[Framers] Long-time FM Unstructured User Needs Structured Advice

[Jay Mahler]

Hi, All,

I've been using FM since Version 3, but I haven't had to use it much lately (as 
a matter of fact, I'll need to sign up for a new license). When Structured FM 
first came out, I checked it out but decided that the steep learning curve 
wasn't worth it for the documents I was writing. Now, I have a document need 
that looks perfect for Structured, and I need to ask the experts some 
questions. I'll be preparing some manufacturing process sheets that have a 
standard format with a couple of images and limited, standard text fields. I'd 
like to create a document that's easy for manufacturing engineers to maintain, 
so I'm thinking that the appropriate approach is to create an Access database 
with required text fields and links to the images using a form for MEs to 
update/add process sheets (currently, the MEs have an Excel spreadsheet with 
each process sheet as a separate worksheet). If I remember correctly, 
Structured FM can easily generate pages based on database rows. My questions 
are:

  *   Does this sound like an appropriate plan?
  *   Are there templates available that I can modify?
  *   Any suggested learning tools for me?

Thanks,
Jay Mahler
734-645-6298

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Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs

[Jay Mahler]

I've also created manual thumb tabs in unstructured FM. I put the tabs on both 
right and left master pages, and I manually moved them for each chapter. The 
big downside is when I added or moved chapters, which happened quite often in 
one very large manual.

Jay Mahler
734-645-6298

Sent from Outlook<http://taps.io/outlookmobile> Mobile
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Re: [Framers] Printing FM12 to PDF -- Page numbering issue

[Jay Mahler]

Tom,

I've used Rick's PageLabeler plug-in for a long time, and it's great. I print a 
large book as both a single PDF and as individual chapters, and the plug-in 
accommodates both styles when using Chapter-pageNo numbering. I'm using it on 
FM10.

Jay
--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 12:17:32 -0500
From: tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Printing FM12 to PDF -- Page numbering issue
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I recently saw a pdf document that used small Roman numerals for title page and 
front matter (per Chicago Manual of Style) with rest of book in normal numbers. 
When in the PDF, if you were in the front matter, the page number in 
Acrobat/Reader would display the Roman numerals and Numeric when you were in 
the rest of the manual, so that the page number in the Reader page navigation 
toolbar always matched the actual page in the document.

For the life of me, I can't figure out how the writer did that (I don't know if 
the document was created in FM). If I set front matter pages in Roman numerals 
and Chapter pages in Numeric, then print the book to pdf, I only see 
consecutive pages in the toolbar (e.g. ii is shown as 2 in the toolbar).

Am I trying to do something that you can't do when printing FM to PDF?




Tom Beiswenger
Manager, Technical & Training Documentation, Project Manager - Inspection 
Business Emhart Glass Mfg. Inc.
1140 Sullivan St.
Elmira, NY 14901
PH: +607 735-4279
FX: +607 734-8278
Mobile: +607 769-4779
Email: tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 12:43:18 -0500
From: "Rick Quatro" 
To: ,   
Subject: Re: [Framers] Printing FM12 to PDF -- Page numbering issue
Message-ID: <00a201d15217$b8e8b940$2aba2bc0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Tom,

 

You can do it manually in Acrobat Professional by using the menu under the Page 
Thumbnails panel (on the left side of the screen). The command is called Number 
Pages. When you get tired of doing it manually, take a look at my PageLabelerES 
script. Here is a link to it on my web store; I will send you the documentation 
offlist. Thanks.

 

https://www.swreg.org/com/storefront/30731/

 

Rick

 

Rick Quatro

Carmen Publishing Inc.

585-366-4017

r...@frameexpert.com

 

From: Framers [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of 
tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 12:18 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Printing FM12 to PDF -- Page numbering issue

 

I recently saw a pdf document that used small Roman numerals for title page and 
front matter (per Chicago Manual of Style) with rest of book in normal numbers. 
When in the PDF, if you were in the front matter, the page number in 
Acrobat/Reader would display the Roman numerals and Numeric when you were in 
the rest of the manual, so that the page number in the Reader page navigation 
toolbar always matched the actual page in the document. 

