Re: What do you think of the foundation?

[Vincent Untz]

Le dimanche 31 mai 2009, à 09:42 +0200, Dave Neary a écrit :
> So, I've detailed my vision, with two major changes:
> - include foundation members in the daily running of the foundation by  
> having the majority of board business happen in the open on  
> foundation-list, including having the working version of the accounts in  
> a publicly accessible place, posting draft minutes straight after  
> meetings, rather than going through the 2/3 day review period we've had  
> in the past, posting agendas for meetings to foundation-list, and using  
> foundation-list as the main board mailing list, only going to board-list  
> for board-confidential issues.

I could simply say "yes". And that's a good goal I generally agree with.
The truth is that it's always a bit more complex than that: for example,
one major issue with working this way is that it highly increases the
chances of making public something that shouldn't be public.

(btw, I would think it's not just the responsability of the board to
help make this happen: everybody can start discussing the topics here)

FWIW, we tried to post agendas on foundation-list at some point (in
2006, according to a google search), and it didn't last. I can only
find examples for April 2006 in the archives. It's quite some years ago,
so I don't remember what happened, but I would guess it's the fact that
agendas often gets created with a mail thread, with no "final" version
of the agenda.

> - the foundation, through the board, should be empowered and committed  
> to maintaining a friendly and productive working environment

Sure. And the board is delegating this task to various people already.
I've seen various cases in bugzilla where bugmasters stepped in to
explain to someone that he was really going too far. For Planet GNOME,
the editors are playing this role (although it hasn't been needed). On
mailing lists, listadmins and "old" contributors are doing this. Etc.

This would cover most cases. There are cases which won't fit anywhere
else, and for those, the board can directly be contacted. But I'll
always think that trying to first solve the issue in an unofficial way
(ie, not "the board decides that...") is better.

Vincent

-- 
Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés.
___
foundation-list mailing list
foundation-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list

Re: What do you think of the foundation?

[Vincent Untz]

Hey,

(Coming late to the party -- was away from computer for some time, and
then I had to catch up with things...)

Doing some combo reply, because I don't want to spam everybody.

On the topic of whether the board should enforce the code of conduct,
resolve issues between people, "blame" people, or whatever: I dislike
the idea of making this a general rule. I do think it's generally better
to try to solve the issue privately, with the help of an external person
if needed. It might make sense to ask the board to step in as a last
resort, but I certainly don't want to have the board swamped with many
such requests.

(fwiw, I'd expect that most of such requests sent to the board would
first be handled in an unofficial way by a board member anyway)

I think Dave might have a point that right now, people do not know what
to do in such cases, though. I don't think it's a documentation issue --
if I were to be in a position like this, I wouldn't even search on the
website what to do. I would discuss this with friends from the
community. So it's just some missing general knowledge that if really
there's a big issue for you, you should feel free to contact anybody
from the board or the board itself.

There might be people not daring to contact the board because, well,
the board is all serious, and only cares about very important things,
and bla bla bla :-) And I actually remember being like this. This is a
perception that I'd like to see changed, and I honestly have no idea how
to change it except saying "it's just another (private) mailing list".
Any better idea welcome :-)

And two specific replies:

Le samedi 30 mai 2009, à 09:04 -0600, Stormy Peters a écrit :
> I think the GNOME community can take away the right to publish on GNOME
> forums. So you can say anything you want on your blog but if it doesn't meet
> the GNOME standards of conduct, it can be removed from Planet GNOME. This is
> not anti-diversity - this is a way of encouraging a friendly, respectful
> place to discuss ideas and differences of opinion.

Just wanted to mention that for Planet GNOME, this is already part of
the "rules" (which are public, see http://live.gnome.org/PlanetGnome).
However, I don't think the editors received any complain about a blog so
far -- at least, not since I joined the team.

Le jeudi 28 mai 2009, à 11:48 -0700, Sriram Ramkrishna a écrit :
> There should be some kind of method of releasing a board member from
> duty due to non-activity and let someone else have a stab at it.

