RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive?
This message is from the T13 list server. BTW: I think the original poster really was taking about the WD and Dell eSATA which stands for Enterprise SATA... what can I say, search the Dell and WD websites -:) WRT External SATA: 1) Can't wait until you hot remove the swap file -:) 2) That is why ATA security is totally broke with eSATA 3) That is why we have customers demand that we support disabling all USB ports or they superglue the USB ports for whiteboxes (Google: usb and superglue) Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hale Landis Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 5:49 PM To: forum@t13.org Subject: RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive? This message is from the T13 list server. Frank Shu said: I think I understand. But, how do you address the software license issue when you do so since not all software are free of use. I guess this depends on how or what the software is licensed to: a person, a CPU chip, a hard disk, a network MAC address, etc. If it was licensed to a person then it should not matter what platform the person runs the s/w on - desktop, notebook, PDA, cell phone, etc, and it should not matter if the s/w is moved from one platform to another during the life time of the license. -- Hale Landis -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive?
This message is from the T13 list server. There are standard SATA host controller interfaces available today which have the capability of reporting different port capabilities/limitations (external/internal, hot pluggability, etc...). With that understood, it should be rather straightforward to understand (through SW) what capabilities are available on a port which a device in question is connected to. Example - AHCI (http://www.intel.com/technology/serialata/ahci.htm) Regards, Brian Dees -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Shu Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 5:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; forum@t13.org Subject: RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive? This message is from the T13 list server. Some of the issues do exist today, but eSATA HDD can just make them even bigger(like security). Some of issues are controlled by OS today, for instance, you can not boot from a USB device. But, It will be absolutely unacceptable if we can't boot from a (e)SATA HDD since there is no standard way to tell which port is a internal or external SATA port on a SATA controller chip today in the spec. Frank Shu [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hale Landis Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:09 AM To: forum@t13.org Subject: RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive? This message is from the T13 list server. Frank Shu said: Furthermore, eSATA device, especially eSATA hard drive, also introducs issues like data security, boot/non-boot, authentication and licensing. The industry as a whole needs to address those issues before eSATA device can be very useful. Why is an external SATA (aka eSATA?) any different than an external USB or 1394 hard disk drive? -- Hale Landis -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive?
This message is from the T13 list server. 'eSATA' the term itself is not defined or mentioned at all in SATA Revision 2.5 (the specification). Regards, Brian Dees -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 8:37 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: forum@t13.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive? This message is from the T13 list server. Gee, when I looked in the SATA 2.5 spec, it says that 'eSATA' is 'external SATA' . . . Thank You !!! - Jim Hatfield Seagate Technology LLC e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s-mail: 389 Disc Drive; Longmont, CO 80503 USA voice: 720-684-2120 fax: 720-684-2711 == Wolford, Jeff [EMAIL PROTECTED] com To Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] forum@t13.org rg cc No Phone Info Available Subject RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal 07/20/2006 12:05 SATA-II hard drive? AM This message is from the T13 list server. BTW: I think the original poster really was taking about the WD and Dell eSATA which stands for Enterprise SATA... what can I say, search the Dell and WD websites -:) WRT External SATA: 1) Can't wait until you hot remove the swap file -:) 2) That is why ATA security is totally broke with eSATA 3) That is why we have customers demand that we support disabling all USB ports or they superglue the USB ports for whiteboxes (Google: usb and superglue) Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hale Landis Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 5:49 PM To: forum@t13.org Subject: RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive? This message is from the T13 list server. Frank Shu said: I think I understand. But, how do you address the software license issue when you do so since not all software are free of use. I guess this depends on how or what the software is licensed to: a person, a CPU chip, a hard disk, a network MAC address, etc. If it was licensed to a person then it should not matter what platform the person runs the s/w on - desktop, notebook, PDA, cell phone, etc, and it should not matter if the s/w is moved from one platform to another during the life time of the license. -- Hale Landis -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive?
