Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-21 Thread Mike Godwin
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 6:35 PM, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com wrote: If the answer to one is yes, then These things happen is an explanation but not an excuse, and should be a prompt to help us all get better at detecting that.  These things do happen, but should not.  These things

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-21 Thread Mike Godwin
I should add a response on this point: On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 6:35 PM, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com wrote: The post-facto probability of 1.0 that the researcher was in fact professional, credible, and by all accounts right does not mean that a priori he should automatically have

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-21 Thread Mike Godwin
occurred. At minimum, the Haymarket article ought to edited to accommodate a well-documented minority scholarly analysis -- surely we agree about that. Is it possible that you being Mike Godwin is leading to a selection bias, where a large fraction of the actual experts with actual problems

Re: [Foundation-l] foundation-l Digest, Vol 95, Issue 73

2012-02-20 Thread Mike Godwin
Fred Bauder writes: We're talking past one another. It is obvious to me that the author of the Chronicle article should have been able to add his research without difficulty, at least after it was published. You're right, Fred. We actually were talking past each other, and primary blame for

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-19 Thread Mike Godwin
Jussi-ville writes: The policy, misused in the course of POV struggle, is a way of excluding information with interferes with presentation of a desired point of view. I think you are being way too generous. ... Let me repeat in more concise form. The policy was written to enable serious

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-19 Thread Mike Godwin
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 3:57 AM, Mike Christie coldchr...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps the policies can be improved, but they are written to stop bad editing rather than to encourage good editing.  I don't think that can be changed.  It's impossible to legislate good judgement, and it's judgement

Re: [Foundation-l] The 'Undue Weight' of Truth on Wikipedia (from the Chronicle) + some citation discussions

2012-02-19 Thread Mike Godwin
Fred Bauder writes: I think it probably seems to climate change deniers that excluding political opinions from science-based articles on global warming is a violation of neutral point of view, and of basic fairness. That is just one example, but there are other similar situations. This

Re: [Foundation-l] My public aplogies to Jan-Bart (was Movement roles letter, Feb 2012)

2012-02-18 Thread Mike Godwin
JADP, but there's no keyboard-related reason for people to misspell my last name as Goodwin, which is something I've encountered my whole life. My view is that it's normally best to tolerate the misspelling, unless there's some particular reason I want to ensure that my surname is spelled

Re: [Foundation-l] We are the media, and so are you Jimmy Wales and Kat Walsh OpEd in Washington Post

2012-02-09 Thread Mike Godwin
seems to make in that very piece. the point you believe is so revelatory and breathtakingly iconoclastic. Maybe you would find the piece interesting if you gave it another read. --Mike Godwin ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l

Re: [Foundation-l] Politico: Wikimedia foundation hires lobbyists on sopa, pipa

2012-01-22 Thread Mike Godwin
hit me with a [citation needed] here, and I confess that what I'm telling probably is best classified as original research. But don't take my word for it -- talk to other NGOs that work in the Washington policy community, and you'll find plenty of confirmation of what I'm telling you here. --Mike

Re: [Foundation-l] Politico: Wikimedia foundation hires lobbyists on sopa, pipa

2012-01-22 Thread Mike Godwin
On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 2:36 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: There's a massive selection bias there! Of course the NGOs that do lots of lobbying think lobbying is a great idea, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. Not only that, but of course people who eat food and drink

Re: [Foundation-l] Politico: Wikimedia foundation hires lobbyists on sopa, pipa

2012-01-22 Thread Mike Godwin
On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: Mike, I completely understand your point on this and where you are coming from. But you made a conflicting point yourself text omitted But as I saw it, we already made our voice heard? When we blacked out Wikipedia for

Re: [Foundation-l] Politico: Wikimedia foundation hires lobbyists on sopa, pipa

2012-01-22 Thread Mike Godwin
On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: I disagree - the null hypothesis is that the gain from lobbying isn't worth the cost, not that the gain is zero. (Cost includes far more than just monetary cost, of course.) Ah, then the proper experiment would have