See by-laws, article VIII, section 4c, entitled "Removals":
http://foundation.gnome.org/about/bylaws.pdf

Vincent

-- 
Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés.
___
foundation-list mailing list
foundation-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list

About the unpublished board meeting minutes

[Anne Østergaard]

About the unpublished board meeting minutes.

The board is responsible.

It has been mentioned on this list a couple of times that people are
missing information from the board meetings.

Behdad as chairman of the board said:
"These are two different issues.  I believe I made it clear that:

   1) Minutes have been taken.

   2) We'll try to publish them before elections.

If minutes hadn't been taken we couldn't publish them now.  So while you
may reason that unpublished minutes are as good as no minutes, it's not
exactly like that since unpublished ones *can* be published now.

behdad"


I find it serious that the board who is serving 18 months instead of 12
months has neglected to publish board meeting minutes over a long
period of time.

The Foundation Members can not be expected to take part of, or react on
missing information from The GNOME Foundation Board of Directors.

Remember that we have now 7 board members. Before we had 11 members of the
board.

In case the missing minutes are not published before the elections
start, I will not vote for re-election of any of the present board members.

Other GNOME Foundation Members might feel the same way.

Please point us to the latest, and updated version og GNOME Foundation
bylaws. Which I hope all of us has read.

Can the candidates all confirm that they have read the Foundation bylaws?

Kind regards

Anne







Delete & Prev |  Delete & Next


___
foundation-list mailing list
foundation-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list

Re: So what do people *except* me want from the foundation?

[john palmieri]

Now that I have had time to gather my thoughts - I would really like the
Foundation to bring back the import of what it means to be part of something
bigger than oneself.  GNOME needs to be a brand that is bigger than the sum
of its parts, a place where people come not to further their own agendas but
to grow GNOME itself.

That starts with a sense of belonging. How do we make people excited to join
the Foundation?  It continues with positive reinforcement.  How do we make
people feel their contributions continue to be appreciated?  It never ends.

I think the current atmosphere where there is a lot of bike shedding comes
from a sense that outside forces view GNOME as a tool to be used and shaped
to their own agenda as opposed to being an integral part of who they are.
We have at some point stopped being friends who came together for a common
cause and at that point it just became easier to form islands of
development.  Respect has gone out the door.

This is why I think the most important focus for the foundation going
forward is a) the "marketing" team and b) social events like the hackfests.
Marketing because we really need to figure out how to get our messages
across, even to our own members.  Generating excitement from things as
simple as regular profiles of GNOME apps and their developers is important
to a sense of community.  Social events because when people meet face to
face they tend to start treating each other with more humanity, not the
mention the boost in development efficiency that results when people get
along.

I have other hopes for the Foundation but those are my main insights.  Take
them or leave them.

--
John

On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Dave Neary  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Now that we have clearly identified everyone who disagrees with what *I*
> hope for from the foundation and its board, I'm still interested in the
> question I asked previously:
>
>   What do you expect from the foundation?
>
> What are the things that the foundation is doing that it shouldn't be, the
> things it isn't that it should, the things the membership could be doing
> that it isn't, etc.? What is your vision of the foundation?
>
> Cheers,
> Dave.
>
> --
> Dave Neary
> GNOME Foundation member
> dne...@gnome.org
> ___
> foundation-list mailing list
> foundation-list@gnome.org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
>
___
foundation-list mailing list
foundation-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list

Re: Questions for the candidates

[Hubert Figuiere]

On 05/29/2009 01:17 PM, Susana Pereira wrote:


  1. For outgoing board members: what have been the upsides/good things
from your previous stint at the Board which you would  like to see
carried forward into this term ?


I was not previously member of the board.


  2. If you are a new candidate: what specific SMART
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMART_(project_management)) goals would
you like to put for yourself? Or, in other words, how would you like
to measure yourself and, let others know how you are doing ?



I would say T: time. Getting things done when they should be and/or 
making sure they can be. This include updating the rest of the board or 
members of things in progress, including the various stages.
But seriously, do we need to spend time on that? I think we can have a 
more straightforward way to do things and get then done.




