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Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote:
On Wednesday 24 December 2008 18:12, Geoffrey Plourde wrote:
Well where will it stop? If we have a project, we should have a
memorial
project for all disasters.
And what, in principle, is wrong with that?
Kurt, et
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Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote:
On Wednesday 24 December 2008 19:25, Jon wrote:
I don't think it is something we should focus on. Let us focus
on our existing projects, perfect them. Reference my earlier
rationale.
Given that these are all
The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage
people around the world to collect and develop educational
content under a free license
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/en:free_content or in the public
domain, and to disseminate it effectively and globally.
The memorial
Pot, one for the victims of
Mao, one for victims of the inquisition, etc,
We would not need to mess with small time killers like Osama bin Ladin.
Fred
From: Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
I support this project, and don't think it should get pushed off
2008/12/25 Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net:
Oh, but we are, just by what we do. And the mass murders of the
twentieth
century would have made short work of us. In fact, in the last regime
controlled by them Wikipedia is blocked.
Controlled by the Soviets, who I understand were
2008/12/25 Ian A. Holton poe...@gmail.com:
I do however believe that such a project is a good idea and also
believe
that it being hosted outside of the WMF might even be benefitial and
might
even be worth an organisation itself if the scope is extended to cover
more
than just the victims
2008/12/25 Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net:
Can you and Kurt come up with a proposal that doesn't abandon our
fabulously useful and marketable air of neutrality?
Yes, good thought, I think we could. After all, it is a sort of
cemetery.
I suspect it would turn into a universal
Kurt Maxwell Weber wrote:
I fail to see how simply presenting a list of peoples' names and
telling their
stories constitutes taking partisan sides in political disputes.
It's
educating people about the impact of these events, plain and simple.
If we cannot present the personal tragedy of
Your initial announcement was fine. Continuing to spam is not.
Fred
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Basically you've just said we're going to be just like wikipdia except
we
won't let incivlity, personal attacks and other bad stuff like that
happen.
How will you stop it? Blocking? Then you're just like wikipedia.
Actually, no. Wikipedia no longer enforces civility. At least not against
I remember one time the arbitration committee sanctioned an editor who
referred to another as an imbecile and then tried to justify it on the
basis that the other editor was obviously stupid. We've come a long way
from there. Now people rise to power and maintain it on the basis of
their
I asked whether
raising the notability bar would improve the overall quality of BLPs. Do
we
have other ideas for preventative measures?
The start of a poor biography is good news coverage of some incident that
occurred to a person, their 15 minutes of fame, or infamy. Any other
information
Can I ask: does anyone reading this thread 1) think raising the
notability
threshold is a bad idea, 2) believe defaulting to deletion upon request
is a
bad idea, or 3) disagree with the notion that other Wikipedias should
shift
closer to the German Wikipedia's generally-less-permissive
2009/3/3 Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net:
With respect to biographies of living persons, unless there is
sufficient
reliable published information about a person to flesh out a well
balanced article we shouldn't have one.
The question them becomes reliable. Reliable sources usually
2009/3/3 Matthew Brown mor...@gmail.com:
I see no reason why having an article on someone need include
information not published in reliable sources. Â If they're well-known
for something in the public eye but details of their life elsewhere
are not prevalent, then that's how our article
2009/3/4 Dominic dmcde...@cox.net
Sue Gardner wrote:
I am just clarifying - default to delete unless consensus to keep
would
be
a change from current state, right?
In terms of policy, default to delete is the current state for BLPs.
To be more exact, the important bit is: If there is
should probably be independent.
Perhaps it is time a definite policy is drafted and published.
Fred Bauder
Hi!
It is totally clear that all the Wikipedias must respect and follow
some particular policies which are global for all the Wikipedias. The
question is what are these policies?
Each
/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons
Fred Bauder
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--vvv
That is a good start. Perhaps that is the page we should edit to make a
policy. Civility is implicit in The wiki process and discussion with
other editors as the final decision-making mechanism for all content.
Fred Bauder
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, or deliberate forking, would result in repudiation of a
Wikipedia.
Fred Bauder
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Is censorship looked down on by most wikis?
I presume most wikis will refuse to take down contact due to laws in
that language's main base (eg Chinese Wikipedia)?