Re: [Foundation-l] Politico: Wikimedia foundation hires lobbyists on sopa, pipa

2012-01-22 Thread Mike Godwin
Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com writes: On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 3:32 PM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: Am I wrong to assume, that lobbying involves approaching a registered, professional consulting/lobbying firm in Washington who in turn, refer the client to politicians and then facilitate

Re: [Foundation-l] Politico: Wikimedia foundation hires lobbyists on sopa, pipa

2012-01-22 Thread Mike Godwin
On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: Direct lobbying is relatively new compared to the older forms of government and legislative influence. Strictly from a global south perspective, a similar form of unregulated advocacy and influence that I saw practiced here

Re: [Foundation-l] Politico: Wikimedia foundation hires lobbyists on sopa, pipa

2012-01-22 Thread Mike Godwin
On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: This is an area I have no expertise in. My nascent understanding of the legal implication of those legislations aside, I, like others usually defer to more respected opinions. The Citizens United ruling for example has been

Re: [Foundation-l] Politico: Wikimedia foundation hires lobbyists on sopa, pipa

2012-01-22 Thread Mike Godwin
On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 7:45 PM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 12:30 AM, Mike Godwin mnemo...@gmail.com wrote: Why do you imagine money spent is the measure of influence? The pro-SOPA forces outspent the tech industry three-to-one and still lost. Citation

Re: [Foundation-l] Politico: Wikimedia foundation hires lobbyists on sopa, pipa

2012-01-22 Thread Mike Godwin
Cyrano writes: Mike, I don't know how's the political landscape is in the USA, but you would say that there is few significative corruption and collusion? No, I wouldn't say that. Whenever you have enough human beings assembled to create a political environment, you create the potential for

Re: [Foundation-l] just wondering, are we going to take down en.wikipedia.org?

2012-01-16 Thread Mike Godwin
Dan Collins writes: Hey guys, http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/204167-sopa-shelved-until-consensus-is-found The House decided they're going to stop bothering with this bill for a while, so while we should continue to think about what we will do when the time comes to

Re: [Foundation-l] Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

2011-10-08 Thread Mike Godwin
Ilario writes: We have two ways: to be passive or to be active. If we choose the passivity, it means that we can only organize a system of proxies like done in China or to organize some workarounds to make Wikipedia available to the person living in totalitarism. The Italian community has

Re: [Foundation-l] Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

2011-10-05 Thread Mike Godwin
Domas writes: Except that WMF as steward of the open information can roll any of that blackout crap back. Primary mission is spreading the knowledge, and now it.wikipedia obviously fails at it. I believe this interpretation is both unfair and incorrect. The Italian Wikipedians are trying

Re: [Foundation-l] Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

2011-10-04 Thread Mike Godwin
Kat Walsh writes: I am happy to see the Italian community behind the opposition to the proposed law because I do think it's contrary to what Wikimedia does, and to see that there is consensus among the Italian community to do something drastic; there will be a far greater effect on the

Re: [Foundation-l] Blackout at Italian Wikipedia

2011-10-04 Thread Mike Godwin
Milos writes: On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 22:32, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: (As an aside, kudos to Milos' rapid response and ability to organize his own local community in support of the concerns of our Italian counterparts.) Thanks! It should be noted that this the decision has been

Re: [Foundation-l] Chapters

2011-08-29 Thread Mike Godwin
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: I still see it as a matter of outlook when you say, WMF is a U.S. nonprofit and must (at minimum) operate under the U.S. rules, so is a German, French or a Swiss nonprofit, they must operate under the rules of their own

Re: [Foundation-l] Chapters

2011-08-28 Thread Mike Godwin
Theo writes: Second, it might be some form of elitist outlook if you think accountability standards for US Non-profits are more transparent and fiscally responsible than say somewhere in EU like Germany, France or the Switzerland. I assure you, they are existent, not-minimal and more

Re: [Foundation-l] Welcome Tilman Bayer to the Wikimedia Foundation

2011-07-08 Thread Mike Godwin
Good news for both Tilman and WMF! --Mike ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Re: [Foundation-l] foundation-l Digest, Vol 87, Issue 78

2011-06-24 Thread Mike Godwin
comes in part from Board members the community supports. --Mike Godwin ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Re: [Foundation-l] Seat and Donations (SPLIT from: EFF Bitcoins)