For the life of me, I can't figure out how the writer did that (I don't know if 
the document was created in FM). If I set front matter pages in Roman numerals 
and Chapter pages in Numeric, then print the book to pdf, I only see 
consecutive pages in the toolbar (e.g. ii is shown as 2 in the toolbar).


Am I trying to do something that you can't do when printing FM to PDF? 




Tom Beiswenger
Manager, Technical & Training Documentation, Project Manager - Inspection 
Business Emhart Glass Mfg. Inc.
1140 Sullivan St.
Elmira, NY 14901
PH: +607 735-4279
FX: +607 734-8278
Mobile: +607 769-4779
Email: tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com

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Re: Auto-rotate pages in PDF (Art Campbell)

[Jay Mahler]

Art, 
Thanks for the suggestion, but the PDF version is out of my control. This is a 
document going to a large Federal agency, and that is what they require because 
of their old systems. Besides, I ran a test with PDF Compatibility set to 
Acrobat 8.0 (PDF 1.7), and it made no difference. 

Anyone have any other suggestions?

Jay
--

Message: 23
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 08:25:08 -0400
From: Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com
To: Jay Mahler j...@mahler.com
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Auto-rotate pages in PDF
Message-ID:
CAOW=E1eWEZcyQvcG6j8Ct3sKd85X=opEsxTfUtNYNz1vVx=e...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Have you tried a different Acrobat level? Compatibility with version 5
would be 6 generations old -- pre XP, I think.
I think you'd be safe with v 8 or 9, and it may make a difference just
because so many features have been added since v 5 that the inserted code
may be obtuse.

Art Campbell
  art.campb...@gmail.com
  ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and
a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson
  No disclaimers apply.
   DoD 358

I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news for Groton MA.


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 11:50 AM, Jay Mahler j...@mahler.com wrote:

 Framers,

 I'm stumped again. I'm running FM9 V9.0p237 and Acrobat Distiller 9.5.1283
 on Win7.

 I'm distilling a large file that mostly has portrait pages with some
 embedded landscape pages. The file is set up so that Apply Master Pages
 automatically sets the appropriate  portrait/landscape orientation after
 edits. When I review the pages in FM, they all  have correct orientation.
 When I generate the PDF, the landscape pages are generated as if they are
 portrait (they are cut off on the right and left). The Distiller job
 settings has Compatibility set to Acrobat 5.0 (PDF 1.4) and
 Auto-Rotate Pages set to Individually. The other options shouldn't
 really matter.

 My client is still using FM8 (I save as FM8 when I return files), but she
 has Acrobat 11 installed. She can correctly generate the PDF for the same
 files.

 This has worked for me in the past with these files (a couple of years ago
 with FM9). Has anyone run into this issue?

 Jay
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Auto-rotate pages in PDF

[Jay Mahler]

Framers,

I'm stumped again. I'm running FM9 V9.0p237 and Acrobat Distiller 9.5.1283 on 
Win7.

I'm distilling a large file that mostly has portrait pages with some embedded 
landscape pages. The file is set up so that Apply Master Pages automatically 
sets the appropriate  portrait/landscape orientation after edits. When I review 
the pages in FM, they all  have correct orientation. When I generate the PDF, 
the landscape pages are generated as if they are portrait (they are cut off on 
the right and left). The Distiller job settings has Compatibility set to 
Acrobat 5.0 (PDF 1.4) and Auto-Rotate Pages set to Individually. The 
other options shouldn't really matter.

My client is still using FM8 (I save as FM8 when I return files), but she has 
Acrobat 11 installed. She can correctly generate the PDF for the same files.

This has worked for me in the past with these files (a couple of years ago with 
FM9). Has anyone run into this issue?

Jay
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Auto-rotate pages in PDF (Art Campbell)

[Jay Mahler]

Art, 
Thanks for the suggestion, but the PDF version is out of my control. This is a 
document going to a large Federal agency, and that is what they require because 
of their old systems. Besides, I ran a test with PDF Compatibility set to 
"Acrobat 8.0 (PDF 1.7)," and it made no difference. 

Anyone have any other suggestions?

Jay
--

Message: 23
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 08:25:08 -0400
From: Art Campbell <art.campb...@gmail.com>
To: Jay Mahler 
Cc: "framers at lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: Re: Auto-rotate pages in PDF
Message-ID:

Auto-rotate pages in PDF

[Jay Mahler]

Framers,

I'm stumped again. I'm running FM9 V9.0p237 and Acrobat Distiller 9.5.1283 on 
Win7.