  3. What part of being a board member do you think will be most
difficult for you? How do you plan to compensate for that?


To be honest, I have no idea. Maybe everything. I'm a passionate hacker, 
and the board is a non-hacker duty. So that would be a change.




  4. Do you have any experience on management teams or boards at
non-profits? If so, can you give an example of a change you affected
in that role? If not, what makes you think that you will be a good
board member? What single change do you want to affect during your
term?


I don't have any experience on management teams or boards at 
non-profits. Gotta have to start somewhere. I think my motivation is 
what will make me a good board member.




  5. What are the specific areas of the Foundation's focus and strategy
where you think you can contribute as a change agent ?


Change agent? Looks like one want a revolution. I'm not here for that, 
at least not a quick one. I think that at first, like any of the runner 
for the election that have never been elected, bring in new eyes, new 
ideas as how I can contribute.




  6. Do you think we need to make the being a member of the Foundation
feel more valuable, and how do you think we should do that? What would
you change about the Foundation to make it more useful to members.


First I see foundation members being mostly left out of the decisions. 
One of the things that could be done is to increase their involvement by 
having a foundation-member mailing list, with moderators (just in case) 
and no public archive that would be used to really discuss the matters 
that the members have. This is one idea.


As to be more useful to members, it is harder to say. Beside the 
sponsorship for GUADEC, I see little that the Foundation can do for 
individuals. For corporate members, that's the role of the advisory board.




  7. Do you have any plans on how can the board help bring the GNOME
platform and desktop in the top of opensource desktop and mobile
application development?


The foundation could work more to bring on board more major "industry" 
partners (several of them are already on the advisory board), educating 
and informing.
I have seen companies that seem to (be willing to) use GNOME and Gtk for 
their (mobile) platform, and I had never heard of them before (nor did 
other people that are actually in the field). These are the one that 
should be approached by the Foundation.




  8. Do you think the GNOME Foundation and the GNOME projects get
enough representation at events? If not, how would you fix that?


No. How to fix that? Better coordinate with the local members and figure 
out of way to help them. The GNOME Event Box has played a pivotal role 
in representing GNOME on shows and event, and I think it has gone around 
the world several time by now.
To fix that, I'd start by collecting the calendar of the event with real 
data, like attendance, target audience, needs, and start from there.




  9. What, in your view, are the top 5 requirements (from a strategic
perspective) for the GNOME communities world-wide ?


Without particular order:

-Presence: represent GNOME at local events (FLOSS or not) As answered in 
question 8, that's a place where the Foundation can and should help. Of 
course this might lead to tough decision due to the limited resources.


-Openness: be open to new contributors, new ideas. It is the 
contributors that make the project alive and kicking.


-Friendliness: make sure there is friendliness. One of the great asset 
of the Free Software in general is that it is founded on communities and 
that even if some compete in some aspect, they still share the same 
goal: going forward. And for that there is friendly cooperation.
And it must be added, friendliness with other FLOSS communities, 
including for the competing desktop.
(I still believe that the Gran Canaria Desktop Summit, GUADEC joint with 
aKademy is a great idea as to would help foster a collaboration on the 
foundations of Free Desktops)


-Proximity: be close geographically to the people. That mean more local 
groups with more local events (a group can be si

Re: What do you think of the foundation?

[Brian Cameron]

Jamie McCracken says:

I dont think there is a problem in the community to be honest


I think that the most serious problem facing the community right now
is our budget.  With the added expenses of having more employees, we
really need to figure out how to be more frugal, find new sources of
income, and also continue improving the services provided by the
Foundation.  This, I think, is a real challenge.  Stormy has been
doing a great job in improving fundraising already, but much more
work needs to be done to grow.

In addition, I think it would be good to discuss how the Foundation
could better serve Foundation members.  What things about the Foundation
make it appealing to join.  The Foundation should provide members, at a
minimum, with opportunities to participate in the community and
recognition for doing so.  Hopefully recognition in a form that makes
people proud to be Foundation members, and helps them in professional
ways.  Ensuring people who volunteer have good job titles, with clear
responsibilities, and perhaps information about the good quality of
their performance would perhaps be the sort of thing that could help
people think that the Foundation is an important, and useful,
organization to join.

