Re: Fameusers: Mixed Structured / Unstructured and xrefs

[Lin Sims]

Orly,

Chip registers are EXACTLY what those structured files are.

This is my first go around with using a mixed environment. What I've wound
up doing is keeping the structured generated files separate instead of
trying to copy them into the unstructured chapter file, and setting
numbering to Use Same Number as Previous Chapter. It messes the white
spaces up somewhat, but the xrefs work properly. Just as well, too, since
the designers use the same addresses for the different blocks and trying to
keep it in structured means that some of the xrefs won't work if they're
combined into the same file. 

On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 1:25 AM, Orly Zimmerman  wrote:

>  HI Lin,
>
> We have a similar process, where we generate FM files from XML sources for
> our chip register files. They are structured FM files. The functional specs
> for the same book are unstructured files. We run FM in structured mode.
>
> Auto cross ref’s work as they should – assuming they have the right
> elements to refer to.
>
> The files exist together fine in the structured environment. I had to
> tweak the headers on the Master pages to get the TOC right, but that works
> ok too.
>
> If you already have the files in structured FM with all the links working,
> I don’t see why you can’t have them co-exist with the unstructured files in
> FM. The engineers can get used to structured FM. Maybe create a small
> training session for them.
>
> HTH,
>
> Orly
>  --
>
> Orly Zimmerman, Marvell Israel - Technical Communicator
> Park Azorim, Kyriat Arie
> Petah Tikva, 49527, Israel
> Email: or...@marvell.com
> Office: +972.3.9703440 - OnNet: 705.3440
> Fax: +972.3.9704908
> Web site: http://www.marvell.com
>
>
> This message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged
> information. The information is intended only for the use of the individual
> or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
> copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received
> this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone or
> by e-mail and delete the message from your computer.
>  --
>



-- 
Lin Sims
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Fameusers: Mixed Structured / Unstructured and xrefs

[Orly Zimmerman]

HI Lin,
We have a similar process, where we generate FM files from XML sources for our 
chip register files. They are structured FM files. The functional specs for the 
same book are unstructured files. We run FM in structured mode.
Auto cross ref's work as they should - assuming they have the right elements to 
refer to.
The files exist together fine in the structured environment. I had to tweak the 
headers on the Master pages to get the TOC right, but that works ok too.
If you already have the files in structured FM with all the links working, I 
don't see why you can't have them co-exist with the unstructured files in FM. 
The engineers can get used to structured FM. Maybe create a small training 
session for them.
HTH,
Orly

Orly Zimmerman, Marvell Israel - Technical Communicator
Park Azorim, Kyriat Arie
Petah Tikva, 49527, Israel
Email: or...@marvell.com
Office: +972.3.9703440 - OnNet: 705.3440
Fax: +972.3.9704908
Web site: http://www.marvell.com

This message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged 
information. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or 
entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended 
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or 
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this 
communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone or by e-mail 
and delete the message from your computer.

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Re: Mixed Structured / Unstructured and xrefs

[Jang F.M. Graat]

Lin,

First remark, which of course you have figured out yourself: the person who 
decided to move from structured to unstructured FM should have his head 
examined (after being fired by the ones even higher in command who no longer 
want to waste their money). The engineers that complain about not being able to 
work in structured FM and preferring unstructured should also be fired, as 
their unstructured attitude will almost certainly lead to crappy product design 
in their own field of work.

That said, there is a way to use structured and unstructured FM in the same 
file and I have succesfully done it. You should NOT use the Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V 
keys as that will bring the content in through the clipboard and as Scott 
mentioned that operation will usually cause all kinds of nasty conversions to 
happen, which you want to avoid.

In my case, the specs for an API was delivered as a set of DITA files, 
generated from the source code by automated scripts (i.e. much the same way 
that you describe your process). The descriptive part of the specs had always 
been in unstrucured FM and is too large and unorganized to be converting 
everything to structured FM or DITA.

The DITA files, saved as structured FM files, were inserted into the 
unstructured FM files as text insets. There were index markers as well as 
cross-references and they all survived this insertion. Also, auto-generation of 
the ToC worked well across the entire file including all the text insets. The 
text insets were not made editable, as that defeats the purpose of generating 
them by an automated process. But they are getting updated automatically when 
the entire book is updated.

Let us know whether this method works for you.

Kind regards from Amsterdam

Jang

JANG Communication
Technical Documentation Specialist
Amsterdam - Netherlands
Cell +31 6 4685 4996
http://www.jang.nl

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Re: Mixed Structured / Unstructured and xrefs

[Lin Sims]

Yep, the file I'm importing to has no structure. I'm going to try adding it
and then importing again.

As to why, the highly condensed Readers Digest version is that the company
was moving to DITA using Frame, DITA-FMx, and a CCMS called Vasont. Then we
got bought. My engineers wanted to be able to edit the files while I was on
vacation, amongst other things, so someone higher up in the chain of
command demanded we pull the files out of structured and into unstructured,
which is where they are. The last time I had to do this, I jerked the XML
file with the cross-references out.

The spreadsheets, however, are still being converted into XML files because
it's a perl script which can write XML just fine but knows nothing of FM
binary or even MIF.