Excellent question. I wonder about the Hebrew and the Arabic Wikipedias.
Would, or could, either resist serious pressure by the
If things were different, they would be different. Right now Wikinews can
serve as an aggregator of news first published elsewhere, but Google and
Yahoo can do it better. We can do some original work, at our own expense.
When and if the crisis affecting paper newspapers gets worse an
opportunity
necklace
(sexuality) adds little to a girl's knowledge base in comparison to the
barrier it raises to her use of the encyclopedia.
I suggest that Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not include Wikipedia is not a
manual of sexual practices. It could be phrased Wikipedia is not the
Karma Sutra.
Fred Bauder
in case this is done, fyi the spelling runs: KAMA SUTRA (not kaRma)
very best,
oscar
Just a mistake Oscar, but Karma is indeed the issue. We need to do the
right thing.
Fred
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, it doesn't belong in a general
purpose encyclopedia intended and promoted for the use of a young world
wide audience.
As to censorship, we censor and delete dictionary definitions and recipes
for God's sake; that is how Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not works.
Fred Bauder
or sometimes
imports material to Wikipedia have to do to accomplish relicensing?
Fred Bauder
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2009/5/28 David Goodman dgoodma...@gmail.com:
The solution, as with international affairs, is tolerance. In this
case, the practical aceptance of all free licenses as equivalent,
regardless of lthe licensing zealots. Free culture arose to permit
reuse, and should continue that way. We should
You know ... I can't think of a single instance in which I've ever seen
Wikipedia content reused in which the GFDL was followed. In EVERY
instance,
the attribution has either been messed up or omitted altogether.
I'm not saying this is a good thing, of course.
Newyorkbrad
As one of those
knowledge, not a place for new
ideas, which we call original research.
Fred Bauder
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When you're competing with your own fans, you're ... in trouble.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/article1027680.ece
- d.
Heh, but is there any basis whatever that the events occurring a football
game are of social or education value?
Fred
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2009/8/14 Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net:
When you're competing with your own fans, you're ... in trouble.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/article1027680.ece
Heh, but is there any basis whatever that the events occurring a
football
game are of social or education value?
Historical
Not a new topic, but I find editing about the same. Still nitwits
guarding pitiful amateur POV productions like dogs, and citing inapropos
policy as though it were holy writ.
Fred
From Slashdot article [1]:
The Guardian reports that a study by Ed H Chi demonstrates that the
character of
2009/8/16 John at Darkstar vac...@jeb.no:
I would guess that the most important reason why english wikipedia is
slowing down is because of the other language projects gets the
attention of the editors. perhaps it would be possible to get some
numbers on the total influx of content and how it
Yes, I delete pages of messages every day, and some of the posters to
Wikipedia lists are among them. They are just not worth the time it takes
to open them. They are just never part of the solution.
Fred
Exactly. If you write too many messages, you run the risk that the
majority will start to
By the way, now that you mentioned it, I have to ask. Did this little
thread happen to be canvassed on that internal-l?
No, Anthony, it wasn't discussed. This list doesn't play the central role
it once did, partially because of incessant unproductive posting by a few
people such as yourself.
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Anders Wennersten
anders.wenners...@bonetmail.com wrote:
I am for the moment active in some 15 wikimedia mailgroups. I have
compared the working on foundation-l with internal-l for instance and
find that almost the same topics are up with very much the same
Jake,
It is not an accepted practice to ban users from editing Wikipedia unless
they are actively disrupting, endangering, or otherwise harming the
project. Such bannings usually require either broad community consensus,
an action from the Arbitration Committee, or an action from Jimbo Wales.
In
Actually, I think the better argument is that pedophilia activism on
Wikipedia harms the project.
Fred
Jake,
It is not an accepted practice to ban users from editing Wikipedia unless
they are actively disrupting, endangering, or otherwise harming the
project. Such bannings usually require
If [it] brings the project in disrepute, then so be it.
André Engels, andreeng...@gmail.com
It is our responsibility to avoid harm to the project.
Fred
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appeal - someone said something that highly surprised me.