I'm distilling a large file that mostly has portrait pages with some embedded 
landscape pages. The file is set up so that "Apply Master Pages" automatically 
sets the appropriate  portrait/landscape orientation after edits. When I review 
the pages in FM, they all  have correct orientation. When I generate the PDF, 
the landscape pages are generated as if they are portrait (they are cut off on 
the right and left). The Distiller job settings has "Compatibility" set to 
"Acrobat 5.0 (PDF 1.4)" and "Auto-Rotate Pages" set to "Individually." The 
other options shouldn't really matter.

My client is still using FM8 (I save as FM8 when I return files), but she has 
Acrobat 11 installed. She can correctly generate the PDF for the same files.

This has worked for me in the past with these files (a couple of years ago with 
FM9). Has anyone run into this issue?

Jay

RE: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

[Jay Mahler]

I'm not sure what you mean by isn't this just as simple as changing
the paragraph setting of your second and subsequent lines to start at the
point of the end of the leader dot's of the first line?  If I understand what 
you are saying, wouldn't we end up with a long indent on those lines?

On Jerilynne's comment, 

Another way I've done this is to insert at least 3 tab characters (not tab
stops) before the page number. Maybe that will give you a bit of automation
for those long entries.

... Jerilynne means, on the reference page for the TOC or other generated
file.

this is something that I tried long ago, and it never worked for me. As a 
matter of fact these LOT and LOF reference page entries already had three tab 
characters in them. Adding more didn't help.  

Again, the problem arises when the title is just long enough to break the line 
before the chapter-page number without bringing any text to the second line. 
The only solution that appears to work reliably is to put a variable with 
several em spaces as its definition. On some titles, adding non-breaking 
space(s) to bring one or more words to the second line improves readability. 


Jay Mahler
Sent from my iPad

On Jun 18, 2013, at 1:01 PM, framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com 
framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com wrote:

 RE: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists
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The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

[Jay Mahler]

I'm not sure what you mean by "isn't this just as simple as changing
the paragraph setting of your second and subsequent lines to start at the
point of the end of the leader dot's of the first line?"  If I understand what 
you are saying, wouldn't we end up with a long indent on those lines?

On Jerilynne's comment, 

"Another way I've done this is to insert at least 3 tab characters (not tab
stops) before the page number. Maybe that will give you a bit of automation
for those long entries.

... Jerilynne means, "on the reference page" for the TOC or other generated
file."

this is something that I tried long ago, and it never worked for me. As a 
matter of fact these LOT and LOF reference page entries already had three tab 
characters in them. Adding more didn't help.  

Again, the problem arises when the title is just long enough to break the line 
before the chapter-page number without bringing any text to the second line. 
The only solution that appears to work reliably is to put a variable with 
several em spaces as its definition. On some titles, adding non-breaking 
space(s) to bring one or more words to the second line improves readability. 


Jay Mahler
Sent from my iPad

On Jun 18, 2013, at 1:01 PM, "framers-request at lists.frameusers.com" 
 wrote:

> RE: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

[Jay Mahler]

After sending my previous email, I found a solution. I simply added a variable with three em spaces (\sm\sm\sm) at the end of the long titles. For some reason, just adding the em spaces directly on the line didn't work. If anyone has a more elegant solution, I'd love to know about it.Jay MahlerSent from my iPad--Message: 5Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 11:02:37 -0400From: Jay Mahler j...@mahler.comTo: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" framers@lists.frameusers.comSubject: The Problem with Long Titles in Generated ListsMessage-ID:2827841e8340f047862e0808ef03c9d9278fcc3...@winxbeus16.exchange.xchgContent-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"I'm sure you've all had the problem with TOCs, LOTs, LOFs, and even indexes. When the title reaches the end of the line (or too many index entries), the tab character that should position the page number at right aligned tab doesn't work, and the page number appears left justified on the second line with or without continued text. I've always gone through and manually fixed the issue by inserting soft returns after the lists are generated, but I have a client with a huge document and LOTs and LOFs that are 20 pages each. Has anyone figured out an automated way to fix this problem? My experiments haven't turned up a solution.Also, since I'm sure this isn't the first time someone has asked this question, I wanted to search old posts and the archives. I can't figure out how to do that other than looking at each month manually. Is there a search tool available somewhere?Jay Mahler734-645-6298___