This message is from the T13 list server. The issue is that to flag a SATA port as an external/internal port solely is SATA controller hardware, plus BIOS function. But, the only open spec for SATA controller is AHCI, and not all SATA controller chipset uses AHCI spec. On the other hand, SATA protocol spec is a well accepted spec by the industry, but there is no place for this. For this reason, Microsoft has submitted a white paper/proposal to SATA-IO six months ago. But, due to the lack of interests at that time, the proposal has been put on the back seat. Now, I have a system with an external SATA port on the back panel and an external 250GB SATA HDD. As a user, I'm experiencing all issues that I talked about at the beginning of this thread. Again, the industry as a whole needs to address them now. Or the usage of external SATA device(HDD)will be very limited. Thanks, Frank -Original Message- From: Dees, Brian M [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 7:46 AM To: Frank Shu; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; forum@t13.org Subject: RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive? There are standard SATA host controller interfaces available today which have the capability of reporting different port capabilities/limitations (external/internal, hot pluggability, etc...). With that understood, it should be rather straightforward to understand (through SW) what capabilities are available on a port which a device in question is connected to. Example - AHCI (http://www.intel.com/technology/serialata/ahci.htm) Regards, Brian Dees -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Shu Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 5:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; forum@t13.org Subject: RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive? This message is from the T13 list server. Some of the issues do exist today, but eSATA HDD can just make them even bigger(like security). Some of issues are controlled by OS today, for instance, you can not boot from a USB device. But, It will be absolutely unacceptable if we can't boot from a (e)SATA HDD since there is no standard way to tell which port is a internal or external SATA port on a SATA controller chip today in the spec. Frank Shu [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hale Landis Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:09 AM To: forum@t13.org Subject: RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive? This message is from the T13 list server. Frank Shu said: Furthermore, eSATA device, especially eSATA hard drive, also introducs issues like data security, boot/non-boot, authentication and licensing. The industry as a whole needs to address those issues before eSATA device can be very useful. Why is an external SATA (aka eSATA?) any different than an external USB or 1394 hard disk drive? -- Hale Landis -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive?
This message is from the T13 list server. Given that some (most) corporate IT departments want to eliminate all external storage devices (USB, 1394 and eSATA, etc) it seems that the motherboard manufacturers should think about going back to old style keyboard, mouse and printer ports and connectors so that there are no external ports that can be used by modern external storage devices. :) Hale -- ++ Hale Landis ++ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ++
Re: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive?
This message is from the T13 list server. Frank Shu wrote: The issue is that to flag a SATA port as an external/internal port solely is SATA controller hardware, plus BIOS function. But, the only open spec for SATA controller is AHCI, and not all SATA controller chipset uses AHCI spec. On the other hand, SATA protocol spec is a well accepted spec by the industry, but there is no place for this. For this reason, Microsoft has submitted a white paper/proposal to SATA-IO six months ago. But, due to the lack of interests at that time, the proposal has been put on the back seat. Now, I have a system with an external SATA port on the back panel and an external 250GB SATA HDD. As a user, I'm experiencing all issues that I talked about at the beginning of this thread. Again, the industry as a whole needs to address them now. Or the usage of external SATA device(HDD)will be very limited. I'm not sure I understand anything you have said about external/removable storage devices... Sorry... What does AHCI or not AHCI have to do with any of this? Why does a white paper/proposal for this have to be submitted to the SATA-IO secret society? Why can't everyone see the proposal? And what does T13 or SATA-IO have to do with any of this anyway? Yes, the industry needs to address the issues around how software is licensed and data security - especially in the modern age when many people are going to want to put their software and data on portable storage device so that they can have use their software and data on any system without having to carry around a stupid notebook computer. I should not have to carry around a notebook just to run my favorite email program or access my schedule file or use my favorite browser to access the internet. I should be able to plug my external/portable storage device into any system and have access to my software and my data. And please don't tell me that I should expect to use these stupid internet application sites to store/access my data. But none of this has anything to do with T13 or SATA-IO, does it? Hale -- ++ Hale Landis ++ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ++
RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive?
This message is from the T13 list server. You can indeed boot from both USB and 1394 devices. I do it all the time. Frank Shu [EMAIL PROTECTED] .microsoft.comTo Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] forum@t13.org rg cc No Phone Info Available Subject RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal 07/17/2006 06:41 SATA-II hard drive? PM This message is from the T13 list server. Some of the issues do exist today, but eSATA HDD can just make them even bigger(like security). Some of issues are controlled by OS today, for instance, you can not boot from a USB device. But, It will be absolutely unacceptable if we can't boot from a (e)SATA HDD since there is no standard way to tell which port is a internal or external SATA port on a SATA controller chip today in the spec. Frank Shu [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hale Landis Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:09 AM To: forum@t13.org Subject: RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive? This message is from the T13 list server. Frank Shu said: Furthermore, eSATA device, especially eSATA hard drive, also introducs issues like data security, boot/non-boot, authentication and licensing. The industry as a whole needs to address those issues before eSATA device can be very useful. Why is an external SATA (aka eSATA?) any different than an external USB or 1394 hard disk drive? -- Hale Landis -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive?
