the original TeX files, and include a conversion process in the 
> installation.
> 
> The files are not coming from an Apache server, and they do not carry 
> the Apache license (except for perhaps a "Parts copyright..." notice). 
> It is a convenience to our users that we download such files 
> transparently from another source on installation.


Jeremias Maerki

Re: Antwort: Web Start

[Peter B. West]

Arnd,

Keeping in mind that I am utterly ignorant of a lot of these issues, and 
am tossing straws in the wind, see comments below...

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Peter,

we use Web Start in a customer project. It's a good solution to deploy 
Java applications as a JAR file, even with native code and such.

Some caveats:
-The security manager can get in your way if you want things like 
filesystem access. You have to sign your jar and each user has to accept 
your signature once per application.
If the "once per application" meant once per Fop installation, that 
would be OK.  Can the user allow us file system access once the 
signature is accepted?

- You cannot catch uncaught exceptions in JNLP applications. This is 
useful for GUI applications, so you can catch and for example log these 
exceptions. With JNLP, AWT/Swing creates its own thread group so you're 
out of luck there. Maybe not an issue for fop.
I'd have to think about the implications of this.  Drawing a blank at 
the moment.

- Only comes with JRE 1.4 by default, and older WebStart version are 
quite buggy in my experience.
This is a show stopper while we are supporting 1.3.

So far I cannot see how exactly WebStart would be useful for FOP 
regarding licensing stuff, because your "sources" for parts like 
hyphenation libs still need to be JNLP jars, so you still need someone 
to actually provide these jars and thus take responsibility regarding 
legal issues. As for as I see it, you don't gain anything.
Let's say, for example, that we approach a TeX distribution with a 
request that we be allowed to download the TeX hyphenation files, as 
modified for use with Fop.  If they are OK with that, we generate a jar 
file with the hyphenation files, including the original copyright (and 
possibly notes about the conversion being done under the auspices of 
Apache) and drop it on the CTAN servers.  Alternatively, we simply jar 
up the original TeX files, and include a conversion process in the 
installation.

The files are not coming from an Apache server, and they do not carry 
the Apache license (except for perhaps a "Parts copyright..." notice). 
It is a convenience to our users that we download such files 
transparently from another source on installation.

But if you have something more concrete in mind, please feel free ask 
more concrete WebStart questions.
Thanks Arnd.
Peter
--
Peter B. West