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The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

[Jay Mahler]

I'm sure you've all had the problem with TOCs, LOTs, LOFs, and even indexes. 
When the title reaches the end of the line (or too many index entries), the tab 
character that should position the page number at right aligned tab doesn't 
work, and the page number appears left justified on the second line with or 
without continued text. I've always gone through and manually fixed the issue 
by inserting soft returns after the lists are generated, but I have a client 
with a huge document and LOTs and LOFs that are 20 pages each. Has anyone 
figured out an automated way to fix this problem? My experiments haven't turned 
up a solution.

Also, since I'm sure this isn't the first time someone has asked this question, 
I wanted to search old posts and the archives. I can't figure out how to do 
that other than looking at each month manually. Is there a search tool 
available somewhere?

Jay Mahler
734-645-6298

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The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

[Jay Mahler]

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

The Problem with Long Titles in Generated Lists

[Jay Mahler]

I'm sure you've all had the problem with TOCs, LOTs, LOFs, and even indexes. 
When the title reaches the end of the line (or too many index entries), the tab 
character that should position the page number at right aligned tab doesn't 
work, and the page number appears left justified on the second line with or 
without continued text. I've always gone through and manually fixed the issue 
by inserting soft returns after the lists are generated, but I have a client 
with a huge document and LOTs and LOFs that are 20 pages each. Has anyone 
figured out an automated way to fix this problem? My experiments haven't turned 
up a solution.

Also, since I'm sure this isn't the first time someone has asked this question, 
I wanted to search old posts and the archives. I can't figure out how to do 
that other than looking at each month manually. Is there a search tool 
available somewhere?

Jay Mahler
734-645-6298

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RE: Searching the archive

[Jay Mahler]

Thanks Alan and Mike.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find the discussion that I needed. I guess I
just couldn't come up with the correct search string.

Here's my issue...

Using FM10 as part of TCS 3.5
Win 7

I'm creating very large, detailed, programmer-level documentation. It
seems best to include some material in more than one location in the
manual. Of course, I want single-source. Because of the different
heading levels at which the material will appear, it seems best to
insert these snippets as FM files within the two or three relevant
chapters. Just including the snippet files in the book doesn't work well
in this scenario, so I was thinking of using text inserts of FM files
within the chapter files.

The problem that I'm having is setting up cross-references and indexes
within these snippet inserts. I'd also like to use newlink markers in
the snippets and have gotolink markers reference the correct location
where a snippet appears. I'm using gotolink because I want the reader of
the PDF to be able to jump to the reference without having actual
cross-reference text inserted.

I know that I'm asking for a lot here. Does anyone have suggestions for
one or more of these issues?

Jay



-Original Message-
From: Alan T Litchfield [mailto:a...@alphabyte.co.nz] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 9:00 PM
To: Jay Mahler
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Searching the archive

The archives are here:
http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers/

Use Google to search the archives like this (say you want to find post
that include the word virtualbox):
site:lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers virtualbox

This gives something like:
http://bit.ly/KEyxcS

HIH
Alan

On 28/06/12 6:05 AM, Jay Mahler wrote:
 Framers,

 I mostly just lurk here, but I need to find an answer to a question 
 that I know has been discussed. Unfortunately, I can't find how to 
 search old posts or archives. What am I missing?

 Jay Mahler



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http://www.alphabyte.co.nz


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Searching the archive

[Jay Mahler]

Thanks Alan and Mike.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find the discussion that I needed. I guess I
just couldn't come up with the correct search string.

Here's my issue...

Using FM10 as part of TCS 3.5
Win 7

I'm creating very large, detailed, programmer-level documentation. It
seems best to include some material in more than one location in the
manual. Of course, I want single-source. Because of the different
heading levels at which the material will appear, it seems best to
insert these snippets as FM files within the two or three relevant
chapters. Just including the snippet files in the book doesn't work well
in this scenario, so I was thinking of using text inserts of FM files
within the chapter files.