On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 5:29 PM, Scott Prentice  wrote:

>  Lin...
>
> It's likely breaking because the cross-refs are linking to "elements" in
> the original files, then when you paste into an unstructured file, there
> are no elements to link to. You'd need to run some process before pasting
> into the unstructured file which iterates over all cross-refs and relinks
> them to paras or markers instead of elements.
>
> I know you said not to ask .. but I'm not sure why you're converting the
> structured files into unstructured files. It's OK to have a book that
> contains both types of files (may not be a "best practice" but should
> work). As long as you're dealing with FM binary files, not XML files, you
> can mix and match as needed. Have you tried just adding the structured
> files to the book? You will need to enable the structured interface in FM
> in order to do this, but that should not have any adverse effect on your
> files. It's perfectly fine to edit unstructured files in the structured
> interface.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> ...scott
>
> On 10/30/14 1:53 PM, Lin Sims wrote:
>
>Bare bones background:
>
>  We have Excel spreadsheets that we convert to XML files using a script.
> The script also creates a ditamap for all the files and creates an XML file
> that contains a table that links to all the individual XML files.
>
>  We use DITAFMx to convert the ditamap and XML files to a single FM file
> (still in structured). At this point, the xrefs work just fine.
>
>  Here's the tricky part. I then import (by copy) the newly created FM
> files into an UNSTRUCTURED FM file (because that's what the rest of the
> book is in, and no, this is not currently an option to change, don't even
> ask, it's a MESS), which is opened in FM with the structured interface so
> that the structured information can be retained.
>
>  As soon as I copy those files into the container (unstructured) file, the
> xrefs break. I need those xrefs to NOT break, and I don't have time to
> relink 500 or so xrefs every time I create this book.
>
>  I've tried this on the FM install on my desktop, which uses the
> structured interface but is NOT in a DITA/structured environment, and the
> FM install on a server, which uses the structured interface and IS in a
> DITA/Structured environment.
>
> If I open the files on their own, they're fine. If I import them into the
> unstructured document, the links go bye-bye and I can't regenerate them.
>
>  I'm beyond frustrated. Any clues would be appreciated.
>
> --
> Lin Sims
>
>
>
>
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Re: Mixed Structured / Unstructured and xrefs

[Scott Prentice]

Lin...

It's likely breaking because the cross-refs are linking to "elements" in 
the original files, then when you paste into an unstructured file, there 
are no elements to link to. You'd need to run some process before 
pasting into the unstructured file which iterates over all cross-refs 
and relinks them to paras or markers instead of elements.


I know you said not to ask .. but I'm not sure why you're converting the 
structured files into unstructured files. It's OK to have a book that 
contains both types of files (may not be a "best practice" but should 
work). As long as you're dealing with FM binary files, not XML files, 
you can mix and match as needed. Have you tried just adding the 
structured files to the book? You will need to enable the structured 
interface in FM in order to do this, but that should not have any 
adverse effect on your files. It's perfectly fine to edit unstructured 
files in the structured interface.


Hope that helps.

...scott

On 10/30/14 1:53 PM, Lin Sims wrote:

Bare bones background:

We have Excel spreadsheets that we convert to XML files using a 
script. The script also creates a ditamap for all the files and 
creates an XML file that contains a table that links to all the 
individual XML files.


We use DITAFMx to convert the ditamap and XML files to a single FM 
file (still in structured). At this point, the xrefs work just fine.


Here's the tricky part. I then import (by copy) the newly created FM 
files into an UNSTRUCTURED FM file (because that's what the rest of 
the book is in, and no, this is not currently an option to change, 
don't even ask, it's a MESS), which is opened in FM with the 
structured interface so that the structured information can be retained.


As soon as I copy those files into the container (unstructured) file, 
the xrefs break. I need those xrefs to NOT break, and I don't have 
time to relink 500 or so xrefs every time I create this book.


I've tried this on the FM install on my desktop, which uses the 
structured interface but is NOT in a DITA/structured environment, and 
the FM install on a server, which uses the structured interface and IS 
in a DITA/Structured environment.


If I open the files on their own, they're fine. If I import them into 
the unstructured document, the links go bye-bye and I can't regenerate 
them.


I'm beyond frustrated. Any clues would be appreciated.

--
Lin Sims




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Mixed Structured / Unstructured and xrefs

[Lin Sims]

Bare bones background:

We have Excel spreadsheets that we convert to XML files using a script. The
script also creates a ditamap for all the files and creates an XML file
that contains a table that links to all the individual XML files.

We use DITAFMx to convert the ditamap and XML files to a single FM file
(still in structured). At this point, the xrefs work just fine.

Here's the tricky part. I then import (by copy) the newly created FM files
into an UNSTRUCTURED FM file (because that's what the rest of the book is
in, and no, this is not currently an option to change, don't even ask, it's
a MESS), which is opened in FM with the structured interface so that the
structured information can be retained.

As soon as I copy those files into the container (unstructured) file, the
xrefs break. I need those xrefs to NOT break, and I don't have time to
relink 500 or so xrefs every time I create this book.

I've tried this on the FM install on my desktop, which uses the structured
interface but is NOT in a DITA/structured environment, and the FM install
on a server, which uses the structured interface and IS in a
DITA/Structured environment.

If I open the files on their own, they're fine. If I import them into the
unstructured document, the links go bye-bye and I can't regenerate them.

I'm beyond frustrated. Any clues would be appreciated.

-- 
Lin Sims
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