anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
Fred said: > But the point remains that the best way to prepare depends greatly on > what your goals and objectives are. ... and went on to make several other excellent points. John said: > I think the single biggest obstacle to my adoption of Structured > FrameMaker has been exactly this sort of discussion. I have searched > and searched and failed to find a straightforward high-level doc that > tells me what the project is based on my business needs. That's because structure is a toolbox, not a product. If it was a product it would be fair to ask "how do I use it?", but it's not fair to decry a toolbox because it has no manual describing what it can fix. If you don't understand what you're trying to fix, then get a mechanic. (Okay, I've worn out the metaphor.) I recommend that people get a consultant for this stuff not only because I'm occasionally a consultant, but because in 15 years of SGML and XML projects, I've seen endless heartbreaking failures. > All I need is an article that introduces the various concepts and tells > me which structure concepts belong in my project and which I can safely > ignore for now: In order to establish which concepts belong in your project, you need first to evaluate the requirements and capabilities of your organisation, for example: o the capability of current staff, as well as the will to replace them if required, o the long-term requirements for data handling and use, o migration strategies from current systems, o ROI, o evaluation of emerging technical directions in data management, These are corporate decisions - once you get them sorted out, you could start looking at which concepts belong in your project, but as I'm sure you'd appreciate, the value of the advice is diluting quickly based on the corporate uncertainty. > Structured authoring can do many things. Here are some case studies. > > Alice needs A; here is an effective solution for A, using DITA. If it was that easy to decide on a strategy, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. The reason that these articles don't exist is that anyone with sufficient experience to write one knows that it would be irresponsible to do so. It would mislead people. Here's a real-world case study: The Australian DoD was in the market for some new helicopters. They settled on the Tiger from Eurocopter. One attraction was that the documentation would be delivered in S1000D format - a standard for SGML/XML data that the Australians are also very keen on. Perfect fit, right? Pretty much, except that there were a couple of discrepancies in the data. S1000D provides for modules to be nested at various depths. The Aussies settled on two depths but the portion of the data that came from France was nested to three levels, requiring transformation to try to shoe-horn into two levels. Oh yeah, after they translated all of the text out of French. Yep, they forgot to agree on the language that it would be delivered in. Saying that Dennis used DITA and Doris used DocBook is about as useful as saying that "today it's sunny in both Honalulu and Antarctica". It's the details that kill you. Marcus
anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
John wrote: > But all I get are: > > * Offerings from vendors claiming to be THE answer for all my needs even when they don't know what my needs may be. Yes, that fits the profile of a vendor all right. > * Endless extensive discussions from knowledgeable folk who tell me > all the grand glory of structure, but no answers at all. Hmmm, sounds like a worldwide conspiracy to keep knowledge from the person on the street. I feel a bit hurt - those damned knowledgeable folk never include me in their evil plots... :-) Marcus
Re: anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
--- Marcus Carr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why do you want to go to structured data? Good question (and good thoughts on the question), but that's a different topic. For the purposes of this topic, let's imagine that the reasons are sound. And in case I forget to mention it later, thanks for all your answers. Milan http://altmilan.blogspot.com http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
But the point remains that the best way to prepare depends greatly on what your goals and objectives are. Just as one example, if you are not planning to adopt topic-oriented authoring and topic-level reuse, then spending time learning about DITA would be a digression rather than progress toward whatever your real objective is. There are many different things that can be accomplished by the implementation and use of structure, and it is not necessary to know a lot about the techniques and workflows that don't relate to your specific business need. My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel. Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com) Intel Parsippany, NJ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Milan Davidovic Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:09 AM To: Frame Users Subject: Re: anticipating a move to Structrued Frame --- Marcus Carr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why do you want to go to structured data? Good question (and good thoughts on the question), but that's a different topic. For the purposes of this topic, let's imagine that the reasons are sound. And in case I forget to mention it later, thanks for all your answers. Milan http://altmilan.blogspot.com http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
--- Ridder, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But the point remains that the best way to prepare depends greatly on what your goals and objectives are. Would it be possible to discuss good ways rather than best ones and keep it all at a fairly high level? Or perhaps everything at the high level has already been said and we can move on. Thanks... PS. Structrued... I just saw that: ack! Milan http://altmilan.blogspot.com http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
One reason many of us are strong supporters of best practices is that it not only gets users working faster, but provides a better introduction to the complete theory of how to use a tool. --- Milan Davidovic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be possible to discuss good ways rather than best ones and keep it all at a fairly high level? Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