The problem that I'm having is setting up cross-references and indexes
within these snippet inserts. I'd also like to use newlink markers in
the snippets and have gotolink markers reference the correct location
where a snippet appears. I'm using gotolink because I want the reader of
the PDF to be able to jump to the reference without having actual
cross-reference text inserted.

I know that I'm asking for a lot here. Does anyone have suggestions for
one or more of these issues?

Jay



-Original Message-
From: Alan T Litchfield [mailto:a...@alphabyte.co.nz] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 9:00 PM
To: Jay Mahler
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Searching the archive

The archives are here:
http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers/

Use Google to search the archives like this (say you want to find post
that include the word virtualbox):
site:lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers virtualbox

This gives something like:
http://bit.ly/KEyxcS

HIH
Alan

On 28/06/12 6:05 AM, Jay Mahler wrote:
> Framers,
>
> I mostly just lurk here, but I need to find an answer to a question 
> that I know has been discussed. Unfortunately, I can't find how to 
> search old posts or archives. What am I missing?
>
> Jay Mahler
>
>
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as alan at alphabyte.co.nz.
>
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com
> or visit 
> http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alan%40alphabyte.c
> o.nz
>
> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit 
> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>

--
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941, Auckland
http://www.alphabyte.co.nz

Searching the archive

[Jay Mahler]

Framers,

 

I mostly just lurk here, but I need to find an answer to a question that
I know has been discussed. Unfortunately, I can't find how to search old
posts or archives. What am I missing?

 

Jay Mahler

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Searching the archive

[Jay Mahler]

Framers,



I mostly just lurk here, but I need to find an answer to a question that
I know has been discussed. Unfortunately, I can't find how to search old
posts or archives. What am I missing?



Jay Mahler

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RE: A simple numbering question

[Jay Mahler]

Andy,

To answer your question, yes, you need to reset your list numbering in every 
paragraph type that could come between numbered lists. This generally isn't a 
large set of tags for the document formats I use. I often have a Numbered-cont 
paragraph tag that I use when numbered items may end up being more than one 
paragraph. This paragraph style indents and doesn't clear any of the 
auto-numbers. 

Regarding your example of a figure anchor paragraph, I generally try to avoid 
this technique. I know many Framers use a special anchor paragraph to keep 
figure numbers/captions with the anchored frame, but I prefer to put the anchor 
at the end of the paragraph that first references the figure. To keep the 
figure number with the anchored frame, I'll put a text frame inside of the 
graphic anchored frame at the bottom and house the figure caption inside the 
graphic's anchored frame. 

Frankly, all of my clients lately have had predefined templates that use the 
Numbered-1, Numbered, etc., and Anchor paragraph techniques, so I haven't 
practiced what I'm preaching here in several years.

Regarding your second point, the last time I did this, I used a fairly complex 
auto-numbering series. For example, assume that I have a document that requires 
a chapter numbers, Heading 1 numbers, and Heading 2 numbers, Numbered list, 
Lettered (sub) lists, Figure numbers, and Table numbers, the auto-number 
formats would be something like this:

Chapter: N:n+ =0 =0 =0 =0 =0 =0
Heading 1: N:n.n+ =0 =0 =0
Heading  2: N:n.n.n+ =0 =0
Body: N:=0 =0
Numbered: N:n+ =0
Lettered: N: a+
Figure: Figure n-n+ 
Table: Table n- n+

This assumes that figure and table numbers have the chapter-number format, 
and they reset to one for each new chapter. I don't remember if I needed the 
empty   for Figure and Table numbers on paragraph tags that didn't reset or 
use those numbers.

I guess the bottom line is that this auto-numbering style is more complex, but 
you only need to do it once. With the explicit set to one numbering, you're 
always having to select one of two style for each type of numbering. You also 
need to revisit the paragraph style if you ever enter a new Numbered-1 above 
the old one.

Jay
-Original Message-
From: Andy Kass [mailto:ak...@jaspersoft.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 4:25 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com; Jay Mahler
Subject: RE: A simple numbering question

Hi,

At first, I really liked Jay's idea. Those NumberedFirst and NumberedAlphaFirst 
para tags in my own templates have been bothering me for quite a while.