Personally, I think it would be good for the Foundation to get more
involved with doing usability studies and improving the HIG.  With GNOME
3.0 around the corner, we have a real opportunity and need here.  It
also seems a great way for the entire GNOME community to work together
to ensure that GNOME stays simple with good usability.  Something that
the entire GNOME community does not want to lose in the migration to
GNOME 3.0, I'm sure.

Since the budget is an issue, finding ways for the Foundation to help
with raising money, improving marketing, finding ways to increase the
value the Foundation provides to AdBoard members who donate money to
the Foundation, and providing incentives to help would also be useful to
think about and discuss, I think.

What other services and benefits could the Foundation provide to people
to make the Foundation useful, productive, and appealing to join?

So, even if we decide there are no problems in the community, I think
there are a lot of opportunities to further improve things.  In addition
to doing some obviously important things such as improving transparency
(thanks Stormy) and being better about being nice and holding hands.

Brian
___
foundation-list mailing list
foundation-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list

GUADEC 2010 Call for Hosts postponed until after Gran Canaria

[John Palmieri]

Dear Foundation Members,

In the past, by this time, the Board would have already sent around the GUADEC 
call for hosts. In largely closed door meetings it would have been decided 
where next year's GUADEC would be held, announcing it at the current year's 
conference.  Since this has been a year of significant change (this is the 
first year GUADEC is being co-located with Akademy) we would like to get more 
input into the process and find out what our members want to see come next 
summer, as well as how to best pick the winning location.

We have decided to postpone the call for proposals until after this year's 
GUADEC has concluded.  We fully expect to discuss the topic during GUADEC at 
the foundation AGM, as well as on the foundation list[1] to find out what you, 
the members, would like to see happen next year.  Please feel free to talk 
about your likes and dislikes about this year's conference and if you don't get 
a chance to attend, what would make you more likely to attend next year.

As for those who wish to make a proposal, a formal call for hosts is not a 
prerequisite for starting the process.  If you can, we encourage you to meet 
with us and other attendees at this year's conference and get a head start by 
starting the drafting process sooner than later.  You may also contact us with 
questions you may have[2]. 

On behalf of the board,
John (J5) Palmieri

[1] foundation-list@gnome.org 
(http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list)
[2] bo...@gnome.org
___
foundation-list mailing list
foundation-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list

Re: Questions for the candidates

[Dave Neary]

Hi Jorge,

Jorge O. Castro wrote:

I've never served on a board or any kind of governing body before, so
my first answer would be "what would people want the goals to be?"


Do you think that your experience with Ubuntu has given you some insight 
onto what you will be able to achieve as a board member?



What I expect is that the board will be transparent enough so that it
is obvious to people when I am being effective at my job; as such when
I make a mistake I expect to know it relatively quickly so I can fix
it.


Do you have any suggestions about how to increase transparency without 
increasing workload?



 4. Do you have any experience on management teams or boards at
non-profits? If so, can you give an example of a change you affected
in that role? If not, what makes you think that you will be a good
board member? What single change do you want to affect during your
term?


I've not been involved in a non-profit before.


Perhaps you can find an example from your role in the Ubuntu community? 
A time when you had to affect change, how you went about it, and what 
was the outcome?



I would like to see the Foundation be more aggressive with GNOME
consumers like distros and other organizations for participation and
funds. I would like more aggressive campaigning to ISVs, ODMs, OSVs,
etc. on why they want to be part of GNOME and why they want to build
on our platform. I have strong opinions on GNOME as a platform (see
below).


What change in approach would you suggest to get us to improve in this 
area? I know, having done some of this in the past, that getting 
commitments of time & money from ISDs is not straightforward. Even 
trying to get complaints which they might have isn't easy. How do you 
think this fits with the typical time commitments of a board member (10 
to 20 hours per week, I'd guess)?



