Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Am 13.09.2017 22:21 schrieb "Ondrej Pokorny" : > > On 13.09.2017 22:08, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: >> >> Anyway, I had looked at your patch last Friday, but after some thinking >> I came to the conclusion that I definitely don't want the typehelpers >> modeswitch to enable inheritance on recor

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 13.09.2017 22:08, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: Anyway, I had looked at your patch last Friday, but after some thinking I came to the conclusion that I definitely don't want the typehelpers modeswitch to enable inheritance on record helpers in mode Delphi cause that would be some unexpected

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 12.09.2017 22:21, Ondrej Pokorny wrote: > On 29.08.2017 7:54, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: >> This will not be enabled by default. If anything a modeswitch will be >> added so that users are aware that what they'll write will not be >> compatible with Delphi. > > Any chance to get the (last)

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 29.08.2017 7:54, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: This will not be enabled by default. If anything a modeswitch will be added so that users are aware that what they'll write will not be compatible with Delphi. Any chance to get the (last) patch in issue #32355 reviewed? Somehow I have the f

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Am 01.09.2017 21:07 schrieb "Ondrej Pokorny" : > > On 01.09.2017 18:38, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: >> >> What if I do the initial specialization in a unit that does not know about the helper? It can't just do speculative specialization once both the specialized generic and the generic helper a

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 01.09.2017 18:38, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: What if I do the initial specialization in a unit that does not know about the helper? It can't just do speculative specialization once both the specialized generic and the generic helper are used in the same unit. And even if the compiler wo

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

As I said for me then it's rather useless for what I see the benefit in helpers for generic types. It's not even close to the benefit I get from extension methods in C# (yeah, I know generics work a bit different there). Having really slim interfaces like IEnumerable or IObservable which both ha

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

2017-09-01 18:30 GMT+02:00 Sven Barth via fpc-devel < fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org>: > I'd prefer to keep that syntax for aspects or as alternative attribute > syntax instead of wasting it for helpers that are defined to work based on > the type > +1 :))) so we have nice topic to talk. I have ho

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Am 01.09.2017 14:50 schrieb "Stefan Glienke" : > > > For generics the only way to support them is that you must explicitly specialize a generic helper type. The compiler won't do any type inference for you. > > IMO this makes them rather useless. Is that a technical limitation or just something you

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Am 01.09.2017 14:41 schrieb "Maciej Izak" : > > 2017-09-01 14:30 GMT+02:00 Michael Van Canneyt : >>> >>> >>> No, directives won't be abused for something like that. >> >> >> I am glad I am not the only one who thins so :) > > > I like experiments as you know. Thanks for critical words as always :P.

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

> For generics the only way to support them is that you must explicitly > specialize a generic helper type. The compiler won't do any type inference > for you. IMO this makes them rather useless. Is that a technical limitation or just something you did not want to do? I don't know much about co

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

2017-09-01 14:30 GMT+02:00 Michael Van Canneyt : > >> No, directives won't be abused for something like that. >> > > I am glad I am not the only one who thins so :) I like experiments as you know. Thanks for critical words as always :P. But this time I must agree too. :) Only one experimental op

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On Fri, 1 Sep 2017, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: Am 01.09.2017 12:15 schrieb "Maciej Izak" : 2017-09-01 11:41 GMT+02:00 Stefan Glienke : {$EXPLICITHELPERS TH1, default for string} s.foo; // TH1.foo s.foo1; s.foo2; s.foo3; end. No, directives won't be abused for something like t

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Am 01.09.2017 12:15 schrieb "Maciej Izak" : > > 2017-09-01 11:41 GMT+02:00 Stefan Glienke : >> >> Again you will cause unnecessary headaches because now your helper has the dependency of the builtin and the third party one. >> How would third party one and third party two implement them? They both

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Am 01.09.2017 11:51 schrieb "Stefan Glienke" : > > What I am lobbying for in Delphi are interface helpers and helpers for generic types in general. > > I just saw that FPC currently has the same limitation. That also on your list? > Interface helpers are implemented in trunk for around two weeks n