2011-06-23 Thread Mike Godwin
as being a condition of the grant. --Mike Godwin ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Re: [Foundation-l] Amicus Brief Filed in Golan v. Holder: Fighting for the Public Domain

2011-06-22 Thread Mike Godwin
of review. The brief is available for download here: http://yaleisp.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Golan-Amicus-Brief-filed.pdf Many thanks are due to everyone at the ISP who helped in writing, researching, and thinking about this brief over the past two months! --Mike Godwin

Re: [Foundation-l] Identity of Anonymous Wikipedia Editors Not Protected by First Amendment

2011-05-29 Thread Mike Godwin
SlimVirgin writes: On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 19:50, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: Identity of Anonymous Wikipedia Editors Not Protected by First Amendment

Re: [Foundation-l] Interesting legal action

2011-05-20 Thread Mike Godwin
David Gerard writes: Over the last several years, the UK libel laws have been a strong consideration in WMF carefully maintaining *no* local business presence in the UK. The legal environment here is toxic for anyone who doesn't have to put up with it. I've discussed this precise issue

Re: [Foundation-l] Remarks on Wikimedia's fundraiser

2011-03-07 Thread Mike Godwin
Andrew Garrett writes: We might be growing, but I don't think anybody in the industry would hesitate to say that we're still small and running on a shoestring budget. The websites that we compete with run budgets in the hundreds of millions to billions of dollars. This point can't be

Re: [Foundation-l] Remarks on Wikimedia's fundraiser

2011-03-07 Thread Mike Godwin
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:13 AM, aude aude.w...@gmail.com wrote: Andrew Garrett writes: We might be growing, but I don't think anybody in the industry would hesitate to say that we're still small and running on a shoestring budget. The websites that we compete with run budgets in the

Re: [Foundation-l] 2010-11 Annual Plan Now Posted to Foundation Website

2010-06-30 Thread Mike Godwin
Sam Klein writes: I do think there are more risks inherent in this sort of growth than are listed in the 'potential risks' section -- for instance, inability to acculturate new staff due to aggressive growth -- and we should be alert to these risks to avoid them. Just to be clear about this,

Re: [Foundation-l] 2010-11 Annual Plan Now Posted to Foundation Website

2010-06-30 Thread Mike Godwin
On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 7:47 AM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.comwrote: Hoi, I welcome many members of the Wikimedia staff joining us in Gdansk but PLEASE do not hide in a VIP environment like happened on previous Wikimanias. Dear Gerard, I've never known a VIP environment that

Re: [Foundation-l] 2010-11 Annual Plan Now Posted to Foundation Website

2010-06-30 Thread Mike Godwin
among the Fox Populi. Thanks, Gerard On 30 June 2010 16:49, Mike Godwin mnemo...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 7:47 AM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: Hoi, I welcome many members of the Wikimedia staff joining us in Gdansk but PLEASE do not hide

Re: [Foundation-l] Texts deleted on French Wikisource

2010-06-04 Thread Mike Godwin
Ray Saintonge writes: An important point; we musn't force the WMF lawyer into a conflict of interest The issue is only partly conflict of interest, and it often isn't that. It's primarily that WMF is not insured to give legal advice to community members. We run an encyclopedia, not a free

Re: [Foundation-l] Texts deleted on French Wikisource

2010-06-04 Thread Mike Godwin
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 8:05 AM, Andre Engels andreeng...@gmail.com wrote: Surely having a known defense strategy would beat having no defense strategy at all, which basically is the situation now. I'm afraid I must deny that we have no defense strategy. But why not support the community

Re: [Foundation-l] Communication

2010-06-04 Thread Mike Godwin
Nathan writes: When the WMF makes a decision to intervene in the projects, full and informative communication isn't just a nice-if-you-can-get-it side benefit of dealing with a small company - it's essential to maintaining the fabric of a massively participatory and cooperative endeavor. I

Re: [Foundation-l] Communication

2010-06-04 Thread Mike Godwin
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: You can argue, and have argued, that participants should know this already or can easily discover the relevant information with some digging. But why not spare them the effort? It's fully possible that the folks most interested