Whatever issues we have with the platform we need find it and fix it,
I would start by asking non-GNOME developers why they don't choose to
develop on our platform, and then fix those problems. We hear
third-party developers complaining[1] about problems all the time (and
they have so for years), but are we really making an effort to fix
this?


Do you need to be on the board to help with this or drive this agenda? 
It sounds like the kind of thing we have wanted to do with GNOME Mobile 
for quite a while.


The difficulty as I've said is getting people who actually use the 
platform to figure out what needs doing/changing/fixing, and there's 
another issue - developers of commercial applications go where there's a 
market. There's an iPhone market for apps. There's a market for windows 
applications. There's a thriving market for Mac applications. There's a 
market for enterprise web and server applications on Linux. There's no 
market for graphical Linux applications.


So you need to identify:
 - Large group of users of Linux/GNOME based platforms
 - Common set of APIs that developers can use to develop complete 
applications across that range of platforms



Our problems are:
 - Many GNOME based platforms, but no communication to users or 
developers that the platforms in common

 - No information on size of user base
 - No easy way to deliver software across all the platforms
 - No complete set of APIs that are shared by all which allow a 
developer to write an application that'll work everywhere.


The nearest thing a mobile developer has to that is Java. Android is 
trying to address that issue. And iPhone has ignored the "many 
platforms" problem to create one kick-ass product that lots of people want.



 * Transparency. Enough said about this, it's a requirement.
 * Governance. I don't mean in a boring rulebook kind of way, but are
GNOME communities set up to handle things like conflict resolution,
resource handling, etc.
 * Marketing. The word needs to be out there.
 * Culture. I like it how when I meet a new GNOME person I've never
met that we already share many values by default. It should always be
like this.
 * Barrier-breaking. There are people out there wanting to be involved
in GNOME but don't know how or they are shy or they think their ideas
will be ridiculed, etc. etc. The onus is on us to ensure that people
have the opportunity to work on something they care about and be
successful.


Aside from transparency and maybe governance, which of those needs you 
to be on the board to start working on it?


Cheers,
Dave.

--
Dave Neary
GNOME Foundation member
dne...@gnome.org
___
foundation-list mailing list
foundation-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list

Re: Stormy's update, week of May 25th.

[Stormy Peters]

Thanks.

The Foundation blog doesn't get posted to Planet since it's not a personal
blog. We thought about posting some of the categories. So I could tag my
updates "personal" and those would get updated.

Stormy

On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 5:45 AM, Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak <
m...@avtechpulse.com> wrote:

> Stormy Peters wrote:
>
>> I have been posting my weekly updates on
>> http://blogs.gnome.org/foundation/. It was pointed out to me that I
>> should also post them to foundation-list for those that don't read
>> news.gnome.org  regularly. So here it is!
>>
>
> This stuff is great, Stormy! It helps address the "transparency" complaints
> mentioned in other threads, and helps answer the questions of "Why do we pay
> $$$ for a director" and "What is the board doing anyway?".
>
> Maybe it should go on pgo?
>
> - Mike
>
___
foundation-list mailing list
foundation-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list

Re: Questions for the candidates

[Lionel Dricot]

>> I'd like to add an optional tenth question:
>>
>> 10. If the foundation built a bike shed,

An european or an african one ?

>> what color would you paint the
>> roof?

Red… no… blue… argh !

___
foundation-list mailing list
foundation-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list

Re: What do you think of the foundation?

[Jim Gettys]

john palmieri wrote:

>
> The board should not mire itself in conflict resolution like this, just
> like it does not make technical decitions.  The boards role is to obtain
> and distribute resources and make sure those resources are used in
> efficent ways.  That is enormous power as it is.  Giving it a
> policing/judicial role would be a mistake.  I could imagine some
> extremist contingent getting a majority and then anyone who got fed up
> with their retoric and let slip a fuck you to them on the list would
> suddenly find their account disabled.  The door swings both ways there
> which is the problem with trying to control speach.
>
>

I think the board has the responsibility to ensure conflict resolution 
takes place when disputes arise and are not naturally resolved; and act 
as a court of "last resort"  in appeals to disputes that cannot be 
resolved by those directly involved or those delegated to review  and 
resolve a situation.

