Re: A giggle from the Adobe website

2014-10-28 Thread Robert Lauriston 
I think FrameMaker's docs are the least bad of all the authoring tools
I've used or evaluated.

Their biggest weakness is often complete lack of coverage of
higher-level tasks. E.g. there are no templates in the usual sense, so
how do you work around that? The sample files they've provided not
only don't embody best practices, they were apparently created by
people who didn't understand many of the (properly documented)
fundamentals.

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Sharp, Amy
 wrote:
>>  My personal feeling is that documentation from Adobe has declined, and is 
>> threatening to approach the Microsoft level.
>
> I think Microsoft has a leg up on Adobe docs, albeit a skinny leg. Even 
> before Adobe bought the company, FM docs were, shall we say, less than 
> robust. They remind me of open-source philosophy where developers wait for a 
> user to document that an icon means means "crash and burn," not "save this 
> file."
>
> If not for Sarah O'Keefe and Scriptorium, FrameMaker would have been 
> abandoned a decade ago. Just saying.
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Re: A giggle from the Adobe website

2014-10-28 Thread Sharp, Amy 
>  My personal feeling is that documentation from Adobe has declined, and is 
> threatening to approach the Microsoft level.

I think Microsoft has a leg up on Adobe docs, albeit a skinny leg. Even before 
Adobe bought the company, FM docs were, shall we say, less than robust. They 
remind me of open-source philosophy where developers wait for a user to 
document that an icon means means "crash and burn," not "save this file."

If not for Sarah O'Keefe and Scriptorium, FrameMaker would have been abandoned 
a decade ago. Just saying.


Amy Sharp
Geophysical Technical Writer
ConocoPhillips Co.
MO1050
Work: 281-293-1819
Mobile: 713-724-8485
amy.sh...@cop.com

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RE: A giggle from the Adobe website

2014-10-28 Thread Craig Ede 
I'd have to say I agree with Ed here, rather than Scott.
Craig Ede


> Subject: Re: A giggle from the Adobe website 
> From: qui...@airmail.net 
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 10:51:10 -0500 
> To: enodl...@gmail.com 
> CC: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
>  
> My personal feeling is that documentation from Adobe has declined, and  
> is threatening to approach the Microsoft level. 
>  
>  
> On Oct 28, 2014, at 10:09, Ed Nodland  
> mailto:enodl...@gmail.com>> wrote: 
>  
> I get it now.  All this time they thought I was not using Framemaker.   
> From wiki: "An end user of a computer  
> system<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_user_of_a_computer_system> or  
> software is someone who uses it." 
>  
> I will let them know I am an end-user.  That could explain why we get  
> answers that are high-level, vague, or sound like short sound bites.  I  
> was checking IT manager. 
>  
> I'll add that the program, documentation, and support is much better  
> than it was in 2007 - 2010 and the support community is amazing. 
>  
> Ed 
>
  
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Re: A giggle from the Adobe website

2014-10-28 Thread Scott Turner 
My personal feeling is that documentation from Adobe has declined, and is 
threatening to approach the Microsoft level.


> On Oct 28, 2014, at 10:09, Ed Nodland  wrote:
> 
> I get it now.  All this time they thought I was not using Framemaker.  From 
> wiki: "An end user of a computer system or software is someone who uses it." 
> 
> I will let them know I am an end-user.  That could explain why we get answers 
> that are high-level, vague, or sound like short sound bites.  I was checking 
> IT manager.
> 
> I'll add that the program, documentation, and support is much better than it 
> was in 2007 - 2010 and the support community is amazing.
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Helen Borrie  wrote:
>> Pat Christenson wrote:
>> 
>> I was visiting Adobe's website earlier and noticed that when you sign up, 
>> you have to make a choice from the list of Job Titles. One of the choices is 
>> End User.
>> 
>> Really? That's a job title? ;-)
>> 
>> At 07:19 a.m. 28/10/2014, Writer wrote:
>> 
>> >It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it.
>> >
>> >I hear the pay sucks, too.
>> 
>> And don't we *always* get the blame when something goes pear-shaped?
>> 
>> Helen
>> 
>> ___
>> 
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Re: A giggle from the Adobe website

2014-10-28 Thread Ed Nodland 
I get it now.  All this time they thought I was not using Framemaker.  From
wiki: "An end user of a computer system
 or software is
someone who uses it."

I will let them know I am an end-user.  That could explain why we get
answers that are high-level, vague, or sound like short sound bites.  I was
checking IT manager.

I'll add that the program, documentation, and support is much better than
it was in 2007 - 2010 and the support community is amazing.