Re: [Foundation-l] Texts deleted on French Wikisource

2010-06-02 Thread Mike Godwin
Yann Forget writes: In addition, I receive a personal letter, as the main editor of these texts, according to Gallimard. We didn't receive any information from the Wikimedia Foundation, and I know the details only because I have been personally involved. Yann seems to be suggesting here

Re: [Foundation-l] Texts deleted on French Wikisource

2010-06-02 Thread Mike Godwin
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Yann Forget yan...@gmail.com wrote I didn't know you narrowed Gallimard's takedown demand. AFAIK you never informed me nor Wikisource about this. We cannot inform you about all the details communicated in an ongoing negotiation with parties threatening us

[Foundation-l] Office action

2010-06-02 Thread Mike Godwin
Klaus Graf writes: For me there is no reason to believe that Mr. Godwin is a good lawyer. I certainly don't require that you believe I'm a good lawyer. I'd be a very poor lawyer indeed, however, if I invited publishers to embroil us in expensive copyright lawsuits that we might not win when

Re: [Foundation-l] Office action

2010-06-02 Thread Mike Godwin
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 5:08 PM, wjhon...@aol.com wrote: What harm do you foresee in replacing deleted pages with a declaration like YouTube uses, This Video has been deleted based on a copyright claim by The Disney Corporation ? And then an extension of If you believe this is public

Re: [Foundation-l] Texts deleted on French Wikisource

2010-06-02 Thread Mike Godwin
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 8:08 PM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: It sounds like you are suggesting that there is ongoing dialog between WMF and Gallimard.. ? There is not. And what is the process _after_ the takedown? The takedown is normally the end of the process. Unless you

Re: [Foundation-l] Legal requirements for sexual content -- help, please!

2010-05-22 Thread Mike Godwin
wiki-l...@phizz.demon.co.uk writes: Across the world the Nobody is home argument is quickly running out of steam. Google execs sentenced to 6 months in Italy, LimeWire guilty for its user's piracy, and blog owner found liable for user submitted libel. It helps to actually read the stories and

Re: [Foundation-l] Legal requirements for sexual content -- help, please!

2010-05-21 Thread Mike Godwin
Stillwater Rising writes: Hosting these images without 18 USC 2257(A) records, in my opinion, is a * no-win* situation for everyone involved. This raises the obvious question of how you interpret 18 USC 2257A(g), which refers back to 18 USC 2257(h) (including in particular 18 USC

[Foundation-l] Spectrum of views (was Re: Sexual Imagery on Commons: where the discussion is happening)

2010-05-11 Thread Mike Godwin
Tim Starling writes: It's a proposal which only really makes sense when analysed from the libertarian end of this debate. It's not a compromise with the rest of the spectrum. That's correct. That was intentional. A libertarian proposal that attempts to adhere to NPOV and reduces general noise

Re: [Foundation-l] Filtering ourselves is pointless

2010-05-11 Thread Mike Godwin
Yann Forget writes: 2010/5/10 Mike Godwin mnemo...@gmail.com: Can you point me to major media entities that have accepted the notion that Fox News was correct? This statement strikes me as identifying a theoretical hazard rather than an actual outcome. --Mike Reading

Re: [Foundation-l] Sexual Imagery on Commons: where the discussion is happening

2010-05-10 Thread Mike Godwin
David Goodman writes: I have been taking an extreme anticensorship position, but I would consider this acceptable. People certainly do have the right as individuals to select what they want to see. It is not censorship, just a display option Such display options could be expanded--I would

Re: [Foundation-l] Sexual Imagery on Commons: where the discussion is happening

2010-05-10 Thread Mike Godwin
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote: And what about choosing Would you like to see uncategorized images? And the same for cultural censorship: Is your culture brave enough to gamble would you be horrified by seeing a penis or Muhammad or not? I'm not sure

Re: [Foundation-l] Sexual Imagery on Commons: where the discussion is happening

2010-05-10 Thread Mike Godwin
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Gregory Maxwell gmaxw...@gmail.comwrote: Obviously, this notion is too cute to actually be helpful, but I thought I'd share it. It has an enormously cute strawman answer: If you don't want to see images which aren't used inline in another wiki, don't