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

I consider that as terribly hard to maintain code. As soon as you move around statements, refactor things everything gets messed up. No thanks. > On 01 September 2017 at 12:15 Maciej Izak wrote: > > > 2017-09-01 11:41 GMT+02:00 Stefan Glienke : > > > Again you will cause unnecessary headaches

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 01.09.2017 12:15, Maciej Izak wrote: 2017-09-01 11:41 GMT+02:00 Stefan Glienke >: Again you will cause unnecessary headaches because now your helper has the dependency of the builtin and the third party one. How would third party one and third party two

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

2017-09-01 11:41 GMT+02:00 Stefan Glienke : > Again you will cause unnecessary headaches because now your helper has the > dependency of the builtin and the third party one. > How would third party one and third party two implement them? They both > probably would extend the builtin one. Which one

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 01.09.2017 11:41, Stefan Glienke wrote: Again you will cause unnecessary headaches because now your helper has the dependency of the builtin and the third party one. Not really, if you want to use both helpers (builtin and 3rd party) in the same unit you have the dependencies already added

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

What I am lobbying for in Delphi are interface helpers and helpers for generic types in general. I just saw that FPC currently has the same limitation. That also on your list? > On 01 September 2017 at 11:07 Sven Barth wrote: > > > Am 01.09.2017 08:47 schrieb "Stefan Glienke" : > > Therefor

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Again you will cause unnecessary headaches because now your helper has the dependency of the builtin and the third party one. How would third party one and third party two implement them? They both probably would extend the builtin one. Which one can you use in your code then? Yes, the one that c

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Am 01.09.2017 08:47 schrieb "Stefan Glienke" : > Therefor I argue that the "only the last one in scope is applied" restriction should be removed. > If there are any clashes because two helpers introduce a any ambiguity well then it is the compilers job to warn or error about those and provide a way

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 01.09.2017 8:47, Stefan Glienke wrote: Inheritance seems like the obvious way but you just defer the "I cannot extend the builtin helpers" problem. If any third party code decides to do so you are at the same point again because now do you inherit from the third party helper or from the buil

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Inheritance seems like the obvious way but you just defer the "I cannot extend the builtin helpers" problem. If any third party code decides to do so you are at the same point again because now do you inherit from the third party helper or from the builtin one? What if two third parties inherit f

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Am 31.08.2017 17:48 schrieb "Ondrej Pokorny" : > > On 31.08.2017 17:22, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: >> >> > I remember a compiler bug in class destructor order call in Delphi: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19332847/delphi-class-variable-going-out-of-scope-before-class-destructor-is-called

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 31.08.2017 17:22, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: > I remember a compiler bug in class destructor order call in Delphi: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19332847/delphi-class-variable-going-out-of-scope-before-class-destructor-is-called That should get solved once I reworked the unit ini

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Am 31.08.2017 15:55 schrieb "Ondrej Pokorny" : > > On 31.08.2017 14:55, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: >> >> >> > Yeah, they might enable record helper inheritance for example :P (Record helper inheritance was documented to work for about 7 years since Delphi 2007 until XE6 http://docwiki.embarcad

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 31.08.2017 15:54, Ondrej Pokorny wrote: By the way, FPC is affected by the very same bug: https://mantis.freepascal.org/view.php?id=29334 . Sorry, wrong link: https://mantis.freepascal.org/view.php?id=24256 Ondrej ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-de

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 31.08.2017 14:55, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: > Yeah, they might enable record helper inheritance for example :P (Record helper inheritance was documented to work for about 7 years since Delphi 2007 until XE6 http://docwiki.embarcadero.com/RADStudio/XE6/en/Class_and_Record_Helpers_(Del

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

In our previous episode, Sven Barth via fpc-devel said: > > Yeah, they might enable record helper inheritance for example :P (Record > helper inheritance was documented to work for about 7 years since Delphi > 2007 until XE6 > http://docwiki.embarcadero.com/RADStudio/XE6/en/Class_and_Record_Helpers