Fred said: But the point remains that the best way to prepare depends greatly on what your goals and objectives are. Just as one example, if you are not planning to adopt topic-oriented authoring and topic-level reuse, then spending time learning about DITA would be a digression rather than progress toward whatever your real objective is. There are many different things that can be accomplished by the implementation and use of structure, and it is not necessary to know a lot about the techniques and workflows that don't relate to your specific business need. ** I think the single biggest obstacle to my adoption of Structured FrameMaker has been exactly this sort of discussion. I have searched and searched and failed to find a straightforward high-level doc that tells me what the project is based on my business needs. It would make a fabulous Intercom article for STC members. In truth, it is up to Adobe, which has failed egregiously by producing a product and failing to market it (but there is no need to flog that dead horse again). All I need is an article that introduces the various concepts and tells me which structure concepts belong in my project and which I can safely ignore for now: Structured authoring can do many things. Here are some case studies. Alice needs A; here is an effective solution for A, using DITA. Ben needs B; here is an effective solution for B, using DocBook. Charlie needs C; here is an effective solution for C, using a modified DITA with this special XSLT. Anna B. Carruthers need D; here is an effective solution for D, ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
I agree - I do not need to know THE answer; I need to know AN answer that will do the trick. But all I get are: * Offerings from vendors claiming to be THE answer for all my needs even when they don't know what my needs may be. * Endless extensive discussions from knowledgeable folk who tell me all the grand glory of structure, but no answers at all. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Chris Borokowski Sent: Fri 3/16/2007 10:47 AM To: Frame Users Subject: RE: anticipating a move to Structrued Frame One reason many of us are strong supporters of best practices is that it not only gets users working faster, but provides a better introduction to the complete theory of how to use a tool. --- Milan Davidovic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be possible to discuss good ways rather than best ones and keep it all at a fairly high level? Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivata.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
--- John Sgammato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But the point remains that the best way to prepare depends greatly on what your goals and objectives are. Just as one example, if you are not planning to adopt topic-oriented authoring and topic-level reuse, then spending time learning about DITA would be a digression rather than progress toward whatever your real objective is. There are many different things that can be accomplished by the implementation and use of structure, and it is not necessary to know a lot about the techniques and workflows that don't relate to your specific business need. == The trouble is business needs tend to change. Information reuse, topic-level authoring, content management systems, the capability to deliver to a user exactly what the user needs to perform a particular task, and the addition of metadata (attributes) to further facilitate infomation management have enormous potential, and some or all of these reatures are likely to become future requirements in your companies busines model. Unstructured docs do not fit well in those future models for many reasons, and conversion of unstructured docs to structured ones is usually an onerous and unsatisfactory process. So, it makes sense to initially select (or develop)adopt a DTD/schema which is adaptable to likely (or even possible) future business requirements. Otherwise, down the line, you are likely to face an embarassing fiasco. Although there are many advantages to structure, the most compelling reason to move in that direction is that it anticipates the almost certain capability for assured information reuse, topic-level authoring, and content management. Therefore, it makes sense to to initially select a DTD/schema whose design facilitates future possibilities. == Dan Emory Associates FrameMaker/FrameMaker+SGML Document Design Database Publishing [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
Fred said: But the point remains that the best way to prepare depends greatly on what your goals and objectives are. ... and went on to make several other excellent points. John said: I think the single biggest obstacle to my adoption of Structured FrameMaker has been exactly this sort of discussion. I have searched and searched and failed to find a straightforward high-level doc that tells me what the project is based on my business needs. That's because structure is a toolbox, not a product. If it was a product it would be fair to ask how do I use it?, but it's not fair to decry a toolbox because it has no manual describing what it can fix. If you don't understand what you're trying to fix, then get a mechanic. (Okay, I've worn out the metaphor.) I recommend that people get a consultant for this stuff not only because I'm occasionally a consultant, but because in 15 years of SGML and XML projects, I've seen endless heartbreaking failures. All I need is an article that introduces the various concepts and tells me which structure concepts belong in my project and which I can safely ignore for now: In order to establish which concepts belong in your project, you need first to evaluate the requirements and capabilities of your organisation, for example: o the capability of current staff, as well as the will to replace them if required, o the long-term requirements for data handling and use, o migration strategies from current systems, o ROI, o evaluation of emerging technical directions in data management, These are corporate decisions - once you get them sorted out, you could start looking at which concepts belong in your project, but as I'm sure you'd appreciate, the value of