 - Jim
___
foundation-list mailing list
foundation-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list

Re: Questions for the candidates

[Andy Tai]

Shouldn't the candidates be expected to oppose the foundation building this,
as it is a misuse of the foundation's resources?

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 11:25 AM, David Bolter  wrote:

> I'd like to add an optional tenth question:
>
> 10. If the foundation built a bike shed, what color would you paint the
> roof?
>
>


-- 
Andy Tai, a...@atai.org
___
foundation-list mailing list
foundation-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list

Re: What do you think of the foundation?

[Jamie McCracken]

I dont think there is a problem in the community to be honest

whilst some people do have strong opinions and there are indeed factions
within gnome which can be very vocal, I dont think anyone can say gnome
has truly poisonous and destructive people. 

Sure some poeple can come across as arrogant or aloof at times and they
may also appear hostile to others but it rarely is a problem really -
its part and parcel of any community 

Gnome is generally a happy place IMO and I dont think the board needs to
act in this area yet

jamie


On Fri, 2009-05-29 at 10:45 -0600, Stormy Peters wrote:
> So I'm hearing Dave say we need more policing and Philip saying
> everything is ok. What do others think?
> 
> Does the community think everything is ok? Or if not, do they want to
> self police or delegate taking action to the board? (Or both.)
> 
> Philip, I agree that your blog is yours, but supposedly you write blog
> posts, emails, IRC chats to tell people something. So if you are
> offending them and responding angrily, are you communicating what you
> want to be saying to them? For example, if you think people are too
> politically correct, the way to persuade them of that is probably not
> to swear at them. 
> 
> I think you have the right to freedom of speech. I even think you have
> the right to say it any tone and with any words you want to. But if
> you want people to listen, you need to speak to them in a way *they*
> don't find offensive.
> 
> And this is often really hard to do. I dread some conversation topics,
> like politics, because people are so emotionally involved they end up
> "yelling" at each other and neither side convinces the other of
> anything. 
> 
> Hopefully in the GNOME community we can stick to the topic and keep
> out offensive language or behaviors so that we can have productive
> conversations. Often that means making your behavior match a social
> norm, even if it's more "politically correct" than you'd normally be.
> 
> For example, some of my SO's friends tend to swear a lot more than I'm
> used to. It doesn't offend me, but I don't do it. I've noticed that
> they don't swear when they talk directly to me. They're socially aware
> and they've adapted to my social norm. 
> 
> I suppose the question is what is our social norm? That's what Dave
> and Philip seem to be debating.
> 
> Stormy
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Philip Van Hoof 
> wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-05-29 at 16:46 +0200, Dave Neary wrote:
> 
> > Philip Van Hoof wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> 
> As every opinion of me is looked as being aggressive, it's no
> longer
> possible for me to have this discussion in a constructive kind
> of way.
> 
> 
> --
> Philip Van Hoof, freelance software developer
> home: me at pvanhoof dot be
> gnome: pvanhoof at gnome dot org
> http://pvanhoof.be/blog
> http://codeminded.be
> 
> ___
> 
> 
> foundation-list mailing list
> foundation-list@gnome.org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
> 
> 
> ___
> foundation-list mailing list
> foundation-list@gnome.org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list

___
foundation-list mailing list
foundation-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list

Re: Stormy's update, week of May 25th.

[Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak]

Stormy Peters wrote:
I have been posting my weekly updates on 
http://blogs.gnome.org/foundation/. It was pointed out to me that I 
should also post them to foundation-list for those that don't read 
news.gnome.org  regularly. So here it is!


This stuff is great, Stormy! It helps address the "transparency" 
complaints mentioned in other threads, and helps answer the questions of 
"Why do we pay $$$ for a director" and "What is the board doing anyway?".


Maybe it should go on pgo?

- Mike
___
foundation-list mailing list
foundation-list@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list