Re: [Foundation-l] Filtering ourselves is pointless

2010-05-10 Thread Mike Godwin
David Levy writes: Agreed. As some predicted, Fox News has cited Jimbo's actions as validation that its earlier claims were correct. And because any graphic images remain, this means that we're aware of an egregious problem and have made only a token effort to address it. Essentially,

Re: [Foundation-l] Filtering ourselves is pointless

2010-05-10 Thread Mike Godwin
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 2:23 PM, David Levy lifeisunf...@gmail.com wrote: Instead, Jimbo has essentially announced to the world that Fox News was correct. And until we purge our servers of every graphic image, we knowingly retain our self-acknowledged state of indecency. Can you point me

Re: [Foundation-l] Filtering ourselves is pointless

2010-05-10 Thread Mike Godwin
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 2:31 PM, David Levy lifeisunf...@gmail.com wrote: Can you point me to major media entities that have accepted the notion that Fox News was correct? I'm referring to the conclusion that one, in my assessment, would draw upon encountering Jimbo's remarks first-hand,

Re: [Foundation-l] Filtering ourselves is pointless

2010-05-10 Thread Mike Godwin
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 2:36 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: Did you draw that conclusion? Your equivocation on this point is wearisome. I don't know what you mean by equivocation here. I'm not equivocating, so far as I know. Perhaps I'm just not understanding what you mean by

Re: [Foundation-l] Potential ICRA labels for Wikipedia

2010-05-09 Thread Mike Godwin
Greg Maxwell writes: At the same time, and I think we'll hear a similar message from the EFF and the ALA, I am opposed to these organized content labelling systems. These systems are primary censorship systems and are overwhelmingly used to subject third parties, often adults, to

Re: [Foundation-l] Sexual Imagery on Commons: where the discussion is happening

2010-05-09 Thread Mike Godwin
Geoffrey Plourde writes: Wouldn't regulating content mean abdicating the role of webhost, which would call Section 230 into question? Mere removal of content posted by others does not create a Section 230 problem or a problem under equivalent provisions elsewhere in the law. A guideline or

[Foundation-l] Reflections on the recent debates

2010-05-08 Thread Mike Godwin
I want to write personally -- not speaking on behalf of the Foundation but instead as a longtime participant in online communities who has worked extensively on free-speech issues -- to offer my perspective on a couple of themes that I've seen made in threads here. The first is the claim that

Re: [Foundation-l] Reflections on the recent debates

2010-05-08 Thread Mike Godwin
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Mike.lifeguard mike.lifegu...@gmail.comwrote: On 37-01--10 03:59 PM, Mike Godwin wrote: I disagree with the suggestion that it would have been better for Fox to have gone with the original story they were trying to create rather than with the story Jimmy

Re: [Foundation-l] Reflections on the recent debates

2010-05-08 Thread Mike Godwin
, and the decisions -- not individually but taken as a whole -- that he made are justified. Huh. I never thought I'd see the day that Mike Godwin would be supporting an attack on free speech and free ideas through censorship. You're misunderstanding what I wrote here. The words not individually

Re: [Foundation-l] Reflections on the recent debates

2010-05-08 Thread Mike Godwin
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: On 8 May 2010 16:48, Mike Godwin mnemo...@gmail.com wrote:Most of the debate has been about Jimmy, not about Commons policy on non-educational images. So fix it. --Mike

Re: [Foundation-l] Reflections on the recent debates

2010-05-08 Thread Mike Godwin
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Andre Engels andreeng...@gmail.com wrote: So instead we just give in to them? We get attacked and decide to just sit up like a good dog? No one is acting like a good dog. Bad metaphor. When your village is attacked and subject to future attacks, you build

Re: [Foundation-l] Reflections on the recent debates

2010-05-08 Thread Mike Godwin
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Andre Engels andreeng...@gmail.com wrote: Defending means lessening the chance of the opponent to succeed. If you throw all the riches that are demanded and then some over the city wall, that's not defending, that's capitulating. Wow. Even worse metaphor!