Apparently, the AC of enwiki 'endorsed' the blockade, but still you
consider an appeal realistic? I'm sorry, but I would find the chance
of honest ruling very low, nearing zero, in case if that same group of
judges first endorsed the
Fred Bauder wrote:
An appeal is not futile. For one thing the policy might be changed or
it
might be decided the policy which exists does not apply in this case.
Again, I wish to read this policy. Where is it published? And how
was it established? Did the ArbCom itself author
Laura,
It seems unlikely if only based on We have no notability requirement.
Essentially, you've forked, chosen an incompatible core policy.
Fred Bauder
This is a follow up to my proposal that Fan History Wiki join the wMF
family, based on my experiences via e-mail, on the list
Just as a point of interest, do we block people currently
incarcerated from editing?
I have a vague recollection that one of the most voluminous
contributors to the original edition of the Oxford English
Dictionary, was actually a prisoner...
Yours,
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
Certainly
In a message dated 11/29/2009 5:45:02 AM Pacific Standard Time,
fredb...@fairpoint.net writes:
But then, if Ryan could do it, anyone, including an
investigative journalist could have done it.
But you're assuming that they could then apply guilt by association
which
would throw egg on our
Some books are very productive in that way, if you have time to add each
interesting fact to the encyclopedia. TV is a bit awkward to reference,
at least routinely.
Fred
Does anyone else suffer from this problem, whereby you listen to or
watch any kind of programme and think I could add that
Does Wikipedia's principles need consensus of the community?
There is not consensus of the community, but does somebody pass if
filled out the page with Policy?
They do. A recently created policy page is only a proposal.
Fred
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.
The controversy is solved by the vote. Isn't there problem?
Yes, but within broad parameters, essentially NPOV and some democratic
method of making decisions, it is your problem.
Fred Bauder
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of business.
Fred Bauder
What's going on over at Wikiversity? Jimmy Wales has now been threatened
with a block by someone who seems to be an admin in good standing, and he
responds that he has the full support of the Wikimedia Foundation. Is
this true? What does it mean?
Wales also has said
Yes, but no need to delete endless repetitive spam from Anthony without
bothering to read it.
Bottom line, serious discussions have moved elsewhere. Progress, I guess,
discussions here never seemed to lead anywhere. Just round and round.
Fred Bauder
August 2009: 1030
September 2009: 791
, 2010 at 9:14 AM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
wrote:
Bottom line, serious discussions have moved elsewhere. Progress, I
guess,
discussions here never seemed to lead anywhere. Just round and round.
Where have the discussions moved? I assume you're talking about a
private
list? Any
is
a platform to continue a fight from another MUD. We have this on Wikinfo
regularly, ChildofMidnight being the latest.
http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/Special:Contributions/ChildofMidnight
Fred Bauder
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please see at:
http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity_open_letter_project/WMF_Board_March_2010
Signed:
User:Jon Awbrey Jon Awbrey
Among others. Talk about a red flag!
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image that used to illustrate Pearl necklace (sexuality) comes to mind.
I have always objected to offensive images (such as of Muhammad) and know
that somewhere there is a sane dividing line between the informative and
the prurient.
Fred Bauder
As some of you may know, Jimbo has recently used
/wikipedia-child-porn-larry-sanger-fbi/
Erik Möller is particularly unfair.
Fred Bauder
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Catholics don't matter, but they do). Much better to use a
photo of the woman using a dildo or at least an eye-witness report
published in a reliable source. The image could, of course, be used
appropriately to illustrate an article on caricatures or something about
anti-catholicism.
Fred Bauder
Note however, We were about to be smeared in all media as hosting
hardcore pornography with zero educational value and doing nothing about
it.
Fred Bauder
Further, Mr. Wales:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJimbo_Walesaction=historysubmitdiff=38935852oldid=38935659
to be available to. We have no power to resolve the cultural
differences. We can only be aware and make decisions accordingly.
Fred Bauder
H...
The vast majority of that material is entirely uncontroversial, but the
projects do contain material that may be inappropriate or offensive to
some
.
Those will special interests should have no difficulty creating
specialized reference resources. Certainly those who are into pornography
have.