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Am 31.08.2017 12:07 schrieb "Ondrej Pokorny" : > > On 29.08.2017 22:30, Maciej Izak wrote: >> >> >>> >>> Btw. record helpers support inheritance in all modes but Delphi. It doesn't make sense to disallow it for record helpers but allow it for type helpers... Too overcomplicated without any plus val

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 29.08.2017 22:30, Maciej Izak wrote: Btw. record helpers support inheritance in all modes but Delphi. It doesn't make sense to disallow it for record helpers but allow it for type helpers... Too overcomplicated without any plus value :/ what if Delphi will decide to introduce so

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

2017-08-29 22:09 GMT+02:00 Ondrej Pokorny : > I, on the contrary, read: > > On 29.08.2017 18:54, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: > > (btw: a type helper for a primitive type can inherit from a record > helper of the same type, internally they're all the same) > but in this example you have differ

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 29.08.2017 22:06, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: And actually, duplication of effort has a good side: in a way, the IDE independently 'checks' the working of the compiler. Unfortunately the reality is the other way round: the compiler checks the working of CodeTools :) Positive is that CodeTo

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 29.08.2017 21:50, Maciej Izak wrote: 2017-08-29 20:24 GMT+02:00 Ondrej Pokorny >: No - please not yet another undefined behavior :) It's perfectly defined: disabled without typehelpers, enabled with typehelpers. but in the case of strictly defined rule

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On Tue, 29 Aug 2017, Maciej Izak wrote: 2017-08-29 17:51 GMT+02:00 Ondrej Pokorny : On 29.08.2017 17:47, Anthony Walter wrote: Out of curiosity, is there any strategy that is or can be employed to ensure new language features and mode switches automatically work with codetools and by extens

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

2017-08-29 17:51 GMT+02:00 Ondrej Pokorny : > On 29.08.2017 17:47, Anthony Walter wrote: > > Out of curiosity, is there any strategy that is or can be employed to > ensure new language features and mode switches automatically work with > codetools and by extension the Lazarus IDE? > > Or is duplic

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

2017-08-29 20:24 GMT+02:00 Ondrej Pokorny : > No - please not yet another undefined behavior :) > > It's perfectly defined: disabled without typehelpers, enabled with > typehelpers. > but in the case of strictly defined rules we must to do as Sven said: "Namely that it enabled the "type helper"

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 29.08.2017 20:20, Maciej Izak wrote: IMO inheritance for record helpers in Delphi mode has no really meaning and may stay as undefined behavior No - please not yet another undefined behavior :) It's perfectly defined: disabled without typehelpers, enabled with typehelpers. Ondrej ___

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

2017-08-29 18:54 GMT+02:00 Sven Barth via fpc-devel < fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org>: > Maybe it would indeed make more sense to adjust the meaning of the > typehelpers modeswitch in mode Delphi... Namely that it enabled the "type > helper" syntax including the inheritance. But the record helpers

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 29.08.2017 18:54, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: Am 29.08.2017 17:39 schrieb "Ondrej Pokorny" >: > So yes, your description of {$modeswitch typehelpers} makes sense for 3.0.0 but not for trunk any more. So what is your intention - 3.0.0 behavior or trunk behavior?

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Am 29.08.2017 17:39 schrieb "Ondrej Pokorny" : > So yes, your description of {$modeswitch typehelpers} makes sense for 3.0.0 but not for trunk any more. So what is your intention - 3.0.0 behavior or trunk behavior? Maybe it would indeed make more sense to adjust the meaning of the typehelpers mode

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 29.08.2017 17:47, Anthony Walter wrote: Out of curiosity, is there any strategy that is or can be employed to ensure new language features and mode switches automatically work with codetools and by extension the Lazarus IDE? Or is duplication of effort the only way to get codetools properly

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Out of curiosity, is there any strategy that is or can be employed to ensure new language features and mode switches automatically work with codetools and by extension the Lazarus IDE? Or is duplication of effort the only way to get codetools properly parsing new language features? ___

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

There is a difference between FPC 3.0.0 and current trunk (without my patch) regarding {$modeswitch typehelpers} and "TXYZHelper = type helper for TXYZ". In 3.0.0 it is obvious - it can be used only for primitive types. In trunk you can use type helper for everything (with {$modeswitch typehel