Re: [Foundation-l] Reflections on the recent debates

2010-05-08 Thread Mike Godwin
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Kim Bruning k...@bruning.xs4all.nl wrote: Ah... I'm actually sort of good at this kind of thing, having mentioned aspects of it in oft-quoted essays (such as [[:en:WP:BRD]]. If people want, I could do a talk or workshop on that topic at Wikimania? This might

Re: [Foundation-l] Reflections on the recent debates

2010-05-08 Thread Mike Godwin
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: Wow. Even worse metaphor! All the riches that are demanded! Perhaps, but yours is no better. When you attack a village it is because you want something they have (riches, land, women) or you just want revenge for

Re: [Foundation-l] Reflections on the recent debates

2010-05-08 Thread Mike Godwin
Marc Riddell writes: Mike, please stop and listen. The Community, which is the heart and soul of this very Project, is ventilating, and making some extremely important points. Please stop trying to control, and re-direct, this dialogue in a more Foundation-comfortable direction. Listen and

Re: [Foundation-l] Reflections on the recent debates

2010-05-08 Thread Mike Godwin
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 11:15 AM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: However, as someone who doesn't have a financial stake, as a non-Wikimedia Foundation employee, as an Internet libertarian, I don't see where you get off doing anything _but_ admonishing Jimmy's actions. His actions appear

Re: [Foundation-l] Reflections on the recent debates

2010-05-08 Thread Mike Godwin
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen cimonav...@gmail.com wrote: Mayor of Chicago, Richard J. Daley: The policeman isn't there to create disorder; the policeman is there to preserve disorder. Sorry, couldn't resist. ;-D I've always loved that quote. Me, I want neither

Re: [Foundation-l] Reflections on the recent debates

2010-05-08 Thread Mike Godwin
On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Keegan Peterzell keegan.w...@gmail.comwrote: While there is much to be said about Jimbo's role from everyone, that's not Mike's point. His is, and correct me if I'm wrong, Mike, Sit down and work out the issue of the images, which is the most important, and

Re: [Foundation-l] Statement on appropriate educational content

2010-05-08 Thread Mike Godwin
Tomek writes: So... are we now going to start writting USfamilyfriendlypedia(tm) ? There is plenty of stuff to be delete then... not only penis and vagina pictures... For example delete all biographies of porn-stars, articles about addictive violent computer games, and there is tons of things

Re: [Foundation-l] Reflections on the recent debates

2010-05-08 Thread Mike Godwin
Florence writes: Besides the fact Mike is using a language far too convoluted for many speakers on this list, Ouch! If I do say something too convolutedly here, please send me a note, and I'll rephrase accordingly. I would argue that one of the implications of the abusive deletions is that

Re: [Foundation-l] Status report on logo copyright issues at Swedish Wikipedia

2010-04-01 Thread Mike Godwin
Dear folks, I was attending a meeting of the Northern California Copyright Society today, and I mentioned to a colleague the discussions we have had on this list and elsewhere regarding whether the Wikimedia logos, which are trademarked, should be freely licensed as copyrighted works. My

[Foundation-l] Status report on logo copyright issues at Swedish Wikipedia

2010-03-31 Thread Mike Godwin
David Castor writes: The use of these logos are thus the only thing standing in the way of stating that all material from Swedish Wikipedia can be freely reused, without any further permission. Is there any obvious legal problem with stating that (for example) All material from Swedish

Re: [Foundation-l] Swedish Wikipedians removes Wikimedia logos

2010-03-30 Thread Mike Godwin
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 12:42 AM, Andre Engels andreeng...@gmail.comwrote: This is exactly right. If we had no copyright or trademark restrictions on the Wikimedia logos and marks, it would be trivial for proprietary vendors to use the unrestricted logos in association with unfree

Re: [Foundation-l] foundation-l Digest, Vol 72, Issue 63

2010-03-30 Thread Mike Godwin
John Vandenberg writes: By the way, check out http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo. ?I hope no one thinks Swedish Wikipedians (or anyone else) is free to reuse the Volvo logo without a license. That image is in the PD as it does not meet the threshold of originality. Why do they do not