This message is from the T13 list server. Yup. We've been doing that for some time now. At 9:26 AM -0600 7/18/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message is from the T13 list server. You can indeed boot from both USB and 1394 devices. I do it all the time. Frank Shu [EMAIL PROTECTED] .microsoft.comTo Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] forum@t13.org rg cc No Phone Info Available Subject RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal 07/17/2006 06:41 SATA-II hard drive? PM This message is from the T13 list server. Some of the issues do exist today, but eSATA HDD can just make them even bigger(like security). Some of issues are controlled by OS today, for instance, you can not boot from a USB device. But, It will be absolutely unacceptable if we can't boot from a (e)SATA HDD since there is no standard way to tell which port is a internal or external SATA port on a SATA controller chip today in the spec. Frank Shu [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hale Landis Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:09 AM To: forum@t13.org Subject: RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive? This message is from the T13 list server. Frank Shu said: Furthermore, eSATA device, especially eSATA hard drive, also introducs issues like data security, boot/non-boot, authentication and licensing. The industry as a whole needs to address those issues before eSATA device can be very useful. Why is an external SATA (aka eSATA?) any different than an external USB or 1394 hard disk drive? -- Hale Landis -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- - I make stuff go. - Larry Barras Apple Computer Inc. 1 Infinite Loop MS: 306-2TC Cupertino, CA 95014 (408) 974-3220
RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive?
This message is from the T13 list server. Frank Shu said: I think I understand. But, how do you address the software license issue when you do so since not all software are free of use. I guess this depends on how or what the software is licensed to: a person, a CPU chip, a hard disk, a network MAC address, etc. If it was licensed to a person then it should not matter what platform the person runs the s/w on - desktop, notebook, PDA, cell phone, etc, and it should not matter if the s/w is moved from one platform to another during the life time of the license. -- Hale Landis -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive?
This message is from the T13 list server. Some of the issues do exist today, but eSATA HDD can just make them even bigger(like security). Some of issues are controlled by OS today, for instance, you can not boot from a USB device. But, It will be absolutely unacceptable if we can't boot from a (e)SATA HDD since there is no standard way to tell which port is a internal or external SATA port on a SATA controller chip today in the spec. Frank Shu [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hale Landis Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:09 AM To: forum@t13.org Subject: RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive? This message is from the T13 list server. Frank Shu said: Furthermore, eSATA device, especially eSATA hard drive, also introducs issues like data security, boot/non-boot, authentication and licensing. The industry as a whole needs to address those issues before eSATA device can be very useful. Why is an external SATA (aka eSATA?) any different than an external USB or 1394 hard disk drive? -- Hale Landis -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive?
Furthermore, eSATA device, especially eSATA hard drive, alsointroducsissues like data security, boot/non-boot, authentication and licensing. The industry as a whole needs to addressthose issuesbeforeeSATA device can be very useful. Frank, From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Mark OverbySent: Sun 7/9/2006 8:27 PMTo: bhong; forum@t13.orgSubject: RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive? External SATA has different signalling characteristics at the PHY level than a standard internal PHY. Check out the SATA 2.5 specifications, they detail the difference between i, m, and x level signalling. ESATA also has a different cable connect for external applications. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bhongSent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 7:01 PMTo: forum@t13.orgSubject: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive? Hi, Members: As to title, eSATA ia introduced in SATA-II specification, I saw there is eSATA HD in market, what's difference to normal SATA-II HDD, Maybe it has integrated the voltage swing translator? Sincerely, bhong ! This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive?
This message is from the T13 list server. Frank Shu said: Furthermore, eSATA device, especially eSATA hard drive, also introducs issues like data security, boot/non-boot, authentication and licensing. The industry as a whole needs to address those issues before eSATA device can be very useful. Why is an external SATA (aka eSATA?) any different than an external USB or 1394 hard disk drive? -- Hale Landis -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive?
From the SATA 2.5 specification: A Serial ATA device enclosure with a corresponding external connector. A buffer IC is required to interface to a Gen1i/Gen2i Serial ATA device unless the Serial ATA device is Gen1m/Gen2m compliant and designed for direct external connection. In other words, normal SATA hard drives are electrically i specification rather than m specification and are not necessarily designed to handler the higher ESD requirements for external connections. Alvin Cox Seagate Technology, LLC Tel 405-350-7424 Cell 405-206-4809 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] bhong [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] No Phone Info Available 07/09/2006 09:01 PM To forum@t13.org cc Subject [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive? Hi, Members: As to title, eSATA ia introduced in SATA-II specification, I saw there is eSATA HD in market, what's difference to normal SATA-II HDD, Maybe it has integrated the voltage swing translator? Sincerely, bhong 半 价 夏 日 特 卖，上 易 趣 !
RE: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive?
External SATA has different signalling characteristics at the PHY level than a standard internal PHY. Check out the SATA 2.5 specifications, they detail the difference between i, m, and x level signalling. ESATA also has a different cable connect for external applications. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bhongSent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 7:01 PMTo: forum@t13.orgSubject: [t13] What's the difference of eSATA Hard drive and normal SATA-II hard drive? Hi, Members: As to title, eSATA ia introduced in SATA-II specification, I saw there is eSATA HD in market, what's difference to normal SATA-II HDD, Maybe it has integrated the voltage swing translator? Sincerely, bhong 半 价 夏 日 特 卖，上 易 趣 ! This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