But the more I think about it, the less I think it is practical, or even 
possible. I see two problems:

1. With this solution, you need to reset your list numbering in every paragraph 
type that could come between numbered lists, but not in ones that are allowed 
inside a numbered list. And I'm not sure those two groups are mutually 
exclusive. For example, I could have a figure (in my figure anchor paragraph) 
both as a separator (and nothing else) between procedures and as a illustration 
inside a procedure.

2. Any tag that may separate numbered lists (by itself) cannot have its own 
numbering (because paragraphs can have only one autonumber series). So I cannot 
use headings alone between lists, unless I put all my autonumbering into a 
single series, but that would be even more confusing.

I am wondering how you solved these problems. From what I see, you need to have 
usage rules such as always put an intro paragraph or instruction lead-in 
before a procedure (so that lists are separated and numbering is reset), or you 
need a more complicated numbering format on all your tags. And both of those 
seem more complex and error-prone than the NumberedFirst para tags.

Thanks,

  Andy

--
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 13:58:56 -0400
From: Jay Mahler j...@mahler.com
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: A simple numbering question
Message-ID:
2827841e8340f047862e0808ef03c9d91e75448...@winxbeus16.exchange.xchg
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I agree. Zeroing lists with Body tags and some lists on each chapter or header 
tag is something I highly recommend. My Numbering format for Body tags often 
look something like this: N: =0 =0 =0

Then, I can have simple formats for Numbered, Numbered-A, Numbered-a, etc. 
There is nothing I hate more than a template required by a client that has a 
bunch of Numbered-1, Numbered; Numbered-A-1, Numbered-A, etc. formats. It just 
makes the document harder to maintain.

Jay Mahler
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A simple numbering question

[Jay Mahler]

Andy,

To answer your question, yes, you need to reset your list numbering in every 
paragraph type that could come between numbered lists. This generally isn't a 
large set of tags for the document formats I use. I often have a Numbered-cont 
paragraph tag that I use when numbered items may end up being more than one 
paragraph. This paragraph style indents and doesn't clear any of the 
auto-numbers. 

Regarding your example of a figure anchor paragraph, I generally try to avoid 
this technique. I know many Framers use a special anchor paragraph to keep 
figure numbers/captions with the anchored frame, but I prefer to put the anchor 
at the end of the paragraph that first references the figure. To keep the 
figure number with the anchored frame, I'll put a text frame inside of the 
graphic anchored frame at the bottom and house the figure caption inside the 
graphic's anchored frame. 

Frankly, all of my clients lately have had predefined templates that use the 
Numbered-1, Numbered, etc., and Anchor paragraph techniques, so I haven't 
practiced what I'm preaching here in several years.

Regarding your second point, the last time I did this, I used a fairly complex 
auto-numbering series. For example, assume that I have a document that requires 
a chapter numbers, Heading 1 numbers, and Heading 2 numbers, Numbered list, 
Lettered (sub) lists, Figure numbers, and Table numbers, the auto-number 
formats would be something like this:

Chapter: N:<n+>< =0>< =0>< =0>< =0>< =0>< =0>
Heading 1: N:.<n+>< =0>< =0>< =0>
Heading  2: N:..<n+>< =0>< =0>
Body: N:< >< >< >< =0>< =0>
Numbered: N: < >< >< ><n+>< =0>
Lettered: N: < >< >< >< ><a+>
Figure: Figure -< >< >< >< ><n+> 
Table: Table -< >< >< >< >< ><n+>

This assumes that figure and table numbers have the - format, 
and they reset to one for each new chapter. I don't remember if I needed the 
empty < > for Figure and Table numbers on paragraph tags that didn't reset or 
use those numbers.

I guess the bottom line is that this auto-numbering style is more complex, but 
you only need to do it once. With the explicit set to one numbering, you're 
always having to select one of two style for each type of numbering. You also 
need to revisit the paragraph style if you ever enter a new Numbered-1 above 
the old one.

Jay
-Original Message-
From: Andy Kass [mailto:ak...@jaspersoft.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 4:25 PM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com; Jay Mahler
Subject: RE: A simple numbering question

Hi,

At first, I really liked Jay's idea. Those NumberedFirst and NumberedAlphaFirst 
para tags in my own templates have been bothering me for quite a while.