Re: [Foundation-l] Swedish Wikipedians removes Wikimedia logos

2010-03-30 Thread Mike Godwin
(Resent with correct subject header) John Vandenberg writes: By the way, check out http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo. ?I hope no one thinks Swedish Wikipedians (or anyone else) is free to reuse the Volvo logo without a license. That image is in the PD as it does not meet the threshold

Re: [Foundation-l] Swedish Wikipedians removes Wikimedia logos

2010-03-30 Thread Mike Godwin
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 4:03 PM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: Are you saying that the PD tag on this page is incorrect? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Volvo_logo.svg Oh, I'm saying something much more lawyerly than that -- I'm saying I don't know whether Volvo would

Re: [Foundation-l] Swedish Wikipedians removes Wikimedia logos

2010-03-30 Thread Mike Godwin
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 4:31 PM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: In your earlier comment, which you have now snipped, you asserted that Sv.Wp was doing the wrong thing: I hope no one thinks Swedish Wikipedians (or anyone else) is free to reuse the Volvo logo without a license.

Re: [Foundation-l] Swedish Wikipedians removes Wikimedia logos

2010-03-30 Thread Mike Godwin
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 4:55 PM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: The Swedish Wikipedia has drawn a line in the sand that all content in article space should meet the definition of free content.[http://freedomdefined.org/] I agree that they've been drawing a line in the sand, all

[Foundation-l] Logo Copyright

2010-03-30 Thread Mike Godwin
Klaus Graf writes: Nobody can be in doubt that the Volvo Logo isn't copyrighted at least in the US. Of course they can. Plenty of letterform-based designs are copyrighted in the United States. If attorneys are confusing trademark and copyright protection Wikimedia counsel should not

Re: [Foundation-l] Swedish Wikipedians removes Wikimedia logos

2010-03-30 Thread Mike Godwin
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 6:58 PM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: The purpose of defining free is to ensure that there will be no problem *for unknown reuse scenarios in the future*, _and_ to prevent a proliferation of individually crafted licenses for each case. Thank you for

Re: [Foundation-l] Swedish Wikipedians removes Wikimedia logos

2010-03-30 Thread Mike Godwin
WJhonson writes: I'm going to disagree with this claim. Are you suggesting that in order to write an article about a living person, a reporter would need their license to do so? Not at all. I'm pointing out, though, that there are all sorts of potential and actual rights embedded in

Re: [Foundation-l] Swedish Wikipedians removes Wikimedia logos

2010-03-29 Thread Mike Godwin
masti writes: It's crazy. sv.wiki still has unfree logo on every page :) It is unfree to protect wiki identity. This is exactly right. If we had no copyright or trademark restrictions on the Wikimedia logos and marks, it would be trivial for proprietary vendors to use the unrestricted logos

Re: [Foundation-l] Swedish Wikipedians removes Wikimedia logos

2010-03-29 Thread Mike Godwin
Thanks, MZ! On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 5:28 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Mike Godwin wrote: Darn it! A waste, I say! And I worked so hard to give you http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Trademark_Policy. Huh, neat. I'm not sure there was an announcement about that, but it's nice

Re: [Foundation-l] Swedish Wikipedians removes Wikimedia logos

2010-03-29 Thread Mike Godwin
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 5:38 PM, Marcus Buck m...@marcusbuck.org wrote: Mike Godwin hett schreven: My guess, admittedly based on nothing but anecdotal evidence, is that the Swedish Wikipedians who created this largely artificial and unnecessary dispute have not consulted independent

Re: [Foundation-l] Swedish Wikipedians removes Wikimedia logos

2010-03-29 Thread Mike Godwin
The Cunctator writes: No, this is a profoundly stupid decision that has no logical sense. A free license is a copyright license. The point bears repeating (over and over again, if necessary). The free licenses we use are in fact quite demanding with regard to downstream uses. And our

Re: [Foundation-l] Is Wiktionary copyright?