Ed


On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Helen Borrie  wrote:

> Pat Christenson wrote:
>
> I was visiting Adobe's website earlier and noticed that when you sign up,
> you have to make a choice from the list of Job Titles. One of the choices
> is End User.
>
> Really? That's a job title? ;-)
>
> At 07:19 a.m. 28/10/2014, Writer wrote:
>
> >It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it.
> >
> >I hear the pay sucks, too.
>
> And don't we *always* get the blame when something goes pear-shaped?
>
> Helen
>
> ___
>
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>
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Re: pear shaped RE: A giggle from the Adobe website

2014-10-28 Thread Lin Sims 
Too late!

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Craig Ede  wrote:

> I thought it was the fear of all technical writers that over the years
> working at a desk we all will go pear shaped. (Heads up! This is not an
> irrational fear!)
>
> C-
>
>
>
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RE: A giggle from the Adobe website

2014-10-28 Thread Craig Ede 
Given the amount of noise on this list about how the interface to FM is
inadequate, I would think there would be a raft of end-users out there
willing to sign on for this.

Craig
BTW: I am quite happy to be working in FM12. It's not perfect, but better
than any of the previous versions I've used (and I signed on with FrameMaker
3.0)

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pear shaped RE: A giggle from the Adobe website

2014-10-28 Thread Craig Ede 
I thought it was the fear of all technical writers that over the years
working at a desk we all will go pear shaped. (Heads up! This is not an
irrational fear!)

C-

 

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Re: A giggle from the Adobe website

2014-10-27 Thread Writer 

>If I confess to be a FrameMaker end user, what else might be inferred about me?

/Peter

That you use FrameMaker ends?

I mean...come on...it's not like orking cows, eh?


Nadine

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Re: A giggle from the Adobe website

2014-10-27 Thread Writer 
To quote Joss Whedon, "I have a theory..."

Actually, it's Wikipedia's theory, not mine: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pear-shaped

Nadine




 From: Lin Sims 
To: Helen Borrie  
Cc: Frame Users  
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: A giggle from the Adobe website
 


Why do things go pear-shaped? Why not rhombus-shaped, or even 
watermelon-shaped? Or artichoke--then you get an odd shaped that's all prickly, 
too.



On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Helen Borrie  wrote:

Pat Christenson wrote:
>
>I was visiting Adobe's website earlier and noticed that when you sign up, you 
>have to make a choice from the list of Job Titles. One of the choices is End 
>User.
>
>Really? That's a job title? ;-)
>
>At 07:19 a.m. 28/10/2014, Writer wrote:
>
>>It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it.
>>
>>I hear the pay sucks, too.
>
>And don't we *always* get the blame when something goes pear-shaped?
>
>Helen
>
>___
>
>
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Re: A giggle from the Adobe website

2014-10-27 Thread Lin Sims 
Why do things go pear-shaped? Why not rhombus-shaped, or even
watermelon-shaped? Or artichoke--then you get an odd shaped that's all
prickly, too.

On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Helen Borrie  wrote:

> Pat Christenson wrote:
>
> I was visiting Adobe's website earlier and noticed that when you sign up,
> you have to make a choice from the list of Job Titles. One of the choices
> is End User.
>
> Really? That's a job title? ;-)
>
> At 07:19 a.m. 28/10/2014, Writer wrote:
>
> >It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it.
> >
> >I hear the pay sucks, too.
>
> And don't we *always* get the blame when something goes pear-shaped?
>
> Helen
>
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as ljsims...@gmail.com.
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> Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.
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> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>



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Re: A giggle from the Adobe website

2014-10-27 Thread Helen Borrie 
Pat Christenson wrote:

I was visiting Adobe's website earlier and noticed that when you sign up, you 
have to make a choice from the list of Job Titles. One of the choices is End 
User.
 
Really? That's a job title? ;-)

At 07:19 a.m. 28/10/2014, Writer wrote:

>It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it.
>
>I hear the pay sucks, too.

And don't we *always* get the blame when something goes pear-shaped?

Helen

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Re: A giggle from the Adobe website

2014-10-27 Thread Writer 
It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it.

I hear the pay sucks, too.

Nadine




 From: "Christenson, Pat" 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com"  
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 2:09 PM
Subject: A giggle from the Adobe website
 


 
I was visiting Adobe’s website earlier and noticed that when you sign up, you 
have to make a choice from the list of Job Titles. One of the choices is End 
User.
 
Really? That’s a job title? ;-)
 
Pat Christenson
Resource Coordinator
Fitzgerald Marketing and Communications
pchristen...@ftportfolios.com
 
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A giggle from the Adobe website

2014-10-27 Thread Christenson, Pat 
I was visiting Adobe's website earlier and noticed that when you sign up, you 
have to make a choice from the list of Job Titles. One of the choices is End 
User.

Really? That's a job title? ;-)

Pat Christenson
Resource Coordinator
Fitzgerald Marketing and Communications
pchristen...@ftportfolios.com

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