the advice is diluting quickly based on the corporate uncertainty. Structured authoring can do many things. Here are some case studies. Alice needs A; here is an effective solution for A, using DITA. If it was that easy to decide on a strategy, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. The reason that these articles don't exist is that anyone with sufficient experience to write one knows that it would be irresponsible to do so. It would mislead people. Here's a real-world case study: The Australian DoD was in the market for some new helicopters. They settled on the Tiger from Eurocopter. One attraction was that the documentation would be delivered in S1000D format - a standard for SGML/XML data that the Australians are also very keen on. Perfect fit, right? Pretty much, except that there were a couple of discrepancies in the data. S1000D provides for modules to be nested at various depths. The Aussies settled on two depths but the portion of the data that came from France was nested to three levels, requiring transformation to try to shoe-horn into two levels. Oh yeah, after they translated all of the text out of French. Yep, they forgot to agree on the language that it would be delivered in. Saying that Dennis used DITA and Doris used DocBook is about as useful as saying that today it's sunny in both Honalulu and Antarctica. It's the details that kill you. Marcus ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
John wrote: But all I get are: * Offerings from vendors claiming to be THE answer for all my needs even when they don't know what my needs may be. Yes, that fits the profile of a vendor all right. * Endless extensive discussions from knowledgeable folk who tell me all the grand glory of structure, but no answers at all. Hmmm, sounds like a worldwide conspiracy to keep knowledge from the person on the street. I feel a bit hurt - those damned knowledgeable folk never include me in their evil plots... :-) Marcus ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
Milan Davidovic wrote: > I'm looking for resources or advice on how to start > working in unstructured Frame in anticipation of a > move to Structured Frame. > > Let's imagine you're working in unstructured Frame, > and that present circumstances prevent you from making > the switch to Structured Frame. However, those > circumstances could be quickly lifted; if so, you'd > have a brief window to move to Structured Frame and > get it working. Why do you want to go to structured data? Is it because you believe that you can document more efficiently, or because your organisation has requirements to use the data in ways not currently possible? If it's the former and you're judicious about using styles and maintaining consistency, you shouldn't have too many problems. All the same, check with any other potential users of the data within your organisation to ensure that you'll be able to satisfy their structural requirements, or at least make sure that you're not doing anything against their possible requirements. If it's the latter, then start hassling the IT department for their DTD or schema, for without it, you can't do anything. You might take a punt on what the structure will look like, but you'll almost certainly end up reworking your data later after heated debate about the merits of both approaches, driven mainly by neither side wishing to modify their own work. It is often overlooked on this list for obvious reasons, but the primary purposes of structured data usually has precious little to do with the creation of printed pages. Basing a strategy for structured data on an existing FrameMaker application is often a case of the tail wagging the dog. -- Regards, Marcus Carr email: mcarr at allette.com.au ___ Allette Systems (Australia) www:http://www.allette.com.au ___ "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Einstein
anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
--- Marcus Carr wrote: > Why do you want to go to structured data? Good question (and good thoughts on the question), but that's a different topic. For the purposes of this topic, let's imagine that the reasons are sound. And in case I forget to mention it later, thanks for all your answers. Milan http://altmilan.blogspot.com http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
But the point remains that the best way to prepare depends greatly on what your goals and objectives are. Just as one example, if you are not planning to adopt topic-oriented authoring and topic-level reuse, then spending time learning about DITA would be a digression rather than progress toward whatever your real objective is. There are many different things that can be accomplished by the implementation and use of structure, and it is not necessary to know a lot about the techniques and workflows that don't relate to your specific business need. My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel. Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com) Intel Parsippany, NJ -Original Message- From: framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel.com at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Milan Davidovic Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:09 AM To: Frame Users Subject: Re: anticipating a move to Structrued Frame --- Marcus Carr wrote: > Why do you want to go to structured data? Good question (and good thoughts on the question), but that's a different topic. For the purposes of this topic, let's imagine that the reasons are sound. And in case I forget to mention it later, thanks for all your answers. Milan http://altmilan.blogspot.com http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758
anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
--- "Ridder, Fred" wrote: > But the point remains that the best way to prepare > depends greatly on what your goals and objectives > are. Would it be possible to discuss "good" ways rather than "best" ones and keep it all at a fairly high level? Or perhaps everything at the high level has already been said and we can move on. Thanks... PS. "Structrued"... I just saw that: ack! Milan http://altmilan.blogspot.com http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
