Re: Code of Conduct Adoption Process
On Fri, 2016-09-16 at 20:33 -0400, Richard Stallman wrote: > Ironically, I was serving as his conduit into the list(s). > I will certainly stop. > > Which of these lists is he banned from? Both? I don't know, but maybe he's just not subscribed. If so, his posts won't appear until approved by a moderator. Michael ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Code of Conduct Adoption Process
> My guess is that Lefty is replying publicly, that his posts are not > being allowed through the list for some reason, and that Richard > understandably does not realize nobody else can see the posts he is > replying to. Ironically, I was serving as his conduit into the list(s). I will certainly stop. Which of these lists is he banned from? Both? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Code of Conduct Adoption Process
> I do not understand. What I am doing is sending the reply to a > message to the same lists that the other message went to. I do that > because these messages attack me and I deserve a chance to respond. I assumed that you were accidently moving a conversation from the private ML to the public one, missing the part you were replying to. Apparently there is a moderation hickup, so sorry about that. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Code of Conduct Adoption Process
On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 7:40 AM, Richard Stallman wrote: > > Can you please stop leaking half a conversation from a private mailing > > list to a public one? Thank you. > > I do not understand. What I am doing is sending the reply to a > message to the same lists that the other message went to. I do that > because these messages attack me and I deserve a chance to respond. > > What is it about this that is wrong? > Would you please spell out concretely what actions you are criticizing? > What, concretely, are you asking me to do instead? > Hi Richard, you're not doing anything wrong. I think the problem is with the moderation of the emails. Lefty's emails may not all be coming in, so it's hard to know if everyone has seen the entire conversation unfold. I'm not the foundation-list moderator, so I'm basing my response on Shaun's last email. *@Everyone *- The Foundation list does not need to know the entire conversation going on. It's not our business and seems to be personal between two members. I agree that we should protect members from harassment. *@Richard* and *@Lefty*, if either of you feels like you are being personally harassed, please send an email to coc-working-group-l...@gnome.org describing the full concern and we'll try to help. The entire Foundation list no longer needs to be involved in the threads you guys are sending as it has devloved from being productive and has become more personal. Let's try to have a constructive conversation instead of one full of personal attacks. I'd like to raise the point that we do not have an organizational CoC with a strong enforcement policy. This is something the CoC Working Group is hoping to propose as a Phase II of this project. This would help with what James is talking about. It takes each and every one of us to promote a safe and welcoming space. We hope that you'll help us remain productive through this CoC drafting process and welcome more resources and examples for us all to learn from. > > ___ > coc-working-group-list mailing list > coc-working-group-l...@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/coc-working-group-list > ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Code of Conduct Adoption Process
> Can you please stop leaking half a conversation from a private mailing > list to a public one? Thank you. I do not understand. What I am doing is sending the reply to a message to the same lists that the other message went to. I do that because these messages attack me and I deserve a chance to respond. What is it about this that is wrong? Would you please spell out concretely what actions you are criticizing? What, concretely, are you asking me to do instead? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Code of Conduct Adoption Process
On Fri, 2016-09-16 at 07:04 +0200, Jens Georg wrote: > Can you please stop leaking half a conversation from a private > mailing > list to a public one? Thank you. In Richard's defense, I don't believe the emails he's replying to are intended to be private. In the mailing list archives, there are a number of "Message not available" entries: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2016-September/thread.h tml My guess is that Lefty is replying publicly, that his posts are not being allowed through the list for some reason, and that Richard understandably does not realize nobody else can see the posts he is replying to. > > > > > > > > My constructive criticism is that you not take your code of > > > conduct guidance from people who are unrepentant poster > > children > > > for the need for a code of conduct. > > > > He's exaggerating about me, but that's the smaller error. His > > fundamental error is in the general premise that he wants us to > > accept > > without examination: that we should judge proposals based on > > opinions > > about the people who worked on them. > > > > We should judge proposals based on what they say and their effects, > > not based on personalities. > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Code of Conduct Adoption Process
On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 3:34 AM, Jens Georg wrote: >> >> I do agree that seeing only part of the conversation isn't >> particularly helpful, > > > Sorry for not making this clear, that was the point I was trying to make > here. Nothing else. Indeed, now an apology from me, if it wasn't clear that I wasn't trying to interject against you, but rather both: 1) agree with your comment 2) ask if someone is looking into helping deal with the alleged harassment. I still haven't heard anything about (2) but hope that it is resolved soon. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list
Re: Code of Conduct Adoption Process
I do agree that seeing only part of the conversation isn't particularly helpful, Sorry for not making this clear, that was the point I was trying to make here. Nothing else. ___ foundation-list mailing list foundation-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list