But the more I think about it, the less I think it is practical, or even 
possible. I see two problems:

1. With this solution, you need to reset your list numbering in every paragraph 
type that could come between numbered lists, but not in ones that are allowed 
inside a numbered list. And I'm not sure those two groups are mutually 
exclusive. For example, I could have a figure (in my figure anchor paragraph) 
both as a separator (and nothing else) between procedures and as a illustration 
inside a procedure.

2. Any tag that may separate numbered lists (by itself) cannot have its own 
numbering (because paragraphs can have only one autonumber series). So I cannot 
use headings alone between lists, unless I put all my autonumbering into a 
single series, but that would be even more confusing.

I am wondering how you solved these problems. From what I see, you need to have 
usage rules such as "always put an intro paragraph or instruction lead-in" 
before a procedure (so that lists are separated and numbering is reset), or you 
need a more complicated numbering format on all your tags. And both of those 
seem more complex and error-prone than the NumberedFirst para tags.

Thanks,

  Andy

--
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 13:58:56 -0400
From: Jay Mahler <j...@mahler.com>
To: "framers at lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: RE: A simple numbering question
Message-ID:
<2827841E8340F047862E0808EF03C9D91E754488E8 at winxbeus16.exchange.xchg>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I agree. Zeroing lists with Body tags and some lists on each chapter or header 
tag is something I highly recommend. My Numbering format for Body tags often 
look something like this: N:< =0>< =0>< =0>

Then, I can have simple formats for Numbered, Numbered-A, Numbered-a, etc. 
There is nothing I hate more than a template required by a client that has a 
bunch of Numbered-1, Numbered; Numbered-A-1, Numbered-A, etc. formats. It just 
makes the document harder to maintain.

Jay Mahler

RE: A simple numbering question

[Jay Mahler]

I agree. Zeroing lists with Body tags and some lists on each chapter or header 
tag is something I highly recommend. My Numbering format for Body tags often 
look something like this: N: =0 =0 =0

Then, I can have simple formats for Numbered, Numbered-A, Numbered-a, etc. 
There is nothing I hate more than a template required by a client that has a 
bunch of Numbered-1, Numbered; Numbered-A-1, Numbered-A, etc. formats. It just 
makes the document harder to maintain.

Jay Mahler

-
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 07:55:45 -0700
From: Combs, Richard richard.co...@polycom.com
To: Joel eleys...@gmail.com, framers@lists.frameusers.com
framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: A simple numbering question
Message-ID:
c5d089c86687bc4dbbabe1cc5b3e45fccb535...@crpmboxprd01.polycom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Joel wrote:
 
 I want to produce the following paragraph tag results:
 
 A. Sentence A with the letter A and a period.
 B. The following sentence with the letter B and a period, but using 
 the same paragraph tag.
 
 Currently, I have two tags to accomplish this, with the following
 numbering:
 
 B:A=1.\t
 B:A+1.\t
 
 I would like one tag instead of two. I'm sure there is a better way, 
 can you suggest it? Thanks,

You can define the autonumber format of the preceding paragraph format to reset 
the numbering. In your case, like this: 

B: =0

You could define your standard body text format to reset the numbering, or 
maybe some/all heading formats. It depends on your template design, how this 
numbering series is used, and whether you have other numbering series. In the 
online help or manual, look up autonumbering, and in particular using counters, 
for more information. 

With a bit of careful thought, you can have multiple numbered lists that are 
all automatically restarted when appropriate without needing special paragraph 
formats to restart the numbering. 


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
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A simple numbering question

[Jay Mahler]

I agree. Zeroing lists with Body tags and some lists on each chapter or header 
tag is something I highly recommend. My Numbering format for Body tags often 
look something like this: N:< =0>< =0>< =0>

Then, I can have simple formats for Numbered, Numbered-A, Numbered-a, etc. 
There is nothing I hate more than a template required by a client that has a 
bunch of Numbered-1, Numbered; Numbered-A-1, Numbered-A, etc. formats. It just 
makes the document harder to maintain.