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Am 29.08.2017 12:44 schrieb "Ondrej Pokorny" : > > On 29.08.2017 11:48, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: >> >> The idea is okay as well, but I'd name it RecordHelperInheritance, cause if we'd allow "type helper" in mode Delphi (as Maciej asks) then those would support inheritance by default as they

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 29.08.2017 12:44, Ondrej Pokorny wrote: {$modeswitch advancedrecords-} // it doesn't disable record helper for TRec Sorry, typo: "it disables record helper for TRec ". Ondrej ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 29.08.2017 11:48, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: The idea is okay as well, but I'd name it RecordHelperInheritance, cause if we'd allow "type helper" in mode Delphi (as Maciej asks) then those would support inheritance by default as they aren't Delphi compatible as a whole anyway. Actuall

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Am 29.08.2017 10:37 schrieb "Ondrej Pokorny" : > > On 29.08.2017 8:47, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: >> >> On Tue, 29 Aug 2017, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: >> >>> Suggested name is "NonDelphiExtensions". >> >> >> Why not simply allow $RECORDHELPERS or so ? > > > Hmm yes. Reading https://www.freepa

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Am 29.08.2017 08:47 schrieb "Michael Van Canneyt" : > > > > On Tue, 29 Aug 2017, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: > >> Am 28.08.2017 23:11 schrieb "Ondrej Pokorny" : >>> >>> >>> Hello! >>> >>> I find it unnecessary to disable record helper inheritance in Delphi >> >> mode. Due to this artificial li

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 29.08.2017 10:43, Maciej Izak wrote: I prefer to have also "type helper for" also in Dlephi mode instead of "record helper for" for simple types. Different syntax for the same thing is very annoying especially when someone need to work in many modes. -,- I don't care about the syntax that

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

2017-08-29 10:37 GMT+02:00 Ondrej Pokorny : > Hmm yes. Reading https://www.freepascal.org/doc > s-html/3.0.2/prog/progsu105.html you can define other non-delphi > extensions for the Delphi mode (like NESTEDCOMMENTS). > > Maybe it would be more clear to name the modeswitch TYPEHELPERINHERITANCE > a

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 29.08.2017 8:47, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: On Tue, 29 Aug 2017, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: Suggested name is "NonDelphiExtensions". Why not simply allow $RECORDHELPERS or so ? Hmm yes. Reading https://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/3.0.2/prog/progsu105.html you can define other non

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On 29.08.2017 7:54, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: patches welcome. Suggested name is "NonDelphiExtensions" Good to know, thanks. Luckily it wasn't that hard: https://mantis.freepascal.org/view.php?id=32355 Ondrej ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-de

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On Tue, 29 Aug 2017, Sven Barth via fpc-devel wrote: Am 28.08.2017 23:11 schrieb "Ondrej Pokorny" : Hello! I find it unnecessary to disable record helper inheritance in Delphi mode. Due to this artificial limitation I have to change unit mode from Delphi to ObjFPC. Reasons: 1.) It's a l

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Am 28.08.2017 23:11 schrieb "Ondrej Pokorny" : > > Hello! > > I find it unnecessary to disable record helper inheritance in Delphi mode. Due to this artificial limitation I have to change unit mode from Delphi to ObjFPC. > > Reasons: > 1.) It's a limitation of a feature that FPC already has. > 2.)

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

On Mon, 28 Aug 2017, Ondrej Pokorny wrote: Hello! I find it unnecessary to disable record helper inheritance in Delphi mode. Due to this  artificial limitation I have to change unit mode from Delphi to ObjFPC. Reasons: 1.) It's a limitation of a feature that FPC already has. 2.) I write F

Re: [fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Ondrej, I agree 100%. Many +1s. Thank you. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel

[fpc-devel] Allow record helper inheritance in Delphi mode

Hello! I find it unnecessary to disable record helper inheritance in Delphi mode. Due to this  artificial limitation I have to change unit mode from Delphi to ObjFPC. Reasons: 1.) It's a limitation of a feature that FPC already has. 2.) I write FPC-only code in Delphi mode. I don't care about