Fred Bauder
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2010/5/8 Anthony wikim...@inbox.org:
I dunno, when framed that way it seems the answer is to be
family-friendly,
and to let the specialists get their information in specialist
resources.
So... are we now going to start writting USfamilyfriendlypedia(tm) ?
There is plenty of stuff to be
Fox News (or at least this reporter and her editors) have dedicated
themselves to damaging Wikipedia and the Wikimedia projects. This is a
given, and it is evident from their behavior. *Any* followup story would
have demonstrated what these days in the U.S. we are calling epistemic
closure
-is-both-intelligent-and-necessary-1.265853
Fred Bauder
There was the I/P ArbCom decision here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#Remedies
that implemented a host of discretionary sanctions.
My personal opinion is that there has been
With wikipedia, any expert could reach and teach millions of persons. In
ten or twenty years, every literate person with internet access could
use an interdisciplinary, edge-cutting database of knowledge for their
diary reasoning.
The knowledge and understanding of mankind could make giant
in the U.K.
--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, B.Sc.
Fred Bauder
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http://ace.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Marit_Pola:Lhi_gamba_peukabeh_Nabi_Muhammad_sawaction=history
Fred Bauder
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with images of a man whose appearance is
unknown, and unknowable.
Fred Bauder
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images is a big problem,
not a tiny little problem that can be brushed under the rug. You're doing
something that outrages millions of people and saying, Hey, tough. And
you don't possess, and will never possess, an authentic image of
Muhammad.
You don't listen.
Fred Bauder
to millions of people. They should
have common sense and not put images up in a reference work which are
both offensive and false.
There might be an exception for Persian art, but such images certainly
don't belong in an article on Muhammad or Islam in any language.
Fred Bauder
On 07/17/2010 04:39 AM, Fred Bauder wrote:
First: There are no authentic images of Mohammad extant.
There are no authentic images of most characters from the Bible. Yet I
believe at least 1 % of works of art on Commons contain them.
--vvv
There is a difference between using an image
On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
wrote:
...
That's the issue. Displaying offensive religious images is a big
problem,
not a tiny little problem that can be brushed under the rug. You're
doing
something that outrages millions of people and saying, Hey
.
Fred Bauder
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of it, no real harm is done is there are images of
Muhammad Why doesn't the same reasoning apply to the butt plugs? No real
harm would be done. Or would there?
Fred Bauder
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of Islam.)
- d.
Well, we should not bow before noise and violence. However, there is a
substantial body of Muslim public opinion that holds this view today.
Fred Bauder
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You are arguing in the wrong place. A very large debate has already
taken place on this issue and consensus has been reached. Nothing you
can say on this mailing list will impact that. If you really think you
have something new to bring to the debate the correct place to raise
the matter
Under the Border Control philosophy Larry Sanger, to say nothing of
others, would have banned me years ago. I've done plenty of work, in
fact, most of the work I've done here, since then.
Fred Bauder
Dear colleagues,
I personally think that this Russian Wikiversity story is primarily
We need to set up a regular mechanism which analyzes and searches for
errors. Please see
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Error_management
We need to make a science of it, Wikipedia:Error_management
Fred
Gerard writes: The trouble is that attempts to make something that
From: Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Organization on Wikipedia that deals with
content issues.
We need to set up a regular mechanism which analyzes
Actually, we could routinely use twitter more, asking for input. With the
right searchable keywords we might regularly attract both help with the
specific problem and new editors. That could become a regular routine.
Obviously asking for help in such a forum could also attract cranks and
axe
If I understood well, Americans don't have such bad feelings toward
the word bureaucracy and its derivatives.
Wrong, the study of bureaucracy is considered by Americans to be a branch
of entomology, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizational_studies
Yes, it's hard to collaborate; that's
I would however suggest that a good psychological profile question might
be, Have you ever worked on a government contract before?
W
Early on, I was in the Navy. Ignore all rules is enshrined in There is
the right way, the wrong way, and the Navy way which tells you to get it
done, rules
- Original Message -
From: Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
To: fredb...@fairpoint.net; Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] How bureaucracy works: the example
[...]
by Wikipedia in a conceptually similar fashion. If you
think he actually believes Liu Xiaobo is a criminal deviant, I think
you missed the point.