Jay Mahler

-
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 07:55:45 -0700
From: "Combs, Richard" <richard.co...@polycom.com>
To: Joel , "framers at lists.frameusers.com"

Subject: RE: A simple numbering question
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Joel wrote:

> I want to produce the following paragraph tag results:
> 
> A. Sentence A with the letter A and a period.
> B. The following sentence with the letter B and a period, but using 
> the same paragraph tag.
> 
> Currently, I have two tags to accomplish this, with the following
> numbering:
> 
> B:

More Frustrations with Robo8-FM9 in TCS2

[Jay Mahler]

Well, after several long conversations with Adobe technical support, I got 
RoboHelp to import FM books and files. It turns out that my registry was pretty 
messed. Ah, the plight of the technical writer with alpha-level software and 
innumerable geeky software products. I ended up reinstalling Win7 Pro, and 
after two days of installing required software, I was back in business.

Now, I'm still having strange Robo-FM linking (actually importing) problems. I 
am importing books into Robo because I want to be able to edit in either Robo 
or FM and have the edits reflected in the other source. I have a couple of 
issues:

* I'm setting the Pagination option for Heading1, Heading2, and 
Heading3 in the Conversion Settings dialog box. After import, Heading1 and 
Heading2 sections are in separate topics, but Heading3s and their text are 
within the Heading2 topic. Any suggestions on how to make this work correctly? 
I'd rather not go through and manually copy these sections to new topics. I 
doubt the automatic updating across products will survive that.

* I'm using a custom CSS, and it is specified in the Import drop-down 
of the Project Settings dialog box. When I try mapping from FM styles to 
RoboHelp Style in the Conversion Settings dialog box, the RoboHelp Style 
drop-down doesn't include additional styles defined in my custom CSS. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,

Jay Mahler
734-645-6298

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More Frustrations with Robo8-FM9 in TCS2

[Jay Mahler]

Well, after several long conversations with Adobe technical support, I got 
RoboHelp to import FM books and files. It turns out that my registry was pretty 
messed. Ah, the plight of the technical writer with alpha-level software and 
innumerable geeky software products. I ended up reinstalling Win7 Pro, and 
after two days of installing required software, I was back in business.

Now, I'm still having strange Robo-FM linking (actually importing) problems. I 
am importing books into Robo because I want to be able to edit in either Robo 
or FM and have the edits reflected in the other source. I have a couple of 
issues:

* I'm setting the "Pagination" option for Heading1, Heading2, and 
Heading3 in the Conversion Settings dialog box. After import, Heading1 and 
Heading2 sections are in separate topics, but Heading3s and their text are 
within the Heading2 topic. Any suggestions on how to make this work correctly? 
I'd rather not go through and manually copy these sections to new topics. I 
doubt the automatic updating across products will survive that.

* I'm using a custom CSS, and it is specified in the Import drop-down 
of the Project Settings dialog box. When I try mapping from FM styles to 
RoboHelp Style in the Conversion Settings dialog box, the RoboHelp Style 
drop-down doesn't include additional styles defined in my custom CSS. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,

Jay Mahler
734-645-6298

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Unable to install RoboHelp plugin for FrameMaker

[Jay Mahler]

I have TCS2 on a 64-bit Win7 system. I'm having the same problems that Anne 
discussed in this thread http://forums.adobe.com/message/3473915#3473915. I 
tried the modification to maker.ini that is listed in that thread, and I've 
tried reinstalling the FM9 and RH8 components from the TCS2 installation DVD. 
I'm still getting the Unable to install RoboHelp plugin for FrameMaker 
message. Like Anne, this is happening when I try to Link a book for FM file to 
an existing, empty project or when I try to Import the FrameMaker book from the 
RH Starter screen.

 Any ideas?
Jay Mahler
734-645-6298

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Unable to install RoboHelp plugin for FrameMaker

[Jay Mahler]

I have TCS2 on a 64-bit Win7 system. I'm having the same problems that Anne 
discussed in this thread http://forums.adobe.com/message/3473915#3473915. I 
tried the modification to maker.ini that is listed in that thread, and I've 
tried reinstalling the FM9 and RH8 components from the TCS2 installation DVD. 
I'm still getting the "Unable to install RoboHelp plugin for FrameMaker" 
message. Like Anne, this is happening when I try to Link a book for FM file to 
an existing, empty project or when I try to Import the FrameMaker book from the 
RH Starter screen.

 Any ideas?
Jay Mahler
734-645-6298

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