One reason many of us are strong supporters of "best practices" is that it not only gets users working faster, but provides a better introduction to the complete theory of how to use a tool. --- Milan Davidovic wrote: > Would it be possible to discuss "good" ways rather > than "best" ones and keep it all at a fairly high > level? Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
Fred said: But the point remains that the best way to prepare depends greatly on what your goals and objectives are. Just as one example, if you are not planning to adopt topic-oriented authoring and topic-level reuse, then spending time learning about DITA would be a digression rather than progress toward whatever your real objective is. There are many different things that can be accomplished by the implementation and use of structure, and it is not necessary to know a lot about the techniques and workflows that don't relate to your specific business need. ** I think the single biggest obstacle to my adoption of Structured FrameMaker has been exactly this sort of discussion. I have searched and searched and failed to find a straightforward high-level doc that tells me what the project is based on my business needs. It would make a fabulous Intercom article for STC members. In truth, it is up to Adobe, which has failed egregiously by producing a product and failing to market it (but there is no need to flog that dead horse again). All I need is an article that introduces the various concepts and tells me which structure concepts belong in my project and which I can safely ignore for now: Structured authoring can do many things. Here are some case studies. Alice needs A; here is an effective solution for A, using DITA. Ben needs B; here is an effective solution for B, using DocBook. Charlie needs C; here is an effective solution for C, using a modified DITA with this special XSLT. Anna B. Carruthers need D; here is an effective solution for D,
anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
I agree - I do not need to know THE answer; I need to know AN answer that will do the trick. But all I get are: * Offerings from vendors claiming to be THE answer for all my needs even when they don't know what my needs may be. * Endless extensive discussions from knowledgeable folk who tell me all the grand glory of structure, but no answers at all. From: framers-bounces+jsgammato=imprivata@lists.frameusers.com on behalf of Chris Borokowski Sent: Fri 3/16/2007 10:47 AM To: Frame Users Subject: RE: anticipating a move to Structrued Frame One reason many of us are strong supporters of "best practices" is that it not only gets users working faster, but provides a better introduction to the complete theory of how to use a tool. --- Milan Davidovic wrote: > Would it be possible to discuss "good" ways rather > than "best" ones and keep it all at a fairly high > level? Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as jsgammato at imprivata.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jsgammato%40imprivata.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
--- John Sgammato wrote: > But the point remains that the best way to prepare > depends greatly on what your goals and objectives > are. Just as one example, if you are not planning to > adopt topic-oriented authoring and topic-level > reuse, then spending time learning about DITA would > be a digression rather than progress toward whatever > your real objective is. > > There are many different things that can be > accomplished by the implementation and use of > structure, and it is not necessary to know a lot > about the techniques and workflows that don't relate > to your specific business need. == The trouble is "business needs tend to change. Information reuse, topic-level authoring, content management systems, the capability to deliver to a user exactly what the user needs to perform a particular task, and the addition of metadata (attributes) to further facilitate infomation management have enormous potential, and some or all of these reatures are likely to become future requirements in your companies busines model. Unstructured docs do not fit well in those future models for many reasons, and conversion of unstructured docs to structured ones is usually an onerous and unsatisfactory process. So, it makes sense to initially select (or develop)adopt a DTD/schema which is adaptable to likely (or even possible) future business requirements. Otherwise, down the line, you are likely to face an embarassing fiasco. Although there are many advantages to structure, the most compelling reason to move in that direction is that it anticipates the almost certain capability for assured information reuse, topic-level authoring, and content management. Therefore, it makes sense to to initially select a DTD/schema whose design facilitates future possibilities. == Dan Emory & Associates FrameMaker/FrameMaker+SGML Document Design & Database Publishing
anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
I'm looking for resources or advice on how to start working in unstructured Frame in anticipation of a move to Structured Frame. Let's imagine you're working in unstructured Frame, and that present circumstances prevent you from making the switch to Structured Frame. However, those circumstances could be quickly lifted; if so, you'd have a brief window to move to Structured Frame and get it working. How would you start working in unstructured Frame to get ready? Thanks in advance... Milan http://altmilan.blogspot.com http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
This is how I've done it: 1. Learn topic-based authoring, for example by taking some classes in structured writing or Information Mapping (IMAP). 2. Design Frame templates that support topic-based authoring. 3. Learn XML, at least XML for authors (not XML for developers). 4. Learn DITA and download and install the DITA Application Pack for FrameMaker 7.2. 5. Write a paradigm shift guide (which is what I'm doing now): you'll have to start thinking in terms of elements and attributes, not styles (or paragraph tags). The idea of my paradigm shift guide is to list and describe all the components (paragraph tags, variables, condition tags, table tags etc.) in my unstructured FrameMaker template and relate them to their respective DITA counterparts (if possible). For example, my template has the styles cellheading and cellbody for text in tables. In DITA, you just have the element stentry for this purpose. The formatting (style) of the element stentry depends on its position: in body cells, it will use the style table.cell.body; in heading cells, it will use table.cell.head.left. Another example: my unstructured template has the character tag control, which I used in software manuals to refer to text of user controls, such as menu commands, dialog box titles, button names etc. And, lo and behold, DITA has the element uicontrol for this purpose. So I changed the name of the character tag control to uicontrol in my unstructured Frame template. People who use my unstructured Frame template are already familiar with uicontrol and they immediately understand the meaning and usage of the DITA uicontrol element. Hope this helps a bit. Good luck -- Yves Barbion Documentation Architect Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