Nathan
Well, do we actually prevent some viewpoint from being expressed adequately?
How about a list?
Fred Bauder
Well, do we actually prevent some viewpoint from being expressed
adequately?
How about a list?
Fred Bauder
I have a better idea.
Peter is simply too offensive at times to be an unmoderated list
participant.
No further discussion is needed...
Well, it's not a promising start, but I
I want to get something clear here, however: Is Liu Xiaobo a Wikimedia
user and is it possible that he has been banned from zh.wikipedia? If
so, that is something legitimate to discuss here and continue this
thread. Certainly people of his stature have participated with editing
Wikipedia
Ðана Saturday 09 October 2010 01:46:43 Fred Bauder напиÑа:
Well, do we actually prevent some viewpoint from being expressed
adequately?
How about a list?
Well, it's not a promising start, but I have, for example heard a few
complaints that the views of Lyndon LaRouche were
At
http://www.freelancer.com/projects/Internet-Marketing-Link-Building/Thirty-news-site-comments-with.html
Status: Open
Selected Providers: -
Budget: $30-$250 USD
Created: 10/13/2010 at 12:36 MDT
Bid Count: 0
Average Bid:
-
Ends: 10/17/2010 at 12:36 MDT (1d 19h left)
Project Creator:
Delightful piece about the Tamil Wikipedia:
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Aapka-Apna-Wikipedia/698406
Fred
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A serious analysis of Conservapedia:
http://www.yalelawtech.org/wikipedia/conservative-collaboration-and-the-wikipedia-model/
Fred
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This list is for people who support the project, not those who are
actively opposing it or criticizing in public forums in exaggerated ways.
Nothing constructive or helpful is likely to be added by thekohster, and
if Peter contributes something interesting and helpful it can be
approved.
Fred
by providing a platform for Kohs campaign,
as illustrated at
http://www.mywikibiz.com/Top_10_Reasons_Not_to_Donate_to_Wikipedia
against Wikipedia.
Fred Bauder
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Funny how Peter's blog complaining about moderation is itself moderated
by Peter.
Ryan Kaldari
That is not significant. The kind of stuff random vandals post has to be
moderated. The question is whether sharp criticism is approved for
posting.
Fred
From RT:
http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-10-18/russian-police-probe-wikipedia.html
Fred
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This time from Microsoft Research:
http://blog.wikimedia.org/blog/2010/10/18/wikibhasha/
Has anyone used this one? How is it?
Did Google ever commit to releasing the translation pairs? If so, we
should certainly ask Microsoft for the same.
- d.
I'm trying to make it work as a gadget.
talk, which is exaggerated and in my
opinion unfair.
Fred
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Fred Bauder
fredb...@fairpoint.netwrote:
Peter Damian, it turns out has a blog, Beyond Necessity and has
commented on our banning and moderating activities:
http://ocham.blogspot.com/2010/10/free
, or defended.
Fred
On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 11:50 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
wrote:
This list is for people who support the project, not those who are
actively opposing it or criticizing in public forums in exaggerated
ways.
Nothing constructive or helpful is likely to be added
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org
wrote:
And that's just one of many sections erroneously blaming the WMF for
content issues. For example, A WikiProject of topic lists has existed
since November 2007, but it is still half unfinished and the 100
articles
A longer piece about this:
http://www.mn.ru/society/20101019/188137566.html
--
John Vandenberg
And it contains the conflation of Wikipedia with WikiLeaks, to boot.
Fred
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To what use are you talking about, Gerard; groupthink-l?
Marc Riddell
This is a public list for discussion of matters which concern and affect
the Wikimedia Foundation. It is open to supporters and critics of our
projects; to novices and old hands.
Fred
Whatever happened to freedom of speech? Encyclopedia Dramatica is a
parody site. Plenty of people have tried to shut them down before,
it's unlikely to ever happen (and in my opinion, should never happen).
If they have an offensive article about you, trying to get rid of it
will probably make
Kohs
will
likely return with sockpuppets on the mailing list. He is relentless
when
prodded.)
H.N.
Yes, but he is relentless when not prodded. Unless we chose to open up
Wikipedia to paid editing of the sort he does he will probably continue
to be relentless.
When I was checking out
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