2010-03-28 Thread Mike Godwin
anders effeietsand...@gmail.comwrote: I assume you are referring to the term trademarked rather than copyrighted. I suggest you contact Mike Godwin directly with this kind of questions, he is handling those. With kind regards, Lodewijk 2010/3/29 Andrew Turvey andrewrtur...@googlemail.com

Re: [Foundation-l] foundation-l Digest, Vol 72, Issue 21

2010-03-07 Thread Mike Godwin
(perhaps Mike Godwin), whether routine reporting of these kind of notices to Chilling Effects Clearinghouse has been explored in any depth. Two of the three notices you refer to here were forwarded to ChillingEffects.org by me. The one dated 2004 obviously isn't from me (I began work at WMF

Re: [Foundation-l] Texas Instruments signing key controversy

2010-03-07 Thread Mike Godwin
(perhaps Mike Godwin), whether routine reporting of these kind of notices to Chilling Effects Clearinghouse has been explored in any depth. Two of the three notices you refer to here were forwarded to ChillingEffects.org by me. The one dated 2004 obviously isn't from me (I began work at WMF

Re: [Foundation-l] At school

2010-02-16 Thread Mike Godwin
Some folks at Wikipedia criticize the heck out of schools and don't trust schools because schools let anyone in, including people who don't want to learn. If schools tolerate people who don't learn, why do they exist? There could be a billion disruptive students. And when the old ones graduate,

Re: [Foundation-l] video presentation on explicit images on WMF projects

2010-01-18 Thread Mike Godwin
Nathan writes: With respect, legal issues are debated on many projects practically every day. This particular issue is no different. In some jurisdictions, just accessing such files can expose one to legal risk. While Mike is a good lawyer, he doesn't represent individual editors - and the

Re: [Foundation-l] video presentation on explicit images on WMF projects

2010-01-18 Thread Mike Godwin
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 5:41 PM, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.comwrote: Finally, your last bit, Mike, seemed to indicate that you feel the DOJ (department of justice, I think) would be wanting to talk to you if anything bad was going on does that really prohibit us from chatting

Re: [Foundation-l] video presentation on explicit images on WMF projects

2010-01-18 Thread Mike Godwin
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 8:31 PM, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.comwrote: I just had a good chat with someone pointing out that my posts probably conflate a few different areas, so perhaps while I may have your ear, Mike, I could ask you if you'd see any problem with expanding the role of

Re: [Foundation-l] It's not article count, it's editors

2009-09-22 Thread Mike Godwin
My own personal view is that, in an ideal world, we'd post two or more metrics for every project (article numbers, number of editors, and perhaps other metrics like, perhaps, external links). That would create a design problem given our current home page, but probably not an unsolvable one. The

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Italia being sued

2009-09-18 Thread Mike Godwin
Frieda writes: As far as I remember we asked WMF help just once, few months ago. There were nothing in the news at that moment. I'm sorry the original request didn't get through to me, for whatever reason. (I suspect a spam filter blocked the earlier message because it contained two long

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Italia being sued

2009-09-17 Thread Mike Godwin
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Frieda Brioschi ubifri...@gmail.comwrote: 2009/9/16 Mike Godwin mnemo...@gmail.com: We've had a lot of experience of spurious reports of lawsuits originating in Italy. How many originating from Wikimedia Italia? Not many, and perhaps not any

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimedia Italia being sued

2009-09-15 Thread Mike Godwin
Nathan writes: Interesting. Although the Italian media also reported that I (and Jimbo and various others) was being sued for 50 million euros, and I haven't seen that lawsuit yet. We've had a lot of experience of spurious reports of lawsuits originating in Italy. In the majority of those

Re: [Foundation-l] Head of Communications position open? (copy editing fix)

2009-09-09 Thread Mike Godwin
, Sep 8, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Mike Godwin mgod...@wikimedia.org wrote: sfmammamia writes: A bit of a mystery -- in Sunday's San Francisco Chronicle, page E-8, there's an ad for the Wikimedia Foundation Head of Communications position. This ad does not appear online, at least I could not find

Re: [Foundation-l] Head of Communications position open?

2009-09-08 Thread Mike Godwin
. This shouldn't be interpreted as a sign of any shakeup. Jay, for example, is not leaving the Wikimedia Foundation -- he's doing a great job, and we expect and hope he will stay with us, doing the same great work, for a long time. --Mike Godwin General Counsel Wikimedia Foundation

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