--- Milan Davidovic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for resources or advice on how to start working in unstructured Frame in anticipation of a move to Structured Frame. 1. In your unstructured template, create paragraph, character, table, marker and cross-reference tags whose names correspond to the releated element names in the DTD/EDD you intend to use when you switch to structured. 2. Adhere rigorously to the correct application of these tags during creation of unstructured docs. This methodology will assure that conversion of unstructured docs to structured ones will be a slam dunk. === ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
Milan Davidovic wrote: I'm looking for resources or advice on how to start working in unstructured Frame in anticipation of a move to Structured Frame. Let's imagine you're working in unstructured Frame, and that present circumstances prevent you from making the switch to Structured Frame. However, those circumstances could be quickly lifted; if so, you'd have a brief window to move to Structured Frame and get it working. Why do you want to go to structured data? Is it because you believe that you can document more efficiently, or because your organisation has requirements to use the data in ways not currently possible? If it's the former and you're judicious about using styles and maintaining consistency, you shouldn't have too many problems. All the same, check with any other potential users of the data within your organisation to ensure that you'll be able to satisfy their structural requirements, or at least make sure that you're not doing anything against their possible requirements. If it's the latter, then start hassling the IT department for their DTD or schema, for without it, you can't do anything. You might take a punt on what the structure will look like, but you'll almost certainly end up reworking your data later after heated debate about the merits of both approaches, driven mainly by neither side wishing to modify their own work. It is often overlooked on this list for obvious reasons, but the primary purposes of structured data usually has precious little to do with the creation of printed pages. Basing a strategy for structured data on an existing FrameMaker application is often a case of the tail wagging the dog. -- Regards, Marcus Carr email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Allette Systems (Australia) www:http://www.allette.com.au ___ Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. - Einstein ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
I'm looking for resources or advice on how to start working in unstructured Frame in anticipation of a move to Structured Frame. Let's imagine you're working in unstructured Frame, and that present circumstances prevent you from making the switch to Structured Frame. However, those circumstances could be quickly lifted; if so, you'd have a brief window to move to Structured Frame and get it working. How would you start working in unstructured Frame to get ready? Thanks in advance... Milan http://altmilan.blogspot.com http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
This is how I've done it: 1. Learn topic-based authoring, for example by taking some classes in structured writing or Information Mapping (IMAP). 2. Design Frame templates that support topic-based authoring. 3. Learn XML, at least XML for authors (not XML for developers). 4. Learn DITA and download and install the DITA Application Pack for FrameMaker 7.2. 5. Write a "paradigm shift guide" (which is what I'm doing now): you'll have to start thinking in terms of elements and attributes, not styles (or paragraph tags). The idea of my paradigm shift guide is to list and describe all the "components" (paragraph tags, variables, condition tags, table tags etc.) in my unstructured FrameMaker template and relate them to their respective DITA counterparts (if possible). For example, my template has the styles "cellheading" and "cellbody" for text in tables. In DITA, you just have the element for this purpose. The formatting (style) of the element depends on its position: in body cells, it will use the style "table.cell.body"; in heading cells, it will use " table.cell.head.left". Another example: my unstructured template has the character tag "control", which I used in software manuals to refer to text of "user controls", such as menu commands, dialog box titles, button names etc. And, lo and behold, DITA has the element for this purpose. So I changed the name of the character tag "control" to "uicontrol" in my unstructured Frame template. People who use my unstructured Frame template are already familiar with "uicontrol" and they immediately understand the meaning and usage of the DITA element. Hope this helps a bit. Good luck -- Yves Barbion Documentation Architect Adobe-Certified FrameMaker Instructor
anticipating a move to Structrued Frame
--- Milan Davidovic wrote: > I'm looking for resources or advice on how to start > working in unstructured Frame in anticipation of a > move to Structured Frame. 1. In your unstructured template, create paragraph, character, table, marker and cross-reference tags whose names correspond to the releated element names in the DTD/EDD you intend to use when you switch to structured. 2. Adhere rigorously to the correct application of these tags during creation of unstructured docs. This methodology will assure that conversion of unstructured docs to structured ones will be a slam dunk. ===
